Game Development - 2012-06-06

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William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:51 AM

What's with all the people in here

Lots of people I don't know, not saying anything.

gives everyone a stern look

Don't scare 'em off, @MindWorX

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Like, don't make any sudden moves? :P

Or stern looks.

5 hours later…

6:51 AM

@JohnMcDonald Not only did I have way to many Keyboard.GetState()s scattered throughout my code, but the real culprit was that even though the physics appeared to be behaving right, my logic had me thinking I was in the air about half the time thus not allowing me to jump again! By fixing this logic and the additional Keyboard.GetState()s the input problem (which was only part of the problem) went away.

2 hours later…

9:20 AM

@WilliamMindWorXMariager still there are too many here

I'm starting to wonder what happened in the past days?

attracting too much people

1 hour later…

10:46 AM

a fast question

how can i initialize a variable in a while loop and then check if it is not equal to something

example (this is how i imagine it)

while(line = reader.readLine(); line != "end") {

while(!(line = reader.readLine()).startsWith("end")) {

this worked

@Chorche I'm not sure about Java but I think you can use comma operator while(line=reader.readLine(), line != "end")

any way why don't you use a simple for statement?

how would the for statement look?

for(line=reader.readLine(); line != "end";line=reader.readLine())

but still it's more suited for codegolf, not real application development

@Gajet if i would use the for statement you wrote, it would read two lines

it would read the first line, check if it isn't "end" then replace it with the second line

i think

nope,

i reads first line, checks statement, do whatever you wrote inside for, and then reads another line

11:06 AM

okay then

is there any diference between using

while(!(line = reader.readLine()).startsWith("end")) {

and

for(line=reader.readLine(); line != "end";line=reader.readLine())

actually no, the only difference is the fact that "endabs" will result in interruption in first statement but it won't in the second.

but still don't use either of those in your application code

why?

11:23 AM

cause you only want clean codes in your project

and later you might have to read that line, and you need to understand what exactly you tried to do there

and what if some poor guy tries to debug or add feature to your code?

i don't get it

you're saying that i don't understand what it doea, or you're saying that it will be a problem, when i'll want to add something new to my code?

I'm saying I am one of the rare people who can see that one line and tell what it's doing at the first sight.

so it's not a good method you are using.

you have to write clean codes, meaning anyone can tell what you are doing there, even without comments.

and put comments where ever you are forced to write something you suspect there is a person who might not understand, put comments to clear avoid any confusion.

3 hours later…

2:14 PM

@tylerrrr07 yay! Good to hear (the solution, not the problem)

Yeah... I had a check that basically said if I wasn't colliding on the bottom, I should change state to be in the air, but it turns out I forgot to apply gravity all the time!

Turned on gravity, problem solved.

Ahh, ic

plus the multiple keyboard updates

Yeah that was no good

I had created an input handler but forgot to update old code to use it

So great tip from you there. I appreciate the advice on that one

@tylerrrr07 yeah, you'd be surprised how often that happens

I think my next endeavor now is going to be implementing basic animations just so I have the framework in place for when I get some real art.. and then with all of that I could really just create a very basic platformer if I wanted to.

I really like this "develop a game, not an engine" concept. I'm making a lot of progress in very little time, though it will probably come back to bite me later.

2:24 PM

meh, If... I mean, Since you haven't made a game in a while, it's more fun to just run with it, :)

For sure.

@JohnMcDonald what is the fast method to draw lots of 2D triangles in XNA?

Using a triangle drawn on to a Texture2D

hah?

(as in mspaint)

2:31 PM

you know that's not my problem?

:) yeah, I know, I was just having fun, but really though, I've never tried to draw a triangle or a mesh

You mean a 2D mesh?

yep,

but the mesh is basically a bold line. I mean all triangles (and in result the mesh) are generated at load time.

@WilliamMindWorXMariager @TreDubZedd do you have any idea how I can draw 2D mesh in XNA?

Isn't that normally done with a vertex buffer?

please explain more...

