The Whiteboard - 2015-11-20 (page 1 of 4)

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12:00 AM

0

A: Can a business application be developed / enhanced with more than one language?

All .net framework permit to merge different language when kits seperate in differente module… depending which librairie you include in the framework (.net framework) fuji 🗻 some third part product (language) permit to do this… using good configuration.

how did someone who asked the question that was asked there get value out of that answer?

user55340

If you don't know anything, everything has value. It may be wrong, but you don't know that yet.

user55340

Hi Michael. Apologies, I have just taken a tour of the "help centre" and got an better idea about what you were referring to... Happy for this question to be removed. Thanks — Emanuel 2 mins ago

user55340

Stack exchange is a very different place than other sites and can take some getting used to. You are asking interesting questions, that would be interesting to discuss in chat (though you will need to get 20 reputation somewhere on the network for that - see How do you get 20 rep to get into chat?). For this question, there is a delete link on the left hand side under the tags. — MichaelT 55 secs ago

user55340

One of those wish we could get people to read before asking.

user55340

@Ixrec while not the ideal format, c2 holds many of those interesting holy wars from 10-20 years ago frozen in Amber.

user55340

12:12 AM

Following the patterns and anti patterns there can be as bad as tvtropes.

user55340

12:58 AM

My cat really does not understand the integrated CD tray on my computer.

1:40 AM

@enderland (yet another blatant example) Excuse me, but are you really a native English speaker? 'Cuz many of your phrases look grammatically broken and plain bizarre to me! (I've never seen anything like this with my ~20 years of exposure to English of all sorts. And I'm taking pride in my level of English that highly exceeds that of most of my peers here.) — ivan_pozdeev 2 days ago

1:52 AM

Heh.

Meesa no liek you englasssh

2:06 AM

:)

just setup my new monitor; yeesh

It's like being punched in the face with color.

Altogether looks super sharp though... just need to tune the bright the fuck down... also need to go format a new cheap/slow 1tb storage drive I grabbed

One more vote to close: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/303066

@RobertHarvey pew pew

0

Q: What are your 3 best pieces of lifetime career advice for young coders?

Here are mine: Try never to get too caught up in the race on the treadmill for the technological "flavor of the day". It will be out-of-fashion before you know it. Focus on doing things well, even if they're older technologies. It's better to have solid fundamental skills than to have dabble...

self-improvement

sigh. blame caching :(

@Ampt ...this monitor has a hardware crosshair I can turn on from the menus...

7. Refrain from answering off-topic questions. — Robert Harvey 8 secs ago

2:17 AM

@RobertHarvey what size did you set? You have to use 12 to be similar to consolas 10

terminus 10pt is unreadable, and about 25% smaller than consolas 10

@RobertHarvey wow that got deleted

I fit 109 lines on my screen with consolas 10, with terminus 10 it was 135, and terminus 12 is 103

20

Q: How do I approach a complicated merge

Here is the deal, I have joined a new company and have been asked to finish off the work on a branch which hasn't been touched for almost a year. In the meanwhile, the master branch has been growing with a steady pace. Ideally I would like to merge all of the changes from the master branch into t...

version-control git gitflow

^--- Slowly, and from the side, so as not to spook it. A scared merge, is a dangerous merge. Remember never to corner a merge, and refrain from using bright lights or making loud noises.

0

Q: how this code executes ?? it;s working good but i don't know how execution take place

void interrupt() { if((PORTB&(0b00000111))!= 0b00000111) { delay_ms(10); if((PORTB&(0b00000111))!= 0b00000111) { PORTB=(0b11100000 | (PORTB & 0b00001111)); if(!((PORTB.RB0)&&(PORTB.RB1)&&(PORTB.RB2))) { if(((PORTB...

@RobertHarvey that new close reason is so useful

It is.

2:31 AM

...crap. Now how do I turn off this crosshair

bew bew bew... I'm shooting the whiteboard with my monitor crosshair...bew...go away stupid thing

here are some targets: o O o O 0 o

my monitor has a joystick... so I've aimed the crosshair at your targets but it's not doing anything... this game sucks. Whiteboard monitor crosshair is booooringg

2:56 AM

now to move half my steam library to the slow terrabyte drive I just picked up..which is hopefully not an utter piece of junk that's going to fall to bits in 10 minutes...

whatever, steam can replace all of them.

user55340

Digital FTW!

