The Whiteboard

12:55 AM

@MichaelT finished the video, my head is now spinning trying to figure out how we will do everything with only single assignments

enderland

hmmm. I caved and told my expected salary range to someone. I feel I should go off in shame

Matt Giltaji

@enderland its not that big of a deal

just stick to it

I caved and took a salary cut to make up the rest in an annual bonus, and I really regret that

enderland

Nah the range was pretty large

I only told them anything because she wanted a good feel for that and I guess my current market range is ok

It's almost always better to not give a number though :P

Matt Giltaji

@enderland When I'm looking for people I just flat out tell them the number

this is going to pay $x, if that doesn't work for you, we can move on and both of us can save time

enderland

@MattGiltaji Yah, well, there are minimal situations where it's in your interest as a candidate to tell a number

Trick is many times there are many ways to get to a number ;) "oh we have software dev 1, 2, 3 with different ranges!"

etc

Matt Giltaji

1:02 AM

@enderland I was speaking more as hiring person than candidate

enderland

@MattGiltaji Ahhh

Matt Giltaji

TBH, all the secret salary stuff bothers me

we have a certain budget because the role is expected to provide a certain return on that budget

so just use it

enderland

you don't even get a range?

Matt Giltaji

@enderland the budget is supposedly a range, but the amount comes out of thin air

instead of some sort of market research for similar roles or w/e

enderland

Magix

user15026

1:21 AM

I am scared to ever get a job that is salary based because that means I have to judge my own worth - I am used to hourly where they just tell me "you get this"

Matt Giltaji

@AshleyNunn hourly is nice because you have more control over how much you earn. new expense coming up, work some OT. Salaried you still get the OT but nothing extra

so it makes for easier financial planning, but less flexibility

user15026

@MattGiltaji unless you're not allowed any OT, like me

Matt Giltaji

@AshleyNunn :(

enderland

Overtime is a mixed blessing

Matt Giltaji

that sucks, my places have all been ok with a slight amount of OT. Supervisor would need to approve, but it was not a huge pain to get approved

enderland

1:34 AM

Imn currently salaried but can get overtime too..

user15026

I dont super mind, current contract is paying me pretty dang well

user15026

(not that I super want to stay in a call center environment, but I think my blog made that evident :P)

Matt Giltaji

@AshleyNunn TBH being happy with your pay is the more important thing

user15026

It feeds me and my cat and keeps us warm and dry and allows me to see @WorldEngineer sometimes without needing the Internet so I think that is pretty good

user15026

(I am very used to being poor, so this is new and fascinating)

psr

1:49 AM

@AshleyNunn I read it and it was well written, but - what do you actually want to do?

user15026

@psr Thanks. I just kept dumping words out of my brain.

psr

@AshleyNunn What kind of career are you looking for?

user15026

Sorry, trying to articulate that, one moment while I jump start my brain.

user20683

@AshleyNunn Something like hands on crisis management for computer networks is my understanding

psr

distributed systems therapist?

(trying to tie it in to the SE moderator experience)

user15026

1:58 AM

@psr Trying to tie anything I do/have done with anything else gets ridiculous fast (been a coffee server, a PSW, gambling site support, and now dental insurance call center rep, also did some time as a library assistant thing. Have an english degree, a specialization in digital humanities, and a PSW certification. It....took me a while to decide what I wanted....)

user15026

I know what I am going to study to shape that (A+, then CCENT, then...something. Either CCNA Routing and Switching, or Security, perhaps both if I am really bored. I like knowing stuff.)

