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12:04 AM
@Akater we're the poor sods banging out code to make saleable maintainable software, not the ones fortunate enough to play with the cool stuff outside of our diminutive spare time.
That's all just the stuff of our daydreams
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa Care to proof my revised resume?
 
user20683
@MichaelT See above question directed at Jimmy
 
morning
has anyone ever overriden the [Required] data annotation?
 
user15026
12:23 AM
@jmac This is good advice, thank you :)
 
1:11 AM
@MattD I'm sure someone has.
 
I'm actually coming at it from a different angle
in that im looking at either interacting with the html helper to provide whatever the annotation does
 
user20683
This is a good thing
 
psr
1:31 AM
Wow, 2 good judicial rulings on IT at approximately the same time. How improbable was that?
 
user20683
@psr pretty improbable
 
1:46 AM
probably improbable enough to be improbably probable
 
2:05 AM
@WorldEngineer And it's a 9-0 decision! For anyone who is in to that sort of thing, the full text of the case is located here.
 
 
2 hours later…
user55340
 
user55340
> No, I'm afraid that computer science has suffered from the popularity of the Internet. It has attracted an increasing —not to say: overwhelming!— number of students with very little scientific inclination and in research it has only strengthened the prevailing (and somewhat vulgar) obsession with speed and capacity.
 
user55340
>
Yes, I share your concern: how to program well —though a teachable topic— is hardly taught. The situation is similar to that in mathematics, where the explicit curriculum is confined to mathematical results; how to do mathematics is something the student must absorb by osmosis, so to speak. One reason for preferring symbol-manipulating, calculating arguments is that their design is much better teachable than the design of verbal/pictorial arguments. Large-scale introduction of courses on such calculational methodology, however, would encounter unsurmountable political problems.
 
user55340
4:02 AM
0
Q: Discuss this ${blog}

MichaelTOccasionally there are questions asked that seek to explain some soundbite of thing someone said or wrote. These questions take a few sentences from a larger piece and ask what it means, or disprove it, or take two of them and ask which is right. It is practically impossible to teach go...

 
user55340
If someone has a better title, feel free to change it.
 
I didn't mean to be rude. I just posted a link in hope people would be interested. If nobody's interested then it's my life that becomes more difficult, not their. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh.

Besides, high-level languages are capable of producing salable things.
 
user55340
Most of us are working in the depths of some enterprise or IT development department. The lucky ones are those who are writing salable product rather than reports for another manager (there's a huge difference in how you're treated between development and support).
 
user55340
Its not that we don't want to work in other languages, its just that we're firmly constrained within the domains that we are working in. Getting another database technology in the door can be a year long process (if it happens at all)
 
user55340
(my former employer had a manager squash putting an ldap server where it would be appropriate in because some some politics)
 
user20683
4:10 AM
@Akater You weren't rude, was just suggesting possible better avenues where you could get better answers. Being a mod makes one too used to doing that.
 
4:59 AM
For your entertainment:
1
BarackExchange

Proposed Q&A site for people who have Questions or Answers about Barack Obama.

Currently in definition.

 
5:39 AM
@MichaelT You may appreciate this Ted Talk if you like the idea of what teaching actually means: inspiring curiosity and questions.
 
 
5 hours later…
10:56 AM
Awkward things I said on a Skype call today: "So, you guys are having a revolution...everyone ok?" // We have a development team in Kiev.
 
11:18 AM
free spam flags - programmers.stackexchange.com/a/225310/31260 - "enthusiastic" post about a product referred in user profile website
 
11:44 AM
fantastic guidance on self-promotion...
4
A: What are the guidelines for sharing blog posts and when it becomes self promotion?

Time Traveling BobbyHang with me for a moment, let's go through a short checklist: When is it okay to post link-only-answers? Never. When is it okay to promote my own blog/website? Never. When is it okay to self-answer a question? Always. When is it okay to answer questions with content from my blog? Always. So......

 
 
3 hours later…
user55340
3:03 PM
The difficult bit with this edit programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/225255/revisions is that now its a poll for people to summarize other people.
 
user55340
3:31 PM
FWIW, Dungeons of Dredmor is in the Humble Bundle this week...
 
user41796
3:45 PM
@MichaelT must. avoid. new. time sinks.
 
user41796
@MichaelT I can vote to re-open and then restart the close vote process... :-)
 
A couple of pics from last night are getting some visibility on Twitter.
I've never had this happen before.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens thats what happens when you party with a lamp shade over your head.
 
@MichaelT So that's what happened. Explains a lot.
 
user55340
Lampshades are key, because they protect your identity... unless, of course, you post them to your own feeds or have someone tag them on Facebook.
 
3:49 PM
No pics of me. I was standing like 4 feet from Cedric Gervais and got some good pics, considering all I had was club lighting and a GNex.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens - perhaps Katy Perry's Last Friday Night would be an apropos listen?
 
@GlenH7 Probably. Although if it was called This Friday Morning...
Not to mention, I roll into work on 2 hours of sleep and everything's going right so far.
 
user41796
That's better than how the song turned out
 
Brought some software from testing with a simulator to testing with hardware. No issues at all - works as expected. Meeting got moved to Tuesday, so I can leave early, after I hit 40 on the week.
 
user41796
I'll take that one for the win please
 
user55340
3:55 PM
Oh, has anyone thought of a better title to the "Discuss this ${blog}" meta post?
 