@JimmyHoffa hopefully your internet is faster than ours is then... it would take me a while...

@enderland me as well, but... I mean, how many games would I need to download at once? I can only play one at a time

speaking of, let's see how this g-sync thing with 2560x1440 makes a game look..

considering my previous monitor was only 1440x900, I suspect a marked improvement..

1440x900? really?

i've had a 1080p monitor for probably 6 years

I've never been picky about monitors; I think "cheap" would be the appropriate term.

3:06 AM

it was pricey when I bought it(I think it was $300 when I got it on a black friday sale yeaaars ago)

user55340

A monitor was something I've never skimped on.

I've had 2 24" 1080p monitors at work for like 8 years, but outside of work I never gave too much mind.

user55340

My first one was a 15" in college, that I traded with a friend didn't want to keep moving (college apartments changing every 6 months) who had a 17" monitor (and I chipped in some good bit of beer money too)... those were CRT monstrosities.

My TV is a 40" 1080p thing that's now 7 years old and has burn in spots. Meh. From the distance of the couch it doesn't mind me none. I only got this for the purposes of making working from home more palatable to avoid driving in more.

@JimmyHoffa that would drive me nuts. whenever we finally buy a place I want to have a decent home theater setup, though probably will do a projector

user55340

3:08 AM

Apple ColorSync/AppleVision 750 Display

The Apple ColorSync/AppleVision 750 Display is a 17" (16.1" viewable) Trinitron aperture grille CRT that was manufactured by Apple Inc. from August 5, 1997 until approximately November 10, 1998. The video cable uses a standard Macintosh DA-15 video connector and the maximum resolution is 1280x1024. The display also has an ADB port (not S-video despite the identical plug). Connecting the display via ADB to a Macintosh running MacOS 9 and below allows extensive display adjustment and calibration in software, using the Monitors or Monitors & Sound control panel. As this control panel was never ported...

@MichaelT after numerous moves years ago; I knocked on my neighbors door when I was moving like 5 years ago and gave him a pair of 14" infiniti cabinet speakers just because I was tired of bloody moving them...

user55340

Similar specs: everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/… (48 lbs)

user55340

Had this 19" for a number of years:

user55340

user image

user55340

And later upgraded to a 23" display... and now my 27"

3:12 AM

@enderland I did a projector for years before getting this 40" TV. I like it just fine; my eye sight isn't spectacular so I don't much care. I care more about my real estate for programming than anything - trying to code if I don't have at least 100+ lines visible on the screen for coding + a project navigator in wide mode (like 600px wide) + my log/errors window just as wide + enough extra space for a web browser and application (s) I'm running / testing all on my screen at once I get annoyed

user55340

Yep. Don't skimp on screen space if you're a programmer... you'll use it all and wish you had another monitor.

user55340

Six 4K Screens On A Mac Pro - 50,000,000 Pixels!

user55340

That sort of thing.

@MichaelT yeah, we take too many different things, put them altogether and interact with them at the same time to not be able to see all of the sources and running software at the same time

damn you new hard drive, finish copying, I don't want to run steam and kick off any games while half of them are still copying over

@JimmyHoffa :(

3:19 AM

I have those too

just not those :P

only thing that sucks with this monitor swap out-> My old monitor had built in speakers and I haven't other speakers of any nature..

Perhaps I should have snagged some cheap ones off amazon when I got this. Meh, I only ever use one headphone anyway..

Not sure how I like this resolution; even at 27" stuff is bloody small

I have a $100 pair of bose desktop speakers I've had for almost 10 years now but our main audio is in the living room (next to the desk) so I never really use it

alright, I can totally see myself watching a bit of cine on this thing. I've always seen screen tearing on hulu/flash videos in the past; but no more. and with 27" at this res it looks pretty darn awesome

user55340

Hyperdrive s1e1p1/3

user55340

3:32 AM

You know you want to watch it.

