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gbn
6:41 AM
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells No! Don't!
And morning all
 
6:52 AM
Morning @gbn, you're up early
 
gbn
@SimonRigharts nah. 08:55 here and at my office desk
I'm GMT+2 currently
Sorry, UTC+2 since we lost the empire to US hegemony
 
Ah right - I'm just packing and organising things for a flight tomorrow
off to Melbourne for 11 days, yay
(by organising things I mean I'm ordering pizza because I cleverly ran myself out of food)
 
gbn
@SimonRigharts he he. Any excuse
 
@gbn I'm single, so I don't need any excuses :v
 
 
1 hour later…
8:21 AM
Yo
 
gbn
'lo
 
Evning Phil
 
Aup
 
8:37 AM
Not much, think I may have overdosed on pizza. Yourself?
 
9:10 AM
@gbn I rather thought that might be your views on the matter.
Morning all.
@DTest I had another random thought. It's probably cheaper to use SSDs and B.I. Edition on a server with ~1TB of data than to purchase Enterprise Edition. Chances are your hosting provider can furnish a system with SSDs on it.
 
9:50 AM
Enterprise Edition is the one with the extra zeros at the end of the price, right?
 
@SimonRigharts On most platforms.
I think SQL Server B.I. edition is a bit of a bargain in ways that MS never intended. Now you can actually put SSDs on a machine for less than the difference between the cost of BI ed and Enterprise ed.
Plus, if you're fronting your database with an OLAP serber, you've got partitioning on the cubes in B.I. edition and no limits on memory or CPU usage.
You can have 3 partitions in B.I. edition, so you can use re-partitioning for realtime data or archiving off old data.
And the database is limited to 'only' 64GB of RAM, 4 sockets and 16 cores in total. Oh, my first world problems.
 
It's amazing how much horsepower you can get for a couple of grand these days
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells 3 partitions in SSAS?
the 3 partition limit is for the standard edition, the BI edition has no limits on SSAS partitioning
 
10:18 AM
Anyone want to work for Facebook? jobserve.com/gb/en/…
 
Two downsides to that: 1 is the 30-50k figure, 2 is the Manchester bit
also #3 is working for Facebook
 
@Gonsalu 3 partitions in SQL Server. As many as you want in SSAS.
 
:D
 
Partitioning in the database engine is not supported in the BI edition it seems
It's quite limited on the database engine side
no partitions, no data compression, no star schema optimization
 
Goes to show how "Intelligent" Bi is :D
 
10:26 AM
No limitations on the SSAS tabular, I guess they're pushing for that
 
@Gonsalu I think you're right. I thought you got 3 partitions on B.I. edition. Maybe I misread the article or there was an error that got fixed since I read it.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells have you taken a look at DAX and the BISM Tabular?
 
@Gonsalu No. Tabular semantic model will fix a limitation of SSAS though.
Actually a bigger argument for SSDs + B.I. ed. on 100GB-1TB size warehouses.
DAX is an expression language as opposed to a query language. Closer to the sort of thing supported by Business Objects or SSRS but embedded in PowerPivot or B.I. semantic model.
Looks like you can hop out of context and do stuff like 'percent of parent' or running sum type calculations.
 
10:45 AM
@Phil You're starting to sound like a particular other person in this chat. Quite worrying really, I'd get that checked out if I were you
 
@SimonRigharts Who, moi? <blushes> On one hand I could claim to have a corrupting influence, but working for any time in a pommy company is sufficient to achieve it without any help from me. After about 7.5 years here I can oh-too-readily relate to Simon Travaglia's misanthropism.
 
Phones the doctor
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells All in good fun. Besides, I'm pretty sure IT people everywhere think that the business side of the business isn't all that smart
... that made no sense whatsoever.
 
@Phil 'Hello - Tunbridge Wells I.T. rehabilitation clinic. How may I help you?'
@SimonRigharts Been working in Business Intelligence for a decade now and I've yet to see it in the wild.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells You should try working for government. :)
 
11:25 AM
@SimonRigharts I have. Ministry of Education, Ministry of Justice, Auckland District Health Board. Bureaucracy in private enterprise here in the UK is worse than government bureaucracy in New Zealand. God only knows what working for U.K. government clients is like.
 