Matt Giltaji

@AshleyNunn those certs get expensive pretty fast. You'll probably want to stick to one and go deeper into it rather than shallow across all of them

user15026

@MattGiltaji Oh, I know they are money. A+ is to get me into tech, CCENT is because it starts the whole CCNA stuff and the ICND1 100-101 is required for....almost every other CCNA thing. Mind you, I do the A+ and someone hires me to do something sufficiently interesting, and this changes.

user15026

I figure it is an order of magnitude cheaper than a tech school certificate and two orders of magnitude cheaper than yet another degree thing (especially because there is a lot of the degree stuff I don't want to touch, I don't want something that breadth-y again)

user15026

(speaking, at the moment, of the $400 ish the two a+ tests cost)

Matt Giltaji

2:04 AM

@AshleyNunn the nice thing about those network certs is that they are pretty portable across companies. My network admin tells me that once you hit a certain tier (of course I forgot which one), the cert is what gets you in the door and the rest of your resume is not really important

not to say you shouldn't have a nice resume too, but you get the idea

user15026

@MattGiltaji I was talking to one of the deskside techs at work and he said that the A+ gets me in, the CCENT/CCNA opens any door

Matt Giltaji

@AshleyNunn that's probably it then

user15026

@MattGiltaji So that's kinda where I am at in terms of plans. Then I apply to like tech support/helldesk stuff with the A+, try not to kill anyone, and work on the CCENT. :D

user15026

(Sorry for all my rambling. I just am excited to do things I actually like.)

user55340

2:23 AM

@AshleyNunn and its not easy with all these cynical types in chat.

user15026

@MichaelT Oh, you guys are like a bajillion times more supportive than I've experienced lately, admitting I am doing this thing.

user55340

At least its not the water cooler where all the answers to the questions are "just quit".

user15026

(Let's just say my other chat room is less than stellar about this.)

enderland

:)

user55340

> You: I've got a great job!
Water cooler: Just quit.

psr

2:45 AM

Perhaps this isn't an ideal juxtaposition, but did anyone hear about the Barbie programmer doll? It's actually even worse than you would imagine.

@AshleyNunn Finally looked up A+ , that's nice. I wonder why more people don't do that - tech is enough of a meritocracy that you can somewhat forgo a specific degree and avoid a lot of silliness that many jobs require.

I almost feel like I should study for the A+, looking it up reminds me of an area of weakness for me. I didn't get to development via IT and there is a lot of it that I ought to know but don't.

user15026

@psr I think because there is this sort of elitist idea that you can't be good at tech without a university degree and stuff, so there is this expectation and pressure to go do it that way, and also doing it my way means that you have to do it on your own, there's no impetus to study or anything short of me making myself do it (which I do)

psr

@AshleyNunn I feel like ultimately university is the same way anyway, and it's a huge difference in $. Plus later in their career everyone has to be able to learn things outside of university anyway.

user15026

@psr At this point, I am looking at it as well, I am 27, another 4 year undergrad would mean twice the debt and put me even later to getting to do what I want

user55340

3:03 AM

@gnat do you remember who user39685 was? (there's a naming question on MSO and I went to see what I wrote about it and saw the deleted account icon in meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/a/6584 )

gnat

4:57 AM

@MichaelT probably Matt Fenwick - meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/2636/…

user55340

@gnat yep. Looks that way.

user55340

I was fairly sure it was a Mat* name, but I couldn't quite remember... and the only name that rang a bell was that of Mathew Foscarini (who is still a somewhat active member)

Robert Harvey

0

Q: Too many parameters to data processing class constructor

I have a conceptually simple application: data comes in as small encrypted packets, a limited amount of processing is done, they're stored in the database, and a reply packet might be encrypted and sent. Packets arrive at a rate in the kilohertz to low megahertz range. My current design has a few...

Turns out he has a throughput problem... Needs to process 1 million packets per second.

He already has a working solution on a 16 core machine, but his company wants to move it to the cloud, and wonders why it won't work there.

FFS.

Discussion between Robert Harvey and Ӎσᶎ

Imported from a comment discussion on programmers.stackexchang...

maple_shaft

12:35 PM

@MichaelT In regards to your comment, "We are artists..." I have to disagree. We are closer to craftsmen than true artists. There are rigorous standards formulas and conventions that we should abide by from time to time, but every now and then we can put some creative flair into something we build.

