The Whiteboard

Yannis Rizos

12:06 AM

First time answer, manually converted to CW... Why?

Noobesque mistake, or trying to avoid rep loss?

user20683

@YannisRizos based on total rep I'd vote newbie

Yannis Rizos

@WorldEngineer 467 rep on SO, not a total noob... And a more upvoted answers than zero scored or downvoted ones... Anyways, it doesn't really matter.

I thought he might have been testing the waters a bit...

user20683

that's possible too

user20683

we do have about the same reputation as this guy 4.bp.blogspot.com/_nupcQjieU9o/TMNfRpxICpI/AAAAAAAAADM/…

Yannis Rizos

:)

Rachel

1:42 AM

@YannisRizos Don't base your opinion on people from their rep. I was a total SE noob for the longest time, even though I had a few thousand rep. It's all just a fun game to me :) I don't even think I noticed the list of stuff you get from rep until it told me I had access to moderator tools, and even then I only looked because I didn't want to break anything

user20683

2:33 AM

@Rachel I think if you've a specific question for a nominee, ask it in the election comments. More general questions go in meta I think.

user20683

@YannisRizos now that I look at it, that is a tad on the CW answer

Rachel

2:50 AM

@YannisRizos Hey, were you once called ZaphodBeeblebrox?

user20683

He was for a little while

Rachel

Hrrrm I wasn't aware of that, thanks :)

Only noticed cause I'm a nerd with nothing better to do than browse election candidates on a Friday night and saw some replies to him using @ZaphodBeebleBrox. I guess I should get off and actually do something with my evening.... like play video games :)

user20683

@Rachel I should sleep, I've work in the morning, alas insomnia

Yannis Rizos

11:48 AM

@Rachel Rachel yes, for most of January....

@Rachel Oh, it's not about opinion... I fished that post from the review page, and I was just curious... I guess if I really wanted to know I'd left OP a comment... I was just making chat small talk :P

Ubermensch

1:28 PM

@YannisRizos Do moderators are selected based entirely on votes

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Yes... What else?

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Hi!Hope we can continue our conversation

Votes entirely by users

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch During the election phase you can vote for up to three candidates, in order of preference. There are some minimum requirements for candidates, 300 rep and to be in "good standing" which mostly translates in that they shouldn't have a history of abusing the system (spam / offensive posts, etc)...

On the trilogy sites, there are some badge requirements as well, but we aren't yet big enough and badge requirements would be too restrictive here. For example only two users would be eligible if the badge requirements for SO were applied on Programmers...

Ubermensch

1:45 PM

May I know how the rules are framed

Yannis Rizos

Actually four users, with the current dataset on SEDE, which is more than a month old, so there could be more...

Ubermensch

@Rachel Hi

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch What rules?

Ubermensch

Regarding the 300 rep and badge requirements

Are they configurable? Also do all stack exchange sites follow a identical pattern for voting up/down, badges or they can be modified by the community

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch The minimum requirements are at the sidebar of the election page. For the badge requirements you'll have to visit the election pages for each site...

For example: stackoverflow.com/election

@Ubermensch All requirements are set by Stack Exchange, at their own discretion... And will change over time as the site grows...

@Ubermensch A while after the election, all election data will be available... You can find collected statistics on completed elections here, and there are also some interesting statistics on current elections too.

Ubermensch

1:52 PM

Thank you. I am glancing the details

@YannisRizos Is the moderator election for one year?

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch You can also download the election statistics for completed elections and use OpenSTV to look through them. And elections are held when Stack Exchange feels there is need for additional moderators, or a moderator steps down. In our case, Anna becoming a Community Manager is what triggered the election...

@Ubermensch And moderators serve for life :) Unless they step down voluntarily or are asked to by Stack Exchange Inc...

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Great reflexes Yannis. You always seem to have an answer

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Well I am running for moderator, so I've done my research :)

Ubermensch

Sure, I have seen your nomination

Does Stack Exchange use OpenSTV

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Well I have no idea what they use internally, but that's the format of the available stats so I think we can safely assume they do...

Ubermensch

1:59 PM

@YannisRizos What is Community Manager? and how could one be?

Yannis Rizos

4

Q: "community evangelism team" vs "community manager"

In the Stack Exchange Podcast #06 (at the end) they talk about the role of a new SE "community evangelism team". Is this what a "community manager" does?

discussion

Anna explains it best, as always :)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos So community managers work with and work in SE. Am i right?

I followed this link to deduce my logic

85

Q: What is the meaning of CHAOS? Is it related to the PSI (Ψ) character?

I've seen a number of users with a PSI character in their names doing strange mysterious things on some Stack Exchange sites. What does it all mean?

discussion announcements chaos

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Yes, it's a position within Stack Exchange Inc... It's fairly new, so not many details are available...

