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user20683
12:00 AM
@MichaelT relax
 
user55340
 
user55340
Wanted to get the dup vote in there before people started answering that bike shed question.
 
user20683
@MichaelT Like I said, relax
 
user20683
:)
 
user55340
12:26 AM
I hate to say this but it appears that you might have a resource leak in your cup. If Consume throws an exception - say because you dribble - Dispose won't be called. Of course, in this case, that's probably a good idea because it really doesn't appear that your Cup should be implementing IDisposable. — tvanfosson 10 hours ago
 
user55340
 
user55340
Should this question be migrated to Code Review? Just checking ;-) — rolfl 6 hours ago
 
user55340
@enderland you've got some jokers over there.
 
@MichaelT we have much more fun over on workplace. Take this one
30
Q: My boss slapped me over a calculation error

user5115My boss slapped me because My Excel file had a calculational error. I fixed the error and saved the file to the network. If I complain, I guess I will just get fired. But I don't want to work for someone like this. How should I talk to her about it?

 
user55340
@MattGiltaji meh... the worker isn't having an affair with the boss's wife... boring.
 
user55340
1:09 AM
Yea! Self delete migration!
 
user55340
0
Q: Can I patent a communication protocol?

SFOIs it possible to patent a communication protocol, like HTTP or IMAP or SMTP, etc..? How about a sequence of REST APIs? If not, is there anyway to prevent others developing clone applications that will be compatible with my application? If yes, any pointers to a similar patent would be highly ...

 
user55340
 
user15026
@MattGiltaji Okay, as bad as my former job was, I never got slapped, so there is that
 
user55340
1:29 AM
I've updated the tag tag wiki. If anyone wants to look at it to see if I've missed anything or such...
 
user15026
New rule: The computer world puts ME in charge of naming things so that things have names that are not like thing, thing+, thing2, thing2+
3
 
user15026
Because that is just frustrating.
 
user55340
@gnat @AshleyNunn has volunteered to name All The Things. We should flag naming questions for migration to AskAshley.SE.
 
user15026
@MichaelT That would be the BEST SE site on the network hands down
3
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn I wonder what looks you'd get from Rob and the other community managers if you proposed that on Area51.
 
user15026
1:37 AM
@MichaelT Probably really confused ones and a quick closure, also laughter from the Bridge because they have a feedbot that throws all the newest A51 proposals in there (at least, they used to.)
 
user15026
Oh, only the recreation ones, it seems.
 
psr
@AshleyNunn Hands down because no slapping is allowed.
 
@AshleyNunn it might even make the meme wiki
 
user15026
@psr Exactly.
 
user15026
@MattGiltaji I don't think anything I've done has made that, and I am okay with that
 
user55340
1:41 AM
given this (mostly Chinese) (see also blog.edgecast.com/post/102918735991/the-great-firewall-of-china and news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8622331 ) I wonder if China would do something about stack exchange when this goes beta:
 
user55340
878
Chinese Emigration 移民海外

Proposed Q&A site for chinese people emigrating. | 帮助中国人讨论如何移民海外

Currently in commitment.

 
user55340
(short version of the news articles, china blocked a major CDN which screwed up large parts of the net for chinese web browsers... thinks like durpal updates, firefox updates, and such)
 
user15026
If they notice, I suspect it wouldn't last long.
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn MSO regularly gets posts about "problems accessing in china" because china blocks googleapis which hosts some javascript that SE uses...
 
user55340
it would be more along the line of "yea, we're just going to block all of Stack Exchange"
 
user15026
1:44 AM
@MichaelT Yeah, I suspect that would be the answer
 
user55340
38
Sailing

Proposed Q&A site for offshore and inshore sailors, shipwrights, racers, and cruisers.

Currently in definition.

 
user55340
What would I need to program on a boat?
 
user15026
@MichaelT creates
 
user15026
Because we need more of that
 
user55340
101
Q: What is the boat programming meme about?

