Game Development - 2016-10-01

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Stephane Hockenhull

2:35 AM

3D modeling?

I'm making a 2D platformer but with 3D models.

yeah, roughly

but probably isometric

like New Mario Bros

sorry, I mean Ortho

If I use a perspective camera it'll probably be very close to parallel

or maybe cavalier projection

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^^^ Cavalier Projection ^^^

That is a 2D game (Prince of Persia). I'm looking into making a similar view but with 3D models.

The fun thing with 3D is I can try different projections for my "2D" game

hehehe... which I'll be doing.

Have you seen Double Dragon Neon ?

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They are 3D models but rendered as nearly flattened models to look like 2D sprites

so they're always above or behind the other, like the sprite-based original.

I'm going for a more anime style

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Similar to this

Except very tiny so I'm not putting as much detail.

I can't show yet but it's very close to that image in looks

I can show a very early practice run I did with a character from someone else (Shantae) without fancy shading nor outline tho...

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I did that to learn modeling, altho the style I'm working on is a bit different. more chibi.

yeah, that's normal. Shantae got ridiculously long hair and use it as a whip. That's the A-pose pre-skinning.

I tried doing a 3D version of her

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The original I tried 3D modeling :P

LOL

Some people were angry her skin done went lighter a bit in 2014, crying white-washing! HAHAHA

3:21 AM

Not sure if it's the PS3 doing something weird or what but I tried playing an original PS2 copy of Vice City and my god the motion blur was insane. Was it always that bad?

Stephane Hockenhull

bunch of idiots. She's a genie, from northern African mythology. People from there can still tan and lose tan. But they don't let facts get in the way of getting offended and all pissy :P

@Sie yes

@StephaneHockenhull Who thought that was a good idea is beyond me.

Stephane Hockenhull

@Sie motion blur was all the rage on PS2 because it was free in terms of GPU time and the "next gen" thing to do

Yuck.

Stephane Hockenhull

And they don't tone it down when the framerate drops so it gets very messy

I have vice city and pulled out my PS2 a few years ago, had the same reaction

I dunno how I managed to play it the first time.

3:30 AM

Personally I'm not a huge fan of Vice City to begin with. However I don't remember the motion blur being so bad in San Andreas. However I haven't played the PS2 version of that in ages.

I was younger then I probably should have been when I experienced GTA SA so perhaps nostalgia covered it up or I didn't know any better.

Take some Vaseline and smear it over your monitor and then go play GTA. That'll give you an idea.

But yes something like that.

7 hours later…

user92578

10:11 AM

user image

user92578

I'm improving the missile launchers

user92578

Needs more fixing and probably an animation

10:47 AM

@Tyyppi_77 imo it needs to be faster

user92578

the missile?

yep

nope

kinda

the missile shooter exit phase

get it slower in time

11:27 AM

Finally got the internet back

Phew

12:19 PM

private IEnumerable<LinkedList<int>> generateExtraGaps(int length, int maxSum)
        {
            if (length < 0 || maxSum < 0)
            {
                throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException();
            }
            else if (length == 0)
            {
                yield return new LinkedList<int>();
            }
            else if (length == 1)
            {
                for (int value = 0; value <= maxSum; value++)
                {
                    LinkedList<int> output = new LinkedList<int>();

what is this guy doing here?

if length==1 he spits out a linkedlist enumeration that contains values from 0->maxsum

when length>1.... he recursively calls this function in a foreach loop -- what is the intention here?

user92578

man that's actually quite hard to go trough

user92578

this is why I try to comment my code, just in case anyone ever reads it

so, the foreach loop essentially calls itself from MaxSum to 0

presumably this length-1 is to eventually reach 0

which would return a blank list.

user92578

no

user92578

it'll just go to 1

12:26 PM

right

Now, this is what I don't really get

foreach (LinkedList<int> nextStep

LinkedList<int> output = new LinkedList<int>(nextStep);

for each linked list, create a linked list and then put it in another linked list

Then add a value to it???? wtf

user92578

I just manually checked generateExtraGaps(2, 2)

user92578

That'll return essentially [List(0, 0), List(1, 0), List (2, 0), List(0, 1), List(1, 1), List(0, 2)] if I didn't fuck it up

user92578

The fact that maxSum is included does not help following the logic... you see that so seldom

yeah this logic is really confusing.

user92578

like what is the function even supposed to do?