And tonight, my university's hockey game is a national broadcast. There's an alumni event in Boston.
 
user55340
4
Q: Discuss this ${blog}

MichaelTOccasionally there are questions asked that seek to explain some soundbite of thing someone said or wrote. These questions take a few sentences from a larger piece and ask what it means, or disprove it, or take two of them and ask which is right. It is practically impossible to teach go...

 
user55340
(I couldn't find the "which one is right - it takes 10 years to become a great programmer or don't bother because programming isn't what makes a great programmer" main site question)
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens random question - what does participating in alumni events do for you? Is it just for fun to go celebrate the alma mater, or do you use it for business connections? My undergrad alma mater has a decently active group here, but I haven't participated in any of their events.
 
@GlenH7 Social usually. But some people do networking, especially with the high concentration of computing graduates in this area.
 
4:04 PM
@GlenH7 No trader joe's here yet - doubt it would do much business, tons of competition in that market space here. Trader Joe's one selling point is the brands they carry you can get nowhere else
@WorldEngineer Sure
@GlenH7 also Trader Joe's style alcohol selling would be illegal here actually, a grocery store can only sell up to 3.2%ABV drinks
 
@JimmyHoffa That's really low. Like, lower than any beer I've ever had.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens thanks for the data point. Quite a few guys from my HS went to my undergrad, and they moved back to the area. Not sure if that's a point to draw me into the group or push me away. :-)
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa I hop across the state line to where it's not an issue. Their house brand of beer runs ~5.2% abv
 
@GlenH7 I don't know if it's the same way, but at my university, there are both college alumni events and university alumni events.
 
@Akater You weren't being rude, I was just saying we're not really the right crowd for that stuff; you want help designing an app in Java or C# or web tech we can help, but as for analysis of julia and mathematica folks around here just won't have much of that experience
@GlenH7 I mean they couldn't sell liquor, or wine, and would have to remake their beer to sell if they wished
so I wouldn't even be able to get islay storm
 
user41796
4:08 PM
@JimmyHoffa I'm surprised they opened up shops on my side of the state line for that reason
 
As for the border, I'm not familiar with Wyoming's alcohol laws... but I am familiar with their lack of population, and I'm sure Trader Joe's aint showing up there anytime soon
 
user41796
but they managed to find the right niche, and their stores are always busy afaik
 
@ThomasOwens Yeah, beers make reformulations for grocery stores here and I believe Utah has the 3.2 law as well as one or two other states so the beer makers have enough incentive to reformulate (at least the major manufacturers)
the beer section at a grocery store here has all the coors/bud/miller products, and a hand full of the smirnoff/mike's hard mixed drink things, all of them having been reformulated because the company's are large enough to create a state specific formulation
 
Quick question - is there a name for the anti-pattern where every single layer needs to know how the data is structured in the database? Writing a report about the need to refactor some crappy program.
 
user55340
@gnat the impetus for the blog question was the series of questions that I've been seeing from programmers.stackexchange.com/users/13382/hawkeye that have just irked me. They're not bad, but solidly 'meh' in the amount of thought put into asking them.
 
user55340
4:12 PM
@user2708395 Tight couplinging of the data model throughout the system. It doens't really need a more specific name.
 
@MichaelT Thanks! That sounds good.
 
I almost wonder if a well-formulated skeptics-style question isn't a good fit. Skeptics is proof that questions asking about the validity of claims made.
I think they have to be fairly notable, though. Anyone can write crap and throw it on the Internet.
 
user55340
The Dijkstra question though... he wrote many... excessively arrogant things. Partly to generate the discussion, partly to get the attention and partly because he was arrogant.
 
user55340
And those were often well before the internet.
 
Is there added value in asking about the validity of a given claim, though? I think that's what it boils down to.
For a given claim, is it a legitimate claim or does it fall into the category of something to generate discussion or get attention? If it is legitimate, does it still apply?
I'm not sure if there is value added or not. But it's something to think about.
 
user55340
4:20 PM
This is the only one where I've seen it answered well...
 
user55340
3
Q: Gradual Typing: "Almost every language with a static type system also has a dynamic type system"

hawkeyeThis claim by Aleks Bromfield states: Almost every language with a static type system also has a dynamic type system. Aside from C, I can't think of an exception Is this a valid claim? I understand that with Reflection or Loading classes at runtime Java gets a bit like this - but can this i...

 
user55340
And that's because...
 
user55340
10
A: Gradual Typing: "Almost every language with a static type system also has a dynamic type system"

Aleks BromfieldOriginal tweeter here. :) First of all, I'm somewhat amused/shocked that my tweet is being taken so seriously! If I had known it was going to be this widely disseminated, I would have spent more than 30 seconds writing it! Thiago Silva is correct to point out that "static" and "dynamic" more ac...

 
user55340
Not quite as notable as the classic SO one though...
 
user55340
352
A: Help me remember a quote from Alan Kay

Alan KayI will try to remember what I said, but none of the answers so far are correct (every one of them was done in the 60s and 70s before the commercialization of PCs in the 80s). However, we could start all over and try to think of new inventions in computing since the 1980s.

 
4:22 PM
@MichaelT That one is a guessing game, though. Bad example.
 
user55340
The thing is, almost all "what did XYZ mean in this blog post" are guessing games.
 