11:37 AM
Remind me never to move to the UK then because the bureaucracy here is pretty stultifying already
 
Too many easy questions on here recently that probably don't belong here
 
@Phil Eh. We don't have to be advanced-questions-only if we don't want to be
 
I thought that was the entire point
In splitting from SO
 
@Phil I think the killer app of dba.se is to get database questions out from being lost in the noise on SO. However, they really need to get asked here in the first place under the new migration policies.
 
It's the first time I see someone that wants to stop using the index: How can i remove a Index scan from sql server select statement?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:32 PM
Can I use data.se to see a list of Q's I've starred myself?
 
I don't think you can.
 
shame :-)
 
Let's try pinging @TimStone cos he has actually helped work on that code, he may know what the datastore contains
The question is if it's anonymized
 
appears
 
1:34 PM
@TimStone you were here all along :-)
 
Well, I was gone for a brief period while Verizon decided to not connect to half the internet, but I suppose that's true otherwise. ;)
Anyway, that information should be available.
 
any plans on another stackexchange dump?
 
I'm amused by @Shark "The query optimizer is smarter than you. Much smarter."
 
@TimStone excellent, thanks. For some reason I can't log in to d.se as me today
 
1:39 PM
@Gonsalu Stack Exchange was having some issues with ClearBits, who was hosting the previous data dumps, so they're looking into providing it as an AWS Public Data Set. I'm not sure what the download options are in that case.
@JackDouglas Oh?
 
@TimStone I'm stuck as jon.doe6758
clear cookies?
 
Hmm
 
@TimStone is there any api to get the results in xml or json or some other bare output format without the rest of the page?
and would I be breaking any rules by polling every 30 minutes?
mind you, the d.se data is not real-time anyway, is it?
 
Ah, if you want up-to-date information in a more easily-consumable format, the Stack Exchange API should work for this
@JackDouglas Hmm, says that account has been registered for a while. Is other information in your profile accurate, besides your name?
@JackDouglas That's correct, waffles updates it on a (mostly) monthly basis from the live data. The API on the other hand is based on live information.
 
@TimStone ah, it is me! can i link it to my other accounts?
@TimStone great - I'll look into that
 
1:51 PM
Other Data Explorer accounts, or other Stack Exchange accounts? In the latter case, Data Explorer is completely removed from the rest of the network, so it doesn't participate in information sharing with the other sites (I am contemplating optionally providing a sort of one-directional link now that the API supports authentication, though)
 
@TimStone :-) I understand now
thanks for your input
 
Sure thing. If you have any more questions, I'll be lurking. ;)
 
I've noticed you aren't in every room on the network - do you lurk in here because you particularly like the room?
he says hopefully :-)
 
Probably because I pester him so damned much
it's easier to just switch tabs
 
^ This
(kidding, though)
 
1:54 PM
lulz
 
I typically stick around in rooms I've entered for a particular reason before, unless I really don't have an interest in being there. Plus, have to keep tabs on everything that's going on, to give the illusion of being in every room. ;)
 
he he
 
It's only because he's a CTO and doesn't want to bother dating right now. When he gets a girlfriend, he'll stop this lurking nonsense.
 
Hahah
 
@jcolebrand Well until today I didn't even know he worked for SE - we keep on learning hey :-)
 
1:59 PM
he doesn't
I just meant he's CTO where he does work
 
see - I still learning even now
 
like how I'm sorta head researcher
 
you research heads?
 
@jcolebrand I'd happily do away with work for that first, actually. Well, all-consuming work anyway, obviously there's a pretty big financial investment that tends to go along with that. :P
 
Yes yes, whatever.
When you're ready to date, you will.
 
