The Whiteboard

12:02 AM

And of course you have to map the riddle maze of elder wisdom later.

5:56 AM

What can I say, I submitted it and this thread was listed and related? It is related, though, and I did answer the part of his question I actually had an answer for. I'm new to posting here, so thanks for your criticism. It is kind of spammy, I'll admit. I just submitted it to an old thread and am looking for more instant feedback in case anyone talks me out of using it before I get to used to it. — Jason Ensinger 35 mins ago

^^^ "It is kind of spammy, I'll admit. I just submitted it to an old thread and am looking for more instant feedback..." Priceless

gnat

1:03 PM

1

Q: Why migrate a question with an accepted answer?

This question "What are offsets in Assembly and how do I use them?" was asked on Programmers.SE, answered (by me), and the answer was accepted. It has subsequently been migrated to SO, along with the rep from Programmers. To me, the question and it's answer could equally belong to either site, e...

^^^ question challenging our migration to SO

user20683

1:27 PM

@gnat I stand by my decision. It's not a universal question. Offsets might do something different in some other assembly.

user41796

0

Q: Does Kosaraju Algorithm Transpose updates the original graph?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosaraju%27s_algorithm Let G be a directed graph and S be an empty stack. While S does not contain all vertices: Choose an arbitrary vertex v not in S. Perform a depth-first search starting at v. Each time that depth-first search finishes expanding a v...

algorithms graph graph-traversal

user41796

^^^ Can anyone explain why that has 3 close votes on it?

user20683

Because the language is too mathy

user41796

I'm rolling my eyes right now, but you're right

user41796

The close vote reason is crap though

user20683

1:30 PM

which is why I closed and reopened to clear out the votes.

user41796

@WorldEngineer Thanks! I knew I should have gotten my flag request in quicker

user41796

I'm thinking I want to flag Jim's comment as offensive... :-)

user20683

@GlenH7 declined. They are factually incorrect but that doesn't make them commonly offensive.

user41796

I'll pretend to sputter and blubber about the decline....

user41796

Reading over the Assembly question, it does look to be a better fit on SO than it would be on Progs

user41796

1:36 PM

It's in that gray (grey) zone of overlap between the two sites.

user20683

@GlenH7 It's a borderline in a certain sense but it's more along the lines of "What does this code do?" rather than "Why is this code put together this way?"

user41796

right

Thomas Owens

-1

Q: Commercial vs Personal software licenses

If I work for a company and write code for them but I choose to buy a tool for myself and use it to write code for the company, do I need a commercial or personal license? Specifically, in this case, I am asking about WebStorm IDE JetBrains have Commercial (For companies and organizations) and ...

licensing ide

Why would anyone use their own money to buy a tool for work?

That's just insanity.

user41796

I owe Ampt a $0.05. MichaelT bought his own copy of intelliJ

user41796

But I think he got it purely for personal use

Yannis Rizos

1:45 PM

@WorldEngineer Re the offsets question: I disagree with the migration (and am about to post an answer on MSO). We shouldn't be sending away good on topic questions, even if there's a better site for them.

No big deal, obviously, but the guy complaining on MSO has a point.

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 I've used demos and sometimes bought tools for me to use, but only for me personally. If I've found useful tools, I've suggested them at work. But I would never spend my own money (without a reimbursement planned, anyway) for anything for work.

user41796

@ThomasOwens - sometimes you just get so frustrated at the lack of tools and have enough disposable income to where the personal benefit makes the purchase worthwhile.

user55340

@ThomasOwens I bought it for me, for my projects, I just use it for work too because its better than eclipse or netbeans.

ratchet freak

@GlenH7 then you pressure your work to get the license for you instead of spending your own money

user41796

For example, I just bought myself a 23" monitor for use at work. The 2nd monitor they had given me was a teeny tiny POS 17". And the laptop's display is simply wretched

Thomas Owens

1:47 PM

@GlenH7 I wouldn't work for a place that didn't have decent tool support. Of course, we still use ClearCase (for the near future, but ClearCase isn't that bad).

user41796

@YannisRizos part of the whinging seemed to be about Progs vs. SO repz. His Progs account is significantly lower so I think he was upset at not building rep here.