Like a fine furniture maker, a master has been around the block and has experience doing just about any task and knows the tricks and traps. That person gets joy from doing something unique and challenging and mentoring juniors in the trade

With art, it really is anything goes. A craft on the other hand is the perfect blend of practical guidelines rules and specifications, and artistic expression

Ampt

1:31 PM

@enderland I've always heard that he who speaks first loses in salary negotiations. But it's also not the end of the world :)

@MattGiltaji Or unless your salaried and exempt, like me :)

mwahahahaha

enderland

2:09 PM

@Ampt it depends on a lot of factors honestly

in most cases yeah

if you have a good reason to expect you will be taking a pay cut you sometimes can be better off saying it

@Ampt yeah that's how I am too. It's pretty much best of all worlds :)

Yannis Rizos

0

A: Should Programmers participate in Winter Bash 2014?

Devil's Advocate post... NO HATS!!!

^^^ Flagged (vlq). Some people really hate fun.

maple_shaft

@YannisRizos I wonder how many flags I get before I am perma-banned at Meta?

Ampt

but.. it's fun hating on the person who's fun hating so...

they really like fun?

I'm gonna guess that people are casting them in jest

enderland

can you get banned there @maple_shaft if you are a mod?

Yannis Rizos

@Ampt That's what I thought at first, but they could have used a funny custom flag instead of the boring vlq one...

anyway, declined...

ratchet freak

2:17 PM

proper handling of those flags is to decline them

Yannis Rizos

@maple_shaft You won't get banned. You may get a special hat though.

enderland

hats should run all of december. I'm going to be gone most of that time frame and can't farm rep on SE to get hats :(

Yannis Rizos

@enderland Then you should decline SE's invitation for hats on The Workplace. If you don't get hats, noone gets hats /straight out of the evil mod's manual

enderland

is there a hat for declining hats for a site, that'd be legit

the grinch or something.

Yannis Rizos

14

Q: The Most Wonderous Hall of Hats

How about we create some pages of past leaderboards for the Winterbash Hat event? It would be a permanent archive so we could always view the past stats for Winterbash (since it now seems like it will be an ongoing event). It would be good for posterity and the history of the community, and g...

feature-request archive winterbash

user55340

2:35 PM

Interview on monday... whee!

user55340

@maple_shaft I'll agree to that... its more the expectation that I was referring to there... or how people see themselves in some cases. Carpenter is a much better analogy once one gets into it.

user55340

(and you should commit to the woodworking proposal)

maple_shaft

@MichaelT I have been known to dabble from time to time in the wood working thing, but it is a time consuming hobby and not one I think I could even ask good questions on

ratchet freak

@maple_shaft but could you answer some?

maple_shaft

I have crap tools for it, and honestly besides building my deck two years ago I haven't done much carpentry

yeah I could

I can tell you how to frame a wall

what is a jack stud, cripple stud, etc...

ratchet freak

2:44 PM

how to make things not square

maple_shaft

yeah I can tell you how to square a structure

how to fix or cover up mistakes

user55340

struct Square {
int width;
int height;
}

maple_shaft

but I would need to look up stuff since it has been so long for me

I certainly wouldn't know how to do something complicated like furniture

user55340

@maple_shaft you could ask about breadboards... or repairing ikea stuff...

maple_shaft

biscuits wood glue, router bits for nice edges, staining yeah but if you told me to build a work bench I would probably not know where to start, and I would be missing many of the tools

I am certainly not an expert. More of a casual amateur more fit to ask questions than answer them

and I have no projects right now with my family and work. I have no questions to ask

I take Area51 pretty seriously. If I can't even think of good questions to ask then I wouldn't commit because I take it seriously

enderland

3:03 PM

I didn't realize it was a binding type of committment until I accidentally committed to three sites and couldn't commit again...

user55340

So yea... whee... (more awake now). Got a phone call at 8:30 (which is 'early' if you don't have to get up at any given time) from the HR person who realized she had the 'would you be interested in an interview' still in draft from a week ago.

user55340

So, quick call the candidate (me) and set up an interview time for Monday (and I just realized today is Friday)

enderland

@MichaelT lol those are the best

"hello? I just woke up... who is this... oh wait this is a real convo with meaningful implications?!"

user55340

Yep. Also means I need to be out the door at 7am on Monday morning.

enderland

that'll be rough

maybe

user55340

3:11 PM

It gives me lots of fudge time on the way (stop at McD's for a biscuit and OJ to go).

user55340

The drive is about 3h, I'm giving myself 4 just incase road conditions are less than optimal.

user55340

Fun physics question:

user55340

20

Q: How much air needs to be displaced to generate an audible sound?