Yeah, true. Unless the original author happens to show up or has elaborated in a later source that someone is familiar with and can provide/quote/summarize, I suppose they usually are.
 
user55340
Why doesn't Dijkstra like Fortran? Well... summarize ewd.cs.utexas.edu.master.com/texis/master/search/…
 
user55340
I could write an entire college level paper that only begins to touch on Dijkstra's objections to fortran without even delving into if they are right or wrong... he wrote a lot.
 
user55340
I really don't want to see "Kernigan didn't like pascal and wrote an essay on it. Are his claims correct?" as a P.SE question. I hope it would get closed as too broad. But I also hope that people would be able to read the essay, understand the broader topics at work and possibly ask a better question.
 
4:35 PM
I'm such a rep whore, I wrote an answer today too yeesh
 
@MichaelT so far, your journey seems to be going pretty well. I guess it may take another month or two to "crystallize" stuff and complete the list, but I expect it eventually to resolve into blog article, it's much needed guidance for our site
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa I also wrote one...
 
@MichaelT Yours wasn't about Haskell so it doesn't count
 
user55340
@gnat There are a lot of awkward questions that don't fit well. Sometimes they can be made to fit better if the person realizes the how to ask them well and get at the heart of the matter they are asking.
 
@MichaelT however did you read that Haskell question about string interpolation? I never knew about the string interpolation package the guy shows but apparently it's from Perl6
 
user55340
4:40 PM
@JimmyHoffa (heh... lets see how much we can infect Haskell with perlisms)
 
@MichaelT The problem is often if someone's able to construct a proper analysis of their issue to see it by it's components and pick out the piece that's causing the real problem to ask about; they're also capable of solving that problem because all they really needed to begin with was to figure out what it was
 
user55340
Whee! Super duper mod migrate and dup by Shog!
 
@MichaelT yeah, as opposed to not quite a super-duper migration in another question...
4
Q: The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know about Computer Science (No Excuses!)

JohnYes, I borrowed the title form a famous joelonsoftware post for my question because I didn't exactly know how to ask this. I'm a professional programmer for a few years now and although I followed informatics courses in school there was a lot of stuff missing from the curriculum, as I now know b...

can't vote since it's locked. Had to flag asking to remove that trash from the site
score +4 for a blatant mindless poll, oh my
like in good old times of NPR
 
@gnat I just can't believe that got +4
sorry, +5
 
@gnat no excuses!
 
4:53 PM
@JimmyHoffa these senseless upvotes were brought from CS - cs.stackexchange.com/posts/19923/timeline - but now it looks like it has got a warm welcome here, and there's no way to correct this as it's locked
 
great answers at migration too
 
@enderland take no prisoners! pull it to the top of hot list, let everyone see what Programmers.SE is about!
 
It's gone
 
user55340
@gnat I've gone on "flag for mod delete" hunts for failed migration stubs. Occasionally though, I've actually asked it the "unlock and undelete" for a few of the answers.
 
@enderland comment is even greater...
Should you not ask this on Programmers? It's a very broad question; what area are you interested in most? It's also an subjective question; you can enable objective answers by explaining a particular task you feel could profit from CS knowledge. You might want to check out our reference questions to get some ideas, too. — Raphael 17 hours ago
@Oded thank you thank you thank you! while I have your attention, would you mind taking care of the brainless comment "on Programmers -- It's a very broad question;" that hangs in there at CS? I'd flag it like I did here, but I don't have account
@MichaelT yeah I recall seeing some effects of your hunts. Myself, I don't focus on this but never miss a chance to drop a flag when I stumble upon something weird in such questions
 
5:01 PM
Woo! SWEBOK v3.0 has been released.
 
@gnat I commented back to that CS mod. Will see how that goes.
 
user55340
... and its Friday (Grapevine from former employer says the last of the group that was pulled together to get the register fixed has accepted a job at another company)
 
@MichaelT ruh oh. time to ask for 3x your previous salary and go back? :)
 
user55340
@enderland 3? No... I wouldn't do it for 3x. It would take a host of other policy changes too.
 
@Oded great - thanks, that's just the way I prefer it to be handled
 
5:04 PM
np
 
5:16 PM
@ThomasOwens Thanks for sharing! Downloading it now.
 
Oh geez that comment is from a mod ?? what part of "I don't actually participate in that site, so I might not actually know it's scope" do people miss when they think about telling people about other site scopes??
I don't participate in Arqade.SE, so from now on I'm going to assume it's scope is 80's arcade machine maintenance, if anybody asks a question on P.SE about an 80's arcade machine I'll just comment telling them to cross-post it to another site; apparently that's acceptable from a mod so it's what should be done right?
 
heh. how many people here use a google voice number as their primary number? I'm catching flak from a friend of mine on this
 
user55340
The awkwardness is the "if it is too broad on one site, its likely too broad on another." The other bit that is... distasteful is the view from the person who asked the question - getting bounced around (and closed on other sites) rather than addressing the broadness on that site before sending it elsewhere.
 
This code (at the top of a property)
 
@MichaelT I'm still a touch confused; it was migrated here ? Doesn't that mean a P.SE mod had to accept the migration?
 
5:18 PM
 if not isinstance(codes, (list, tuple)):
     raise Exception("Codes should be a list or a tuple")
What is that technique called?
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Yep. It was.
 