Yannis Rizos

@GlenH7 Yeah, and I couldn't care less for his (or anyone else's) rep. Still, there's little reason to migrate answered borderline questions.

user41796

@ThomasOwens It's a cost vs. benefit analysis. I was tired of dealing with the poor displays and my eyes being tired at the end of every day. Buying a 23" monitor was a lot cheaper than finding a new job. :-)

Thomas Owens

I disagree with whoever suggests that you shouldn't migrate questions that have an accepted answer.

@GlenH7 See, my company would buy a bigger monitor if you needed it,

user55340

My former employer... nearly everyone in the Point of Sales department had bought their own chairs.

Thomas Owens

1:49 PM

If it's off-topic on your site and on-topic somewhere else, the question should be migrated.

Yannis Rizos

@ThomasOwens The key word is "borderline". I can see how the question may be a better fit for SO, but I don't think it's completely off topic for us.

user41796

Mine even went to the effort of having a 6 sigma project to demonstrate the gains by outfitting everyone with 24" monitors. Former CIO signed the PO to buy them. But then he left and the PO has stalled out. Rumor is they'll only upgrade on new eqpt refresh

Thomas Owens

@YannisRizos I'm referring to the MSO question being quoted in the MSO complaint about the migration.

user55340

Btw, for the 'mericans, tomorrow is national food on a stick day.

Thomas Owens

BRB. Bouncing off to a quick status standup. Although it's the first one, so it's likely to not be a standup.

user41796

1:51 PM

@MichaelT Need to find fish-on-a-stick for all those who observe Lent.

user55340

We (current employer) is celebrating it today.

user55340

I brought in some breakfast:

user55340

gnat

@WorldEngineer yeah, it looks about right to me too. And MSO consensus appears that there was nothing wrong at our side

user41796

I wish I had a county fair nearby so I could have a fried twinkie on a stick tomorrow.

Yannis Rizos

1:55 PM

@gnat It isn't really about right and wrong, and I'm not looking to assign blame to anyone. Borderline questions are tough, and you all know I've done my fair share of bs migrations in the past...

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Decided a swift end to your colleagues entire digestive systems is your favorite form of celebration?

user41796

@YannisRizos That's only because TW was (is?) our toilet bowl.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT "You get a heart attack, and you get a heart attack, and you get a heart attack, everyone get's a heart attack! Yay!"

user55340

The "on a stick" generally assumes that will be true no matter what the food is.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 are

user55340

1:58 PM

In the break room there's smores on a stick (large marshmallows, coated in chocolate with gramcracker crumbles on it... on a stick)

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT banana on a stick

user41796

@JimmyHoffa fried banana on a stick coated in chocolate.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 and ham!

enderland

in The Water Cooler, 1 min ago, by Chad

@gnat I could I love going off on programmers... kind of disappointed that we havent had any bad migrations to bitch about lately

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Sorry, we'll up our numbers; I'll go hunt up some garbage to flush your way.

user55340

2:01 PM

@JimmyHoffa There's that "what should I do with my job/life" question that was closed...

user55340

Or...

user55340

-4

Q: How should an engineer interview a manager he'll report to?

As a software engineer who's interviewing a manager he'll report to, what questions should I ask? What are the things I should pay attention to? Thanks.

interview

user55340

This would be most appropriate on The Workplace, but would likely be closed as a duplicate of What kind of questions should one ask in an interview (for some technical positions, eg., software engineer) — MichaelT 11 hours ago

user55340

If you really want it, I'm sure we could get a mod to reopen and migrate it.

gnat

@YannisRizos the question that starts by asking "How did R1 move in a few lines of code and what made it do it?" would be safer at SO. Title sounds conceptual, but look at what is inside. It has better place in IDE than at whiteboard

    my_asm

        ; setup a pointer to the base address of port 1
        LDR     R1,=0x2009c020      ; pointer to base of port1

        LDR     R3,=0x00040000      ; set LED 1 port pin to output
        STR     R3,[R1,#0x00]       ; set direction bits (base+0x00)


    loop
        LDR     R3,=0x00000000      ; set LED 1 off (all bits 'zero')
        STR     R3,[R1,#0x14]       ; set outputs directly (base+0x14)

        LDR     R3,=0x00040000      ; set LED 1 on (bit 18 aka P1.18 is 'one')

Yannis Rizos

2:05 PM

@gnat This is where we disagree: Migrations are not for finding a better place for the question. A migration starts with a close vote, if the question isn't 100% off topic for the site it was originally asked, migrating it shouldn't be an option.