2:35 PM

I don't know more.

I'm not sure there's really a "2D" mesh in XNA, although I think you can render a 3D mesh to a Texture2D, then draw that

to be sure, are you expecting all your triangles to be co-planar?

What do you want a 2D mesh for?

@TreDubZedd it's same thing

@JohnMcDonald let's say to draw a bold line

and some concave polygons

actually one of my friends is stuck with low performance on Windows Mobile

well... I thought you were wanting a textured triangle

I know how to draw a line

2:37 PM

(you originally asked about 2D triangles--not necessarily a 2D mesh. I was trying to clarify)

@JohnMcDonald not simple lines,

thick lines

lines with different widths and later he should be able to draw polygons (based on vertex positions and indexes)

Do you also want rounded corners? or...

@JohnMcDonald Lines don't have corners silly

:P

2:38 PM

actually it's a line string,

But I suppose when your thick line is really a rectangle

Triangles can, :/

there is no need to have rounded corners, but he should be able to fill the blank spaces in the joints

So... Two suggestions: [Lines with rounded ends](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/manders/archive/2007/01/07/lines-2d-thick-rounded-line-segments-for-xna-programs.aspx)
or my [primitives library](https://bitbucket.org/jcpmcdonald/2d-xna-primitives/wiki/DrawLine) or the line-drawing code from the source

:/ did I get the ordering wrong?

[] before (), right?

@JohnMcDonald the problem is you didn't put http:// before links

2:43 PM

ah

still it doesn't solve the polygon problem he'll face later

Nope, if you view the history, the http is there

So... Two suggestions: Lines with rounded ends or my primitives library or the line-drawing code from the source

i didn't have any problems

the same order you have now, with http://

@JohnMcDonald exactly copied from your history :/

@Gajet The http:// was always there: chat.stackexchange.com/messages/4853168/history

heh, yeah

weird

meh

I'm guessing that lines aren't all your friend needs?

Filled triangles, or polygons will be required?

I've been telling same thing for some time now I've first mentioned it here :

11 mins ago, by Gajet

and some concave polygons

2:48 PM

You never said "Filled"

All you said was lines

nah, they are filled with solid color

Lines == Easy
Filled != Easy

And I have no idea how to go about the later without manual texture manipulation

the concave part is not really a problem, my job is to import those concave polygons and generate a suitable mesh for his later use

No no, you misunderstand me
Triangle: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/Triangle_700.gif
Filled Triangle: http://processanalytica.com/filled-triangle.gif

I know how to make filled rectangles but thats about it

2:54 PM

likewise, :D

Based on the answer to this question you just do it using 3D techniques - stackoverflow.com/questions/5641579/xna-draw-a-filled-circle

shrugs

user4704

3:08 PM

What's going on?

Gajet's looking for a way to draw a filled, concave, possibly porous, 2D polygon in XNA

(starting with filled triangles)

user4704

Edge walking scanline rasterizers can do it as a rasterization step, or you can tesselate it

user4704

0

Q: How can I run a .jar file with XNA?

Could someone help me to develop a method to run any .jar file (with parameters) from in C# with XNA?

xna c# java programming

user4704

This question confuses the heck out of me.

user4704

He @replies himself in a comment, and he'd submitted an edit to Byte's answer that deleted the entire answer and replaced it with a comment to the effect of "I can't do that in XNA" which implies he wants 360 deployment.

3:18 PM

can you exec() in C# / xna?

user4704

System.Process.Start.

that's about the only thing i'd expect to be viable...

user4704

It's not going to work in the compact framework though.

user4704

Which is what's used by XNA games deployed to the 360.

user4704

Yeah, it basically is the only viable thing.

3:28 PM

yeah... and you have to have an expensive license to run native code on xbox, right?

user4704

It's not that expensive.

