The Whiteboard

Ampt

2:08 AM

@WorldEngineer Wait, so vacation is different than PTO?

@WorldEngineer A completely empty inbox. While great in idea, I just can never make it work

everything that is actionable has been acted upon and is waiting for response, or is deleted

essentially you try and push the ball out of your court as quickly and efficiently as possible

user15026

I like the idea of it but I am a hoarder of information

Ampt

I dislike that it treats everything as high priority. It just feels impractical for me

sometimes if something isn't important enough it falls off the table, and that's OK

Hame

2:52 AM

Hei guys, I am interested in reading some materials about problem structuring and program design. That is, when you are given a problem, what are the best ways to break it down and design a program that will help you slove it?

Could you please provide some readings or videos or some material that you found useful? Thanks.

Ampt

Jul 23 at 16:34, by MichaelT

Read How to be a Programmer

great starting point

Hame

found it already

Ampt

it's a fairly comprehensive read as well, so you can expect to learn a lot

If you read that entire thing, you should have no problem solving the problem of finding more information :)

psr

@Ampt Divide inbox by priority? Occasionally review items to see if they get promoted to higher priority? Add field (if you can) saying when you should review that email by?

Ampt

@psr I do keep track of items that need to be acted upon, but the culture I'm in is rife with useless process and unnecessary additions to emails (CC ALL THE PEOPLE!!!!11!) which means that I get flooded with a stupid amount of information. If something isn't important enough to warrant a follow up, its usually (read almost always) not necessary and can safely be skipped

Hame

3:00 AM

@Ampt: on that link, it says at some point "A smart programmer can learn the basics adequately in two months and can improve from there.". What do you consider to be the basics?

Ampt

how much programming have you done

Hame

~1.5 years

no CS background

Ampt

professionally or recreationally

Hame

professionally for the past 1 year, but there is a catch: at first I was a C++ library developer (for 3 months) but then I got into porting (bad, bad, bad decision) so I really did not learn much while porting

Ampt

ok, then you should know "the basics" (variables, loops, maybe some object oriented concepts if you did OOP)

Congrats, you're halfway there

If you're looking for challenging problems: check out project euler

lots of very interesting, small problems to solve

Hame

3:08 AM

i also found project Euler, but it`s not what i am looking for right now. at the moment, i want to read/learn about the process of going from a program specification to how the program should be designed

any thoughts about this book: amazon.com/Simple-Program-Design-Approach-Edition/dp/1423901320 ?

user55340

3:20 AM

Just tossing this out there - if you have kids (or a niece or nephew of a reasonable age) who has access to an iPad with a camera: playosmo.com

user55340

My niece and nephew were playing with it this weekend (had Christmas early) and she was learning various letter sounds: (picture of a hat, and the letters are '_AT' on the screen... she gets the 'H' tile and puts it out there and gets feedback right away about it).

user55340

It was really quite neat... and then my niece was playing the 'newton' game where balls are dropping and trying to hit a target by drawing on a whiteboard... she was getting some problem solving challenges there.

user55340

It was also neat seeing her interact with her brother (she's 4.5, he's 3.1) with letter sounds.

user55340

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user55340

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user55340

3:35 AM

@Hame Haven't seen that one before... reviews are mixed on it. Its not on SfariBooksOnline so I can't give you any bits on how it reads, though that said once you go outside of the canonical books that are fairly well understood (K&R, SICP) and the like, it really becomes an issue of which writing style works for you.

user55340

Personally, I like Programming Pearls, though thats not so much about design... good book though.

user55340

amazon.com/Programming-Pearls-2nd-Edition-Bentley/dp/0201657880

user55340

Its is about design, but maybe not the big design issue you are asking about... and to an extent, thats something that comes with experience of doing it.

user55340

btw, @GlenH7 you familiar from your engineering studies on "tensegrity"?

