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Programmers Blog

12:27 AM

Programmers Stack Exchange Blog: The Ultimate IT Professional’s Guide to Conducting an Online Job Search (Part I – The Basics)

Morons on November 05, 2012

My good friend Webster defines “Ultimate” as “the best or most extreme of its kind”. Needless to say that writing the Ultimate Guide to anything is no trivial task. But in this case it’s not too difficult, simply because of a loophole in the definition of the word. “The best or most extreme of its kind” implies “currently in existence”, and currently there is not much good information online with regard to this topic. Most (if not all) information online is bad, wrong or simply to basic to be useful. There are some good tips, but nothing that outlines a holistic, consistent, effective strategy to conducting and effective online job search. This article aims to do just that. …

11 hours later…

11:26 AM

6

A: Belongs on Stack Overflow and is a duplicate on Stack Overflow

So there are two ways to do this: Close as a duplicate here, but instead of being restricted to the current site's questions when choosing a duplicate target, allow Stack Overflow questions to be chosen as well. Close as "off-topic, belongs on Stack Overflow" here, but also allow people to opti...

@YannisRizos: ^^^ @MarkTrapp doesn't have any ideological or philosophical objections... Is it likely that SE could implement this feature? I think it would be very useful.

@JimG. No, it's highly unlikely.

Just add a comment pointing to the SO question, that's a simple enough solution. If it gets closed as off topic, the comment will be there pointing people to the duplicate, if it's migrated, the SO community will see your comment and close as a duplicate. Not worth an extra feature when there's already such a simple workaround. Up to SE to decide, obviously, but it's highly unlikely.

4 hours later…

3:07 PM

Don't know where else to ask this and I don't think kind of question is allowed.... I already have an BSc degree (ordinary level) in Software Development and if I finish this year I get an honours degree. Thing is I am finding this year boring and unfulfilling and because of this I am procrastinating a lot. I'm thinking I could do an internship instead where I gain real world experience.

Would an internship be better than an honours degree? A lot of employees want an honours degree for a graduate but in the long term would experience be better?

3:34 PM

What are some python hobby projects a freelancer must have on his portfolio...?

3:45 PM

@Jonny In the long term experience is better (I don't even mention my degree in my CV anymore, who cares after 10+ years in the field). That said, how do you expect to reach the long term, if you're un-hirable right now? I'm assuming you're somewhere in Europe, given the academic lingo you're using (UK?), but in any case since you're already doing the degree right now, I'd say finish it.

Be on the lookout for exciting internships, but don't just give up on your degree...

3 hours later…

6:33 PM

@YannisRizos Your answer to the what triggered lambda's is totally missing any details about continuation-passing-style/closures which are pretty important to why lambda's have come back from the lisp graveyard. What merits a question turning into a community wiki?

@JimmyHoffa Why not an answer of your own?

I grant you link to papers which likely detail some of that, but since most people who visit that question will only read your answer due to the score/size difference it has with others, a gentle head nod towards those concepts might be worth while

My answer is missing a ton of things and honestly I have no idea why people keep upvoting it...

I do not for a moment believe greater than 5% of people who run into questions with a score that high and see an answer that has a score like that and such an authoritative appearance ever reads any other answers on the page

Which is why I wonder what the criteria are for making a question a community wiki?

It's a good question and you have a good answer, but you can't control the voting for which some other answers on the page deserve at least equal attention

My recommendation: Create a new answer, then comment explaining what is missing and link to your new answer.

6:37 PM

I think the next edit will turn it into CW automatically... Whatever that edit might be.

Good idea @ThomasOwens

That brings up a question I've had; is it poor taste to answer a question and comment on the other answers pointing out their deficiencies? It feels lame, but occasionally I see questions with like 3 answers that are simply wrong and the answer at the bottom of 4 is unlikely to get much attention

I don't like significantly changing the content or meaning of another person's answer. It's one thing to take some of their answers and fix links or clean up the writing or formatting. It's another to write a whole new section. It's not readily obvious who wrote what, and I know I'd prefer to be credited for my work and contributions in something other than a "last edited by" box and the edit history.

