The Whiteboard

Jimmy Hoffa

2:27 AM

Oddly my work blocks chat.stackoverflow.com but not chat.stackexchange.com

Jim G.

2:42 AM

1

Q: I don't understand why algorithms are so special

I'm a student of computer science trying to soak up as much information on the topic as I can during my free time. I keep returning to algorithms time and again in various formats (online course, book, web tutorial), but the concept fails to sustain my attention. I just don't understand: why are ...

^^^ Wow. SMH. Can't believe that this one was reopened.

Nathan C. Tresch

5:39 AM

@Deco Thanks dude! Great community here I take it...

Chella

hi

could u help me in resolving issue with apache2 on ubuntu

Yannis Rizos

@Chella Is apache starting? If so, what does the error log say?

Chella

yeah it is runnning

when I try localhost in the browser, It shows "It works". But when I try

localhost/xyz it showing an error like" requested URL not found on the server"

Yannis Rizos

What does the error log say? It should be in /var/log/apache2

Chella

0

Q: I am running apache2 on ubuntu 12.04 localhost not working but showing "it works" page

I am running apache2 on ubuntu linux. I dont know what is the reason but unable to access my localsite which is placed on var/www/xyz. xyz is the site root folder here. when I try only localhost it is showing "It works". but If I try with the site like localhost/xyz.It is showing the following er...

apache2 ubuntu-12.04

I posted my question here with complete details. I try restarting got the aboe error

::1 - - [28/Jan/2013:10:40:04 +0530] "OPTIONS * HTTP/1.0" 200 126 "-" "Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) (internal dummy connection)"

this is the first line from the error log which is dated 28 i.e., yesterday.nothing with today's date

Yannis Rizos

5:55 AM

@Chella Is there a SERVERNAME directive in your httpd.conf?

Chella

It was worked till yesterday..!

where could I find that. I am novice to linux

mean file

Yannis Rizos

it should be in /etc/apache2/

Chella

I am afraid it is empty

Yannis Rizos

@Chella Hm, I noticed people are commenting on your AskUbuntu question, they are more qualified than me to help you, I haven't run an ubuntu box in ages.

Chella

okay thanks any way

Deco

6:12 AM

@NathanC.Tresch I like to think so :)

user55340

2:29 PM

@JimmyHoffa I wonder what it would take to get SSL on chat.SE.com and chat.SO.com. SSL would stop blocking a host by name.

user55340

Though, it also means that all hosts need a distinct IP address too - not a trivial cost addition at a hosting site.

TRiG

3:02 PM

@MichaelT With SNI, they wouldn't actually need distinct IP addresses. (IE on Windows XP does not understand SNI.)

Server Name Indication

Server Name Indication (SNI) is an extension to the SSL and TLS protocols that indicates what hostname the client is attempting to connect to at the start of the handshaking process. This allows a server to present multiple certificates on the same IP address and port number and hence allows multiple secure (HTTPS) websites to be served off the same IP address without requiring all those sites to use the same certificate. It is the conceptual equivalent to HTTP/1.1 virtual hosting for HTTPS. To make use of SNI practical, it is necessary that the vast majority of users use web browsers that...

user55340

@TRiG Ahh, quite good. Its been a few years since I've done apache web server configuration and things have apparently changed between then and now. I recall many conversations with managers explaining that either I need more ip addresses or only one site on the box can be ssl.

Jimmy Hoffa

3:46 PM

@MichaelT how do you figure SSL would stop blocking a host by name?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Host name that you are connecting to is part of the encrypted headers of an HTTP 1.1 message. Unless they block all the machines on the same virtual host, you can't pick which host you are blocking.

Jimmy Hoffa

I would still be asking my company's routers for a route to the IP

user55340

apache.org/server-status

user55340

Do they know if you are going to www.apache.org or tomee.apache.org?

user55340

Both virtual hosts are served by the same ip address.

user55340

3:51 PM

They could make it so that chat.stackoverflow.com routes to an internal "don't go there page" while chat.stackexchange.com doesn't by messing with dns, but that would be trivially circumvented by modifying your local dns config (or hosts file).