@MichaelT I really do.

that looks pretty hilarious... need to find headphones...

and pour a glass of apple brandy..

user55340

4:00 AM

Btw, could we get the close votes:

user55340

-1

Q: What is this its a file in phone

20151109 06:55:21.623 [D][MessagingYWA] : [Phread:15915]setBucketParameter: bucket is 113 20151109 06:55:21.642 [I][NetworkHelper] : [thread:15920]networkAvailable() - active network type : MOBILE 20151109 06:55:21.942 [W][GCMSubImpl] : [thread:15920]failed to get GCM regID:java.io.IOException: P...

search search-engine

4:13 AM

@MichaelT ok this is fun; it's on Hulu, wife and I agreed it reminds us of IT crowd in space

user55340

@JimmyHoffa screen.yahoo.com/other-space

4:32 AM

@MichaelT yahoo original? intriguing

user55340

@JimmyHoffa there's also Space Janitors which is surprisingly good...

user55340

Space Janitors Have Dreams Too - Space Janitors: Episode One [Official HD Version]

@MichaelT yeah, we watched a bit of that- I rather liked it

2 hours later…

7:01 AM

Maybe this is a question for Programmers SE? — Uwe Keim 29 secs ago

7:45 AM

The question is probably a better fit for programmers.stackexchange.com — reto 42 secs ago

8:11 AM

While this question may be on-topic on StackOverflow (as Jeffery Bosboom pointed out, we're currently discussing that), I think you would get more help at either math.stackexchange.com or cs.stackexchange.com. The question you've posted is a graph theory problem, and unfortunately, not all programmers are well-versed in graph theory, so our ability to help you here is limited. But the experts at our mathematics and computer science communities are much more familiar with graph theory and will be able to answer your question readily. — Kevin just now

What sort of pattern do people use for these sort of classes

0

Q: CRUD strongly typed data access

I have a data access class: using CompanyX.DataAccess.CompanyXTableAdapters; namespace CompanyX.DataAccess { public class CompanyXDataAccess { #region Invoice public CompanyX.InvoiceDataTable GetInvoiceByID(int ID) { InvoiceTableAdapter ta = new Invo...

c# design-patterns sql-server

3 hours later…

Lightness Races in Orbit

10:59 AM

@Mathematics You're asking the wrong question! Whenever you ask "what pattern do you use", you're asking the wrong question!

1 hour later…

12:02 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit what would be the right question then :/

Whenever I look at this code, I feel an urge to improve it, but I don't have the knowledge

I am working with it for 4 years now

12:48 PM

Don't think about patterns. Think about good design practices.

Patterns are things that people noticed tend to emerge. They are a communication tool.

Patterns should not be a design goal

They exist because people do tend to see patterns in things and like to give things names.

1:22 PM

Some of the answers to this question on The Workplace went off the rails. In what world do people think it's right to falsify time cards?

6

Q: How to discuss wage disparity between two jobs

I wanted to ask how I could discuses wage disparity between student positions. I currently work for two professors at my university at different pay-scales. Because of a hard limit of 18 hours a week (university policy) I need to choose how many hours I report to which. For the past two-three pay...

salary negotiation student

Lightness Races in Orbit

the world of Workplace.SE

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I would have thought that on The Workplace, people would be professional. Falsifying a time card is one of the few ways I could get immediately terminated from my job.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens hahahaha have you spent much time on Workplace.SE? "Professional". hahahahaha

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, I have...mostly it's legit.

Lightness Races in Orbit

I think it's easy to assume that because the topic is often "professionality", people there will be professional. But ... well, it's still the internet. It's still Earth.

I generally find Workplace.SE to be highly amusing (mostly in the questions, not the answers)

1:34 PM

I've never seen so much bad advice from multiple people in one question before.

people will be people

Lightness Races in Orbit

Can't speak to that

I think the biggest lols I get from Workplace.SE are the dumbness of the questions.

Better than xkcd :)

ahaha I just went looking for an example of silly questions I've answered on Workplace.SE, and just spotted that one of them was asked by @enderland....

Which one was that?

@ThomasOwens getting hit by a bus for one

@ratchetfreak Speaking of hit by bus.

Lightness Races in Orbit

1:38 PM

^^^ yes that one

certainly not the best example

to be honest I'm half joking as I would not have cited it as an example in this conversation if it weren't for the author ;)

cat drag

We have a new saying at work: "getting hit by the lottery bus". It's supposed to be friendlier and more correct than saying "get hit by the bus" because it doesn't involve a coworker getting seriously injured or killed.

Lightness Races in Orbit

also someone's wiki'd everything on that Q&A at some point :( mod removed it from the question but not the answers. grr

@ThomasOwens problem is lottery means you have a transition plan, even if a few days.... a bus = 0 days ;)

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens o.O

yeah exactly - lottery isn't right

you still have to work your notice period when you quit

1:40 PM

@enderland Really?