user55340

Tensegrity

Tensegrity, tensional integrity or floating compression, is a structural principle based on the use of isolated components in compression inside a net of continuous tension, in such a way that the compressed members (usually bars or struts) do not touch each other and the prestressed tensioned members (usually cables or tendons) delineate the system spatially. The term tensegrity was coined by Buckminster Fuller in the 1960s as a portmanteau of "tensional integrity". The other denomination of tensegrity, floating compression, was used mainly by Kenneth Snelson. == Concept == Tensegrity structures...

user55340

3:39 AM

user55340

Look closely - there are linear actuators there.

user55340

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Hame

@MichaelT thanks, any guidance is good.

there is a question on stackoverflow about what books a programmer should read, but the list is so long that i don`t know what to pick up :)

user55340

Every programmer should read TAOCP. Or at least try to.

user55340

The Art of Computer Programming

The Art of Computer Programming (sometimes known by its initials TAOCP) is a comprehensive monograph written by Donald Knuth that covers many kinds of programming algorithms and their analysis. Knuth began the project, originally conceived as a single book with twelve chapters, in 1962. The first three of what was then expected to be a seven-volume set were published in 1968, 1969, and 1973. The first installment of Volume 4 (a paperback fascicle) was published in 2005. The hardback volume 4A was published in 2011. Additional fascicle installments are planned for release approximately biannually...

user55340

3:48 AM

user55340

Though thats also like saying "Every mathematician should read Euclid's Elements" - its a huge undertaking and much of it isn't needed to understand at that level

user55340

Though its not so much "you will learn XYZ" when you read those, but rather "by reading these, you will have a firm foundation upon which to build other understandings"

whatsisname

i wonder if he will finish 4B before he kicks the bucket

Hame

I know Knuth, Sedgewick mentions him a lot in his Algorithms course

user55340

3:52 AM

Knuth's pipe organ in his house.

Ampt

@whatsisname lol haven't you read? Part 4 is a 3 parter

user55340

The house was built to fit the organ.

user55340

www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/organ.html

whatsisname

@Ampt: he's not going to get to C if he dies before B is completed, I think

user55340

He's 76 now... but, @Ampt Knuth was born in Milwaukee. Go Wisconsin!

Ampt

4:01 AM

@whatsisname I'm saying that I don't think it's humanly possible for him to finish the set, whether B is completed or not. It will never be complete

Just like game of thrones.....

enderland

2:48 PM

@Ampt you need a system to make it work

@Ampt if you can easily skip things then you can just skip them and archive/delete them in the same amount of time it takes you to see it, and realize, "oh hey this isn't important!"

MetaFight

4:56 PM

someone give me 210 rep for xmas, that way I can finally use the 3k review queues.

alternatively, I could try to be insightful.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MetaFight insight is hard, just grab a sharpie and draw 3k over the rep on your screen and see if you can get into the review queue that way

MetaFight

oooh, good idea!

Thanks Jimm3ky Hoffa! It's not working yet, but I'm sure it'll kick in soon.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MetaFight it's just the caching Me10kight, it's been working for me for a good long while now

MetaFight

dang, you're right, a sharpie wouldn't simply move existing characters to the right. doh.

enderland

5:12 PM

But I wanna job!

Ha

Jimmy Hoffa

1

Q: How do you unit test a function that clears properties?

I have a very common function that I have always unit tested in the same way, but I'm wondering if there is a better solution or if it's even possible a code smell is involved. It seems like a very simple case but I have a function that clears the properties of the object. Working in JavaScript, ...

unit-testing

^-- answer is: Write 2 unit tests, one that asserts each of the things the method does. The benefit is that if one of the things it does breaks only one unit test will break and you'll know exactly which thing in the behaviour was broken by some maintenance

user41796

@enderland Yeah, I'm just left with negative thoughts...