Michael StumI remember some time ago there was some huge problem regarding some question that had something to do with a boat, and I think I missed that topic completely. As I see it being mentioned every now and then, I'd just like to know what it was about.

 
user15026
1:48 AM
@MichaelT Yep, thats the thing I was remembering
 
there is also this (NSFW language)
 
user15026
@MichaelT finished Celebromancy today, started the novella (Attack the Geek, I think it's called?)
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn yep.
 
user15026
It's good so far. Not far in, but that's okay. (Been reading a lot lately because of my commute)
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn Its a fun, easy to read series.
 
user15026
1:54 AM
@MichaelT Yeah, they were nice brain candy
 
user55340
16
Q: Feedback Requested: Stack Overflow design update

JinAs you can see, Meta.SO looks a bit different today. Over the years I've gotten a lot of requests to "redesign" Stack Overflow. I've always felt SO's site design had good usability and was very functional. However, I did and do agree, aesthetically, it could use some polish. Today's new Meta the...

 
user55340
3:20 AM
Whoo: Special number for close vote reviews:
 
user55340
 
3:36 AM
@MichaelT we get tons of jokers
 
user55340
3:56 AM
@enderland I'd be half tempted to take the code from the mug, stick it in a question on workplace (the mug works, but I keep getting unclean resource allocations) and migrate it over to code review though... just to see what they do with it.
 
user55340
5:18 AM
Here's one for @JimmyHoffa (languages and such) and @RobertHarvey (waxing poetic on days of old):
 
user55340
Robert Martin on Clojure is the new C
 
user55340
> Robert Martin argues that Clojure is a replacement for C with its simple syntax and minimal semantics.
 
user55340
(side bit for @GlenH7 - look at what laptop he's using)
 
user55340
(and @Ampt will recognize the IDE... look closely at the sidebar after he makes jokes about vi and emacs)
 
user55340
 
11:17 AM
0
Q: Should Programmers participate in Winter Bash 2014?

Thomas OwensWinter Bash is an annual event that can run on any Stack Exchange site that chooses to participate. Users earn “hats” for their gravatars by completing certain tasks (analogous to badges). Certain actions trigger the user receiving a hat, which their gravatar can “wear”. We track everyone’s progr...

 
Oh. I see. When was that turned on? Anyway, I'm off to a run.
 
 
3 hours later…
2:35 PM
 
user41796
@enderland I suppose we could burninate those... :-)
 
@GlenH7 fffff that's how I'm going to get 3k rep :P
 
3:20 PM
doh. not only did I answer a question which got closed but I'm getting trolled by the asker. bwaha.
 
3:41 PM
@StackExchange yes. I want hats!
@MichaelT I'm sure the people who's questions you closed would argue there's a correlation there.
 
user41796
@Ampt So go and vote up Thomas' question already...
 
Man. I want to rant and rave about our helpdesk. Seriously. AHHHHHHHHHHH.
 
@enderland dude... try dealing with Rackspace
it's taken them 16 days to mount a NAS drive onto our VM
16 days
oh, and it's still not done
so 16 days and counting
 
I feel like they are playing wack-a-mole for all my help tickets. "it's done!" >>> no it's really not.
2
 
@GlenH7 Down vote @Maple_shaft's answer, too.
 
3:46 PM
"Well... our group did our part.. we put in the ticket for the other group to do it"
 
DOWNVOTE IT TO OBLIVION!
He's a hatless grinch.
 
Do you want downvotes? Because this is how you get downvotes. — Ampt 26 secs ago
little bit of archer humor for your wednesday morning
 
user41796
Sorry, but I had to flag this with This answer contains content that a reasonable person would deem inappropriate for respectful discourse.GlenH7 16 secs ago
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens I think he's trying to be fair for the grinches and play devil's advocate. But these are hats we're talking about. Grinches be damned.
 
user41796
@enderland "We're sorry, sir. But you'll need to prove to us that your problem hasn't been resolved. Thank you for calling today and I'll be closing out this ticket."
 