2:01 PM
@JackDouglas Don't worry, you're not the only confused one:
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Feb 25 at 3:16, by Yi Jiang's Proble_
@TimStone You're not an employee, yet you work for Stack Exchange. That even confuses me, sometimes ;)
 
@JackDouglas I'm the fastest learner, so I get the newest work that needs digesting. Then I regurgitate to the team.
 
2:15 PM
@jcolebrand That sounds surprisingly disgusting
 
you're welcome
 
@TimStone you work for stack exchange?
 
@BenBrocka it was on the blog. he did some work for them
call it a portfolio peace if you like
 
Groovy man
 
Right, but no, I don't work for them. I just occasionally do things that some would consider work on my own accord. And what Cole mentioned, that one time. :P
 
2:22 PM
Ah
 
I much prefer portfolio war myself.
over portfolio peace
 
I tend to digest work first, then liberally poo it into a fan
 
@DTest envision world peas
 
that is a lot of peas :(
 
Full of country goodness and green peaness
 
2:30 PM
@BenBrocka I am happy I was not drinking coffee at the moment of reading that
 
@DTest listen, I make one little typo and my users get scared; you're going to study under EL&U they said
I can't rhyme
 
Oh god I can commit straight from notepad++. So much time saved!
 
with what tool? someone release a plugin?
 
Just some subversion plugin
 
@BenBrocka ok, I'm going to start a flame war here: notepad2 rocks, notepad++ sucks
 
@JackDouglas pffft, your a brit, what do you know? (epic flames!)
 
@JackDouglas Geany FTW!
 
Pfft. TextMate = win
Mac OS > Windows
 
gvim > *
 
i'm partial to some vim too
emacs smells though
 
2:37 PM
@Phil smells of elderberries?
 
I used to use vim for everything - bizarrely I find myself using netbeans a lot now
 
Becoming a big fan of sublime text 2
 
I'm forced to use Linux as a work desktop :/
 
@Phil i stand by my geany recommendation.
but you've already professed your love for vim
 
2:41 PM
:D
 
2:54 PM
@swasheck I'd not seen Geany before. That said, I do most stuff in SQL Developer
 
@Phil probably better that way
 
@Phil On Linux I got quite a lot of mileage off YASQL and gvim - you can pipe query results to stuff from within YASQL. However, I don't think it's being maintained any more.
 
I do a lot of python noodling and I like what Geany has to offer in that regard.
 
If I need to do anythign out of the ordinary I'll usually knock up a perl script :)
 
2:59 PM
Notepad replacement.
@Phil I'd have to learn perl
 
@swasheck Try Python and cx_Oracle.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Yeah, I probably will have to. We've just been acquired by an Oracle shop
 
I see that no one at all agrees on what text editor to use, so the universe is in balance
 
@BenBrocka That's a great perspective to have
 
@BenBrocka Wait till we get onto marmite vs. vegemite.
 
3:02 PM
@DTest That one looked pretty but I'd rather not learn a new editor at this moment
 
@BenBrocka Understand. The things I love about it: fast loading, even large files; mini filemap so you can see what section of the file you're viewing; highly configurable. Core is light, and you can add what plugins you want/need. Dislikes: file management is non-existant (can't move files around within the editor).
 
Ma'amite is out soon. A celebration of the Queen
 
Another nice feature is you can create build systems based on filetypes (eg: pipe a .sql file into a database)
 
3:39 PM
Oops, forgot I was working at 6am for a server restart
Well past beer o'clock
Cya :)
 
@DTest can you do all that over ssh?
 
@jack never tried, but they have an rsub plugin that claims to ssh tunnel. going to have to try it out
 
@DTest I'm tempted. If I could have build systems, mercurial integration, php syntax all working over ssh that could save me a lot of time.
let me know if you manage to get it working :-)
 
hah, alright!
 
3:54 PM
@JackDouglas that's no moon
 
@JackDouglas I've had XVNC working over a 128k(!) DSL connection and it performed satisfactorily. Pretty sure that will tunnel over ssh fine.
 