Happy Coffee Day

Lightness Races in Orbit

although I suppose you may then have enough cash to break your contract without worrying about financial repercussions. honestly, is this common?

being suddenly killed is really what you are preparing for so why hide from that in PC terminology

If I hit the lottery today, I have enough vacation to not work my notice period. Plus, I don't think I have a notice period.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa hang on, is every day coffee day?

@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's what I say...

1:41 PM

@ThomasOwens if you are in a critical role would you basically tell them "cya i'm out of here not going to give another minute of work" ?

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens good point about the vacation

9

Q: Is every day Coffee Day?

I heard recently that every day is Coffee Day, but then it was pointed out to me that this only happens once a year; can someone please clarify this for me? Is every day Coffee Day?

discussion coffee

Lightness Races in Orbit

but you'd be a bit of a bastard to do that. that comes under the part of bus factor responsibility that falls on management

@enderland In my current job, no. I do like them (the coworkers and the company) enough to not do that.

most (living) people feel some responsibility for their work, and would have some interest in not letting it die completely. A dead person has no such feeling

1:41 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think we should rename this site "ProgrammersOverflow" and create a P.SE cesspit like in the olden days.

Lightness Races in Orbit

but if you're the sort of person who is ever going to consider bus factor / handover in their own work (and is thus relevant to this particular discussion), you're probably also the sort of person who's not going to up and leave at a moment's notice if you can help it

But if I hated my job and suddenly didn't need to work anymore, yeah. I'd just walk.

or if you work in a security sensitive field then you would get mandated (payed) leave for your notice period

this might be a candidate for programmers.stackexchange.com as it is more about how to design a program as opposed to a specific problem — user1666620 40 secs ago

Lightness Races in Orbit

@enderland prove it

1:42 PM

@enderland how do you know??

Lightness Races in Orbit

jinx

I guess my question implies the spirit cares. :P

Lightness Races in Orbit

^_^

@ThomasOwens some on my previous team "banked" hours they used later when overtime wasn't being paid, ie work 50 hours two weeks then 20 hours the third week but fill out 40 hrs/week timecards

@enderland Some companies allow you to do that.

1:45 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit everyone who's here for any period of time comes up with the "This site's name really doesn't fit...", that drum has been beaten to death on meta and the simple answer is: It will never change. SE has made this clear; due to links around the internet and other things, they simply won't do it. Many people around here think the no-effort-posters would still post no-effort-junk-questions regardless of the name, I still think a name change would benefit...

though that tends to become a game for gaming the system

I'm not entirely sure, but some friends described a system like that. They don't get paid OT, but they do get hours that they can use. There are rules - they expire kind of quickly.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit the one I name I've always gone back to is "programming".SE because we don't care about programm ers - we want questions about the activity of programming itself. The hows and why's of it, sans poll junk and narrow "Why did this one company do this one thing that I'm going to ask the internet at large instead of that company?"

@JimmyHoffa No, not programming. Half of our topics have nothing to do with writing code. Design is the closest thing to code, but only because code is design.

@ThomasOwens they have more to do with programming than programmers...

1:48 PM

@ThomasOwens not sure I recognize your point about design right here? What are you trying to say?

Requirements isn't programming. Architecture isn't programming. Process isn't programming. Project management isn't programming.

@ThomasOwens I completely disagree! Those are all important activities in the practice of programming!

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa if anything, that would be a fair name for SO

@JimmyHoffa If you agree that code is design, then programming (the act of writing programs, writing code) is design.

codedesign.SE?

1:49 PM

@JimmyHoffa But they aren't programming. Programming is what you do in a text editor or IDE.

Lightness Races in Orbit

15 hours ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ixrec I'll give you that at least

@ThomasOwens perhaps you're right though if lots of people think "programming" means "coding" -> I think of programming as the overall active work of a programmer. Their job. "programmers" is about the programmer, "programming" is about everything a programmer does

but people may well misconstrue it

Lightness Races in Orbit

Depends whether you think "programming" is only the "typing code through a keyboard" part, or "developing software programs"

@JimmyHoffa I think we all know that requirements and architecture and methods are all part of programming.

Lightness Races in Orbit

I personally think assuming only the latter is a bit silly but y'know

1:50 PM

But that's us - professionals. To a random person, programming == writing code. That's Stack Overflow.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens You literally just said that they're not.