(I can never remember)
I usually call it a "fence," but I know that's the wrong name.
 
user55340
Guard clause
 
Ah, thanks.
 
5:19 PM
@RobertHarvey a property ? Bad is what I'd call it. But guard clause is the normal term for things like that
@RobertHarvey what language is that?
 
You got me.
You're right; it's probably a method, not a property.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Looks pythonic.
 
You would only be "guarding" method parameters.
 
@RobertHarvey hopefully
 
user55340
(though thats just the "there's a : and its space indent" so might be completely wrong)
 
5:21 PM
@WorldEngineer is that Pythonic or would duck-typing it be more pythonic; that is checking if it has the facilities expected rather than demanding it of some other type
@MichaelT raise Exception is pythonic too
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa More of that cross pollination between Perl6 and Haskell.
 
user55340
 import Text.InterpolatedString.Perl6 (q)
 
@MichaelT Aye, neat stuff
Being able to do some perl things in Haskell will probably be kind of helpful, PCRE is an evil horribleness that the world should have wiped from it - but until that happens it'll give Haskell a comprehensive regexp library which is surely more capable than the currently Haskell ones (I'm pretty sure PCRE is more capable than C++)
Ah haskell already had PCRE via a PCRE library it linked with
 
user55340
PCRE is very powerful... and you don't have to use every last bit it has to offer to still get a good bit of power from it.
 
@MichaelT Sure. I'm more trying to deter more close votes, I really don't see how this is "too broad". You've already (half) answered it in your comment. — Yannis Rizos 2 hours ago
@YannisRizos I didn't cast a vote yet but it feels somewhat broad to me, just like to 3 other guys who voted already. To start with, this canonical, large, thorough, fantastic answer makes only a preliminary iontro into how to answer this question. Like, "to stay on a safe side, don't even try to pretend... <large explanation follows>"...
...After this, I can easily imagine suggesting multiple strategies depending on preferred communication style, familiarity with discussed technologies etc etc etc. Besides, "Is there a standard way" part of the question is a sign of Yes/No question with all associated problems (are you gonna delete answers like "Yes" or "No" if I flag these?)...
7
A: Question closed because yes/no answer

ServyWhen asking a yes/no question there are one of two possibilities: You really want a yes/no answer. If this is the case, and you don't need anything else to answer your question then it means the answers will be inherently low quality. An answer that only says "Yes" or "No" (in addition to not...

 
5:43 PM
@gnat Meh, it's too broad, and it's career advice anyway. I voted to close.
 
@MichaelT I was once asked the same thing about how to build a house; the interviewer wanted a specific construction result and didn't care about my process. The unfortunate fact is we can't assume what approach any given interviewer is actually taken, which is why questions like this one don't work well. We could give the best advice in the world, but the interviewer may be braindead and expecting some rote memory answers from an arcane literature that interviewer expects everyone to know and we cannot instruct someone how to prepare for that. — Jimmy Hoffa 16 secs ago
How to prepare for an interview: Read the entire internet.
 
I'm always amused by questions that, in effect, ask "How can I cram for this interview," like that's even possible. Here's how: be an expert in the subject matter that the employer is interested in, and demonstrate that you know how to solve problems and get things done.
 
@RobertHarvey Alternatively, smile a lot; pray.
 
Anything else is just tap-dancing. 'Course, sometimes that's what you need to do to land the gig. The job search process is like throwing spaghetti against the wall, and seeing what will stick.
 
user55340
The brain dead expected answers can be in any domain - they may have an idea of how to build youtube and my answer is not what they were expecting... and thus wrong boot out.
 
user55340
5:47 PM
But showing that I can fairly quickly break down a YouTube question down into its components "video serving", "video uploading", "comments", "users", "advertisements" etc... and then address each of those means that I already know how to do that.
 
user55340
It really didn't show my thought process, because I already thought it through quite quickly on the fly.
 
user55340
But what the interviewer wants to see is where I falter in trying to do a project I'm unfamiliar with. They couldn't tell my "youtube architecture" if it was from rote or from experience.
 
user55340
Thus going t the house, well... what are the parts of a house, how do you define the house, how many rooms? etc... That's what is desired to be seen.
 
user55340
Partially the "Weeds" one.
 
user55340
5:52 PM
Well, all three... they're all good.
 
@RobertHarvey Thankyou for validating my understanding of "spaghetti testing" - I've been told by more than one person that's not a thing people say and I just made it up
 
@RobertHarvey Yannis gonna hate you :)
 
Spaghetti... testing?
 
@RobertHarvey Throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks
 
It's just like any other sales process... you have a close ratio. Most people have to send out 100 to 200 resumes to get one offer.
 
Aks
5:56 PM
@MichaelT thanks :) My primary concern was that a generic breakdown of the problem may be too abstract and that they're likely expecting something more technical
 
@RobertHarvey I just mean "like throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what will stick" is something I've had people tell me I made up. I knew it existed outside of my little hed!
 
Of course, resumes are the least efficient way to get a job. Referrals are always better. I can't remember the last time I actually got a job by sending out a resume. They don't know anything about you, other than what you claim on a maximum of two sheets of paper, and HR views it as a sifting exercise. Every employer has their own custom application form, that you always have to fill out. With a pen. The process really sucks.
 