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos What's the Programmers Town Hall Chat for?

@ThomasOwens Hi

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch It's an one hour chat with all the candidates...

Thomas Owens

2:07 PM

Morning.

Ubermensch

Is it a chat between the candidates

Thomas Owens

Kind of. It's for the candidates to answer questions and for the community to get to know the people they are voting for.

So people not running show up, ask questions, and learn about the people who want to be the next moderators.

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Not between the candidates, but for everyone else to ask us anything you'd like...

Ubermensch

Thank you

Thomas Owens

And if you can't make it, the logs are going to be posted on Meta.

So that way, you can read them later before you vote.

Yannis Rizos

2:11 PM

Adding to what Thomas said, if you are certain that you can't make it (as it's late at night for us Europeans), you can always post your questions as comments on our nomination stumps during the nomination phase, or even ask Meta questions (make sure you use the election tag)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Can a single voter vote for three candidates?

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Yes everyone gets three votes

Thomas Owens

It's priority-based voting. You pick a first choice, second choice, and third choice.

Yannis Rizos

And you vote in order of preference

Thomas Owens

I'm not sure what the exact algorithm is, but it's preferential ordered somehow.

Yannis Rizos

2:13 PM

@ThomasOwens openstv.org/ranked-choice-voting

Thomas Owens

@YannisRizos Interesting. I'll have to poke at that. Thanks.

Yannis Rizos

@ThomasOwens It doesn't say much as to what the exact algorithm is, but since election data are available in OpenSTV format... We can guess a bit :)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Are you sure that SE uses the same openstv algorithm

Sorry for posting this again. Is number of votes the only criteria for selecting the moderator

Also, can anybody post a link to the last election results in OpenSTV format. I can't get the file from Stack Overflow(may be I am incapable)

Hope the guys at statistics would help us figure this out

Yannis Rizos

31

Q: How are moderator election votes counted, in plain English?

The election page sidebar states that Stack Exchange elections use the Meek STV vote-counting method: After 4 days, the final voting results will be freely downloadable from this page forever, and we will calculate the 3 winners using OpenSTV with the Meek STV method. How does it work? I su...

support election

Found it!

Ubermensch

Great work. Going through the explanation

Yannis Rizos

2:22 PM

@Ubermensch For the latest SO elections: stackoverflow.com/election/download-result/2

Ubermensch

Is this the result for Stack Overflow Moderator Election 2012

Yannis Rizos

yeap

Nov 2011 actually, the most recent one...

Ubermensch

I deducted it from the file

and I hope yeap means yes

Yannis Rizos

Urban Dictionary: yeap = yea + yup, slang for yes :)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Have you gone through the election model. Political science is one of my key areas of interest. So I would be asking more question. Hope you aren't too bothered

Yannis Rizos

2:31 PM

@Ubermensch I wouldn't say I've given much thought to it, but ask away :)

Ubermensch

Can't properly understand ask away

Yannis Rizos

Feel free to ask me anything, is what I meant :)

Ubermensch

Great and the same is reciprocated from me

Do you know how votes are counted

If the answer is in negative, do you believe others running for the moderators are aware of this model.

@DipanMehta Hello Dipan

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch I found out Meek STV was the algorithm used on Stack Overflow elections, last November when the latest election took place. I did some minimal research on the model, out of pure curiosity, as a voter. I have no idea if the other candidates knew about it, but I'm pretty sure every candidate did some research on the model before posting their nominations.

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Are you sure how this model works? STV

This model is used for elections to the Royal Statistical Society

Yannis Rizos

2:47 PM

@Ubermensch Oh, not really :) It's not a prime area of interest for me, so I can't honestly say I am fully aware of the model.

Ubermensch

What do you opine of other moderators and other stack exchange sites?

The model seems to be a bit difficult to understand. I am going through it (I am a bit decent in High School Maths)

What I could make of till now is that STV stands for Single Transferable Vote

ChrisF

@matthieu If you're voting to close (which you can now you've got 3K rep) there's no need to flag as well.

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Well I'm only active on Code Review, and the site is still in beta so it's too early to tell. I've had some minimal interaction with SO mods on Meta Stack Overflow, and I'm pretty satisfied from their work (from a voter's perspective).

Counting Single Transferable Votes

The single transferable vote (STV) is a voting system based on proportional representation and preferential voting. Under STV, an elector's vote is initially allocated to his or her most-preferred candidate. After candidates have been either elected (winners) by reaching quota or eliminated (losers), surplus votes are transferred from winners to remaining candidates (hopefuls) according to the surplus ballots' ordered preferences. The system minimizes "wasted" votes, provides approximately proportional representation, and enables votes to be explicitly cast for individual candidates rath...

@Ubermensch As for our current moderators on Programmers, you should read my answer on a related Meta question.