@JackDouglas Mercurial plugin no idea how it works, and don't use mercurial so I probably won't attempt. Not sure about build systems, yet
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells it's not about performance it's whether the text editor has ssh built in or not
netbeans does which is why i use it
 
@JackDouglas sublime has very little 'built in'
 
@DTest builtin or plugin I mean :-)
just so long as I don't have to click any more buttons than I need to once it is set up
 
4:09 PM
@JackDouglas could you mount the remote via sshfs and use a mercurial plugin to commit?
then you could use the text editor of your choice (that has a mercurial plugin)
 
@swasheck yes, I could use expandrive for that, but I find that far harder than just using netbeans that does it for me - I have a lot of servers...
mercurial is actually the thing I am least bothered about
remove execute of sql scripts from a button in my editor? lush
@swasheck how many different rooms are you active in?
 
@JackDouglas never used expandrive. you cant auto remount with it?
@JackDouglas 2
 
@swasheck just picking up the thread in bh.se - I hope you and Frank have something to show for your efforts in the end :-)
@swasheck yes - it mostly just does it's stuff
 
@JackDouglas if civility and decorum are the only results, then i'll be satisfied
 
but you have to map a drive which is a pain when you have lots
@swasheck indeed that would be a result :-)
 
4:16 PM
@JackDouglas true. so you're pushing these out to multiple servers? there's got to be a way to automate that a bit more
i'm just ignorant of said way
(and by multiple, i mean lotso)
 
I'm going to have a tinker with Sublime Text 2 and see if I can get it to play nicely
 
@JackDouglas Probably better than waiting for me. I recommend getting Package Control to integrate package installation into the editor.
 
@DTest ta!
 
5:17 PM
@DTest found SFTP plugin but browsing files is a bit painful
shame, I really like the editor
 
@JackDouglas agreed, i had it installed and promptly deleted it :/
 
@JackDouglas how many servers do you have?
 
the biggest drawback, as i said, is the file listing/management...if they ever fix that and allow plugin integration into it (for sftp as example)...i'd do cartwheels
and make sure to video tape it and post to youtube for laughs
 
makes me think I should hunt around for something else better than my current solution though
 
what do you dislike about netbeans?
 
5:21 PM
@DTest can't build my sql remotely
at least not over ssh
also it is slow (java)
 
5:33 PM
what do you mean by build sql remotely?
 
@Gonsalu basically I'd like to execute a file on the remote server
eg:
begin; set role work;
create or replace view v_file as select * from file;
grant select on v_file to helpdesk_user;
commit;
which is a single source file on the server
I'd like to be able to run it with psql from my editor
I can do that server-side with vim (I think)
 
yeah, you can
 
5:54 PM
@JackDouglas so does vim just take a configured credential and psql -h <server> -d <db> -p <port> -i <file> ?
 
6:10 PM
you can give the current buffer as stdin for any command
 
@Gonsalu - where do you live?
 
 
2 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
10:41 PM
I see this (migrated) question has now been deleted dba.stackexchange.com/questions/12482/….
 
@MartinSmith yes, we're working on reverting some previous migrations. There's been a bit of back and forth on this.
 
Can someone with 10k rep or appropriate permissions give me the source of my answer please so I can paste it into the SO version? I think I've made some edits to it since migration. Seem to remember Rory (the accepted answerer) had made some updates to their answer too.
 
Sure
 
@jcolebrand Thanks!
 
It's a private gist, but you have the URL, so you should be able to copy from the raw?
 
10:47 PM
@jcolebrand Yep. That all worked fine. Thanks for that. Might be worth pinging Rory too.
... or just updating the SO version of his answer?
 
11:37 PM
@jcolebrand @MartinSmith Where is the SO version of that question? I thought when we migrated it back we'd get to see a link and automatic redirect from here to there for a few days.
 
11:58 PM
95
A: Why no love for SQL?

Stefan SteineggerThis is partly subjective. So this is my opinion: SQL has a pseudo-natural-language style. The inventors believed that they can create a language just like English and that database queries will be very simple. A terrible mistake. SQL is very hard to understand except in trivial cases. SQL is d...

 

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