@ThomasOwens well we don't want randoms, we want professionals

Lightness Races in Orbit

2 mins ago, by Thomas Owens

Requirements isn't programming. Architecture isn't programming. Process isn't programming. Project management isn't programming.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit To most people, that statement is true.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens Ah, so you were playing devil's advocate?

1:51 PM

@JimmyHoffa Perhaps.

to me, programming is implementing something. Something you can outsource to a team in India and hopefully not get screwed. Design/software development/software engineering is making it possible to implement things and create the stuff you can outsource.. :P

The term "programming" is so narrow. It doesn't capture what I do at work.

It captures a small portion of what I do at work.

@ThomasOwens it's not our fault you don't get to code! :P

@JimmyHoffa I get to code.

@ThomasOwens well geez don't have to be so self defensive about it, sure, you get to "code", we believe you. It's ok. Really.

1:53 PM

@ThomasOwens kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer

Just...not necessarily using the technologies I want. Stupid customer running Java 6. And other people not knowing Scala.

I should really just write something in Scala...see what happens.

@ThomasOwens write your blog in Scala

@enderland mumble grumble I hate that article osomuch

@JimmyHoffa lol, really?

@enderland the guy's a complete prick, and effectively proclaims that's the right of it because everyone else is too. Fuck that.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa lol

I've never written any Scala. Should I (a) be ashamed, or (b) not give a shit?

1:55 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Depends. I like developing on the JVM. Not a huge fan of Java-the-language, but I like Java-the-platform.

Do you like Java-the-platform?

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens Not really

@LightnessRacesinOrbit (c) make something up about technology and proclaim that's what Scala is and others who haven't done that; they haven't done Scala!

If yes, go check out Scala and Clojure. If no, eh. Whatever.

Lightness Races in Orbit

though I concede I have basically no context in which to base a judgement

@ThomasOwens bleh; Clojure and Scala are so vastly different...

1:56 PM

@JimmyHoffa They are. But if you like Java-the-platform, you should be checking out these very different languages.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa that comment was basically Scala. y'know, everyone else who claims to be using Scala, they're not actually using Scala. twats.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit have you understanding and or experience with any underlying runtime platforms? C++ doesn't really have one per say because it's all straight native

@ThomasOwens yeah, and then throwing the one away that is basically Java on HGH; sure it's really big, but look at the underbite it's developed? That's just not healthy.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa only .NET

I mean I've written Java, don't get me wrong. But not lots or professionally

We do a bit of VB.NET though

and yeah I grok it

@JimmyHoffa I'm guessing you don't like Scala?

Lightness Races in Orbit

(I assume that's what you mean?)

1:59 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit the language Java is...blech. But the platform is a totally different thing.

@ThomasOwens I am not looking for design patterns, I just don't like that code, I think it can be improved significantly but I don't have the knowledge...

@Mathematics Teaching design is hard enough if you're in the same room as people, with computers and whiteboards. Do you have physical access to more experienced software developers? People who can do code and design reviews in the languages that you are working in? That would be the best option, I think.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm referring to the underlying platform that makes all .NET work - VB, C#, F#, Ela, IronPukitron, Fantom, whatever. The underlying platform is a totally different thing from the language - it does the JIT from IL->Native, it runs the garbage collector inside your app domain; the runtime hoists your app domain(s) and marshals the native barriers for you etc

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa Yeah, the .NET runtime

or Mono

no?

@LightnessRacesinOrbit right

Lightness Races in Orbit

2:02 PM

I understand that the platform and the language are distinct

When I said I haven't written Java in anger that was meant to tell you that, by extension, I haven't worked with much with the JVM either :P

Java the language is <insert cat puking up a hairball>, the underlying platform / runtime however is quite solid. Just as industrial strength and good as .NETs

java isn't that bad...

@LightnessRacesinOrbit to be fair, I don't know who the hell other than a language developer has worked with any of the runtimes in any significant portion. About as close to working with a runtime as I've gotten is all the debugging underlying behaviours / analyzing memory dumps in .NET

@ratchetfreak aye, I was being hyperbolic.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa right. that's why I tend to talk in terms of languages instead and abstract away whatever fresh incompetence powers their implementation

not my preference but it's not...C/C++ runs

Lightness Races in Orbit

2:05 PM

well, you're right

it's not C/C++

nothing should be C/C++

Lightness Races in Orbit

LARGELY BECAUSE "C/C++" DOES NOT EXIST YOU PLUMB

not even C or C++

Lightness Races in Orbit

is there an E yet?

yes, yes there is

1997. okay.