3:56 PM
It might be client side configuration problems, but, it'd be the first of many to have that problem... meh
 
...something tells me people aren't using C for it's minimalism...
 
@JimmyHoffa what makes you say that?
 
@ratchetfreak I would hazard a guess that most people use C for it's performance more than anything else.
 
one could also say for its language crossing capability
because nearly every other language has a C binding
 
that's because nearly every other language is written in C, or the language they were written on was written in C
It's C all the way down
 
4:06 PM
@ratchetfreak I'm not saying C isn't a nice minimal language, that's just not really a goal of most language choices made- there'd be a lot less Java and C# and more other simplistic languages were that so. People tend to choose C for it's strengths as a systems language, which Clojure is not, so regardless of them having a cross-section of similarity in minimalism I doubt people will go from C to Clojure because they're using C for it's systems language strengths
@ratchetfreak this tends to go both ways-I would just say the C style FFI are the preferred style as many languages not only can bind to C, but can expose C FFI. This is something created by/for C but that has been adopted more as a common FFI across many languages.
I think it's one of those: There's lots of stuff that can bind to C style FFI, so we get a lot of bang for our buck using it as our languages FFI, and as that proliferates the value of repeating that decision increases
also because it's such a well known (due to age), well tested, and simple binding
 
4:26 PM
So I got offered a transfer to devops... apparently they like what I do and think I'm good at it. Not sure what I want to do
 
user41796
@Ampt lateral?
 
user41796
And how does your boss feel about it?
 
@GlenH7 My Devops boss?
I don't have a boss on the consulting side
 
user41796
Remember, in your (current) biz you can't burn any bridges
 
user41796
@Ampt anyone you're matrixed to?
 
4:27 PM
I have a career counselor, and a talent fullfillment specialist (who is stupidly useless)
 
user41796
ok, sounds like you won't burn any bridges that way
 
yeah.. but I'm worried that I'll essentially be stuck in the sys-admin role forever
 
user41796
Do you enjoy what you're doing now? What do you think you'd be losing if you jump sides?
 
I mean not that theres anything wrong with that, but I want to be a good software engineer too
and I feel that those skills would suffer if I ended up in devops
 
user41796
There is some truth to that
 
user41796
4:29 PM
Evaluate how much coding you've done while in the devops role
 
this is more configuration and maintenance than software developing
little
maybe 1/20 of my total time here was doing development
but, they are very stable, and I would pretty much be guaranteed raises and bonuses every year
promotions as well
 
user41796
That was Employer^ for me, and I ended up leaving there (along with many other reasons!) so I could get back to dev
 
user41796
@Ampt stable is good, esp if they are paying well
 
user41796
You can always code on your own time too
 
yeah... but I'm 23. Stability is for people with families and homes to go to
I am the epitomy of not-tied-down
and I'd like to utilize that while I can
 
user41796
4:31 PM
There's a lot of value in that perspective too
 
user41796
'Cause even if I wanted to go back to that life, I can't.
 
like I said, nothing wrong with stability, but i won't get another chance to be this free and travel and all that
yeah exactly
 
user41796
Can the consulting side get you some programming gigs?
 
it would be almost all programming gigs
I'm a tech developer
 
user41796
Kind of sounded like you had a long, bad stretch where they couldn't place you.
 