Based on his last comment to Byte's answer, Byte's answer is THE answer.

user4704

But it's not a retail product so what it costs is largely irrelevent.

user4704

And yes, Byte's got the only reasonable positive answer.

user4704

Geez, every project on github seems to respond to pull requests rapidly until those pull requests are mine. :|

3:44 PM

as in removing a project from github?

user4704

No, a pull request is a request from somebody who forked to integrate changes back into the original

user4704

This, for example, is mine: github.com/scrooloose/nerdtree/pull/167

oh, ok

i love scrooloose, i use a lot of his vim scripts

including nerdtree... :)

his blog is really funny, too

user4704

nerdtree rocks

yeah, definitely

do you use fuGITive?

pretty nice git integration with vim...

user4704

3:58 PM

nope

4:56 PM

for the Jar file thing, You could also use IKVM on the systems you'd use Process.Start, but I'm pretty sure it leans on reflection libraries that don't exist in Compact

Otherwise, you can use it to crosscompile to IL, but I dont' know how effective that is

1 hour later…

6:03 PM

sounds like dirty black magic to me

6:42 PM

my cygwin is broken :(

just an status update really!

7:12 PM

can a matrix be multiplied with float?

Yes: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

1

Q: Importing 3D skeletal animations from .smd model

I'm writing an .smd importer, and i'm stuck at the skeletal animation part. The problem is that i dont know exactly how it works. I'm using this this to write the exporter, but it doesn't show how to use the information stored in file. I imagine that all vertexes with the same bone id should be ...

java opengl lwjgl

look at the anwser

the "Vertex transformation" part

vertexPosAnimated =
boneToWorld[0] * boneAtRest[0] * vertexPosModel * weight[0] +
boneToWorld[1] * boneAtRest[1] * vertexPosModel * weight[1] +
boneToWorld[2] * boneAtRest[2] * vertexPosModel * weight[2];

weight is a float right?

weight looks like a vector, to me

why do you think so?

weight[0] indicates some array-based structure

7:20 PM

anyway

look here

"For example, for a vertex associated with 3 bones:"

lwjgl.org/javadoc/org/lwjgl/util/vector/Matrix4f.html

Each array is just holding the data of different bones

how can i multiply it with a float?

i think weight is just a float

Use the scale method, taking a Vector which has that float for each of its parameters

I think you're wrong.

7:22 PM

developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Studiomdl_Data

look here

weight is an array that could potentially hold float values?

no

From what I read in the answer (though I'll provide the disclaimer I know very little about 3d)...

From the code you posted, @Chorche, weight is definitely not a simple float.

they are

7:24 PM

vertexPosAnimated =
bone1_boneToWorld * bone1_boneAtRest * vertexPosModel * bone1_weight +
bone2_boneToWorld * bone2_boneAtRest * vertexPosModel * bone2_weight +
bone3_boneToWorld * bone3_boneAtRest * vertexPosModel * bone3_weight;

why would you think so?

Thats essentially what that code equated to in my head

@tylerrrr07 yeah, you're right

i thought you vere talking about something else

Perhaps we should begin at the beginning: What, exactly, is the problem?

I also know next to nothing about 3D, but I was thinking that [0], [1] and [2] were x, y, and z

probably shows that I know nothing about 3D

7:27 PM

@JohnMcDonald - that was my first thought until I read "For example, for a vertex associated with 3 bones:" in the answer itself (right before the code block)

I was thinking the same thing...but it sounds like they're the weights for the three bones associated with a vert.

@tylerrrr07 types too quickly.

ic

I hate watching other people type lol. Hurts so bad.

It's just that you've beaten me to the comment twice, now, in as many days.

@TreDubZedd i don't think i should share my problem with you, because it's kind of difficult to explain

7:30 PM

@Chorche Isn't the problem the question that you linked?

@Chorche I don't think I should share my answer with you, because it's very difficult to come up with one for a problem that can't be explained.

Hm. That was snarky. I apologize.

@TreDubZedd is problem = question ??

Sometimes.

The way I see it, you came to chat looking for an answer...to an ill-defined question (in the context of chat).