I'm reading a book where in one scene a wizard/alchemist teleports a scroll after reading. He folded the parchment carefully and muttered a single cantrip. The note vanished with a small plop of displaced air, joining the others in a safe place. That made me wonder, how much air would neede...

acoustics air displacement

enderland

3h? so you'd be relocating then...

or going insane, I guess :)

user55340

@enderland Yep. My family lives down there. Short term relocation is trivial. Long term has some other options with it.

enderland

3:15 PM

win!

that's... decidedly less win

user55340

@enderland The other options in that situation are less ideal.

enderland

Yeah, no joke. that sort of thing is pure hell when you have stuff like houses/kids... :(

user41796

3:38 PM

@YannisRizos For the record, I didn't flag that. My comment to that effect was a joke.

ratchet freak

is annoyed that he can't flag all the removed comments as spam

user55340

@ratchetfreak they'd show up as 'removed' too.

ratchet freak

but the people doing the spam would get kicked

user55340

so... anyways... code... When writing that "why does everyone hate php" answer... found this fun bit.

user55340

eval.in/224353

user55340

3:42 PM

var_dump(new DateTime('2014-11-31 - 1 month'));

user55340

-1 month is always 30 days.

user55340

The value there is November 1st... not October 31st.

ratchet freak

but november 31 doesn't exist

user55340

var_dump(new DateTime('2014-02-28 - 1 month'));
# string(26) "2014-01-28 00:00:00.000000"

ratchet freak

so the date there is Dec 1

user55340

3:44 PM

var_dump(new DateTime('2014-10-31 - 1 month'));
# string(26) "2014-10-01 00:00:00.000000"

enderland

:\

user41796

Better to spend a few hundred ahead of time and gain some valuable conversations than to potentially spend thousands years down the road.

user55340

On our meta... ChrisF adding more guidance to cross site dups

enderland

4:22 PM

so I had a "phone interview" yesterday for an automation position, the only technical question was "how would you write a function which takes an array of integers and returns the sum"

low standards much?

user55340

I'd point out that phone interviews may often be of the "make sure the answer is one that the HR person an understand"

enderland

nah this was the manager for the position, I think

I kinda felt like it was a trick question honestly

user55340

^HR person^Manager

user55340

> The way you would explain something to a 13 year old is different than the way you would explain it to your grandfather or a manager Ok, maybe the manager and the 13 year old would get the same explanation.

user55340

22

A: How do I explain ${something} to ${someone}?

Problems So many targets... The first problem with these questions is that there are so many possible audiences. How do you explain pointers to a 13 year old. How do you explain the internet to your grandfather? How do you explain testing to a manager who has pointy hair? The way you would e...

enderland

4:25 PM

This company also very much has a "are you smart? intelligent? willing/able to learn? if so we're going to hire you" attitude more than "what skillz you have"

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT you say ${something} to ${them}

easy

korima

Hello guys!

Jimmy Hoffa

amazon.com/Hounded-two-bonus-short-stories-ebook/dp/B004J4WN0I

korima

:P

Anybody can help about some doubts with controllers and services?