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Frankly, have you understood the wikipedia article. I am just going through an article from Royal Statistical Society

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Well I didn't understand all of it, just thought I'd share in case you do a better job with it than me :)

@Ubermensch When I first stared researching the model, this illustration helped a lot to get the basic idea.

Ubermensch

3:01 PM

@YannisRizos It would take me a couple of days to get used to it.

@YannisRizos You provided me a link to download SO election results. Is it downloaded from stackoverflow.com/election. I can't find a download link there

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Click on one of the two elections, and look for the "Download the election data" link. The data are per election, so they are linked to from each election page.

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Thank you. Do you have a copy of OpenSTV. The download is just a text file and I am going through it

The basic idea behind this big discussion is my belief that both the voter and the candidate should have full understanding of the electoral system

@ChrisF Hello

Matthieu

3:16 PM

@ChrisF : Will do. wasn't sure it was as effective, and didn't had any comment about that so far. And honestly was going after the marshall badge (29 flags left) too =)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos This site also has a good explanation modernballots.com

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Sorry I went offline for a bit, network problems... Here's what OpenSTV output looks like for the latest SO elections...

And it seems that I keep having network problems. Could someone ping me back, so I know my chat messages are getting through?

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos That's OK (offline) Yannis(Hope I can call you). From where did you get this output

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch OpenSTV for windows... And yes of course you can call me Yannis...

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Would ping you for the next 30 minutes

@YannisRizos But OpenSTV is not open source, I believe

Yannis Rizos

3:22 PM

@Ubermensch It's a bit weird. It is open source, but they ask for a small Paypal donation for the source code.

but their license is a bit restrictive and I don't think it's compatible with any of the OSI licenses

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Frankly, Did you understand the output

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Yes but it took me some time :)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos You can call me uber/ubermensch. It's not my real name though

@YannisRizos In such case, can you identify a difference between the number of votes

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch You'll need to clarify that a bit.

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos yeap The number of votes polled as given in SO is 5004 while the ballot contains only 4994 votes. Hope you might have found the reason

Yannis Rizos

3:34 PM

@Ubermensch That's interesting, I haven't even noticed the discrepancy.

@Ubermensch I think you should ask that on Meta Stack Overflow. It might be a simple mistake on the count shown in the election page...

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Nay, that's the way it works I hope. Ping me to reveal it

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch Well reveal it :)

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos I believe 10 haven't voted for anybody. They might have thought that all were imbecile

@YannisRizos That's why the message "Ballot file contains 4994 non-empty ballots." I amn't using OpenSTV. The download is just a text file and I working on a spreadsheet. Want some more stats

Yannis Rizos

@Ubermensch But the election page says 5004 voted, I don't think it's that. One guess would be that 10 people did actually vote, but during the election phase they either deleted their accounts or were put in temporary suspension for abusing the system, so although they did vote, their ballots where nullified (automatically).

Anyways I have to go now, be back tomorrow for more :) bye, always nice chatting with you

Ubermensch

@YannisRizos Yes you are right. That would have been the case. But vote is still a vote and it is considered at the time of voting

@YannisRizos Great chat Yannis. would be available on Monday. Ping me back with a message to have stats about Anna Lear if you are interested (I amn't sure whether I am fully right, must check with SO guys still it would be worth watching)

@YannisRizos Also thanks for intriguing me into this concept

@YannisRizos Anna Lear got the most number of votes, 1806 in the Stack Overflow Moderator elections

@AnnaLear Hi . Going by the ballot data for SO Moderator elections, I deduced that 1806 voted for you with 756 voters selecting you as a first choice. Is my deduction right? Kindly reply so that I could understand the voting system better

@YannisRizos This is what I have made. Would come back on Monday

Anna Lear

5:03 PM

@Ubermensch I think so, but I've never really looked into the specific details of the voting process.

user2334

7:53 PM

@Ubermensch 771 people voted for Anna as their first choice: you can see it in Open STV in group 1. After round two, the lowest scoring candidate (ircmaxwell) was eliminated, and 25 people who had him as their first choice had Anna as their second choice, which brought her total up to 796. Round 3, Jeremy Banks eliminated, 26 had Anna as their next choice

user2334

Round 4, 35 transferred from Stu Thompson; round 5, 34 transferred from George Stocker; round 6, 43 transferred from adwoodland; round 7, 94 transferred from Brad Larson, which put Anna over the threshold

user2334

At Round 7, Anna had 1028 votes; it peaked in round 8 with 1149 votes, then was refactored down to 903 in round 9 (the threshold at that time being 882) by transferring surplus votes to the other candidates

user2334

In Round 10, when the election completed, she had 887 votes after surplus votes were transferred, with 876 being the threshold

ChrisF

8:41 PM

@Ubermensch Sorry I couldn't hang around - had to walk the dog.

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