You posted a link to a "question" on StackOverflow...which has an accepted "answer".

well i can tell you what is the probem, if you want to help me so much

I was confused by the accepted answer as well

7:33 PM

everything is okay with the anwser

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is this: "If you want an answer, you'll have to be more clear about what, exactly, your question is."

the problem is me

I didn't truly read the answer he gave until now, but it's making sense to me

i was using that anwser to write the "importer", and i kind of finished it

So, "I'm writing an SMD importer, and I kind of finished it."

7:35 PM

@Chorche Do you understand the statement vertexPosAnimated = boneToWorld * boneAtRest * vertexPosModel?

yeah

it multiplies the matrixes

the boneToWorld matrix is transform = root * spine * shoulderR * upperArmR

Ok, then the one with the weight[0] is just a weighted average for vertex that is associated to 2 or more bones

yes

Ok, so to answer your question above, weight[0] is likely a float

the boneAtRest matrix is an inversion of: transform = root * spine * shoulderR * upperArmR

@JohnMcDonald yeah

7:38 PM

ok

but i'm sharing the "BIG" problem at the moment

:D

vertexPosAnimated = boneToWorld * boneAtRest * vertexPosModel

this is the problem

How is that a problem?

vertexPosAnimated = vertexPosModel

that is what i get after multiplying

that's because boneToWorld * boneAtRest is always

1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0
0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0
0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0

aka, the identity matrix

(yay, I can do 3D Mom!)

> Observe that, when the bone is currently in its at-rest position, boneAtRest is the inverse of boneToWorld, so boneToWorld * boneAtRest is the identity matrix, so the vertex position remains unchanged, which is correct!

7:41 PM

Unless its not at rest

@TreDubZedd yeah

@Chorche So the question is, is your bone at rest when you observe that behavior? If yes you are doing it right :D

If no.... :(

so it's normat that after doing
vertexPosAnimated = boneToWorld * boneAtRest * vertexPosModel

the vertexPosAnimated = vertexPosModel ??

If the model is at rest, I'd say so

If you think about that it makes complete sense

assuming the model's default state is at rest

7:46 PM

so if my bone is at rest, the boneToWorld * boneAtRest = IDENTITY?

Meaning: "Leave the vertex where it is"

To quote a very wise man who quoted a very wise man who answered your question:

6 mins ago, by TreDubZedd

> Observe that, when the bone is currently in its at-rest position, boneAtRest is the inverse of boneToWorld, so boneToWorld * boneAtRest is the identity matrix, so the vertex position remains unchanged, which is correct!

i already understood that part :D

The answer to the question you just asked is written right there

i was just making sure

then the problem is somewhere else, because that lazy model shoud be dancing, but it's resting...

7:50 PM

Hm...my ego enjoys my being called a "very wise man" a little too much.

shouldn't the bones at-rest position be 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.000000 0.000000

?

Probably not...why do you have a negative zero component...and six zeroes, at that?

8:16 PM

nevermind

okay

the problem is that my model is always at-rest, but it shouldnt

That sounds like it might be a keyframe-interpolation problem

i think i know what is the problem

i have to get the boneAtRest from the information in the first (at-rest) frame, and leave it right?

Yes, that sounds right

because now i'm recalculating boneAtRest on every frame

Ah, that would do it.

8:32 PM

@Chorche yeah, that's also mentioned in answer to your question: "Note that the at-rest transforms do not change over time; they're fixed based on the model's reference position."

man, that guy is awesome

yeah

@Chorche I'm with ya though so don't feel bad. Walls of text are so intimidating and easy to lose information in. Unfortunately you and I have to suck it up and just read. :(

@tylerrrr07 +

to whom ever stared this message, we have some kids around at this room, and the sentence is a bit funny if a teen sees it!

hope you get what I mean cuz a teen will...

:D

@Gajet is it me, or you're thinking that i'm a stupid child?

8:43 PM

@Chorche I guess I've just watched too much "two and a half men".

I think @Gajet is talking about the "yay, I can do 3D Mom!" comment I starred

I was thinking more along the lines of "Look Mom, I'm on TV!" and had a good laugh about it

@tylerrrr07 so take back your star.