Now, if you feel the question was 100% off topic on Programmers, that's a different discussion. But I get the feeling that neither you nor @WorldEngineer thought that was the case.

gnat

@YannisRizos guess we agree here, though maybe not in a way you assume. I'd vote close it at Programmers. Yes I felt 100% it was OT here

closure as off-topic at Programmers sounds about right: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/129632/165773 Also, as I have delete vote privileges at Programmers, I can assure you that there has been indeed "risk deletion on the current site", mentioned in migration guidance (I would cast my vote to delete it) — gnat 54 mins ago

Yannis Rizos

Ah, ok then. Voting to close was the proper action if you felt it was 100% OT here.

Perhaps you could post an answer on MSO explaining why you thought the question was OT here.

gnat

@YannisRizos I don't vote migrate when I feel it may stay as-is here

Jimmy Hoffa

...just saying.

enderland

@GlenH7 SE's response is meh

user41796

2:18 PM

@enderland Sorry to hear it.

enderland

meh, it's ok - I'm not sure what to feel about it, guess i'll read it in more details later

user55340

@GlenH7 it means he has an excuse not to be a mod... unlike us.

user41796

It's likely a fine line they need to walk. The details may prove more interesting, but I wouldn't think that they would build much between the lines.

user41796

@MichaelT Sooner or later we'll get an election. :-)

user55340

That meta migration... I'd close it as unclear if it didn't bounce the migration back to the main site.

user55340

2:20 PM

Could someone clear the migration on that one so I can cast a close vote.

enderland

@GlenH7 yeah I don't konw what I was expecting but that makes sense from an SE perspective, realistically

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 honestly, until P.SE stops being so awesome, I don't think that's going to happen; I'd pin it on "later" rather than sooner.

user55340

I'm still trying to read that and understand what the meta rant is about.

user55340

@JimmyHoffa As it continues to be awesome we get more traffic and might warrant another mod or two.

user41796

@MichaelT Have a look at the 10k link I put in the meta question. And scroll up to ~1AM in the chat window and you'll see a comment that gnat linked in.

Jimmy Hoffa

2:29 PM

The community moderation is effective enough around here + the site's general stats etc have only been up and the content quality as well etc, until the community moderation starts faltering and we start seeing a serious uptick in unclosed/undeleted junk, I don't expect them to feel any need to have an election.

user55340

@GlenH7 I'm still going huh.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT it's a good point, but I doubt it's traffic (unless it was traffic going down) that's going to trigger an election. If we get more and more content that's great, but until that amount of content starts having too much garbage and putting a bad face on our front page, I don't think SE's going to worry.

moral of the story; if all of you and a couple other active in the moderation around here stopped close and delete voting for a week, SE would probably ask for an election then :P

enderland

@JimmyHoffa that's what my worry on workplace is, most of those people are currently running for moderation ;)

user41796

@MichaelT Add an unhealthy does of entitlement to a comment flame war (since cleaned up) and that's the result.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa So you're trying to say that we should stop our activities in order to force an election?

Jimmy Hoffa

2:37 PM

wait... is that guy in meta actually saying that not following the site guidelines makes you a criminal ??

I have to be misinterpreting that...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa yep. That' pretty well sums it up

user41796

And we violated his 12 whatever of the UN universal rights and his 9th Amendment of the US Constitution.

gnat

21

A: User being downvoted for personal reasons

The proper and correct use of votes is to evaluate a question or answer's usefulness and clarity, and that is the way that people should be using their votes. That said, users can use their votes however they wish, so long as they are not committing voter fraud. This particular user has repea...

Let's clear up a few things, shall we?