I think the whole alphabet is represented already

2:07 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit google disagrees...

user image

google is always right, too. so.... sorry @LightnessRacesinOrbit...

What happens after we've used all the letters for programming languages? Do we go to AA?

@ThomasOwens scotch that, I'll never go! You can't make me!

@ThomasOwens no, we have to ... get creative

you could start using emotij for language names

2:10 PM

> I like ? more than I like ? though ? has some nice features

^lack of unicode support...

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa Well that settles it then!

@ratchetfreak haven't you heard? Encryption is going to be illegal, that means we won't be allowed to use unicode characters because they're too secretive. We're going back to 8-bit ascii, woot! Oh man, this is going to make everything so much easier...

Lightness Races in Orbit

a whole 8 bits? pfft, youngster...

-3

Q: Is C programming language low level or high level?

What do you think, is C programming language low or high level? There are some information, in one is said that C is low level, and another C is high level? When I read book of Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan, there is written "C is a relatively "low level" language"?

programming-languages c low-level high-level

^-- it's every level; duh.

don't understand the down/close votes there, +1 from me. straight forward question about coding which can be relatively well answered. (You could add some informative detail to your answer @LightnessRacesinOrbit)

VTC because it's a dupe at the very least

2:22 PM

@ratchetfreak ah didn't look for a dupe

ugh dupe of a dupe? I fucking hate that.

a better fitting dupe: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/42795/…

I'm still a firm believer in: Delete dupes. Those should be the absolute first things to be deleted. They just make a damned mess

also: do not dupe questions to others that aren't exactly the same question. That's damaging and un-helpful

also don't dupe vote bad content, bad content should get a clear and accurate instruction on the fact that it's a bad question not just a a mistakenly-duplicated one. It's bad in a very non-mistaken way.

gah. The way dupe voting is done just frustrates the shit out of me.

there there, it'll be fine. Just have some more coffee

2

Just put the other dupe in a comment.

@ThomasOwens fix this! Fix it damnit! This is just..WRONG! That one question is duped to this rightly closed question:

12

Q: What do you consider to be a high-level language and for what reason?

Traditionally, C was called a high-level language, but these days it is often referred to as a low-level language (it is high-level compared to Assembly, but it is very low-level compared to, for instance, Python, these days). Generally, everyone calls languages of the sort of Python and Java hig...

programming-languages low-level high-level

^-- delete that poll garbage! and make the question duped to it open or closed on it's merits

the question duped to it isn't even an exact dupe! That question there is crap! The question duped to it is perfectly fine! Gahh!

2:26 PM

vote to reopen then

if coffee doesn't work, there is always scotch

@ratchetfreak I just did

but I can't delete vote the question it's duped to

once the third reopen vote comes in you will be able to

@ratchetfreak it frustrates me that it happened in the first place, @gnat you...you!! argh! I want to stick pins in a voodoo doll of you for the way you dupe vote; I've told you before how much I dislike that "it's nicer than closing" approach. The result is we end up with 1 decent Q dupe voted to a slightly more general Q which is dupe voted to a broad garbage closed Q because they aren't the exact same. Quality degrades in the chain like copies when you allow this dupe-vote-on-not-exact-identical

grumble grumble

@gnat and worst of all it keeps that garbage Q undeletable because the dupe to it. Never dupe to something that's closed junk! Just vote to close the Q as junk if it's junk, and if it's not then it sure shouldn't be duped to something that is! You!!!

I'm going to get more coffee..

8 mins ago, by ratchet freak

there there, it'll be fine. Just have some more coffee

2:43 PM

Our coffee machine got a software update and now has latte and cappacino options

Happy Latte Day!

@JimmyHoffa How's that? I deleted the obvious poll.

@ThomasOwens unfortunately not

And the other two appear properly duped.

@Ampt the fuck? I want that software update! I'll install it on this macbook thing; where will the latte come out? The SD-card slot maybe?

@Mathematics Hm. That's the best way to learn software design. It's by thinking through different solutions to problems and talking to others (preferably with more experience who have solved more problems and can point out flaws).