Jimmy Hoffa

4:43 PM

these guys service controllers

user55340

5:02 PM

@korima the key thing to do here is ask away. While we're often here if there's no question to see and talk about, we'll just continue to talk about other things (or do other things).

user55340

5:18 PM

@AshleyNunn recall that Frozen coding bit from last night? Some (good) fallout from it: "Barbie: I Can Be a Computer Engineer" Pulled From Amazon (on /.)

user55340

>
Back in 2010, Computer Engineer Barbie was released. Now, with the attention brought to the Frozen themed programming game from Disney and Code.org, unwanted attention has been given to the surprisingly real book "Barbie: I Can Be a Computer Engineer". So much so, that Mattel has pulled the book from Amazon. The book shows Barbie attempting to write a computer game. However, instead of writing the code, she enlists two boys to write the code as she just does the design. She then proceeds to infect her computer and her sister's computer with a virus and must enlist the boys to fix that for…

enderland

@MichaelT there will also be lots of conversation topics going on at the same time, too

user55340

If someone says something interesting in chat, it is typically addressed at some point. There may be other interesting things being said as it is addressed... but it gets there. Asking about asking isn't that interesting to draw people into the discussion immediately.

enderland

@MichaelT I have a friend who just interviewed at Epic...

user55340

@enderland it can be a good place... though one needs to watch out for the 'burn them out and let them leave'

Jimmy Hoffa

5:25 PM

...implementing fmap seperate from bind will be handy so I can use it in lift since I'm going to need a lift anyway....

I'll get this api tied on

user55340

5:38 PM

1

Q: Why is PHP so hated?

Lately I've been coming across several jokes and comics about how apparently awful PHP is. As a complete ignorant of the language, why is this? Is it my own perception or is this the overall general feeling on the programming community?

php

user55340

Why put on hold? This could also easily be a conceptual question — Herr K 11 hours ago

user55340

@HerrK the only way that it can be answered (mine included) is that of opinions as to why you think that php sucks. It also would lead to non-productive discussions (it sucks! no it doesn't! Java sucks just as much!). The question doesn't optimize for the good answers as it is currently written (this doesn't mean a good answer can't be written). As an aside, a good place to ask discussiony and opinion questions is that of Programmers Chat. It would be especially useful to chat with our own Yannis about php and its perceptions in the industry. — MichaelT 32 secs ago

user55340

Just in case @YannisRizos wants to explain more about it or needs some context for the "why are people asking me about php?"

user55340

(I also feel kind of guilty about an enlightened badge on a question I helped close with an answer that really says "php sucks")

user55340

6:02 PM

... I continue my crusade against cargo cult pattern processes:

user55340

@MichaelT Thank You for your answer. the discussion " Are design patterns essential for good code?" is really helpful ! — Mohamed Amjad LASRI 3 mins ago

enderland

Ampt

6:18 PM

Interview went well I thought... we'll see what they think

I'm nervous because it was short: only like a half hour, but it was also just a phone screening

user55340

@Ampt yea! everyone's interviewing.

enderland

wait @Ampt interviewed too? How did I miss this

user55340

@enderland Looking at the career options within the org.

enderland

Ahhh. k

Ampt

It was for a client role. my job is basically a non-stop series of trying to get another job... makes for interesting situations

enderland

6:20 PM

HEY ME TOO

psr

@MichaelT I did talk to YannisRizos about this some time ago, though not exactly the same question: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/4302018#4302018

user55340

I'm still of the "everyone else's code sucks" approach.

Jimmy Hoffa

6:38 PM

@Ampt what did it sound like the role was? Front end SEO/UX?

Jimmy Hoffa

7:17 PM

every once in a while, a truth table really is the best damned way to figure out what your conditions are doing vs should be doing

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Ever dig into karnough maps?

Matt Giltaji

@MichaelT thats just a fancy way of saying truth table :p

user55340

@MattGiltaji Its more than that. Its "Here's a truth table - what is the simplest set of conditions that describes it?"

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT of course, I love terrestrial communication

Matt Giltaji

@MichaelT oh with the don't cares and all? ya, EE was fun

user55340

7:21 PM

@MattGiltaji yep. Thats the one. I've used it in the past when I had some code that was this great mess of conditions and made it into a few, more elegant, conditions based on that.

user55340

Granted, the logic was a bit harder to change after that - included the truth table and the map in the code documentation so that the next person can pull that out, make the changes, and recalculate the map more quickly.