First of all, Stack Exchange is not a free-speech platform. Anyone who makes this claim does not understand what "free speech" means. Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. It does not mean that you have the right to voice your opinions using tools and platforms that do not belong to you. Stack Exchange is a privately-owned company; ultimately, they (and the user community) gets to decide what material gets posted to their websites, and wh…

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Let me be entirely clear about this in that case: His 9th amendment right is without a doubt the right to remain crazy.

gnat

^^^ worth recalling every time abusers attempt to hide under the smokescreen of their imaginary "rights"

ratchet freak

2:41 PM

most of those rights declarations are superseded by the terms of use anyway

user41796

@gnat it's blatant "hogwash" with zero understanding of how the criminal and civil justice systems work.

user41796

I'd use stronger language, but the appropriate word choices will get my comment flagged as offensive....

user41796

@ratchetfreak They don't even apply in this case.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 it's blatant "hogwash" with zero understanding of how words like his make a person utterly ridiculous

user41796

There was no attack. There is no obligation for anyone to "rush to his defense." His answer wasn't even that good to begin with.

user41796

2:43 PM

@JimmyHoffa Perhaps the only thing criminal is his misunderstanding of the rights he cited.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I don't even like the idea of his rights being raised in the context; it's too nonsense, I'll lay the criminality squarely on whatever education system failed him so ruthlessly.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa The failings are entirely his own. The education system is only obligated to provide the education (constrained by boundaries of reasonableness). If the education fails to stick at all whatsoever, well, then, that's on the student.

RhysW

Just popping in to please ask you guys to stop breaking the law. You're making the rest of us look bad ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

@RhysW I'm just practicing my 9th amendment right to get funky

RhysW

is that a shark with lazor beams on its head?

Thomas Owens

2:50 PM

Well, I have the right to the right to the right to the right.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens also known as your right to circle

user41796

@RhysW yw.

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa ಠ_ಠ

Actually, it's OK. I thought it was older than 2007.

user55340

@GlenH7 Trying to read through that code that was posted, I'm just gonna go with "php is a sign of the crazy" - not sure if its a cause or effect though.

ratchet freak

has anyone seen the privacy statement for short attention spans...

quite funny really

make me want them for all site :)

user41796

2:57 PM

@MichaelT perhaps referential integrity has been violated and a circular dependency introduced? So PHP being a sign of the crazy is both the cause and the effect.

user55340

Let that be a warning to prospective programmers... stay away from php and Haskell or they'll make you crazy.

user55340

(I'm debating if I should flag that meta question for unlocking - if its unlocked the roomba can eat it in a few days... if its unlocked, there can be more comments on it)

Thomas Owens

Guys. Be careful talking bad about PHP. @YannisRizos may suspend the lot of you.

user55340

@ThomasOwens Depends on if he agrees or not.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ratchetfreak link? Sound's like a good larf for the morning. Could use it; on call and was woke with a prod issue at 4 something this morning...

user55340

3:04 PM

@GlenH7 its rather hard to violate the rhs of a statement - you can't do too much funky on that side. The violation typically happens as part of the assignment to the lefthand side or in corrupting the data that was on the left hand side in the first place. Thus, you can't violate rights.

user55340

That said, in php you probably could violate the rights too.

ratchet freak

@JimmyHoffa look at the bottom right of the page...

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I was wondering why you were in so early.

ratchet freak

or just in the footer of every other page

@JimmyHoffa but if you are really lazy stackexchange.com/legal/privacy-policy

MetaFight

meh. I just had a recruiter see "WPF" on my CV and call me up about a "WP8" job.

Close enough, I guess.

user20683

3:08 PM

Also terminology for those who are ignorant or lazy: Slander is lies spoken about you. Libel is printed lies. You cannot slander someone on this by definition.

ratchet freak

@WorldEngineer so slander is spoken libel, libel is printed slander

user20683

@ratchetfreak more or less

MetaFight

Can you say "Bananas"?
http://meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6569/should-criminal-activity-be-tolerated

user41796

@WorldEngineer I'm surprised you didn't add that as a clarifying comment to the post.... :-)

user20683

@GlenH7 I work in retail. I'm pretty good about not poking the crazies.

ratchet freak

3:11 PM

@MetaFight wow you are late to the party

user41796

@MetaFight You guessed the context correctly, congratulations!

MetaFight

lol, sorry.

hehe

user41796

@ratchetfreak In his defense, we hadn't mentioned the context in quite a bit.

MetaFight

I didn't scroll back... but I had a good idea you were talking about that guy.

user41796

@WorldEngineer I don't miss retail for those reasons. Christmas shopping seemed to bring out the worst of them.

ratchet freak

3:12 PM

there remains the scroll wheel for that

MetaFight

On a more serious note, I worry about that guy. His response sounds less than healthy.

user55340

(btw, the sausage & pancakes on a stick thing appears to be quite well received - people were surprised how good it was)

ratchet freak

@MichaelT wait until they have digested it

MetaFight

I assumed that sausage + pancake == delicious was pretty obvious.

