The Biosphere

WYSIWYG

9:29 AM

@anongoodnurse are you there?

anongoodnurse

9:41 AM

@WYSIWYG I am now.

WYSIWYG

yep I saw you coming :)

perhaps I am hasty with closing stuff

but I am not a dogmatic who bombards others with facts

anongoodnurse

Hmmm...

WYSIWYG

I must admit that I am biased against the general kind og questions

anongoodnurse

I don't know how to interpret your comments. Either you are not open to extrapolation, or you are too ...

I don't know. Too tied to specific evidence (that's not different, is it?)

WYSIWYG

wrt extrapolation of animal data to human situation I just said that it depends on how the question is defined

anongoodnurse

9:46 AM

Or I extrapolate too much. Maybe we do that more in medicine than you do in a purer science?

I don't like questions where no research is presented,

but I did fancy this one.

WYSIWYG

I am slightly confused about what extrapolation you are talking about: extrapolation of question or extrapolation of the data?

anongoodnurse

I am sometimes frustrated by what goes on here.

data.

WYSIWYG

okay. Well medicos are optimistic we are trained to question stuff :P

anongoodnurse

I've been trying to be quiet(er) about closing questions because I thought the community thinks we close too quickly.

WYSIWYG

Okay wrt extrapolation of data: Just today someone send me a mail about an article in Nature about usage of p-values.

anongoodnurse

9:49 AM

But nonsense questions are not closed. This one had a good answer. I'm unsure of what to do.

I did cancer research. On mice. We certainly weren't concerned with cancer in mice. Even as a molecular biologist, I extrapolated.

WYSIWYG

apparently some psychology journal has banned papers containing P values because the statistics were too often used to support lower-quality research…..

anongoodnurse

I hate p-values myself.

WYSIWYG

point is that though p-value might not provide complete information it is not sensible to totally distrust it

anongoodnurse

They're next to useless the way they are used.

WYSIWYG

Yes. It is the problem of practice. Same with experimental methods.

anongoodnurse

9:53 AM

I wrote a paper where I know I stretched the statistical analysis. Not in my field, though.

Early on in graduate school.

WYSIWYG

Cell line data may not explain in-vivo condition but it is stupid to not ban workin on cell lines.

Because whether a data is extrapolatable or not depends on what inference is going to be derived out of it

anongoodnurse

Then why are you so reluctant to accept that if rodents and birds can live gnotobiotically, so can humans?

WYSIWYG

I am not reluctant. I am just saying that extrapolations should be carefully done.

I am being a moderatist here :P

anongoodnurse

This is a site, not a paper...

Many answers are far less supportable than mine was.

i dunno, maybe I'm not seeing things properly.

WYSIWYG

I am not against your answer. You did mention the background. My argument was related to this question and this one precisely : Do animal experiments really mean anything when it comes to extrapolating findings to humans?

anongoodnurse

9:57 AM

I saw a question about brain transplantation that went unclosed.

WYSIWYG

I think I voted to close it

There are many others which I think should be closed but it doesn't get sufficient votes

anongoodnurse

Do animal experiments really mean anything when it comes to extrapolating findings to humans?
Of course they do. Where would we be without them?

WYSIWYG

for e.g. someone asking about vascularization near the ear

How can anatomy simply be explained by words

anongoodnurse

but the brain transplanttion one... for goodness sake, that can't be done. And no one said so.

WYSIWYG

Do animal experiments really mean anything when it comes to extrapolating findings to humans? Yes they do but question is how much can you extrapolate

There have been problems with overclaims

anongoodnurse

10:00 AM

I mean, yes, we can reconnect the vessles, and the tissue won't die, but it would be as useful as a potato in someone's head.

But there are problems with underclaims as well.

WYSIWYG

That is why I think that this site should be more rigorous with general questions

people ask silly questions in stackoverflow too. But they must have made some attempt at programming

anongoodnurse

As I said, maybe I just can't see through a filter that meshes with yours/others.

WYSIWYG

here people just ask whatever they can ponder over while drinking beer alon

anongoodnurse

exactly.

and I really dislike the less thoughtful questions - "I dye my hair and the roots are greyer now, Why?"

OK, well, I see your point now.

WYSIWYG

Sometimes I might ignore a decent question because it sounds like a layman question

But my decision is not permanent

:P

anongoodnurse

10:05 AM

well, I will try to nail down the question and see if it can get reopened.

I was excited to get to discuss the microbiome, and the fact that germ-free models exist.

I think, duh, that a surprising number of illnesses will be due to gut flora.

And I really don't mind if bad questions are closed, even if I ask them. I just didn't think this was POB.

WYSIWYG

I voted to reopen. Made an edit too

anongoodnurse

Thanks for your help. Oh, good! Thanks!

:D

WYSIWYG

haha..

anongoodnurse

(It doesn't take so much to make me happy!)

Sorry for my incalcitrance.

WYSIWYG

(what is the threshold then?)