@JimmyHoffa As long as you're specific about it, I think that's part of the point of comments. Rather than just down voting or not voting at all, explain what the answer is lacking or why it doesn't answer the question.

@JimmyHoffa I've cleaned up some of the off topic / discussion-y comments in my answer, so your comment will be a bit more visible.

If it's totally wrong, down vote. If it's only missing a piece, comment and mention it.

Anybody who is l33t with Hibernate or JPA on an Oracle database would be helpful to me right now...

6:42 PM

@ThomasOwens I think it looks crappy when I write an answer and then comment on the other answers basically telling them they're wrong. I usually just hope the OP figures it out. The former makes it appear like I'm taking the gamification too far

@JimmyHoffa There are two things to consider: the usefulness of the answer and the rightness of an answer.

@JimmyHoffa Don't tell them they are wrong. Instead, tell them that you have a different opinion and ask them to evaluate your answer.

A wrong answer is not useful and should be down voted. A comment that explains why the answer is wrong is helpful to people who read the question and for the author to perhaps clarify or fix the answer.

An answer can have varying degrees of rightness and completeness. A right but incomplete answer (one that is still useful) probably shouldn't be downvoted. But if you (or someone else) has an answer that covers the other points, a summary of what these other points are and link(s) to the answer(s) that address them can be helpful.

7:25 PM

Ok, this is the 2nd time @YannisRizos has edited one of my meta posts, I've rolled back the edit, and he re-implements the edit and locks the post. Can a 3rd party moderator please step in here? @maple_shaft @ThomasOwens

-3

Q: How does the community feel about letting our blog writers earn a bit of money by using affiliate links?

How does the community feel about our blog writers earning a bit of money when writing articles for our blogs in this fashion? It should be noted that all articles get reviewed by a few different users before posting, and we would make it a requirement that the articles are truthful about the bo...

discussion blog

If I do anything to that post, it will be to delete it. I've read the full chat log, starting from the point that Yannis linked to. This was another user's question and he didn't want to post it on Meta. There was absolutely no reason for you to post it.

@ThomasOwens He didn't say he didnt want the question asked, only that he didn't want to ask it himself. Why not ask him first before trying to correct a problem that might not even exist?

I think his question provides context for the question that is important

in Programmers Blog, 2 hours ago, by Morons

@YannisRizos I'm not asking this in meta

Yes, that's what I was referring to

I'm not trying to ask on behalf of him, I'm trying to ask the question and use him as an example as I think it provides context to the question

I don't know the reasoning behind what he wanted. But he said that he wasn't going to ask it on Meta. That doesn't give you or anyone else permission to bring it up on Meta.

7:32 PM

@ThomasOwens wait wat?

Do users need permission from us now to ask things on Meta?

If you're also curious for your own reasons, go ahead and ask. But there's no need to bring other people into it.

@maple_shaft No. But Morons said that he wasn't going to ask in Meta. There's no need to bring him up in the conversation.

There's no need to ask questions for the sake of asking for other people and then dragging them through it, explicitly when they said they didn't want to ask it.

@ThomasOwens As far as I am considered people can and should ask whatever they want whenever they want... just be prepared for people to tell you that your idea is bad and you should feel bad :)

@ThomasOwens I'm fine with the edit Shog did, although I personally didn't read the comment that way and thought that it would be fine to quote someone from a public chat room

@Rachel on an unrelated note... why is your name in italics?

If Morons had asked me to edit the post, I would have been happy to. I didn't like the fact Yannis removed half the question and locked the post

7:37 PM

The part that was removed was unnecessary.