@RobertHarvey True, and unfortunately this is how the majority of green faces have to get in - which totally blows for them.
To be frank it's kind of horsecrap that referrals don't have to go through such process
 
user55340
@Aks There are a couple options - (1) they've got some idea in mind. Its a guessing game if you get it right or not. They might as well ask "what is in my pocket?". (2) They want to see what technologies you pick for a problem. Not often the case. More useful long ago when the stacks were more limited, now there are too many options and trying to select by technology stack is a guessing game again.
 
not really fair
 
user55340
5:59 PM
(3) they're going for the "how do you solve a problem you are unfamiliar with that has a scope much larger than you've dealt with before?" - and the domain doesn't matter. What does matter is how you do it. Not the specifics. How do you gather the requirements, how do you split up the problem?
 
@Aks now that you found the appropriate venue for your question (chat) you might want to delete it from the site. On the other hand that's my opinion, maybe it will stay open and is a good question and my advice is bad; it's your call.
 
@JimmyHoffa Well, for college graduates, there's a real gap. Germany has elaborate apprenticeship programs that fill that gap, supported and backed by private industry. We used to do this better in the US than we do now.
 
user55340
Some people say "a house" and dive right in to "well, first you pour a slab, then you put up the walls, then the roof and you're done"
 
user55340
Which isn't the right answer - because, well, what I the requirements are a house in the northern part of the country where shifting ground in the winter would crack a slab?
 
@RobertHarvey Yeah, this is how I made it. @Ampt is lucky to have such a good internship connection through his college.
 
user55340
6:00 PM
(and check back in about 1.5 hours... its lunch time and former coworkers are finding new jobs)
 
@MichaelT I literally had this question asked where the guy wanted me to tell him what products I would make the house out of and what features I would put in it because he had a preconcieved notion of a right house.
Some people hear these things like "ask how to build a house in an interview" - totally misunderstand the intent of the question, then ask it with their own made up terrible intent in the question
 
Aks
@JimmyHoffa, ok, deleted.
 
@JimmyHoffa Co-op programs = instant win.
 
But it's a mixed bag, I used to ask people to design a card game, looking to hear their design concepts about how they would lay out the data model and logic layers et al, and constantly got people thinking I was trying to test for their requirements gathering skills who would say "Well I'd start with a sprint planning meeting - and I'd sit with the stakeholders and ask them and document and bla bla bla"
 
If I got asked to design a card game, I'd probably fail the test. This is why you can't cram for interviews; interviewers are likely to ask almost anything.
How many jellybeans can you put in a bus?
 
6:06 PM
How many buses can you put in a jelly bean?
 
@RobertHarvey Yeah, but this is why I never took it too seriously; stab in the dark and if they started talking data model I'd learn something, if they didn't it wasn't a negative answer, it just means I didn't get anything out of that attempt.
 
That may or may not be an interview question next time I go recruiting.
 
@RobertHarvey Define jellybeans as a single atom from a jelly bean; define bus as a single atom of a bus. There is no room in a bus for anything.
 
@JimmyHoffa There's some validity to that answer. If you keep asking "and then what would you do? Assume the requirement is for a blackjack game. Do you know the rules of blackjack? How would you structure it?" and they still come up with managerial answers, you know they have no idea how to approach it.
 
alternatively "Zero, I have no Jelly Beans to fit in a bus."
 
6:08 PM
Sheesh. Sorry I brought up the jelly bean thing.
 
"Zero. The bus is a jelly bean."
Or would that be 1? I don't know.
 
@RobertHarvey Yeah sometimes, but I didn't really hold that too strongly. If it was lots of hand-waving then I'd drill into their technicals to see if they misunderstood the question or actually lacked the technicals.
It's easy to misunderstand those questions even for the smartest among us.
I've done it. I usually answer those questions by immediately asking their intent; describing my guesses at what their intent may be - "Are you looking for my ability at X or Y or Z with that question?", I've had some accept that as the answer simply because I recognized their intent could be X and it was X
 
The only thing that's worse than being asked a question that demands requirements gathering is being asked a question that has nothing whatsoever to do with their problem domain.
 
@RobertHarvey Alternatively there's puzzle questions, they work something like this: "Here is a very constrained situation, you have X and Y and that is all you have. You need to figure out something about Y, the only thing at your disposal is X" then people claim "You see, this question helps me understand your thought process as you think through it" the reality is; the situation is so constrained there's only one possible answer and it's a trick, everything else is obviously not possible
So the answerer ends up just "Hmmm...."ing as he tries to think of extra things to do but the scenario is built to disallow anything so it doesn't really get anything from the answerer.
It's a great way to not learn anything at all from someone but make yourself feel good. "You have two ropes in an auditorium, how do you climb them both without touching the floor" "uhh.uhhh.... I can't touch the floor?" "Nope" "hmmm.......hmmmm...hmmm....Is there anything else?" "No, just ropes." "Hmmm....." (it took him 4 Hmm's before giving up, this one's a dud!)
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Define "climb" :-)
 
6:22 PM
@GlenH7 O gosh you guessed a question somehow you're smarter than the others! The best results from questions like that are still a crapshoot which don't tell you anything meaningful.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa I need money. Gimme gimme gimme the job already. :-)
 
heh
 
user41796
I still remember what it was like hitting the market while finishing up school. The bills were looming and that positive cash flow was a necessity.
 