Jimmy Hoffa

That's the evangelical approach anyway of "one assertion per unit test" -> that's how you apply it to methods with multiple actions and the claimed benefit of using one assertion per unit test (each unit test asserts one thing so if it fails you know which one thing in your code was broken rather than if the test asserted multiple things)

@MetaFight Go write that answer for free rep if you like. I don't feel like writing it up and

enderland

enderland is tempted to snipe that answer

MetaFight

I was thinking of writing essentially that same answer earlier, but I was too lazy to actually spend the time articulating my thoughts. Man... winter turns me into a sloth!

enderland

5:19 PM

SE has helped my ability to write short blurbs

user41796

@MetaFight Just copy & paste Jimmy's answer... :-)

MetaFight

lol. I think I'll just earn those rep points myself. I can imagine a future where, somehow, somebody discovers I'm an SE fraud and I get fire from my job for it.

I think I've been watching too much Suits lately.

enderland

Nah they'll fire you for chatting during work ;)

0

A: How do you unit test a function that clears properties?

An alternative approach is two tests, one for each component of your reset function. Or more, if you have more. These would be pretty simple to create. A key point of tests is to know what is failing when something fails. If you test the "reset" method and it fails you want to know what failed. ...

Jimmy Hoffa

...because of the dogma that unit tests should only have 1 assertion - that's a bit over the top in my opinion. I'd say that unit test should - preferably - only have assertions that verify one type, or one aspect of behavior (and not just everything one could think of). It ensures that one bug doesn't hide other bugs. But it doesn't mean that there must be literally one assertion per test and no more. — Konrad Morawski 3 hours ago

5 upvotes for anti-discipline tripe. People are really good at convincing themselves that what they want to do is the right thing to do.

enderland

Hah. It's actually good for me to explain some of this too as now that I work with actual software stuff understanding principles/etc is meaningful

Jimmy Hoffa

5:32 PM

Not saying I agree with puritanical TDD dogma, but it irritates me how people all agree with eachother in a circle jerk of anti-logic using social consensus to outweigh critical thought

They do that with so many things. Around here I've heard people joking about "scrum" so much and how everybody knows better than to follow the principles and concepts laid out in it - which is a completely empty argument only validated by everybody agreeing because they want it to be true and not because they have any substance in their statements

enderland

Isn't that how the internet everywhere is though?

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland yes, it just bugs me that software engineers - 40-hour-a-week creaters of pure logic - wouldn't just draw sharpie over things they don't want to logically analyze

psr

@JimmyHoffa What would a good argument pro or anti scrum look like? There is almost no reasonable evidence either way, and a remotely decent scientific study is extremely hard to do.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr you can postulate, use reason instead of just intimating social convergence to defrock the whole thought without even looking at it

enderland

A key missing piece from most internet arguments is "this is what I believe and why"

Jimmy Hoffa

5:43 PM

just bugs me. Like when I heard a colleague the other day say "You know... I've never seen anyone really reuse code, so I think reusable code is a myth" which is outright specious reasoning "I've never seen it, so it can't exist". You'd think people who do as much logic as we do would see that line of thought for what it is, but they just draw a blind spot over the part of their brain that would look at it plainly because they want to think that, it makes things easier for them

(his statement was made to excuse why he wasn't bothering to write reusable code)

psr

@JimmyHoffa I've never seen anyone use reason instead of just going off of sociology, therefore it can't happen.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr I've never seen you, therefore you don't exist.

psr

@JimmyHoffa That's actually correct.

Jimmy Hoffa

where does that leave blind people? They don't see themselves so they can't exist but other people can... they're like a walking shrodingers cat

psr

The TDD discussion could use something like "The goal is to minimize your expected time. Deciding whether to write the tests should be based on your best guess as to whether it will save more time than it takes to write."

@JimmyHoffa Though you are talking to me, so what does that say about you?

Jimmy Hoffa

5:50 PM

@psr so repwhore it. It's at least a reasoned argument, beats the hell out of "heh TDD be the dumbz, amiright?" like that commenter

gnat

6:08 PM

0

Q: Where I should ask career guidance questions.?

Where can I ask question like how should I choose a career and when, what kind of education I should take to become a project manager or a software engineer.?