@maple_shaft I have no idea :) Now I"m curious too

You're a room owner, @Rachel.,

@ThomasOwens I disagreed it was unnecessary as it added context, and I thought he had no right making such a dramatic edit to the question the way he did

@Rachel No more context was necessary and it didn't change the intent of the question.

7:55 PM

@ThomasOwens Although the core question may have been the same, the edit completely changed the tone of the question. The tone of the initial post was about asking on behalf of someone else who is volunteering their time to share their knowledge. The revised version just sounded like I wanted to make some money.

But Shog took care of it. Thanks @ThomasOwens and @maple_shaft for your input :)

@Rachel Next time you want to bring something on Meta, don't make it about an individual. "One of the blog writers asked in chat if it would be OK to add affiliate links to his blog posts." is what rubbed me the wrong way, if you had written something like "There was a discussion in the blog chat room about..." I'd have absolutely no issue with your question. You should have also linked to the actual discussion, not just Moron's question.

Simple thing: Meta isn't about individuals. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to believe you had any intention of calling out anyone on purpose, but that's how I read it, and I will react to Meta posts that are calling out individuals. Keep in mind that I was the one insisting the discussion be brought up on Meta, I could have asked myself if I wasn't waiting for Morons...

I wasn't "calling someone out" and I never even mentioned any name. I was referencing a question someone posted in a public chatroom as context for my question. The question wasn't even for me since I'm not one of the blog writers anymore.

You really should have contacted me in chat instead of being so aggressive in comments, removing half the question, then locking it.

But its over and done with, I've moved past it already

@Rachel Hm? You are not? Then why the hell did you even bring this up?

(honest question)

Ummm because you brought it up?

No, I mean why even bother post on Meta...

8:10 PM

Because I like to help people, and I can understand not wanting to post a question like that on your own when you're the one that stands to gain by it

Particularly on meta with the way voting works there

If you can understand not wanting to post a question like that on your own, then you should have gone all the way...

I'm not saying the question shouldn't have been asked, it should.

Honestly, I think you should have been the one to post the question since you were the one talking with him and it would easily be understood that you were asking on behalf of someone else instead of for your own gain

Hm?

I'm still involved in the blog...

I didn't think you did any writing... the only thing I saw you post was a copy of one of the highly-viewed SO questions that is now deleted.

Also, you're a moderator and having a moderator ask something like that carries a different tone than having the user writing the blog posts ask that question

So? I may write something in the future...

@Rachel Heh, to that I'd add that when a moderator edits your question, you shouldn't really rollback.

In any case: Next time you want to help someone, ask them if they want your help first...

8:16 PM

@YannisRizos No, if you disagree with the way your question has been modified because it completely changes the tone of your question, you should roll it back regardless of who edited it

Being a moderator doesn't make you better than regular users

It just means you have access to more features and have a bigger responsibility to the community

@Rachel and that responsibility includes reacting to Meta posts calling out individuals...

@YannisRizos Well next time try talking with the person instead of posting aggressive comments (particularly ones in all caps), ignoring what the user is saying and removing half the question, then locking it

@Rachel You've also ignored my comments...

No, I was explaining why I thought your comments were nothing to be concerned about. And since when does someone else's behavior become a rationality for your own behavior?

Look, just drop the subject and try to learn from it for next time

2 hours later…

10:25 PM

@YannisRizos @ThomasOwens @Rachel This done with, and we have our answer. There's no harm done, Lets drop it.

@Morons You realize you're saying this 2 hours after we dropped it? ;P

Guy Fawkes day is no day for dropping any kind of dispute.

@YannisRizos But you guys didn't kiss an make up..

@YannisRizos how do you view the history of a post?

forget about it...

10:44 PM

i figured it out posts/[Post no]/revisions

11:05 PM

@Morons: Months ago, I said that I believe if @Rachel and @YannisRizos enjoyed a beer together, all would be understood, all would be forgiven, and all would be forgotten.

11:34 PM

Is there any SE site for questions about ITSM or would questions about ITSM be considered on-topic here?

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