Physically being at a whiteboard and having a computer to do prototype and test is the absolute best. Is this a design for work or a personal project? If it's a personal project, are there any meetup groups about software development that you could go to?

2:49 PM

@ThomasOwens I would be thoroughly suspect of any meetup groups for such...

I just don't much imagine many really experienced folks showing up to such. But who knows.

@JimmyHoffa You'd have to find out. It may not pan out.

@ThomasOwens trouble is for someone who doesn't know any better; they'd not have any way of telling.

@JimmyHoffa That is true.

> It's a trick; get an axe!

@ThomasOwens indeed they are. Thankyou for the deletion.

@gnat shakes fist

@JimmyHoffa well it now has 2 packs instead of one - a foam pack (probably dehydrated milk) and then you put in the espresso or coffee pack of your choice

it's not bad

2:55 PM

@Ampt this sounds like a contraption that could only generate terrible coffee. Nevermind, keep your software update.

I loved the machine at Microsoft; had a hug bin of beans in top and you'd press the button for which of the bins to make your cuppa from and it would grind them fresh from it's bin right there for each and every cup. Noms.

@JimmyHoffa Didn't you hear me? IT'S NOT BAD

ugggghhhh

@Ampt you're drinking melted foam, clearly you're wrong.

but then you have to work for the corporate overlord that is microsoft

@Ampt best job I ever had. Say what you want about their software; but nobody can say as a company they aren't bloody great to their employees.

@ThomasOwens I am learning by Plural Sight mostly

2:57 PM

@JimmyHoffa what? Are you really advocating for MSFT right now?

I started personal project in angular and other technologies but I don't have much time to spend on it atm

out of all the people in the room, I would peg you dead last to tout the awesomness of a giant corp

I learn a lot by video courses

there are hundred of Entity Framework videos out there and resources

but its really hard to find something similar for strongly typed dataset

@Mathematics Software development, especially requirements engineering and design, are collaborative. It's hard to learn those from videos.

It's one thing to have videos and tutorials to learn a new language or tool. But you don't have the opportunity to talk to other people. Sometimes, face-to-face is the best way to learn. The Internet is great, but it has limits.

my biggest issue is, I don't even know what to call my approach to data access here, and how to find resources related to it (think you already have link to my question)

2:59 PM

@Ampt meh, Google looks like an awesome place to work though I've heard they murder some employees with hours. MSFT has had a notoriously quiet employee group compared to most because though I'm sure they crush some employees, they truly have a huge focus on treating their employees right. Perhaps their softer approach to their employees is why they move slower and push out a touch less quality than Amazon and Google... meh.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa dunno - sometimes the "dupe" is not-dupe enough to have wording more suited for a slightly different situation/search phrase. Still worth closing as dupe but also worth having both entrypoints to the answers

although dupe of dupe is a bit dumb I guess

@LightnessRacesinOrbit cut cut cut

@ThomasOwens can you just suspend @LightnessRacesinOrbit and @gnat's ability to dupe vote? Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top??

Lightness Races in Orbit

that's undemocratic

you, you ... terrorist

you think you'll get away with this scotch free? you won't!

@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh great, now alphabet soup is recording everything we say. Thanks.

Lightness Races in Orbit

> We saw it anyway.

3:17 PM

This is relevant to our interests: You can make whiskey out of beer. And they are making it out of Sam Adams beer..

Lightness Races in Orbit

god these social-media-integrated comment systems are SHIT

the login almost never works properly

the comment thread takes ages to load and results in auto-scroll all over the damn place

etc etc

they are also extremely JS intensive and slow down my browser

crappy crappy crappy ~~programmers~~ sorry, software developers

OMG GUYS all the stars are pinned messages.

Lightness Races in Orbit

Not all of them.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh. They were all pinned in my view. I don't keep chrome maximized.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@ThomasOwens whoosh

though you have just reminded me to find out why my More Stars userscript is not working

3:23 PM

hey, that bookmarklet worked

neat.

Lightness Races in Orbit

it's so obnoxious how much space random crap takes up in the sidebar so I had a userscript to allow most of it to be collapsed, then I could see More Stars

but it's not working

@JimmyHoffa only if you're in 1926 and browsing on HTTP

@LightnessRacesinOrbit O_o

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa see my comments on the StackApps q

laterz

Guys. Did you see the whiskey beer?

How are you not thrilled by this concept?

3:30 PM

@ThomasOwens ???