Matt Giltaji

@MichaelT yeah, I've used that to simplify a huge mega rule to determine permissions on states in a workflow

user55340

Karnaugh map

The Karnaugh map, also known as the K-map, is a method to simplify boolean algebra expressions. Maurice Karnaugh introduced it in 1953 as a refinement of Edward Veitch's 1952 Veitch diagram. The Karnaugh map reduces the need for extensive calculations by taking advantage of humans' pattern-recognition capability. It also permits the rapid identification and elimination of potential race conditions. The required boolean results are transferred from a truth table onto a two-dimensional grid where the cells are ordered in Gray code, and each cell position represents one combination of input conditions...

Jimmy Hoffa

haha

told you, keep that glossy eyed optimism and you'll be management in no time ;P

user55340

@JimmyHoffa not so sure... at this point, I'd say that @Ampt is too competent to become management.

Jimmy Hoffa

7:26 PM

@MichaelT yeah but his face is too young for people to know that

user55340

Now, if we properly continue with the alcohol induced dementia... we might get him to become management material.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa that's what the beard is for

user55340

@Ampt just don't be one of those hipsters who shaves it off at the end of No Shave November.

Ampt

I hadn't been participating but I guess I am now...

psr

@Ampt I knew someone who died his temples grey when applying for management positions at a young age.

(didn't work though)

Ampt

7:41 PM

apparently I got

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

2

got it*

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt be a kind new overlord

Ampt

I'm an advisor more than an overlord I'm thinking

Matt Giltaji

@Ampt gratz

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt ah, what is your advice herr overlord?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa we need to use a holistic approach to solving the client's needs. Look at all aspects of what the business is and about and how to use the proper synergy to shift them to a new paradigm of thinking about the web.

Ampt

7:48 PM

@MichaelT .... you may not be far off

user55340

@Ampt You can use that, but I'll charge royalties.

Matt Giltaji

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt go read that infographic I linked earlier real closely, it looks to have all the marketing-speak you'll need to memorize to have sufficient buzzword score

psr

@MichaelT Thinking about the cloud. The web is so small data.

user55340

@psr addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/…

Ampt

7:56 PM

@MichaelT Do you accept corporate cards?

user55340

@Ampt without limit.

Ampt

@MattGiltaji I represent that statement

Also, Thank you.

@JimmyHoffa Uh... eat... more.. ice cream?

I kinda feel like I just top-decked the "Bank Error in your Favor" card in Monopoly

user41796

8:13 PM

@Ampt Soooooo.... That can be a tough question to answer. Your appearance is definitely one item to think through. Surprisingly, it will buy you the benefit of the doubt in some circumstances.

Ampt

Yeah.. that's definitely going to need to be something I bring up with the guy leading me on all this

user41796

The trick is to figure out what most folk are wearing and shoot for a notch just above the average

Ampt

sigh I guess I better put all my jeans away

user41796

Client expectations can play a huge part. Some clients out in AZ could care less if you show up in jeans or shorts. Other clients, like insurance firms near major cities may have higher expectations.

user41796

finance firms are generally the snootiest from that perspective.

user41796

8:16 PM

ties would likely be overkill, but the time I consulted with a smaller life insurance firm it wouldn't have been completely out of line.

Ampt

@GlenH7 Yeah, but a suit jacket might be on-par

I own like.. one suit.

user41796

wouldn't rule that out at all, no

user41796

jos bank runs good sales on a regular basis

Ampt

@GlenH7 you know there's actually one of those in the basement

user41796

lands end has some really nice business casual stuff from that point of view, be sure to check their sale section

user41796

8:19 PM

@Ampt The trick with them is to subscribe to their ~~spam~~ email list and watch the sales

Ampt

Yeah.. especially considering that I'm not sure this comes with any sort of immediate raise... I'm thinking that by doing this well, I'll have a lot more leverage at negotiations next year. Is that unwise?

user41796

And never buy it from there if it isn't on sale...

user41796

@Ampt nah, pretty spot on

user41796

this is likely a "here's your opportunity, prove your value" and then they'll reward you if you do well.