Jimmy Hoffa

> This will teach you what info we collect and how we use it. If you wanted to learn to play the keytar, you’re in the wrong place.

Apparently I'm not to be reading that...

user55340

3:14 PM

@MetaFight I don't like to judge people by their avatar (if I did, I'd be worried about you) - but the avatar seems a bit... more likely to have such a post.

MetaFight

Hey, my avatar is great!

ratchet freak

a guy in pigtails?

MetaFight

Frank Zappa in pigtails!

user55340

@MetaFight March 28th (we're celebrating it on not friday - the combination of fish on a stick is difficult, and some people routinely head elsewhere for Friday lunch) is national something on a stick day. somethingonastick.com

MetaFight

awesome

Jimmy Hoffa

3:17 PM

@MichaelT good? Anything with that much fat and sugar all combined is going to be better than good, that's the sort of thing so amazing it makes your heart flutter....literally...

user55340

@MetaFight Chase that link, go to the gallery, #18 of 37 looks like a good avatar option too.

user41796

@MichaelT His retaliatory comment to maple_shaft was pretty telling.

MetaFight

simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Khlav_Kalash_vendor

user55340

MetaFight

3:21 PM

I have the very same beard.

user20683

@MichaelT You can apparently get Shark on a Stick at many state fairs.

user55340

@WorldEngineer And Jimmy is still giving me a hard time about the sausage and pancackes on a stick this morning.

user55340

Jimmy Hoffa

> We’re not responsible for any information you give other websites we link to. Sort of like how your TV maker isn’t responsible if you buy a lousy product, even if you saw it in an awesome commercial.

The creativity of some that would even think to sue the TV manufacturer is awe inspiring in a mental-health-help-should-be-free sort of way

user41796

@JimmyHoffa This country would likely be a lot better off if high quality mental health care was free.

Jimmy Hoffa

3:33 PM

haha Jorg's comment here (10k link) is hilarious

user55340

@JimmyHoffa And this is what 10k is for.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I can think of few better ways to decrease criminal activity

Yannis Rizos

I think I'll re-open that Meta question, post an answer saying "sue me" and close it again.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT precisely.

user41796

@YannisRizos triple-dog-dare-you.

Jimmy Hoffa

3:34 PM

@GlenH7 my wife has made me watch a christmas story way too many times. You're skipping all etiquette here going straight to the triple-dog dare...

user41796

(for those not in the know, there is no higher dare than the triple-dog-dare)

user55340

@YannisRizos But then we'd so disrespect you (10k link).

user41796

@JimmyHoffa sometimes you have to say to hell with protocol.

Ilya_Gazman

Can anyone help me understand why my algorithm work slower in Java 7?

0

Q: Java: Racing Arrays.sort

I created some improvement to QuickSort and decide to test it against Java Arrays.sort(). The results are fascinating: On Java 6: My Time / System Time = 74 / 83 = 0.891566265060241 My Time / System Time = 75 / 79 = 0.9493670886075949 My Time / System Time = 75 / 84 = 0.8928571428571...

java algorithm sorting quicksort

user55340

Compiled the same? are other benchmarks the same? Is the byte code the same? Is the jvm the same? Does the old bytecode run at the same speed in the current JRE? Has the JIT been tweaked between versions? JIT does a lot of fancy things under the cover - running it again might make it faster.

ratchet freak

3:39 PM

that's the problem with java optimizing: a small change that should be insignificant can have major impact

user41796

@Ilya_Gazman You should consider increasing the number of tests, as suggested. The amount of variance between individual runs is still pretty large. So you could have outside environmental factors affecting things.

user55340

Are you running a large enough sample to engage the JIT? Has gc kicked in where you didn't expect it?