The part it seems you learn the most about someones abilities from in an interview I've found is the part where they tell you their history with computing/programming, how they came to it etc. Just getting that info from them, and then testing them technically against their claims tends to do a better job IME of seeing where they are along in things. Dead important to put them in front of an editor and make them write some code though to prove their technicals aren't just in their head.
 
user41796
I hate when the comments I want to make would potentially expose something at work. <sigh>
 
6:27 PM
@GlenH7 Whoa, keep the exposing to yourself now, we don't need to see any of that
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa you betcha.
 
user41796
Ugh. Only 300 more rep to go to get to 20k
 
user41796
As my littl'uns would whine "that will take for-EVER!"
 
@GlenH7 this is one of the reasons I'm adamant about the relationship between enjoying your job and having some financial reserves
 
user41796
reserves === security
 
6:38 PM
plus flexibility, if you have 6 months expenses you have a lot easier ability to "f u i'm out" than if you have 0 months
 
user41796
that is quite true
 
user41796
Obligatory +1 for xkcd reference. — GlenH7 1 min ago
 
user41796
There, now I got the ping & onebox to work correctly.
 
user41796
7:01 PM
Down votes please, I'd like to nuke this question. But it needs a few more votes to push it into 3 votes to delete territory.
 
user41796
-2
Q: I want to learn C# through Java. How can I do that?

Simon SmithI have an excellent book for learning OOP using Java but my goal is to learn C#. How can I use that book to learn C# instead of Java? How can I know the equivalent of Java code in C#? Is there a website for example that helps me in this?

 
user55340
@Aks Of note, (now that I'm back) we're fairly helpful when it comes to the process of interviewing and such in here. Its something that one needs to get to know the person a bit to help them too - which is why the main site isn't quite as useful for such questions.
 
Time for a @gnat duplicates lesson again.
@GlenH7 Done (and added a delete vote).
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Boom! Thanks. Down votes or additional delete votes. Either way is good for nuking.
 
user41796
7:20 PM
It worries me a little when I see a message from Google saying "your gmail account is temporarily unavailable"
 
user55340
That's an issue here... its a network (as in internet wide) problem.
 
user41796
okay, then I won't obsess about it being spear phishing attacks initiated during a previous life.
 
user41796
irony is listening to the Crystal Method's Trip Like I Do and staring at my loose-leaf tea wondering if I should have a cup or not and worrying about if it's too late in the afternoon to have caffeine.
 
user41796
4
A: What changes can I make to my IDE to minimize the effect of my dyslexia?

jffIf you are dyslexic, maybe you should start by leaning a statically typed language such as C, C++, C#, or Java. Since you are forced to declare variables in these languages and there is type checking, the compiler and IDE will throw errors if by mistake you do something like: var aux; //declarin...

 
user41796
Ironically, I was thinking about the same thing in that answer today while having my lunch and ruminating over JavaScript.
 
user41796
@MichaelT I am not alone. This is comforting.
 
user55340
@GlenH7 The trick is to avoid words at all... APL WTF! (or is that FTW? Either way...)
 
user20683
and home, that was a suck day.
 
user41796
7:48 PM
@MichaelT I was wondering if it would be possible to enforce strict typing on top of JavaScript and still be able to use all the frameworks like Angular and Breeze and whatnot.
 
user55340
@WorldEngineer Its not over yet...
 
user20683
@MichaelT my work day is, kinda.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer hopefully you didn't have any angry customers screaming at you
 
user20683
@GlenH7 back went out and nausea
 
user20683
better now
 
user41796
7:51 PM
double blech.
 
user41796
It helps put the frustrations of getting the soccer team players registered in perspective.
 
user41796
The Club has free agents already registered and wanting teams to play on whereas I have to prod my returning families to hurry up and register so I know they're actually going to play.
 
user20683
on the plus side, resume is updated and looks nice
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer This is a good thing
 
user55340
8:04 PM
@GlenH7 You should make a game out of it... or just go play a game... store.steampowered.com/app/231670
 
1
Q: Does the new guidance on duplicate questions suggest closing a question as duplicate, if the original answers the OP's question?

Robert HarveyThe new guidance is here: Changes to "close as duplicate" (part deux) Among other things, it describes the new close banner: This question already has an answer here: Link to the Duplicate Question ... which seems to suggest that, if some other question in the system answers the OP's qu...

 
user41796
@RobertHarvey enjoy 10 more bits of unicorn poo
 
Gee, thanks. :)
 
user41796
don't pretend like you don't want it....
 
user41796
Even with the 90k+ you've already got we know you want more.
 
user55340
8:13 PM
@GlenH7 He's just jealous that the mods here have the BFG "nuke the question with dripping blood" while SO doesn't. Special P.SE build.
 
@JimmyHoffa I'm not sure I can run delete sql queries from Acce$$ without a primary key
 
user55340
(the google outage has spread to most of the rest of google apps)
 
@enderland Access won't let you delete with a where clause on columns other than the PKEY?
 
user55340
 
@JimmyHoffa it... doesn't seem so?
 
8:17 PM
@enderland What is the delete statement you tried?
 
user55340
@enderland You need to upgrade Access to get the delete command.
 
that sounds crazy and silly and nonsense and...Access...
 
> DELETE FROM EquipmentTechnicalIdentifier WHERE ProjectsID=1;
the query runs fine in SQL server obv
 
and it just blows up at you "Nahh, try again sucker"
 
user41796
@MichaelT mail and chat appear to be working for me.
 