That's like "Hey, did you see the new $50 teleporters?" - if we had, do you think we would be sitting at computers??

12 mins ago, by Thomas Owens

This is relevant to our interests: You can make whiskey out of beer. And they are making it out of Sam Adams beer..

who cares about Sam Adams. Bah. Way the hell better beers in the world, they just somehow captured the market message of "We're craft beer! (don't look at other craft beers and find out the distinction don't don't don't)"

@JimmyHoffa Sam Adams is ok. But they are using it to make whiskey.

Plus, the person who started that distillery was a cofounder of Sam Adams...so...

@ThomasOwens Yes. It's ok. However whiskey made from beer I am very intrigued by... though my gut tells me it would be terribly sweet - like bourbon.

@JimmyHoffa I do hope to try it. If I do, I'll report back.

And by "if", I mean "when".

3:33 PM

@ThomasOwens yes, do share. Do you like whiskey to begin with?

@JimmyHoffa Some, yes. I'm a Scotch drinker, myself.

@ThomasOwens good then. I look forward to your report soldier.

I prefer Glenfiddich, Glenlivet, and Lagavulin.

@ThomasOwens mm Lagavulin... too rich for my blood but for the snifters I've had on occasion at fancy joints

Lightness Races in Orbit

I accidentally drank vodka and tonic the other night. Surprisingly nice, especially considering I traditionally have not enjoyed tonic water.

3:39 PM

@JimmyHoffa I didn't say I had it often. I usually have Glenlivet at home.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit nobody enjoys tonic water; but it does complement some alcoholic drinks relatively well.

Although I think I have a bottle of Glenfiddich, too, that's still not open. I don't like having too many open bottles at once.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa it's like lemon squash that's not terrible for you

@ThomasOwens I always get those two mixed up; looking at the bottle pictures I've been through a hand full of bottles of livett but honestly I'm not sure I've ever tried fiddich..

sub-9am booze talk. It's Friday.

@JimmyHoffa I have, too. It took me a while to remember which one I actually liked.

Lightness Races in Orbit

3:41 PM

I bet you've never had a single dram of scotch, Jimmy

Especially out at a restaurant.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit never, that would be far too little; it's always been at least 4 or 5 drams for me..

Lightness Races in Orbit

I knew it!

@ThomasOwens errr.... all whiskey is made out of beer

yeah, just double checked - whiskey comes from grain, which makes the pre-distilled product beer.

is there hop involved?

3:53 PM

the main difference is that almost all of the flavor of the beer is lost when you distill it, so you usually just throw grain water and yeast together

@Ampt Yes and no. If you look at an input-process-output map for whiskey, the inputs are traditionally grain, water, and yeast (which are the same inputs for beer, but beer includes hops). However, if you look at an input-process-output map for this distillery, the input is beer.

@ratchetfreak depends on the distiller, but likely no.

@ThomasOwens But to get the alcohol in the first place, you do ferment the grain, water and yeast, making beer.

Most distilleries will start with raw grains, yeasts, and water. This distillery is starting with a product that includes those (plus hops) to make whiskey. Same output, same raw inputs overall, but the viewpoint of the distillery is different.

@Ampt It all depends on how you define your system.

But yes, a distiller will ferment the grain, water, and yeast.

@ThomasOwens ?? I'm confused by this. without fermenting your wort, you have no alcohol to distill

@Ampt It's a Systems Thinking thing.

I'm defining the system to be a distillery.

3:55 PM

@ThomasOwens A rose by any other name...

In a traditional distillery, the inputs are grain, yeast, water. The process is fermenting and distilling. The output is whiskey.

@ThomasOwens ah ah ah

not correct

In this distillery, the input is beer. The process is distilling. The output is whiskey. The inputs and process have been changed.

casking is what separates vodka from whiskey

that and the requirement of grain only

@Ampt Oh, yeah. I forgot the casking part.

3:58 PM

@ThomasOwens so they're outsourcing the fermenting part, but the input into the distilling step is the same

@RobertHarvey - I'm leaving this forum for good. Useless garbage. all of you — Nexusfactor 11 mins ago

OMFG

@Ampt Yep. Which is why it's a systems thinking thing.

granted, one usually doesn't optimize for flavor in the fermenting step like Sam Adams

An Introduction to General Systems Thinking

Everyone should read that book.

@ThomasOwens $10 on Kindle.

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