Debates are welcome. What is a life without an argument

anongoodnurse

10:09 AM

I don't know.

:)

WYSIWYG

You know when I was in high school I was interested in biology that pertains to humas

*humans

anongoodnurse

lol

I know. Your dad is a physician, right?

WYSIWYG

I used to dislike botany and all. Now I have come to hate anthropocentric biology

yep.

anongoodnurse

I love botany.

I never had a biology course that I didn't love.

WYSIWYG

I hate to see yet another article on cancer.

anongoodnurse

10:11 AM

We did it wrong for decades!

all wrong.

so sad in retrospect.

WYSIWYG

It is not that I hated botany. I never had a great interest in it. I wanted to learn about microbes and diseases etc. Now I am averse to reading about things like that :P

I just want to study general biology.

anongoodnurse

cell biology?

WYSIWYG

I cant say we did it wrong. We overclaimed

:P

Yes something like evolutionary cell biology is what I want to do after PhD

anongoodnurse

yes. Overclaimed, and presupposed much.

WYSIWYG

Hopefully last year for me.. :P

anongoodnurse

10:14 AM

heres a question for you: do you have a favorite organelle?

(I know that feeling!)

I never did a post doc.

WYSIWYG

I have started liking chloroplast

anongoodnurse

:)

I loved the Golgi apparatus.

WYSIWYG

are you doing research or you are practising ?

or both?

anongoodnurse

Practicing. Stopped research almost immediately after med school.

Happier doing research, though.

WYSIWYG

I need a post-doc. Have to learn new stuff: that is the primary reason. Job opportunity is secondary.

anongoodnurse

10:16 AM

But just no grant money for females back then.

It must be nice...

WYSIWYG

Why?? That sounds extremely stupid!!

I meant no grants for females.. ridiculous

About grant money?

yep

Oh, it was terrible!

when was this?

10:17 AM

Look at Rosalind Franklin, how she was treated.

It was horrible.

early 70s

WYSIWYG

I am sure you are not that old

anongoodnurse

oh, yes I am

WYSIWYG

as old as Rosalind I meant

anongoodnurse

Older. She died young.

No, when I was doing research, a woman had to hitch her wagon to a male researcher to get grant money.

Not for me in the end.

Missed the window by a couple of decades, maybe a little less.

Got in on the golden age of medicine for a decade, though. :)

WYSIWYG

That is bad. But I could have easily believed that you are a grad studeny

anongoodnurse

10:20 AM

Now that's gone, too.

Haha! I sound young?

WYSIWYG

Very

anongoodnurse

Hmm.

I guess that's good. :)

My knees disagree. Be good to your knees, you'll miss them when they're gone!

WYSIWYG

I haven't lost faith in science yet :P

anongoodnurse

How do older people sound, btw?

WYSIWYG

Have hope on stem cells. You can get your knees back

anongoodnurse

10:22 AM

(no, it's pretty clear that you haven't lost faith.

Lol!

WYSIWYG

How do older people sound. Well more than sounding like something you can easily make out by they way they write

anongoodnurse

I'll probably miss that window, too! :D

WYSIWYG

like my dad would write letters in points

:P

anongoodnurse

:D

So, more authoritarian? More organized?

More wise?

WYSIWYG

Not really.

:P

But most of them are locked in their time and don't change

and you can always tell what is different

anongoodnurse

10:25 AM

Well, I am old, but I don't think I'm old mentally...

and certainly not as wise as I should be.

WYSIWYG

You inspire me with that. I don't want to ever be a grumpy old man

anongoodnurse

Thanks for talking this out with me.

You won't be. The world you will see will awe you.

WYSIWYG

There is nothing called an ultimate wisdom I feel

Thanks for the reassurance.

anongoodnurse

I'll settle for antepentultimate wisdom! :)

Your attitude is really good.

WYSIWYG

Thank you :) Is it early morning for you ?

anongoodnurse

10:28 AM

I will erase snarky last comment.

Yes. I'm a terrible insomniac.

I love the night.

WYSIWYG

I gathered quite some wisdom in last 3-4 years. I was a robot before :D

anongoodnurse

And how advanced in years are you now? May I ask?

WYSIWYG

Not a robot in the sense of repetitive actions and no conscience

I was a science fanatic and an angry kid

adventurous too

anongoodnurse

Yep. Prefrontal, it sounds like.

WYSIWYG

but not so refined when it came to appreciation of art

anongoodnurse

10:30 AM

lets see... you would be about 26? That seems too old.

WYSIWYG

How advanced in years? I am 27

anongoodnurse

Almost nailed it!

WYSIWYG

well last year of PhD

easy calculation

College in 17

anongoodnurse

Your prefrontal cortex finished maturing. Something - everything - changes when that happens.

WYSIWYG

+4 = 21 + 5 =26

anongoodnurse

10:32 AM

That's what I was basing it on.