12:34 PM

that is what I am trying to figure out lol

I'm looking at other picross solvers

user92578

oh, all right

github.com/rodya-mirov/Picross/blob/master/Picross/Picross/…

@line 175

user92578

BtW you can click on the line number and get a link with the line

//what we want to do is enumerate through each possible
//size of the spaces between! left edge can be 0-infty and
//internals can be 1-infty, with the total at the leftover
//from the hints (right edge is fixed to be the leftovers,
//since we do have a constraint). But we can actually assume
//each internal gap has one extra space, and uniformly vary from 0

user92578

Dude.

user92578

12:36 PM

It generates the alternatives for a single row

user92578

length is the amount of cells on a row of the board

yeah i know, but how is it doing it

user92578

and maxSum is the holes left I think or something like that

He is mass spamming linked lists

I need to probably run some pre-calculated arrays of data

user92578

I wrote myself a python version so that I can see the results

12:39 PM

ok, so if you run it through with something like 5 - 10

how many unique lists is that generating?

user92578

like total?

yeah

user92578

atleast 15015

So there is my problem. All those lists are unique

I need to write a buffer

user92578

What would 5 - 10 mean though?

12:42 PM

5 meta tags

user92578

okay you've already lost me

int leftover = squaresWide - rowTotal - (rowHints[row].Count - 1); //the total number of variable gap positions

so.. the meta tags i mean the numbers on the side of the grid

rowTotal = sum of all meta tags

rowHints[row].Count = Number of meta tags

so that second parameter on a 30x30 grid -- could be 30 at its worst case.

user92578

so for a 5x5 grid what would those be?

user92578

second is 5?

user92578

first is 1 + 2+ 3+ 4+5?

12:45 PM

depends on the meta tags

if you have a 5.. it would be 1, 0

if you have a 0, it would be 1, 5

user92578

okay wtf are meta tags

on a picross game -- you have numbers on the side that tell you how to solve the puzzle.

user92578

OH RIGHT

user92578

fucking hell

this is calculating every single variation possible

user92578

12:46 PM

yeah

Spitting out linked lists for each one

That is horrible

user92578

so... what do the lists represent?

user92578

so in 5 - 10, 5 is the row width?

first parameter is the number of meta tags

so if you have " 2 1 5 " it would be 3

user92578

what?

user92578

12:47 PM

(I'm sure you explaining this to me is extremely helpful)

ok, so this is solving one row at a time

one row, has numbers on the side that tell you how to solve

there can be multiple numbers.

user92578

oh now I get it

So that count is the first parameter

user92578

what's the second param then?

the second param is

int leftover = squaresWide - rowTotal - (rowHints[row].Count - 1);

rowTotal is the sum of all meta numbers.

user92578

12:49 PM

So 2 + 1 + 5

yeah

user92578

squaresWide is the grid width

so RowWidth - MetaSUM - (MetaCount -1)

if the meta was 1 2 on a 5x5 grid

5 - 3 - 1

I mean, there probably isn't really any way around it -- how would you create all possibilities without creating a lot of objects

I need to figure out an algorithm that will create the possibilities in the same buffer space

use it, then move on to the next possibility... but it still won't solve the issue of having to check all 20K possibilities on each row :/

So what am I going to do? Not allow puzzles over 20x20?

That might actually be a really good design decision.

user92578

Yeah I feel like 20x20 would be a reasonable limit

people will be asking for support for larger grids

but I feel if I can't check the puzzles, people are not going to appreciate the quality of shit

Guaranteed people are going to try to spam it with shit

user92578

12:55 PM

yeah that's very true

swastikas are coming

i have considered putting a check to prevent them

instantly ban someone that attempts

would be easy enough to check specific patterns

user92578

"Hey dev you are an idiot, I want bigger grids"
"To assure the level quality, I need to confirm that all levels are completable. This however gets too expensive once the grid size reaches values over 20"

BULLSHIT THAT IS STUPID DEV IS STUPID

HE CAN'T EVEN WRITE A SOLVER, THERE ARE WEBPAGES THAT DO THAT

the issue with my solver is that i cannot brute force.

I need to run it through.

like a person would

so another thing about limiting to 20x20

user92578

so how does a user create a level?

user92578

do they type in the meta tags?

user92578

12:59 PM

or do they draw the image?

they would allow me to put them on the mobile version without having the screen be too small

user92578

ooh yet another good point

I wrote this editor that is already hooked up to steam :D

You pick a grid size -- draw the image -- then click save and it prompts for a name

(it also checks to ensure you have at least 40% of the board covered)

And then it runs a check on the puzzle before submitting it to the workshop

if the check fails, you cannot submit the puzzle -- it will show you where it failed

puzzle gets auto tagged with its size

i was gonna do screenshots -- but that gives away the puzzle hehehe

user92578

lol yup

user92578

man I don't think I can be of any assistance here

1:03 PM

well there is no way around it... p v np

people will bitch... the other option is to allow puzzles over 20

but not check them.

let the community deal with it

user92578

could that be a separate category?

you can rate levels.

can't really be a seperate category no

user92578

"larger unchecked levels" -> "WARNING: There might not be solutions to these levels. Play at your own risk"

would be tagged

as far as I know anyways

user92578

aight

1:05 PM

oh shit

maybe you can put categories

user92578

so just out of general curiosity, how does one play a custom level? do you open up steam, navigate to the workshop page, and load up levels there? or is there something like an in-game browser?

user92578

oh man I'm 6 rep from 2K

@jgallant yeah let people rate them.