Ilya_Gazman

I am doing 1M tests

I create 1000 sets of 1000 test of 1000 items

user55340

(I recall one test in java of the foo ^= true; and two runs of the same code gave different results in the same program because the JIT was not engaging at first)

ratchet freak

100 runs on arrays of 100 long is not enough

Ilya_Gazman

3:41 PM

The numbers are prety much the same

I don't see any major difference between the runs. I got a print each set

user55340

Did you recompile it in Java 7 vs Java 6? Is the bytecode the same?

ratchet freak

just let it run until the timing drops

Ilya_Gazman

same code, once compile in java 7 once in java 6

user55340

... and you've examined the bytecode?

ratchet freak

that's the quickest way to tell when JIT kicks in

Ilya_Gazman

3:42 PM

@MichaelT What do you mean?

ratchet freak

@Ilya_Gazman you looked at the .class file

user55340

11

Q: Is it possible to view bytecode of Class file?

Possible Duplicate: Is there a java classfile / bytecode editor to edit instructions? Java source code is compiled into bytecode, which is actually in the class file. Is it possible to view bytecode of a compiled class? If it is possible, can it be edited? Is there an eclipse plugin...

java bytecode bytecode-manipulation

Ilya_Gazman

no I didn't

Do you think the byte code will not be the same?

user55340

I don't know... it could. You need to look to see if it is.

Ilya_Gazman

Well probably libraries changed and it's not the same

user55340

3:43 PM

So you're not running in the same JRE either?

Ilya_Gazman

this probably the problem

Once under jre 7 and once under jre 6

Only the source code the same

user55340

(thats the "did you try running the java 6 compiled class and the java 7 compiled class in the same jvm / jre environment")

Ilya_Gazman

nop

user41796

>
My Time / System Time = 115 / 70 = 1.6428571428571428
My Time / System Time = 101 / 76 = 1.3289473684210527
My Time / System Time = 102 / 61 = 1.6721311475409837

user41796

Those are some wild swings in times there

user41796

3:45 PM

I'll agree that the run times for JRE6 are much closer

ratchet freak

that's 20% swing

user55340

So you've changed: compiler, JVM, JRE... and any of those things could cause a change in runtime. You need to examine if there is a difference holding as much as you can constant otehrwise.

user41796

But I would want to run more timings to see how they cluster.

Ilya_Gazman

@GlenH7 I meant between the outputs. Doesn't matter if its 10K tests or just 1K

user55340

When you are dealing with Java and the JIT - it very much matters how many tests you run. Some of the optimizations for the JIT won't kick in unless it identifies a hotspot in the code.

Ilya_Gazman

3:47 PM

@GlenH7 Would it be rude if I ask you to do this for me?

user55340

You might also try tinkering with the JIT options to see if they change between your Java 6 and Java 7 runs.

user41796

@Ilya_Gazman Not rude, but I don't have the time to run your performance tests. :-)

Ilya_Gazman

@MichaelT Good idea

user55340

oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/…

Ilya_Gazman

It made me exited to see that I perform better on java 6, and than the desepointment when I tested on 7.

user55340

3:50 PM

I'd still check the 'simple' things first to see if the java 7 vs java 6 compiles are different... but there are so many variables that can happen with java.

Ilya_Gazman

:(

user55340

@ratchetfreak ref for your open files answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/870173/…

user55340

@Ilya_Gazman found something that might help you in thinking about the problem and benchmarking: javaspecialists.co.za/archive/…

user55340

That particular link is on the question of whats the fastest way to do flag = !flag;in Java

Ilya_Gazman

tnx

user55340

4:04 PM

One run of the code:

user55340

time for flag ^= true: 12397ms
time for flag = !flag: 11356ms
time for flag = flag?false:true: 11326ms
time for flag ^= true: 5697ms
time for flag = !flag: 11326ms
time for flag = flag?false:true: 11326ms

user55340

Note the change in the first run of ^= vs the second run.

user55340

(in one process run - not two different invocations of Java)

user55340

Also, the size of the timing loops was 10e9 tests.

user55340

> Don't forget that an intelligent compiler could've recognised what you were doing and done it on a bit level. There are many factors that affect Java performance: architecture, compiler, hotspot compiler, hardware, etc. and these all play a role when it comes to determining performance.

ratchet freak

4:06 PM

in that article don't forget that most of the time would have been spent in the loop overhead

user55340

> What happened? I have to assume that some part of the hotspot kicked in after some iterations and that the second example was only faster because it was second, so I ran the examples longer:

user55340

4:18 PM

@ratchetfreak Thats why it was 1B iterations, to try to get the non-loop aspect to be big enough of an issue so that it would be noticeable.