8:18 PM
@enderland yeah, you know what you've got there? The Jet Engine blues. I had those over a decade ago, it's somewhat comforting to know those still happen...
 
I know why people hate Access more and more
yup
adding a primary key fixed that problem
@MichaelT I was having problems with gmail previousl
 
@enderland yeah, I'll literally never forget the argument I had with my boss back in the day when he told me "It'll be easy, just put it together in access - doesn't need to be complex." and I had to argue and explain that it would actually be easier and take less time if he let me put together that particular project using the SQL server we already had running for other purposes anyways
I remember it because I won, and never got the Jet Engine blues again
 
thank God I'm using SQL server too
 
user41796
Bam! Oded on the prowl.
 
at least I can trust SQL server
 
8:22 PM
The Microsoft Jet Database Engine is a database engine on which several Microsoft products have been built. A database engine is the underlying component of a database, a collection of information stored on a computer in a systematic way. The first version of Jet was developed in 1992, consisting of three modules which could be used to manipulate a database. JET stands for Joint Engine Technology, sometimes being referred to as Microsoft JET Engine or simply Jet. Microsoft Access and Visual Basic use or have used Jet as their underlying database engine. It has since been superseded for g...
shakes fist at screen
 
user55340
Oh, at lunch we were debating if one of the guys who was applying for team lead at my former employer... "was it a frontal lobotomy? or were you born to it?" (he's from a family that has many people working for them).
 
user55340
"What language should I learn to make the most" is quite a bit like "What paints should I buy to sell paintings for the most?"
 
@MichaelT nah it's probably english
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa flags as offensive
 
user55340
@enderland An english degree gets you to be a tech writer... and well... Hi @AshleyNunn !
 
user41796
8:25 PM
@enderland no, no you can't. Never say things like that. You have no idea what sort of a pandora's box you're opening by saying that.
 
@MichaelT yeah but my guess is those who speak english earn, on average, the most of any language around the world
@GlenH7 compared to M$ Access.... I could marry SQL server
 
user15026
@MichaelT giggles Or if you are me, it gets you an interview at a fast food place that I think went okay.
 
user41796
@enderland I'd argue that speaking multiple languages fluently is a better indicator of higher salary
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn I knew a PhD in archeology who worked at a gas station.
 
@GlenH7 yeah but the question was "what language [singular]"
 
user41796
8:27 PM
@AshleyNunn I have slung burgers more than once before.
 
user41796
@enderland Never assume the basis of the question is fixed or absolutely correct. :-)
 
user55340
@GlenH7 Gmail now shows up green on that console, everything else is still orange.
 
user15026
@GlenH7 Before I went to uni I worked at a coffee shop for a few years. Right now, money is money :D
 
user41796
some of my best site answers have been where I basically state "You asked X but you meant Y. Here's the answer to Y"
 
@MichaelT knew someone with a PhD in Microbiology who was a bartender.
 
8:28 PM
@GlenH7 it's more fun to assume stakeholders know what they are talking about and konw what they want ;)
Enderland: You are a beautiful person. It's frickin' awesome! and works like a charm. This cleared up all the issues I was having. Thanks! — user3232254 10 mins ago
thats an awkward thank you
 
user41796
@enderland pffff
 
it's just my smiling face, can't resist it
 
user41796
@enderland But you are a beautiful person. You solved their issue.
 
user55340
@GlenH7 with ~300 more rep on SO, he'll be at 3k... and can help @RobertHarvey out with close reviews...
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Duh. Why else would you get a phd in microbiology?
 
8:29 PM
@WorldEngineer here ya go; work out your DB design chops answering this question, this guy right here shows precisely what is constantly seen in industry that I'm always saying requires people to know how to lay out data models
1
Q: C# Design Issue

ZeosI am building a small application and I am trying to understand the best way to approach the design. I am looking for some guidance/advice how best to approach the following issue. What I have is that I receive a set of data, real time. I then analyze the data for patterns. The patterns are cla...

 
user55340
@GlenH7 Go my wee yeasties! Make me beer!
 
user41796
@AshleyNunn best advice I can give is to never forget that money is money.
 
user15026
@GlenH7 True that.
 
user41796
I should acknowledge my bias on the microbiology question - I'm going to start a batch of syrah in a week or so.
 
user55340
Let me drink your excrement and enjoy its full earthy flavor... well... maybe.
 
user55340
8:33 PM
(ok... who's up for a drink? Hello? did I kill the conversation that badly?)
 
they are all drinking now
 
user55340
Or dumping out the drinks...
 
user41796
Hello, Andy Harglesis! Nice to see you. Let's find out if your question remains constructive, shall we? — Robert Harvey 2 mins ago
 
user41796
@MichaelT Nah, we were all pouring a glass
 
Uh, I really don't see a strategy pattern hidden in creating a dictionary to store in-memory data version of a database's data... also he's not on the right track, his decided approach is pretty poor and shows a (very common) lack of understanding DB design.. I don't say that to be dismissive or insulting, just that he's right to be asking here as folks on this site likely have better ideas for approaching the problem than what he's suggesting. — Jimmy Hoffa 1 min ago
 
user55340
8:35 PM
@GlenH7 Ha! Go chase accounts.
 
user55340
Go click on the 'game dev' account. (Or any of them for that matter)
 