Yeah you open the workshop page, and then you see all the levels

Click the + on a level

(its called subscribe)

Then in my game, I can pull up all your subscribed levels and load them up

maybe have a "check this" button with the explanation about the AI not necessarily being able to solve more complex puzzles.

1:09 PM

its not that it can't

its that it just takes way too long

oh want to submit a 35x35 puzzle aye? well to to bed this is gonna take a whiel.

doesn't seem acceptable to me

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user92578

fuck I've been trying to get this stupid missile launcher to scale properly for like an hour now

little demo -- its not quite done yet obviously

user92578

that's super awesome

I think it would be acceptable with the appropritate warning about it taking a long time

I am not opposed to not checking them

add a star ranking hooked up to the game/steam

will fix that up real quick

I was also thinking -- what if someone wanted levels that are ridiculous?>

I need to look into those categories -- I don't think I can do that

Oh...

fuck it, at least for version 1 its going to be locked to 20x20

see what the community says.

1:20 PM

that doesn't seem unreasonable

user92578

gives you a chance to be the dev who listens to the community

user92578

"due to a big demand for larger levels, here they are"

@ChrisMcFarland oh, I'm playing Tallowmere in Italian! Looks quite professional :)

1:36 PM

@ChrisMcFarland I noticed that something is not being translated, in the challenge menù, in town: all the string id like this one

Challenge_Bloat_Description

dont get translated

ahahahah

I forgot to change something

like "life is getting you down?" was translated in italian with the equivalent to "life is raping you?"

@ChrisMcFarland Also I noticed that in you inventory when the item declares its rarity in english you have rarity -> item type while in italian this order sounds awkward and for a proper translation you should invert them

Like you have Common shield

in italian you should have Scudo comune

user92578

1:56 PM

WHOO!

user92578

2K

2k?

rep!

gz!

user92578

thanks!

2:17 PM

Life is raping you. Lol

@Leggy7 10/10

2:35 PM

It is pretty accurate

The English translation needs to be changed instead

Hey guys

user92578

Hi, what's up?

hey @Tyyppi_77 been a while ... hows your game coming along?

did you get it released in the end ?

user92578

going okay, still a lot to do but I'm feeling confident that I can finish it one day

that's the trouble with pet projects ... they are never done

user92578

2:43 PM

yeah basically my current focus is on adding content

user92578

I need to double the level count

last i checked you had some pretty good tooling for that

user92578

oh yeah

user92578

basically just fixing bugs, polishing some of the older stuff and then levels levels levels

user92578

more levels means of course more level elements

2:49 PM

yeh gotta give the player some different challenges

not considered making the game one whole level then?

do some dynamic loading and unloading stuff

loading screens are becoming a thing of the past more and more today

user92578

yeah that won't really work, I want a lot of small and fast levels

user92578

loading times aren't really an issue

user92578

I can smoothly fade the screen to black, then load the level and fade the level in, and you don't really even notice that something happened between the fades

ah fair enough

I really hate it when people offer up big downloads and their server maxes out at 1MB/s

user92578

lol

2:52 PM

trying to download the latest SQL server ISO from MSDN and and i'm getting stupidly slow speeds

user92578

so what have you been upto?

my broadband can do like 20 times what i'm getting

me ... well mostly business process stuff

I built a workflow engine, thought I'd take some down time this weekend to have a go at the UI for it

I have some ideas how I can use that in my game server back end too

remember the noise module thing I built some time ago?

SQLServer for your backend?