MetaFight

4:39 PM

fuck yeah. I just applied for a job not exactly sure where it was. The recruiter calls me up and tells me it's pretty much right next door to me. that would be sweet.

walking to work!

user41796

@MetaFight WPF being misinterpreted as WP8 FTW?

MetaFight

lol, this is a different job.

they made a point of stating they value modern tech over a fancy office with bean bags... I'm not sure what that means.

but my ears perked when they also mentioned the work day starts at 9am.

user41796

@MetaFight so long as it doesn't end at 9PM

dylanribb

@MetaFight It means they'd rather have people who want to learn about technology instead of hanging out in a ball pit or play ping-pong all day.

MetaFight

@GlenH7 agreed.

@dylanribb here's hoping.

dylanribb

4:43 PM

If you ever see the words "[insert language] ninja" or "Kombucha tap" in a job posting, run away.

user41796

Could also mean they didn't spend squat for the furnishing but make up for it with hardware refreshes every year

MetaFight

@MichaelT Does my new avatar put your mind at ease?

user55340

You're now green thing on blue background rather than guy with pigtails.

user41796

@dylanribb I had to google kombucha

dylanribb

@GlenH7 It's disgusting.

Some people claim to enjoy it. I call those people liars.

ratchet freak

4:45 PM

@GlenH7 do I even want to know?

user41796

30 secs ago, by dylanribb

@GlenH7 It's disgusting.

user41796

Kombucha

Kombucha Russian: chaynyy grib (чайный гриб), Chinese: chájūn (茶菌), Korean: chabeoseot (차버섯), is a lightly effervescent fermented drink of sweetened black tea that is used as a functional food. It is produced by fermenting the tea using a symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast, or "SCOBY". Although kombucha is claimed to have several beneficial effects on health, these claims are not supported by scientific evidence. Drinking kombucha has been linked to serious side effects and deaths, and improper preparation can lead to contamination. Etymology In Japan stands for a different bever...

user41796

Without a measurable abv percentage, I'm not sure I'm interested

AJ Henderson

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

sometimes I love .Net, sometimes I hate it

user41796

@AJHenderson There is no love. Only hate.

user41796

4:55 PM

Even when it does everything you want; there is only hate.

dylanribb

@GlenH7 And Stockholm Syndrome.

user41796

:-D

AJ Henderson

trying to reduce visibility of the data access layer to the UI by making it internal so that only the business layer. Well, looked like it would work great right up until I discovered a nice little bit of trivia

apparently if you have a generic class definition that you are closing out with a type marked internal, the class you are defining must also be internal... :(

user41796

strong governance may work better for you then

AJ Henderson

well, theoretically I can get around it by making the classes public but the members internal, it's just frustrating that I couldn't make the types invisible entirely. Oh well.

I was more just venting frustration at .Net than actually needing suggestions on work arounds :)

user41796

4:58 PM

Depending upon the day you'll get some, all, or none. :-)

AJ Henderson

I loved C# as a developer, but now that I do more framework and architectural type work, I find myself constantly running full speed in to it's limits

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I will say, after they got rid of the live stuff with the abv, it doesn't seem to have the same pop in it's flavor I used to enjoy. Haven't really bothered with it since..

user41796

@JimmyHoffa You used to drink it?

Jimmy Hoffa

aye

dylanribb

Where the heck does cabal install stuff?

Jimmy Hoffa

4:59 PM

not often, but once in a while, it was pleasant and refreshing, a sharp flavor unlike much else

@dylanribb under ~/ generally

or $home rather

somewhere under there anyway, I believe

but it likely varies

dylanribb

Hmm...

user41796

@AJHenderson that's where governance comes back into play

Jimmy Hoffa

in windows I've seen it in my appsettings folder, and I've seen it place stuff in it's own folder where it's installed

dylanribb

Yeah, according to the tutorial for yesod it should be under ~/.cabal/bin

But I just ran the installation process and that folder isn't anywhere to be found. Frustrating.

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb Don't have to worry about it

ghc will resolve and find the things you installed

or rather cabal will (it's package management and a build tool)

AJ Henderson

5:02 PM

@GlenH7 we already have a lot of code quality verification stuff. I'm also the one who writes most of that. But we like to try to make it easier for devs not to run in to those walls when possible

dylanribb

Only problem is that when I run "yesod init" from the command line it doesn't find it, probably because it's not in my path.