4:32 PM
infact I'm being considered for a technical architect role right now...
@GlenH7 yeah... they definitely did
this was a temp assignment to keep me active really
 
user41796
So you have to weigh the risk of them screwing you on your utilization rate vs not getting the on-the-job language exposure
 
yeah... I feel like sticking to the consulting side means fewer raises, a lot more challenges, fewer bonuses
but more experience
and the possibility of more success
 
user41796
Welcome to the age-old conundrum of life then
 
ugh...
can I just take 20 on this?
I'm not being unreasonable by turning this down right? I know that people would kill for a nice, stable 9-5 like this where you get raises and promotions and can work from home.
am I being too greedy by wanting more and trying to push myself for it?
 
user41796
No, not unreasonable if you're clear about what your career goals are
 
user41796
4:37 PM
To be fair, consider giving your devops manager a chance to rework things so you can write more code.
 
I don't see where that code would go to be honest. we mainly configure and manage off the shelf products like jira/confluence, etc
we don't really make tools for anyone
 
user41796
He knows you're new to the gig, and it's fair to say "My passion is XYZ, and I don't think that's being taken care of as things currently are. I like working for you, but would like to see more of XYZ. Can we make that happen?"
 
they do their own tooling for the most part
 
user41796
I'd present it that way anyway
 
yeah.. that's a good point
 
user41796
4:39 PM
Saves him face, and lets him say "I guess you're right, we don't have a good slot for you."
 
user41796
4:57 PM
@enderland Is the consultant / development / career question worth migrating to Workplace?
 
5:08 PM
@GlenH7 Sure. I think it's ok, I'll edit it
 
user41796
k, I'll flag for migration then
 
link?
 
user41796
-2
Q: How to cultivate growth in developers in consulting environment

im1dermikeI started working for a software consulting shop 1.5 years ago after having worked previously only at product development companies. The last product development company I worked at strived for and excelled at creating an environment for their developers that cultivated growth. They really inve...

 
As a consultant for 10+ years, I'd have to agree with this answer whole heartedly. I feel it is my own responsibility to further my career, to keep my skills sharp. It's my drive to do these things myself that makes me valuable as a consultant. Additionaly, I continue to choose consulting over "full-time" in order to avoid the very things that enderland is bringing up. I don't want to live in corporate culture, I want to be the best coder I can - regardless of where I live for the moment. — mklinker 1 hour ago
Heh.
 
user41796
@MichaelT - I busted out laughing when Robert Martin started railing on vim
 
user55340
5:15 PM
@GlenH7 heh.
 
user55340
"at least use emacs"
 
user55340
And then I saw what IDE he was using.
 
user41796
yep, settles all future arguments. Uncle Bob said ...
 
user41796
He even said it before getting into the clojure code
 
user55340
@GlenH7 "use an 8 bit processor and rewrite the machine code on a fly"?
 
5:16 PM
what? Why would I need an operating system to edit my code.
 
user55340
Interesting talk still.
 
user55340
I also like the "reboot the car" bit.
 
user41796
It is, I really liked the historical aspects of it
 
user41796
I've got about 20 mins left
 
user55340
And he does not like C++.
 
user41796
5:18 PM
Not at all, but I think part of that was his bias from the transparency of C
 
user41796
And that bias comes from his assembler days
 
user41796
Many good devs don't need to bother getting to that level of detail
 
user41796
But I understand his perspective
 
@GlenH7 I kinda feel bad for that guy tbh, it seems he didn't understand what he was getting himself into
 
user55340
@enderland Consulting shops, product shops, and internal development are very different places.
 
user55340
5:22 PM
I'm not as much of a fan of consulting - I'd rather have code that I can work with over years than sending it out the door and moving to the next project.
 
user55340
But then, thats me.
 
user41796
@MichaelT It can be hard finding the right balance. I've been on projects where I was delighted to roll to the next one. I was just tired of that codebase. On other projects, I've wanted to go back and keep fiddling with it because it could do neat things.
 
user55340
@GlenH7 I suspect I could have been quite happy at Employer^^... If they had a reasonable concept of work/life balance and recognized that IT was IT and not a 18 year old kid running a cash register or stacking lumber in the yard.
 
user41796
@MichaelT That's only because they couldn't trust the 16 year old. But he was cheaper to hire...
 
