@goldPseudo I stated that all of reference part was taken from a source and I gave the link for source. However I will try to find a more direct source. By the way, does an academical paper direct enough?

@goldPseudo I copied that edit part to give reference clearly. Again, I am asking, if I find a paper which is written by a professor or associate professor, would it count? Or do I have to find each mentioned hadith one by one?

hey @kalahari we don't know exactly if that research or study about her age was approved by all other scholars, i.e. whether it is a standard one or not.... that too, it doesn't mean "Islam doesn't support child marriages"...

@Wiser How can we check this? I don't know if there is any authority checking for all countries's studies.

so what do you means @kalahari, Muslims should not marry early? wait till a girl get's 15 or 16 or more, then why do muslims suggest, marry early to avoid sin.???????? (leave about pregnancies..)

@Wiser What is early? The human youth is between 15-16 to 35-40 I think. Especially men in 20s suffer from sexual desire and that may leads them to zina. And human sexual desire decreases with age. In 50s, it is not big deal whether or not you are married in sexual context. But in 20s, it is a big deal. This doesn't mean marrying in 10. Maybe 10 is late? Can you prove 10 is not late? Maybe we should marry in 3? As I said, this advice is for teenagers and youth to avoid from zina.

especially men in their 15s suffer from sexual desires, men don't wait till 20... that too with a too bad influence from the growing western environment..... @kalahari

@Wiser Yes, but sexual desire is not the only component. A marriage can survive with minds mature enough to run a home economy, minds mature enough to tolerate their spouse's wrong actions and to develop solutions instead of increasing the problems. A marriage means responsibilities for both husband and wife, 15s ages usually don't fit with these. There must be also will and desire of both sides for proper marriage, marrying because of force by someone won't be a marriage and cause zina and many more problems. The participants of marriage can be able to reject something against their will.

Do you have anything to say about qdinar's answer... I've got a bit confused, and I think he's right too.. :)

@servantofWiser, As I said, marriage brings lots of responsibility. How can a childish girl take these? Also marriage is an agreement, it requires both sides consciousness's mature enough to understand and accept it. Even salat is not mandatory for child, how can she is expected to understand what marriage brings. I know lots of examples of marriage between such spouses. Some of them are nearly relatives of mine. In all of them, woman was afraid of her husband just because his harsh and big looking. Is it look like a lovely and proper marriage?

@servantofWiser, In most of the cases like that (all of them I know), the child has no right to argue and her father decides who and when to marry. Is it really a marriage? What consequences do you think it will bring? In all cases I know (and I know a lot of them), woman hates and be disgusted her husband, but feared also, always unhappy. Some of them wants to go to school, some of them missing to play with her friends, always childish thoughts and a life with suffering and fear. Even when the husband is very nice man, this only destroys the fear part and others remain.

@servantofWiser, Why can't we let our daughters live their childhood? Why can't we educate them, guide them and give the decisions affecting their whole lives to them? About the hadits, I don't trust much of them. The Prophet(puh) mostly married with widows. Why should he advice otherwise? Also is a wife someone play with her (a child), or a life companion? Furthermore, I think taking someone as wife while she is young with thinking she will take care of her husband when he gets old is a very selfish thought.

@servantofWiser, Everyone thinks that a young girl is more beautiful then a woman in 40s, probably gave birth, took some weight in that process etc. Everyone wants and chooses the young one. But the question is, does she want you? In the 40s maybe 50s, looking like her father, behave her like a child rather then a wife etc Maybe you have children from your before marriage, they are probably near her age. In most cases, when such couple had a fight, the husband suspects of a relationship between his wife and his children. Sometimes it would be real.

@servantofWiser, Such husbands always want to keep his young, beautiful wife in front of his eyes, making this world a hell for his wife. They mostly think that they are not enough for their wife, because of that the wife looks for somebody younger. This thought, whether true or not, always starts violence inside family, sometimes go to a murder.

Fine Fine Fine. But are you sure about the sources, research which you provided. And more over even if a girl marries young, she can still play with her friends, go to school, decide for her career, avoid Fitna, and still be happy with her husband(if he is good) there is nothing wrong.

I understand your feelings, because most of men who marry young girls, mostly end up abusing them, but what if husband is good, imagine that case.

@servantofWiser, Which sources? About other issue, one of my elementary school friends married while I am in high school. She gave birth next year. I talked with another friend about her. She reported to me that she said her husband is a very nice man, but this doesn't enough. She was 15-16 when married, not 9. And that was the only case I see or heard in my life not including abuse. A marriage needs love. Only a mature marriage can be maintained without love. A childish girl doesn't think about marriage, her father thinks about it, her father chooses the proper husband.

before that, I want to ask a question. How can you open this chat? I don't know where to click :)

sources which you used for reference. Are you sure that research is accurate

The link I gave in the answer? I am not so sure about it, I actually tried to reach them separately and in English forms because I don't know Arabic or Urdu. But I couldn't reach. They are mostly looks like printed books.