I'm easily amused

yeah i know what is he talking about now

teens are also easy to amuse...

8:45 PM

@Gajet - if we are going to start assuming that the word "do" is always inappropriate I'll probably just go find a different community to hang out with

not always, but that sentence is not really well written, IMHO.

i'm 16 years old, and when i saw that message i was also thinking about "Look Mom, I'm on TV!"

at least it misses a comma

so i don't think that we, teens are so shallow as you think :D

as I said I was too much under influence of "two and a half men"

you have seen jake, right?

8:50 PM

actualy i don't know what is that :D

What do men have that women don't?

Beards?

Lower.

in lower voice Beards?

Thats my memory of the show lol

that should be the time when Jake was around 12

now from the latest episode I've seen (in season 6):

charlie: I've been in Bangkok
*jake start laughing*
charlie: what?
Jake: you said Bangkok!

@tylerrrr07 That's exactly what I was going for

or "Look Ma! No hands!"

I can tell,

still anyone can easily misunderstand that sentence.

:/ really?

8:54 PM

you could write "yay mom, I can do 3D"

@JohnMcDonald maybe hardly :?

Well it won't let me unstar it so its stuck :P

:P

after all those fake reasonings...

:p

Unstar what?

:(

8:59 PM

@Noctrine very sneaky sir.

@Noctrine so moderators can do anything around the chat too?

Yep

you've saved the day!

I still think the content itself was appropriate and if someone could interpret it the wrong way its only their own fault. If they publicly comment on it and begin to act immature about it I don't want them here anyway.

@tylerrrr07 now I'm thinking the first thing came to my mind also was "look mom, I'm on TV"

9:01 PM

................................

lol

the second thing was a little bit inappropriate.

Yeah... well anyway. I'm off for now. I'll probably be back in a few hours or so

go have fun

9:48 PM

Guess I should buy GW2 now

user4704

Yes, you should.

So curious, why the four digit code?

user4704

10:04 PM

Which code? After your username?

Battle.net adds a 4-digit code after your Battle Tag too

Yeah

user4704

Uniquification, yo.

User names wouldn't already be unique?

Or is it just to allow people to have all the names that would usually be snapped up early?

user4704

Real names wouldn't be.

10:15 PM

So, it's for sorting out the numerous people with the same name that might have the same username?

well, if you force people to use AwesomeName159182 for logins, they tend to forget, and they're really rather just be AwesomeName

and then you can just use email or something else as their unique identifier for login

but if you want to share your user ID with someone, you don't necessarily want to give them your email

That's a good way to put it

Yeah

I didn't think of it that way

But what about when two people are awesomename

well, I've met a guy with my first and last name before

Then they end up being awesomename.#### for login purposes. Or are they always awesomename.#### for login purposes, which they would forget? But I guess that's remedied by having the email as an option

Yeah, I just took over the #1 google search result from the other me's

10:21 PM

they are actually just their emails for login purposes. AwesomeName is what they show up as to other people. If you want to look up a player, you look it up by AwesomeName.####

@Jimmy heh, that's never happened to me </sarcasm>

@JohnMcDonald You have a wiki disambiguation page!

lol

heh, no doubt

So it's like what CO does, username@accountname but more convenient, nice.

10:23 PM

It's a little annoying, especially when people assume I'm a mACdonald

capitalcityweekly.com/stories/060612/out_1001055033.shtml

John McDonald is concerned. He's concerned that Americans, particularly younger ones, are losing hope.

Yes... yes I am

Don't give up on us, John!

He deceived his parents!

He should have planned on visiting McDonald's restaurants instead of Subways

although that would defeat the purpose of locating the American Dream

1 hour later…

11:51 PM

Wow, that guy is heading straight for community wiki land: gamedev.stackexchange.com/posts/30218/revisions

Question: How would you make my game.

Oh wait, he's removed that question. Yeah, I'm confused. Is he building support of a community project?

yeah, wtf

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