@BenjaminHoogterp I'm here.

@BenjaminHoogterp Can you ping me?

@BenjaminHoogterp Can you type-a message?

@BejaminHoogterp You are now a co-owner

Ok.

Chat needs some work

@BenjaminHoogterp Yes, now where were we?

@Tau wasn't torally sure where you were at.. we're you saying the horse as a vehicle is literal?

I saw else where that you equated Daniels 11th horn with the USA as well..

@BenjaminHoogterp No. Horses, in prophetic interpretation are vehicles, unless the language is indicative of a particular horse with a particular rider.

@BenjaminHoogterp Yes. It is the understanding of the 'little horn', which in itself is symbolic.

Well, like I said... liGeral strictly brrake down. Some must be symbols.

And, I don't see Rev 16 as Israel, but rather Rome

@BenjaminHoogterp Antiochus Epiphanes was the 'type'. Correction-the little horn of Dan. 7 is USA, the 'little horn' of Dan. 11 was Antiochus Epiphanes.

Do you hold the 4th kingDom is Greece then?

Cuz, 11th horn is I'm the 4th beast.

@BenjaminHoogterp No-it can't be. The 4th kingdom is Rome-this is the entire context of Dan 2/7.

I agree, Rome

But, the 4th beast is the one with the horns. Antiochus was Greek. 475 BC or so

Pardon my phones auto correct

The ten horns were on the 4th beast, Daniel 7:7. The little horun is 7:8, and uprooted 3

Dan 11 21-35 shows antiochus, but 36 and on is Rome and willful king... but, all of aniches was Greece. Same with Dan 8. The abomination in Daniel 8 & 11 had to be in the third kibgdom, so the abomination that Jesus spoke of, Dan 12, was most likely a second event

@BenjaminHoogterp I have laid out understanding in various posts about 'how to understand' the Greek Beast. This 'kingdom' has Dominion over the entire earth, in both Ch. 2 and 7. The 4 kingdoms of 11(NSEW) are describing this kingdom. What is important to understand is the Greek kingdom is the 1st kingdom to emulate man-vs a animal/demon or some other concoction. And the Greek 'gods' later became Roman 'gods', who copied the Greeks.

Right, but the horns of 7 are still Roman, not greek, so Antiochus doesn't match

@BenjaminHoogterp Obviously the 'Abomination of Desolation' had to be an event looked forward to, rather than in reverse. But they knew what they were looking for, given the graphic nature of Antiochus's abomination.

I disagree... the Romans desecrated the temple 3 1/2 years before it was destroyed, the same time the general surrounded the city and then withdrew before Vespasian came.. thus, a secoND abomination, where they stole much temple gold, and the jerusalem surrounded by armies..

Roman soldiers with their insignias in the temple seems it shouls constitute an abomination.

And it was at this time that they stopped the daily sacrifice to caesar, a prelude to war

@BenjaminHoogterp Actually, all 10 Horns grew out of the 4th beast-Rome. The crowns(in Rev.) signify the time they were in power. During the time of John, the crowns were on the Heads(Rev. 12:3), signifying Rome, and the 'heads' that preceded it. Rev. 13:1 puts it on the horns-which are the Roman colonies that came to power in their own right.

All three signo directal pointing to the same thing, albeit, not directly obvious until afterwards that they were separatelling events

Right, so if the 10 horns were rome, how could the 11th be greek?

The only way Jesuss statement makes sense is 2 abominations.. cuz "every Jew" of the day knew of antiochus.. and, Dan 8&11 make it clear they were greece

Both are very obvious.. so, if there is an abomination yet ton come in Matt 24, the olivet, it is a separate one.

@BenjaminHoogterp The Whole Beast is "like unto a leopard"(Rev. 13:1/Dan. 7:6); the Leopard is the 3rd 'beast" of Daniel, therefore the Nature(not geographical/political entity) is LIKE Greece.

And, judging from the circumstances, the stopping of daily sacrifices to Caesar 3 1/2 years before the end of jerusalem at the same time as being surrounded by armies and a desecration of the temple

Well, sure, with four heads and four wings. It still doesn't pUT the horn on its head

@BenjaminHoogterp This is the "Dual Fulfillment" conundrum-the Matt./Mark accounts put the A of D at the very end, the Luke account says "until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled".

Right, I acount for both

No connundrum

I doNT see any dual fulfull mentioned scritically at this point

Sorry, fulfillment

Phone added a whole word

I'm looking at a 70 ad great trib, btw.. all but the 2nd coming of the Olivet fulfilled in all 3 parallel accounts. They harmonize well

@BenjaminHoogterp I don't read in Josephus where any "sacrifices to Caesar" were made-the mere presence of Roman ensigns in Jerusalem doesn't qualify for the A of D. The Temple sacrifices( to God) continued until there were no more animals to sacrifice.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleazar_ben_Hanania

Eliazar was the governor of the temple [1] at the outbreak of the rebellion in 66 CE and following the initial outbreak of the violence in Jerusalem convinced the priests of the Jewish Temple to stop service of sacrifice for the Emperor. The action, though largely symbolic, was one of the main milestones to bring a full-scale rebellion in Judea.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gessius_Florus

And that is Gessius Florus, the Roman governor of jerusalem who robbed the temple

Same time.. and so Cestis Gallus Surounded Jeru and then withdrew

Christians saw the signs and fled to Pella

Perfectly fulfilled

Or, so I like to think

@BenjaminHoogterp The problem with that interpretation is God's Covenant Promise to Israel that Israel was to be a nation had yet to be fulfilled. Israel was a Roman colony, with some symbolic autonomy, but largely a vassal of Rome. So, the "time of the end" could not have been the end, because Jerusalem was not it's own entity.

@BenjaminHoogterp I've got to go-we'll talk again.......;>)

Which verse?

OKay. Later..