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I can get to SO, but not chat.so so yeah I see your point

user55340

I still wish this was feasible in the work environment here...

user55340

Shooting people with nerf guns is a manual process that doesn't scale well... unless it is integrated into the build server — MichaelT 31 mins ago

Jimmy Hoffa

I have long since forgotten any networking knowledge, traded in for years of experience managing and tweaking sql servers, as well as implementing CI processes and general OO development

I used to know something about networking, it is neat stuff

user55340

I'm curious if SNI has the request to the server that you are connecting to in the clear, or if it is encrypted... but if it is, which cert?

Jimmy Hoffa

3:55 PM

@MichaelT in one of the offices in my company they play a game where everyone signs up and is given a target, it's a circular linked list of targets and nobody knows who's targetting them, then as soon as you get your target with a watergun, you take their target and they're out and so on until it's 2 people who have eachother as targets.

@MichaelT The result? a bunch of the laziest schmucks I've ever worked with who couldn't care 2 balls about anything they do who write the worst hacky workarounds for every single problem I've ever seen.

user55340

classic "assassin" game... I've seen it on college campuses where an entire dorm floor is in on it. The dorm floor and classes are 'safe'.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT that type of silliness at work I have become suspect of in the workplace...

just because of this job

maybe I'm generalizing

user55340

Breaking a build is different than ongoing games... and its more of a "yep, I broke the build." thing.

user55340

The person who broke the build needs to fix it and be alerted to this fact, preferably quickly.

Jimmy Hoffa

I get it. I contracted around implementing CI processes at places for a while as a build engineer

One place I worked when I got the e-mail that went to the breaker of the build setup and presented it, the managers made me write an extension that looked up the persons manager in AD and CC them on the e-mail. Bloody micromanagers, glad I only contracted there..

Jimmy Hoffa

4:23 PM

@MichaelT Why are the nerf guns not feasible? Have you looked into other USB devices that would be? There's tons, alarms, little monsters that climb out of boxes etc

user55340

4:54 PM

@JimmyHoffa from shuffling around of management and thus where management sits, we had no director near us (the manager didn't care as long as it didn't leave the area). Then we got a director near us who was a former programmer and didn't care... He got moved and then we got a director who was previously overseeing the finance department and had the attitude that the programing environment should be the same as the environment when you walk in a bank - dead quiet and hushed whispers.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:52 PM

@MichaelT I don't know how bankers can survive on such a regimen of blandness. Creeps me out that there are people who like such a boring world.

user20683

7:03 PM

@JimmyHoffa on the plus side at least it's not a crazy pit where the marketing guys are screaming right next to you

Jimmy Hoffa

8:04 PM

@WorldEngineer Takes all kinds. I'm the kind who is so unbothered by that, I prefer an energetic environment

user55340

The best environment I had was thin walled 'offices' with a sliding glass door (some parts frosted so when sitting down you weren't as easily distracted by things in the hall). 99% of the time, the door was open and people would come and go as conversations need be had, but one could close the door and work in relative silence and very few disturbances.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I've found there are 2 distinct types of engineers in this regard. Those like me who work best with noise and stuff going on (except occasionally) and those who work best with silence. I tend to find this distinction plays out in the pair-programming-is-great folks vs the pair-programming-is-a-waste-of-two-peoples-time folks.

I think people are missing the forest for the trees on the topic, there are great engineers of both sorts, but people often think their type is the only type

almost feel like SE offices should have two totally separate environments walled off, one for the need-no-distraction-all-day-is-like-daycare-naptime folks and one for the needs-to-talk-and-whiteboard-with-others sorts

though mixing different types of folks is important, the quiet folks left undistracted may be more prone to sit their and work through a ton of problems gold-plating like crazy never leaving the zone before ever stopping to share and reintegrate their code and themselves with the functioning of the company, and a group of too many of the other sort may just turn into a loud mess to where they can't be left alone to work something out for greater than 10 minutes at a time, never entering the zone

user55340

The group that I was in was a small one at one time. 2 devs, 2 tech writers and a manager. We got stuck in a converted conference room once. Two 'C' shaped decks, tech writers on one side, devs on the other. In the corner in a 'cube' was the manager.

user55340

It was an interesting time for the team... and we did have fun (that was the nerf phase - our manager even got us all nerf guns for xmas).