user55340
(I'll also grumble about having to fill out a 1 page form every 6 months to get a $0.25/h raise... which if you do the math comes out to be about only a few hundred dollars a year and less than yearly cost of living increase at $25/h - yes, I did mention that in the exit interview)
 
user55340
5:29 PM
(correction - first two years were each 6 months... after that it was once/year)
 
user41796
I'm a big fan of employers respecting their employees
 
user55340
anyways... not working there and from last I heard they've realized a few of these bits... that requiring IT to be there at 8:00 and not 8:06 doesn't contribute to good employee morale... though they're still having difficulty with other aspects of IT.
 
6:16 PM
@GlenH7 I think all employees are
Employers on the other hand...
 
psr
6:26 PM
Has anybody used YouTrack?
 
that's the jetbrains version of jira right?
ticket and issue management?
 
user41796
@im1dermike Welcome to chat
 
you know what, I have used it to submit intellij bugs
seems ok
 
user41796
I think you're misinterpreting the tone of some of the comments. No one is freaking out over your question, and I apologize for the mis-attribution with the edit
 
user41796
The down votes reflect that the question isn't a good fit for the site. Not really that big of a deal. They'll clear on the migration.
 
user41796
6:33 PM
Likewise, @enderland is in this chat room and you can chat over the change in your question. Personally, I think it made the question more constructive and answerable. Asking if it's possible to do or how to do it is too open ended for the StackExchange Q&A format.
 
user55340
Le sigh.
 
user55340
0
A: Can cross-posts actually be valuable to two communities, with the exception of being worded identically?

MichaelTWe're here again? A good question is very unlikely to be identical on multiple sites I've discussed the no-cross-post debates over the months and I never could understand what was wrong with posting an identical question on two sites when it was perfect for both sites as-is. It is pure hub...

 
user55340
You can make a guess as to the person who asked the question by the title.
 
@GlenH7 Speak for yourself. I only downvote out of spite
 
user41796
@MichaelT jT0dd, aka Curious Programmer....
 
user55340
6:35 PM
@GlenH7 yep. Btw, upvotes on mine and fbueckert's posts would be appreciated (I think he has a good answer too)
 
user41796
@im1dermike - I explicitly added write access to this room for your account. But you have > 20 rep and should be able to write anyway
 
user55340
Anyways... off to get new tires for my car.
 
he has 453 rep
he should be able to talk anywhere
I think you scared him
you big bully
 
user41796
@GlenH7: Plus sounds like people feel sorry for me there so F that. — im1dermike 8 mins ago
 
Sorry aboot being sorry, eh?
 
user41796
6:42 PM
<shrugs shoulders>
 
@Ampt We'll pour out a flagon of maple syrup for your loss
 
Lets go get some Tim Hortons with our tire money, then we can apologize to him by presenting him with the gift of maple syrup and offering to play hockey with him.
 
user41796
Back to @AshleyNunn's question from yesterday. What mixes well with maple syrup? (Besides pancakes. Pancake vodka? blech.)
 
bacon?
 
user41796
Best I could come up with was hot chocolate
 
6:45 PM
Thanks for allowing me to chat in here @GlenH7
 
user41796
@im1dermike yw
 
user41796
Glad you could join us
 
Told you the maple syrup and hockey would do it
 
user41796
I think there's two parts to your question - 1) is it common, and 2) can you change the culture
 
user41796
From my experience, and those of my friends which represents most of the Big 5 shops, the answer is "no, absolutely not common."
 
6:47 PM
yeah i don't really care that much about how common it is
 
I'm a consultant, and we are encouraged to do training on all sorts of new technologies on company dime.
 
user41796
I've seen it on big, long term engagements but that's only because the client was explicitly willing to pay for it
 
@Ampt: training = MS certs?
 
user41796
@Ampt But do you do code reviews, lunch & learns, ...
 