I'm basically looking in to canalizing the code from that in to a workflow builder

1. not free

2. enterprise solution

3. bloat

2:55 PM

@jgallant yeh for some of it

it's far from bloat for what I need

I need an enterprise solution

if you say so :D

gonna scale that shit are you?

and the cost of software ... meh ... nothing really

@jgallant yup

I have the bulk of the pieces all built now

starting to bolt things together

user92578

I feel like every 5 days or so I'm fighting with positioning rotating shit

the last of which is my SSO server, web platform and front end framework

the SSO server, workflow engine and web platform sit on top of SQL, EF and WebAPI / OData, most the game server stuff doesn't use a DB but does cache data from OData API's

basically SQL is used to load and periodically dump the cloud state to

beyond that the whole game server is essentially in ram

clients connect on the usual async sockets and off they go ... streaming all the way

still debating on using cloud services like azure or amazon ... not sure if I want the cost / job of looking after hardware fora cloud service

that said ... it does you give you a crap ton of control

anyone ? stackoverflow.com/questions/39807768/…

at a hackaton and cant figure this shit out

user92578

3:04 PM

why SO and not GDSE?

user92578

traitor

user92578

TRAITOOOR

lol

user92578

no clue

not sure of that one myself

3:12 PM

cause its not a gdse question

tbh I ask most my questions on the main site these days ... got sick of being told everything was not relevant to the GDSE site

user92578

SO isn't a "main site" for GDSE though

apparently nothing is related to GDSE these days as any mention of a particular game engine is basically not allowed on GDSE

SO site basically accepts any code related question and seems to have a higher turnover of users answering questions

@ChrisMcFarland apparently a subsequent game restart fixed that challenge translation issue :)

2 hours later…

5:22 PM

Hey

Yeh

5:39 PM

Still doing CDs HTML for program ;)

Css

5:55 PM

@Tyyppi_77 can't wait to be your steam support helper :D

I'm gonna get a samsung 7inch tablet for my kid for his bday

He broke his nexus7 this year, digitizer is totally fucked

cost 100$ to replace the screen about -- so fuck that -- 150$ for a new tablet

1 hour later…

7:00 PM

The Binding Of Isaac - Enmity Of The Dark Lord (Danny Baranowsky)

user92578

7:12 PM

@jgallant I'll ask Chris about achievements and you about level workshop :)

it beats reading docs :D

Once I finish all this back logged work I'm going to finally update the core vertex manipulation code.

Probably going to make it so the player can grab at least 2 vertices at once and also maybe let them pull on the faces of objects too.

The latter will be a bit harder to pull off I think.

Pretty sure it was either Mick or @j [on] who gave me that idea for the first.

7:31 PM

Was me.

If you can pull that off it will sell for sure

Still has the issue of utilizing the mechanic in you design though

A puzzle game is only as good as the level design

On the side I'm trying to cobble together a story on the side as well to make the areas fit together.

Also of course the puzzles are still very much so a work in progress.

user92578

I'm having enough trouble with basic platformer levels, I can't even imagine what it would be like to design actual clever puzzles

Level design... and well game design in general usually ends up going something like this...

an essay by Spongebob Squarepants

I'm getting comfortable with level design

I personally hate doing it

It takes up time.

I enjoy it to an extent but it's just very time consuming.

The hardest part for me is making it feel realistic and not like just some blue print.

7:51 PM

For me it's dumbing it down for normal people

user92578

For me it's making it interesting

8:55 PM

for me its making it not obvious i put a penis in there

Stephane Hockenhull

LOL

Stephane Hockenhull

9:30 PM

okay, so it looks like my bones per vertex reduction isn't working quite right...

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I get one ponytail and the rest gets scrunched to 0,0,0

ah! incrementing the index variable would help...

aaaaaand using the largest weight rather than lowest weight would also be helpful

"let's discard all bones except those with 0 weight" - Best algo ever

Stephane Hockenhull

9:50 PM

user image

PROGRESS!

Stephane Hockenhull

10:02 PM

looks like the bone indexing in the vertex shader is borked or the vertex attribute format is

@StephaneHockenhull What is all of this for? Is that an engine you're working on for a particular game or what?

Stephane Hockenhull

it's my engine. Working on the animation system. the skinning on the GPU specifically.

software skinning works fine but it's heavy since the engine has to upload a new vertex buffer every frame.

Ah.

Stephane Hockenhull

I got a few games in mind but right now I'm still getting the engine's last few basic features working.

Stephane Hockenhull

10:26 PM

It's in pieces all over the floor right now. most of the modules are working but they're not wired together yet.

Stephane Hockenhull

11:06 PM

oh so close, only a few vertices are buggy now

attaboy

Stephane Hockenhull

user image

11:23 PM

Jesus wept

Stephane Hockenhull

11:42 PM

user image

welp I'm having nightmares now

Stephane Hockenhull

Thank god the animation playback test is disabled right now.

okay, so if I force the weights to (1, 0, 0, 0) in the shader everything looks fine...

somehow I got garbage in the VBO

Whoa

That is scary as hell

Holy macaroni

ok what the hell

we imported some aset from the asset store and now we want to delete it and we we do Unity REIMPORTS IT before being closed

Stephane Hockenhull

See? My engine doesn't do that reimport crap. It'll give you nightmares but gotta pick your poison :D

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Oct '161

Game Development

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