Am I wrong, or did that guy just say "Look it's a strategy pattern" while pointing at something that hasn't the vaguest resemblence of a strategy pattern ??
 
user41796
 
Ah hell to it, I'll flag as VLQ, it's a single sentence answer anyway with no explanation that might show why he thinks what he does (which would go a long way in understanding how he came up with that crazy)
 
user41796
8:37 PM
@WorldEngineer - looks like your nausea came back
 
user20683
on it
 
user55340
Need to get Oded to fetch a bucket... for the dismembered parts.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey - Yes, I up voted your answer solely to keep him from being able to delete the question. :-)
 
user41796
Dang! I nearly got outed as @RobertHarvey's sock puppet. That was close!
 
user20683
Nausea solved via application of honey
 
user20683
8:41 PM
@GlenH7 care to review my resume as it is?
 
Ouch. BOOM.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer sure; would be happy to do so. Wanna send it direct to my gmail account? (Consider that as permission to look up my PII)
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I'll link via DB and delete the link
 
user20683
<--is lazy and sore
 
user20683
@GlenH7
 
user41796
8:42 PM
I'm okay with that. Lazy and sore is a bad combination ...
 
user20683
yeah
 
First and foremost you need to focus on the data model for your users/roles/permissions, there are many approaches to this and this authentication/authorization portion of any application tends to be a non-trivial portion. I would suggest you ask another question here about how you plan on designing the data model and what you expect to get out of it for just authentication/authorization (also what the difference between those two are if you're not familiar with it) and asking for suggestions/critiques of your planned approach or if it looks functional. — Jimmy Hoffa 43 secs ago
 
bullet points under leadership!!!
 
Common mistake; people thinking "O I'll just make a users table or something and voila I have authentication and authorization worked out, easy." - The security section of the apps I've worked on is ever some of the harriest bits of the system... Not to mention the scariest, mistakes in there are easy to make and have horrible consequences
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa I'd use whatever autogenerator was available unless that somehow wasn't enough
 
8:46 PM
@WorldEngineer you want my feedback too?
 
@WorldEngineer Yeah but he needs to ask the question about what he's doing and how to do it before he can get such advice. Using frameworks for these things varies but there tends to be something you need to store on your own if for no other reason than to define the permissions themselves - even if the authentication is handled for you
 
user20683
@enderland sure
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa Rails has a User thing that can be raked into existence.
 
@JimmyHoffa I keep hoping that I'll someday work for a company that understands this and has someone on staff that is a security expert, which I'm decidedly not. I put in the security that Microsoft provides, and cross my fingers.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - I'll write up my thoughts and email to you tonight. I have a couple of suggestions, but I want to explain why I think the suggestions will help.
 
8:48 PM
Can you hear me, Target?
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Free credit monitoring for all!
 
user41796
speaking of which, I need to get another auth code for my wife
 
@WorldEngineer pretty much all of my thoughts relate to overall appearance, it's sometimes helpful to zoom way out and get a feel for your resume as a work of art
 
Companies not only don't know anything about security, they also don't know what they don't know. The sheer amount of knowledge required to be even remotely competent at it is mind-boggling.
 
user20683
@enderland yeah
 
8:50 PM
@RobertHarvey I've lived in MS's security and in hand-rolled (more hand-rolled than otherwise) and frankly I'm happy to work in these sections of code because it's a lot of data modeling and maintaining that data's integrity/consistency which is stuff I like and am pretty good at, but it's always best to use something that's been wringed out by more than just your company when it comes to security...
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey This goes a long way to raising the bar for sophistication of attack. sans.org/critical-security-controls
 
unfortunately I've never so much as met a "security expert" I have a feeling they either don't exist, or they only exist as independent consultants, and they've all been hired by russians for unsavory activities
 
@GlenH7 Ah, compliance reporting. I know it well. A lot of ceremony for not much benefit.
 
user55340
@WorldEngineer I'm sure there's a dozen security holes in it based on creating complex objects.
 
it's entirely plausible the only "security experts" are working for the NSA or still in academia where they refer more to "information science"
 
user20683
8:52 PM
@MichaelT probably
 
user55340
Didn't he use that name before?
 
Hello again, Andy. — Robert Harvey 36 secs ago
 
user41796
@MichaelT yes, he has
 
user55340
What would it take to persuade him to go troll Gaming.SE instead? I hear they have some people who need case studies for how to handle a troll...
 
user55340
8:57 PM
Ohh! Oded got this one...
 
user15026
@MichaelT I don't want anymore experience with Gaming trolls without a diamond - I have enough on Pets sometimes :P
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn ever read the Meatball wiki?
 
user15026
@MichaelT Nope, I don't have any idea what that is
 
user55340
MeatballWiki is a fork of c2.com, which was the original wiki. c2.com deals with programming (specifically agile / extreme). meatball was more the 'virtual communities' fork.
 
8:58 PM
@AshleyNunn Pets trolls?? "What do I do if my cat keeps licking me? I run from her but she won't stop. I've been living in my own back yard to keep away from her for a week but the bathroom facilities remain in her territory! What do I do??"
 
user15026
@JimmyHoffa You're doomed, deed the house over to the cat, start over. ;)
 
"What can I use deer urine for?"
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa hunting
 
Hey @Oded. Nice mole whacking.
 
@RobertHarvey he is now on the bad side of spamram
 
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