That's project to project
most require code review, yes
 
6:48 PM
someone refereced Uncle Bob in my thread
 
we have tools like sonar and cruicible to do that
 
guarentee everything i mentioned is done in his shop
 
user41796
@im1dermike Likely, but he's a smaller shop
 
when did i say i cared about the size of a shop?
 
user41796
The big shops generally don't do those things because they can't bill for them.
 
6:49 PM
@im1dermike is your goal to learn, or complain?
 
user41796
@im1dermike You didn't, and that would would be useful information to add to your question
 
@enderland: you've been nothing but a dick in every response to me
so perhaps just ignore me
 
user41796
Without that information, I have to assume you mean a similar case as to the majority of consultants.
 
@im1dermike very well
 
user41796
@im1dermike That's out of line and a misinterpretation of what was written
 
6:50 PM
huh?
 
user41796
You don't need to resort to calling people names
 
that's fair
 
user41796
If you don't feel that someone understand what you're trying to say or ask, then point that out
 
user41796
resorting to name calling simply leads to arguments not conversations
 
user41796
no one learns from an argument
 
6:51 PM
didn't realize his comment of "is your goal to learn or complain" was constructive
 
21
Q: Public service announcement: Keeping the Workplace Professional

enderlandBe nice. Stack Exchange has a Be Nice policy. The Workplace is no exception to this policy. Lately we moderators have been spending a lot of time dealing with comments and posts including such things as name-calling, personal attacks, condescending answers to sincere questions, and other conten...

 
my thread was essentially asking how you would go about getting some of the tools i mentioned in place in a consulting shop
 
user41796
@im1dermike He's pointing out that you're raising objections to most of the items that have been brought up
 
@im1dermike generally people who attack those answering questions or providing input are not trying to learn. I want to clarify so I can understand whether or not you are simply very direct in your communication style (which is fine) or not at all interested in what I have to say, but what you want me to say (which means I'm not going to waste your time)
 
enderland responded by saying: i don't understand what a consulting shop is, companies don't care about their employees improving or even being retained, and that he doesn't like attending career development meetings so no one should
 
user41796
6:53 PM
@im1dermike All of SE gets more than its fair share of people asking questions but who only want their preconceived biases validated.
 
@GlenH7 Part of a larger shop.. not sure how mothershop does it though
 
a shop can be whatever people make it and i clearly sense an opportunity to change things, hence the topic
 
user41796
@Ampt fairly uncommon during my tenure and those of my friends
 
user41796
@im1dermike So you're putting words in enderland's mouth with that statement
 
user41796
I just re-read the comments and I don't see every one of those statements
 
6:55 PM
which don't you see
i paraphrased from his post
 
user41796
And I think you're missing what he's trying to say
 
user41796
First off, you didn't state whether you're at a large or small shop
 
user41796
they can be very different
 
b/c it's irrelevant AFAIC
 
user41796
@im1dermike hugely relevant
 
6:57 PM
what are your answers if i was referring to a small shop vs big shop?
 
user41796
For example, an individual relatively new hire consultant at the big 5 has absolutely 0 chance of changing culture
 
Who are the big 5 (I know I should know this....)
 
user41796
IBM Global Services, Accenture, Booz .... (whoever else in there now), McKinsey (sp?) will simply laugh at your efforts
 
user41796
@Ampt probably isn't 5 anymore either... :-(
 
Ah, ok
 
user41796
6:58 PM
All the big shops care about is what your utilization rate is.
 
Can confirm
 
what are the chances i work for a big 5 shop?
 
user41796
Been there, done that, years of experience
 
i or anyone asking a question on SA?
 
user41796
@im1dermike Quite significant, actually, as they employ the most amount of consultants
 
user41796
6:59 PM
If you're at a small shop, you have a chance of changing things
 
i mean it doesn't even matter. the fact that i'm asking the question means i believe there is a way i can change culture
 
user55340
... (and dealership wifi!)
 
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