Jimmy Hoffa

8:20 PM

My last job I sat in an office with my boss and another senior, my boss being the needs-quiet-no-distractions sort, and we both recognized we were polar opposites in this way but worked together great I think because we recognized this and curtailed ourselves accordingly (we were colleagues starting a new team before he got promoted to be the teams manager)

user55340

We also had a candy dish of M&Ms (plain) that the manager kept filled. On April 1, the other dev and I mixed in Skittles into the dish. Same size, same colors, very different flavor and texture. The facial expressions of people who were unaware of the change was priceless.

Jimmy Hoffa

hah

user55340

The best comment was from a marketing guy... "It taste like I shit a rainbow"

Yannis Rizos

8:41 PM

Hm, some extremely bad ideas in questions today...

-5

Q: Penalty for making mistakes

Ok, we have a jar where each developer has to put 1$ when they make a mistake. Like breaking a build or deleting some database. At the end of the year we take this money and go out eat. Has anyone ever developed a system for handlig something like this? Like who did what and when? Top 5 mistake...

mistakes

-3

Q: Why developers should not do beta testing project?

I am only php/html/css/javascript/graphics developer in the office working on website for company. How do i explain to my boss that i developers and beta testers are two different people. In other words he wants everything i develop to be perfect without single bug when i demonstrate it to him. ...

php testing bug beta

user55340

To the second one I want to say "Run far away"

user55340

I believe the simplest answer to the "Dev and Testing are not the same" is "Devs are the advocates of the system is working right. Testing is the advocate of the system is broken and they will find out how. Switching roles from one opposite to the other is very difficult."

Jimmy Hoffa

I would just go with your first comment

and the first Q is downright illegal (in the us) along with just being generically a dick thing to do

Not that a buck is a lot of money or even matters, but the idea that my employer is imposing a fee upon me for the work they asked me to do? They can go eat a bag of dicks.

user55340

8:57 PM

I think its more a "team thing"... but it should be symbolic, not monetary (that gets in another realm).

Jimmy Hoffa

yes exactly

user55340

I once broke a deployment that caused the on call person to get a phone call at ~2am. I brought doughnuts for the team the next day as an "opps". Realize that deployment breakage is a less than 1/month incident (when people are not being dumb).

Jimmy Hoffa

symbolic, that's fine, but when you make it monetary it's a substantive punishment

Yeah, I bought a six pack for one of the IT guys when he had to recover from a backup because I trashed a database

user55340

Especially when you have the code... ghads... the code I'm working on... it may be a 10% broken build rate.. and I think I was last aware of build 1721.

user55340

When I did tech support, there was a company that had a 'back channel' to the good engineers. Whenever they got a ticket that was resolved in a timely manner (you know tech support), they would buy a case of beer for the TAC (~60 TSEs).

user55340

9:01 PM

It got to the point that the senior types would jump on a ticket before a new hire could see it to make sure that it was done quickly and with high quality.

Jimmy Hoffa

Heh, the good ol' days. Shops that think such behaviour is acceptable are less and less anymore..

user55340

(they didn't want to miss out on the beer).

user55340

SGI in the late '90s.

user55340

Though beer bases are still not uncommon in Silicon Valley. Not as common as they once were...

Jimmy Hoffa

Yeah, silicon valley is still at the vanguard of cool places to work

I should have been smart and moved out there

user55340

9:02 PM

Still, if you're doing a $50k support contract for the computers, a few hundred extra bucks a year for cases of beer is small change when you consider the value add.

Jimmy Hoffa

The competition is undoubtedly even more fierce though than it is here.

user55340

The awkward part with living out there is to find a house that is less than $1M you need to have a 2h commute... and when the dot.com bust happened, there were people who went from $200k/year to blockbuster cashier.