But, I listened lots of Profs. According to them, and they were using the same hadiths, the link I gave looks appropriate. I am a Turk and in Turkey there is a department called Presidency of Religious Affairs. These profs are graduated from faculties of theology, then academically continued to become profs and they are mostly belong to the Presidency of Religious Affairs. It seems to the conclusion I gave to you is the common conclusion of this department.

If I remember right, this claim (year between 17-20) is first announced by some Arab or Persian scholar in 1930s. Then a scholar from Turkey read it, and made research about it in 1970s or 80s.

He is greeted with huge resistance in Turkey back then. In order to prove he is wrong or to support him, lots of dr.s or associate profs made the same research

The conclusion is, today it is accepted by Turkish Scholars that the age was't 9.

Because this issue is one of the biggest weapon for atheists, this question is asked nearly every TV program including a scholar, or in every religious sites. I listened from at least 5 of serious, respected scholars in Turkey that it is not 9

There are some sects in Turkey that accept this age issue as 9. But all of them, seriously all of them are ignorant about some other topics even I certainly know. So, rather than them, I choose to trust the academical ones.

Once I read a thesis paper on this issue, it was very long believe me, and it was concluding the same result. unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name.

Recently, I saw another paper written by Ayman Bin Khalid claiming that the year was actually 9. Its 38 pages old and english, rejecting all the supporting point I rely on,

I haven't read it yet, and I don't know when to read, but when I read it, if I change my mind, I will ask a professor from Presidency of R.A. about it. Then, if I change my current belief, I will write on this question and change my answer.

By the way, how can I open a chat like this with someone? I seriously don't know where to click

you can do that if the discussion goes on very long in the comments. There will be an option for that when it gets long enough. until then, you can continue in the existent ones. :)

Does a button appear somewhere in that case? Cause I can't see it

or it automatic? Is "Let us continue this discussion in chat" sentence automatic?

yeah

how is turkey? Is it a nice place or lot of terrorists?

@kalahari

hmm probably not what you may think :D

Turkey mainly has 2 nations Turks and Kurds

Oh! Did you visit Hadia Sophia?

how is that ?

sorry Hagia

in a long time Turkey refused to accept Kurd identity and some of them become marxist terrorists in 1980s. Nowadays the state is trying to make peace with them. But it was more regional. There are some religious radicals in Turkey but not like Iraq or Afganistan

yes it is beautiful Hagia Sophia

have you been there?

once

it has interesting green marble statues

Blue mosque?

Sultan Ahmed Mosque

yes they are nearby and I went there too

where are you from?

Now! I think you've a daughter of your own. So, by looking at the experiences which you've faced, you kinda highly support No child Marriage. I understand.

But not atleast, 9, but 14 or 15 can be right age for marriage along with considering the will of the girl

No pregnancies of course at such age.

It is to avoid Fitna. I hope you understand

I am not married yet :) by the way I am just watching a video related to it and learned some interesting information

quran.com/4

take a look at there

If @qdinar was present here in the discussion it would be better. So lets wait for him too...

quran.com/4/6

there is something here called marriageable age

thats for sure cancels the "even 3" argument

OK.

@goldPseudo how r u man?

also there is something called mehir, some money a husband gives to wife at marriage

OK

@kalahari Do you mean "How do I get into chat at all without being invited?" or just "How do I create a room between two users?"

to create a private room you need to get 1000 rep

I guess

can you give me answers for both please?

well, to get to the chat itself, just go to chat.stackexchange.com

you can join any of them then

or there's a direct link in the pulldown menu at the top left of the main Islam Stack Exchange page.

hmm I was asking for this kind of chat we are in now

creating a new room for you and another user, you can just open that user's profile in chat; there'll be an option for "Start a new room with this user"

no different than using the "Create a new room" from the main chat.stackexchange.com, except that i think it'll automatically send an invite to the person you want to create a room with.

only need 100 rep to create a room, so you're good.

ok I found it thank you

the 1000 rep level is to create gallery rooms, which are the same as a regular room except you can control who is and is not allowed to talk in it.

Jazakallah khair

@servantofWiser, where were you again?

where are you from I mean

not interested in disclosing that man

all rooms are publicly readable though. only diamond moderators are allowed to create private rooms, and that's typically only for important moderator things that need to stay private.

ooooooooooo

Why? are you from Iraq or Afganistan? Did I offended you?

hahahha no

simply

by the way I am not resisting 15-16 age if she is mature enough.

just resisting every kind of force

Hmm OK.

Maybe Prophet(pbuh)'s case was exceptional of marrying her when she was 9

because he might wanted her to address more number of people with her knowledge. So, he married such a young girl.

But yeah 13 to 16 age is fine enough I guess

if he would have married with a 20 years old, why can't she address more number?

there are more reasons of this marriage such as uniting the tribes etc

he married with women from different tribes, built relationships to stop blood vengeance

his companions also did the same thing to strengthen the bonds if I am not wrong

those cases are different. Ayesha was already in a united tribe. i.e. she was daughter of Abu bakr ryt?

but really how can a 9 years old girl choose to marry on her own?

Actually I don't know which tribe Abu Bakr belong to

Sorry i've to go bye

he was kureys I googled

ok by