Ampt

That's exactly what I'm thinking

kinda feels like I just got launched into the air to see if I can fly.

user41796

8:20 PM

Yep

user41796

The trick is to figure out what happens if you flub.

user41796

At some firms, you're essentially gone at that point. At others, they're far more forgiving. Also depends upon how badly you flub

Ampt

... True that I suppose

user41796

Key to a successful career is to always keep that in the back of your mind

user41796

BTW, the best phrase to learn when working with a team as the architect: "Okay, so you've explained the problem. Now, how do we solve it?" And then STFU so you can listen to what they have to say.

Ampt

8:28 PM

Honestly I'm guessing I'm psyching myself out more than anything. I'll probably show up day one and they'll have me stapling papers together

user41796

Quite likely yes

user41796

If I had to guess, you're going to have a direct, client facing role and your primary duties are to translate client requirements for the technical team.

user41796

Key skills for that are an ability to listen and to elicit requirements that focus on the what and why but not necessarily the how.

user41796

And if you find that to be the case, hit up Thomas Owens for Systems Engineering references to help you with that requirements gathering portion.

user20683

8:42 PM

You'll also need the patience of a saint

user20683

Take it from someone who has done customer facing for 8 years

enderland

@Ampt "hey this looks like a letter telling @Ampt he isn't working here anymore... what's this all about?"

user41796

Black Friday reminds me of why I'm so glad to no longer work retail. And it's been about 2 decades. Oh, how I hated holiday shopping then. I always try to be nice to cashiers and floor personnel, but I try to be extra nice during end of year shopping.

Matt Giltaji

@GlenH7 so you take the specs from the customers to the engineers? Would you say you're a people person?

user41796

@MattGiltaji I used to live that life, and to a degree still do

user41796

8:48 PM

Generally more of an introvert than people person, but I've been fortunate to have lots of training in eliciting client requirements.

Matt Giltaji

whoosh

enderland

I'm an introvert who is too good at people stuff

Makes for rough times..

user41796

@enderland Can, yes

user41796

I'm disappointed that retailers continue to encroach on one of the few days that retail traditionally could take as a holiday

Ampt

@MattGiltaji I'M GOOD WITH PEOPLE!

user55340

8:51 PM

@GlenH7 (and to think... I'm applying for a state job...)

user41796

And tbh, if they kept everything to on-line shopping then it wouldn't be such a big deal. Computers don't care. But making people go in to work on what should have been a day of rest for them ....

user55340

"What? Columbus day?"

user41796

State and Federal gigs generally nail the holiday thing quite nicely.

Ampt

@MichaelT happy 216th day of the year!

user55340

When I was at Taos, they had some funky vacation policies as a contractor. We were salaried rather than hourly... and had vacations. Any day the client had off, you have off too. Sun had the entire two weeks that touched Christmas and New Years off. People really liked getting sun contracts in December.

user55340

8:54 PM

(it was easier and cheaper to shut down for two weeks - pay everyone holiday and boost morale than having cleaning crews, cafeteria crews, heating, electrical costs in combination for lost productivity from mismatched vacation schedules)

user20683

I get 3 weeks of vacation

user20683

2 weeks as part timer + 1 for 5 years of seniority

user55340

SGI had a "2 month sabbatical every 5 years".

user41796

@WorldEngineer That's pretty generous for part time

user55340

Caused a bit of a mess when they didn't consider the "all benefits" applied to Cray when SGI bought them. You've got people with 15 years there... "oh, I have 6 months of paid vacation starting right now?"

Ampt

8:59 PM

@MichaelT Time to hit the beach.

user55340

At Netapp, there was a guy who was a contractor pre IPO. was given the option to become a perm and get options... but he liked to do things of "I'm taking 3 months off" and management not being able to say "no". And he was good enough that they'd always want him back as soon as he wanted to (he was a deep debugger).

user20683

@GlenH7 Just out of curiosity, what would a typical masters thesis for ME look like?

Discussion between Robert Harvey and Ӎσᶎ

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