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb oh, yesod

how did you install yesod? cabal install yesod?

dylanribb

cabal install yesod-platform

user41796

@AJHenderson I would agree. It's better to have the tooling prevent the mistake to begin with than to rely upon tribal lore. But tribal lore can be very effective if clearly communicated.

Jimmy Hoffa

aye

I've seen similar behaviour. That's the thing I hate about *nix these days, everything goes into very distro specific places and things, I think you might be better using apt-get to install the yesod stuff

anything not installed by the distros installer tends to not fit well, modern *nix is not much for extensibility like it's old counterpart...

dylanribb

5:04 PM

@JimmyHoffa Only problem is that I'm on a Mac.

I WISH I had access to apt on this machine.

Jimmy Hoffa

@dylanribb oh, I don't know anything about that then.

as for yesod's install location, find cabal's binary

user41796

@JimmyHoffa once you drop into terminal, a mac is (almost) no different from a standard *NIX box

Jimmy Hoffa

you'll likely find cabals packages there

AJ Henderson

@GlenH7 well we even go beyond that with code verification. Our version control system has custom hooks that reject commits and builds that don't match standards or violate established design rules

dylanribb

Found it.

It's in ~/Library/Haskell/bin/yesod

Jimmy Hoffa

5:05 PM

@GlenH7 which is why it's the only thing I ever manage to do when I get my hands on a mac

open the terminal and treat it like *nix, other then that I can't find any damn thing in that OS

user41796

@AJHenderson that's a slick way of enforcing the rules.

AJ Henderson

so a dev has to be particularly creative to commit code violating most of our rules that we can define clearly

user41796

@AJHenderson sounds like a challenge to me....

AJ Henderson

but it can be frustrating if they forget and make an inherently flawed design from an early point

@GlenH7 depends on how thorough the rules are. Some can be bypassed by mal-formatting

particularly the stylecop rules

fxcop are a little harder to sneak around

user41796

All of our rules are enforced by manual inspection, so they're easier to sneak around.

dylanribb

5:22 PM

Well, nevermind. I guess I'll try Snap instead.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:35 PM

@dylanribb Yesod is pretty nice, but getting the initial yesod setup can be a touch annoying

dylanribb

@JimmyHoffa Yeah, the lack of gcc in Mac OS X is making things complicated.

I'm not even sure if Haskell is the right tool for this job but I thought I'd give it a shot.

user55340

Btw, @JimmyHoffa I got the lytro last night. Haven't taken anything with it yet though. pictures.lytro.com/shagie

user41796

@MichaelT You didn't skip work to go take pictures? How disappointing. What's the point of having new toys if you don't play hooky from work. :-)

user55340

@GlenH7 Its not quite picturesque out currently.

user55340

(dreary drizzle day)

user41796

5:40 PM

same here. thunderstorms on the horizon

user55340

The presentation of the device is very Apple like. When opening the box it felt like an iPhone in presentation.

user41796

@MichaelT Seems to be a growing trend.

user55340

@GlenH7 Its something that doesn't add too much to the cost but gives the apperance of "we care about our product"

user55340

They're also trying for the a similar high end early adopter with expensive toys market that the original iPhone had.

user41796

which in turn helps cultivate an increased perception of satisfaction with the product

user55340

5:44 PM

(they've also got an iOS app for it - no android app for it yet)

dylanribb

The Lytro looks pretty neat.

Want.

user41796

@dylanribb click. click. click. buy.

user55340

The camera creates a wireless hotspot that the app then can connect to and pull off the camera wirelessly.

user55340

Also, since its gotten the 3d information about the scene, it can do the red/cyan image for 3d.

user55340

The depth of field on it is rather shallow - by intent. Beyond the f/2.0 lens (which is reasonably fast) the sensor is almost the entire size of the of the camera - its not the size of the fingernail, its larger than a 35mm frame - larger frame = shallower depth of field at same fstop and focal length.

dylanribb

5:51 PM

Wow, I am in way over my head on this project. Crap.

Thomas Owens

...there's a third edition of peopleware?

user41796

Amazon one-boxes are too big

Robert Harvey

Amazon boxes are too big generally.

Thomas Owens

I saw it on Amazon. I have the second edition. I'm curious what the diff is.

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