Yannis Rizos

This isn't really a good question for Programmers. On one hand it seems like Career Advice which is explicitly Off Topic according to the FAQ. On the other it is Not Constructive because people can only speculate why there are more C#/Java postings than others. Further still it is Too Localized because this all may be because C++ isn't a high demand skill in your region. — maple_shaft 5 mins ago

user55340

Its very much a boom and bust cycle out there... and its not in a bust phase.

user55340

@YannisRizos His issue has been resolved and that SE DBAs have gotten some exercise in rare occurrences?

Yannis Rizos

9:05 PM

3/5 close reasons... <sigh>

Jimmy Hoffa

You say it's a boom/bust cycle, but for how long it's been doing what it does, it's had how many busts? '99-02, maybe late 80's? when else?

user55340

The first boom took some time, though one could argue the Gold Rush was the start of it all.

user55340

SV is a different world. Its a place where you can walk down a street wearing a T-shirt that says "SYN" and have people walk up to you and go "ACK!" and walk away. Its a place where a nice apartment in an ok part of town is $2k/month (head up to the nice parts of town and it gets well into the $5k/month or more).

user55340

The amount I paid for a house (double lot) in nearly rural Wisconsin is less than the amount for the up front money for the down payment for the loan for a condo.

user55340

I've had paychecks bounce out there when working for startups. I've seen a company go from a nice small company where nerf guns where shot and dogs walked the halls sometimes (seeing a Malamute drag a guy (leash attached to chair) down the hall was amusing) to a company that is completely outsourced and "IT Governance" bureaucracy.

user55340

9:19 PM

Its a place to experience... it isn't a place to stay.

user55340

And while some do make it big with the options on a young company... its a lottery. I've seen a "party" at SGI where the options were strung up in the park out house as toilet paper (same value). You're just as likely to be a "well, that didn't work" and move on to the next job and hope for the best again.

Jimmy Hoffa

sounds like a really cool place but yeah I can't imagine having a family there

Would have been cool to go there years ago, the experience alone no doubt puts you in a different league from most the competition in other regions

user55340

Raising a family... yea... I actually work with a former chef from San Francisco who moved out to north woods Wisconsin and became a computer programmer because SF wasn't a place to raise a family.

user20683

10:49 PM

@MichaelT SF is a rough town

user55340

When I was living out there, there was a vegan restaurant that my brother liked that was in the tenderloin. Walking (seriously, walk - don't park a car there) back after dark one could pass by some characters that were a bit worrying at times.

user41796

@YannisRizos - troll bait FTW
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/185203/is-it-possible-for-any-dedicated-person-to-be-a-programmer-and-is-it-really-use

user20683

@MichaelT I was born and raised in Palo Alto, my dad worked for SGI in the mid 90s, I don't really want to go back. Rather do Portland or Seattle.

user20683

the bay area's housing situation is madness

user41796

Props to ChrisF on the fast response to the troll bait.

user55340

10:58 PM

I feel the best props are the ones where after explaining things (where to post) to the poster, the poster voluntarily deletes the question (that would be rapidly closed otherwise).

user55340

Just a few min ago there was one of someone asking "would PHP developers find feature XYZ useful?" - its gone. Voluntarily removed by the author.

user41796

@MichaelT - true, but this one was clearly troll bait. I was a little disappointed to see comments popping up that were intended to be constructive. It's a little bit different than the voluntary deletion. Troll bait == hordes banging at the door. Voluntary deletion == a potentially useful future contributor and member of the community.

user41796

@MichaelT - so, I wasn't very clear there. Both are good to see deleted quickly, just in different ways.

user55340

@GlenH7 Yep. Quite different indeed. You were clear enough. Just a confluence of coincidental events that would otherwise confuse it.

user41796

@MichaelT - and sometimes the hordes don't give up easily. Here's the follow up, not-quite-as-trolly question from the previous example. programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/185206/…

Transcript for