WYSIWYG

I don't think my cortex has finished yet.. If you believe in the right left asymmetry then I think the left part is catching up

anongoodnurse

I remember the year my prefrontal cortex finished developing, it sounds farcical, but I remember so completely

WYSIWYG

not the left; the right

anongoodnurse

all of a sudden, I was more risk averse.

a total change.

WYSIWYG

I am a little conscious about things especially when I consume cannabinoids :D

anongoodnurse

10:34 AM

My son, my youngest, he is still pretty unsettled.

I was paranoid

WYSIWYG

I am not yet. I was frustrated when all my research projects failed

anongoodnurse

Well, that's pretty easy to understand.

WYSIWYG

I am starting on a new one- pure theoretical now. I was worried 2-3 months back because I didn't see an end

anongoodnurse

It's terribly frustrating to work hard and get few results.

Good! So you feel better now?

WYSIWYG

The topic was vague. Now I have some interesting info. I am just hoping to submit my thesis and go work on something interesting..

It takes 2 papers to submit thesis

That is all I want as of now.

anongoodnurse

10:37 AM

Do you hve one yet (I presume not)

You need two additional papers?

WYSIWYG

Nope. But I am not worried. I am sure I will get a decent job to survive.

I need 2. I have 0. So +2

anongoodnurse

I'm in the US. Where are you?

WYSIWYG

I am in India. I kinda knew you were in the US.

I was assuming somewhere in the central

Illinois I thought for some vaguereason

anongoodnurse

OK, so it is (what) around noon time or later there?

WYSIWYG

early evening

anongoodnurse

10:40 AM

LOL! Illinois!

WYSIWYG

Where are you then?

anongoodnurse

That is the most boring state in the union!

WYSIWYG

Night.. that means west

anongoodnurse

The second most boring: Pennsylvania.

WYSIWYG

Okay.. but you said it is still night. In Penn it must be coffee time

anongoodnurse

10:42 AM

Not yet. It's just before 6 a.m.

WYSIWYG

I had been to NY once. 2 years back.

anongoodnurse

What did you think?

WYSIWYG

1 year 5 months to be precise.

What did I think about what?

anongoodnurse

NY

WYSIWYG

I love the city. I like cities like that. I hate serenity of the countryside

anongoodnurse

10:44 AM

:D

You would be bored to tears in Pennsylvania! :)

WYSIWYG

I actually went to CSHL and then I wondered how can people survive their for entire PhD

anongoodnurse

I love New York - I live about 2,5 hours away, and go in a few times per year.

Why did CSHL make you wonder that?

WYSIWYG

It is pretty disconnected from civilization. The town looks as if it is unchanged since the time of Jefferson

anongoodnurse

(Was Watson still there when you went? No, I think not. What an idiot he is.)

WYSIWYG

yeah I said Hi to him :D

anongoodnurse

10:46 AM

Oh, yes! It's beautiful.

Was he digging ear wax out of his ears?

I know that's terrible to say, but he is so uncouth. Sold his Nobel Prize medal.

Did you ever meet Francis Crick?

WYSIWYG

Just walking with a grumpy face. He was happy that I said hi to him :P But he ignored another coursemate of mine :P

anongoodnurse

He is a lovely man, really lovely.

WYSIWYG

No I wish I could have.

anongoodnurse

And Rosalind is dead.

She should have shared the prize.

WYSIWYG

yep.. Was Wilkins a bad guy

I mean was he an a**hole

anongoodnurse

10:49 AM

Well, he did steal data...

I never met him.

Met Pauling though. Very funny guy,

WYSIWYG

I never met any famous people.

anongoodnurse

met a lot of the big ones back then. The only one I thought was an idiot was Watson.

You will be famous one day perhaps!

So watch out that you don't pick at your ears while you speak. :)

WYSIWYG

I wished that once. Now I just want to be knowledgeable

anongoodnurse

the pursuit of knowledge is a wonderful thing, it really is.

WYSIWYG

It gives a kick

anongoodnurse

10:53 AM

I hope nothing stops you from achieving your dream. :)

it's thrilling!

WYSIWYG

to know something new:) Hey now you are sounding like an old person

anongoodnurse

Breathtaking!

lol

WYSIWYG

Like old people say: May you achieve your dreams, May you do well, May god be with you.. lol

anongoodnurse

Live long and prosper!

(Spock said that. He died last night.)

Anyway, I've got to run. Thanks for the chat, I appreciate it. :)

WYSIWYG

haha.. There is this dialogue from an old Indian movie which translates to- "Life should be big, not long"

okay.. dont run too fast.. your knees will hurt

;) bye nice chatting to you :)

anongoodnurse

10:56 AM

lol!

same here. :D

WYSIWYG

@anongoodnurse you came back?? Coffee not ready yet eh?

Chris

5:52 PM

I understand this problem with the close votes - I am slower there now as well. except the question is obviously homework or without any effort.

WYSIWYG

8:31 PM

@anongoodnurse still around ?

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