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@BESW Super cool!
 
2:08 AM
posted on May 01, 2017 by DonyorM

Note: This is part of a series of short stories based in the world of Ivanturia. The primary purpose of the stories is to explore the world, so more focus has been given to that than plot. Previous Story Jovnik stood at the prow of his ship, watching the ground roll away beneath him. The USS Joriel bumped across the countryside, always drawing nearer to its prey. Legs twisted beneath the vehic

 
 
5 hours later…
6:43 AM
@Green When I made decorative screens for my gazebo, I determined I could cut to an accuracy of 2 1/1000 ths of an inch. Have to keep the wood stored in controlled conditions or it changes by more than that!
 
6:54 AM
@BESW great! I updated my Answers that refer to that, with a link to the fresh video.
In the mobile version of this page, I can’t link back to a post that contains no text other than a link! There’s nothing to click on that doesn’t follow the link instead.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
3 hours later…
10:35 AM
Good morning WorldBuilding
 
10:55 AM
Hey, this question was closed for being broad: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/79679/…
But the way I read it there are way broader questions we accept. It lacks research and I'm not a fan of it as a question for a few reasons but I'm not sure it comes under "broad".
 
11:36 AM
hey there @Secespitus
 
Good morning @Shalvenay
How's it going?
 
alright here
 
12:06 PM
@JDługosz that doesn't surprise me at all. What accuracy did you end up cutting to. Sure, 2 thousandths is possible. What margins did actually cut to?
@LioElbammalf do you have any examples of too broad but still open? If they're too broad then they should be closed. Some of our most upvoted questions have been closed as too broad.
 
1:08 PM
3
Q: Too broad? Crashing Earth into the sun

Lio ElbammalfSo I came across this question asking about how the make the Earth hit the sun. It has many similar posts like this one about changing the moon's orbit or this answer about moving asteroids which could be generalised to apply to the problem. There may be a lack of research and other problems, I'm...

 
Gentlemen?
Is the Unruh Effect going to be a problem for any possible Alcubierre metric, assuming it even is in the first place?
 
1:26 PM
@FutureHistorian Definitely, possibly.
 
How much of a problem?
To the point it does not count as an FTL system?
Also, NOTE: @Green. Is there any way to allow for the Unruh Effect to become more apparent at velocities between 15 and 20 c?
 
@FutureHistorian What's special about 15 to 20c?
 
Just a random estimate I came up with to at least have travel still take years.
For example: let's say I want to get to the other side of the Galaxy.
At 20 c, it would take 5,000 years just to get there.
At least if going on a straight line.
Also, gentlemen. If I made a fictional galaxy, what do I need to take into account?
 
@FutureHistorian It's your world you only need to take into account what you want to.
 
I want to make this Galaxy as realistic as I possibly can.
Well, except for the fact that the Unruh Effect has a higher speed limit.
But that aside, what do real life Galaxies have that I need to account for when making a fictional one?
Well?
What does a real life Galaxy have that I need to account for when making fictional Galaxies?
 
1:43 PM
Everything.... It all depends on what is relevant for your story.
 
Well, what are common characteristics of Galaxies anyway?
I know that there are spiralled, barred spiralled, elliptical, ring, dwarf, irregular, etc.
But what common characteristics do they have?
 
That's a question for astronomy.stackexchange.com
 
Oh.
Well, the trick is.....that I want to know what common characteristics to consider when making a fictional one.
 
That depends on what is relevant to the world you are building. Super Mario Galaxy didn't ask the question and created a galaxy that was entirely acceptable for their purposes. I don't think the same design constraints would be appropriate for Mass Effect: Andromeda.
 
Exactly.
Mass Effect: Andromeda was a real life Galaxy.
They already had the basis for that one.
 
1:49 PM
Not by the time they were done with it.
 
But imagine one like the Star Wars Galaxy.
That is when things change.
 
a galaxy has a bunch of stars. You probably don't need all of them, so for a while you can just assume the stars you need are in the places you say they are
 
Well, agreed.
 
So something vaguely spiral shaped to allow your space fantasy story to have a map like more traditional fantasy.
 
Besides, I did the math and the Gemini Galaxy (aka: NGC 7841), has 480,000,000 explored systems out of 600,000,000,000 systems.
And I am trying to go realistic on this.
Well, mostly realistic.
So, is that good?
Meh. Correction: 4,800,000,000 systems out of 600,000,000,000 systems explored.
 
1:57 PM
??? We haven't even fully explored our own solar system yet.
Where did you get your numbers from?
 
Meh. This is for my fictional Galaxy, you know.
 
Cool.
 
The problem is, there are 28 interstellar civilisations at the time the Galaxy's present-day (aka: 50 million years ago), existing so far.
 
@FutureHistorian, I have a question about your story: Who's the target audience and how much astronomy/astrophysics knowledge do they have?
@James o/
 
Happy timezone, all!
 
2:00 PM
@Green Quit stalking me!
(morning)
 
I am trying to go full-blown hard science.
 
Hola Green and James!
 
@FutureHistorian Careful or you'll go blind
 
Well, except for Alcubierre metric and wormholes, so.......... :(
 
@SerbanTanasa ...you're still alive?
 
2:00 PM
So, MOSTLY hard science fiction.
 
So what is the history behind wishing people happy timezone on here?
 
@James Of course. mild invulnerability is a mod superpower. We're immune to anything that can't hurt us.
 
@sphennings Mainly its trying to be less US-centric.
 
So, 600,000,000 stars in a Galaxy that is 150,000 light years in diameter.
That is 50 million years away from our planet.
 
@FutureHistorian That doesn't answer my question. How much does your audience know about astrophysics? Everyone who has followed your chat log know you want as hard-science as possible :)
 
2:01 PM
And on top of that, hosts 28 (at the moment) interstellar civilisations.
Well, that, I am unsure.
I wish I knew.
Because I do want to make it open to any audience with some basic knowledge on the matter.
 
@FutureHistorian Then you're probably never going to be hard-science enough.
 
@JAmes, have not been too active on chat lately
 
@James Cool!
 
But have a 45 vote answer from Friday, so not entirely slouching off
 
@FutureHistorian Discussing the Unruh Effect is not basic knowledge. I've followed astrophysics for years and never heard of it.
 
2:03 PM
Well, to introduce audiences to it without relying on the math. The Unruh Effect is best described as the following: "The prediction that an accelerating observer will observe blackbody radiation where an inertial observer would observe none. In other words, the background appears to be warm from an accelerating reference frame; in layman's terms, a thermometer waved around in empty space, subtracting any other contribution to its temperature, will record a non-zero temperature."
 
@Green Probably a better question is "How much does the plot of your story depend on the nuances of astrophysics?" Because if the answer is "Not at all" just make it look good enough and save yourself the time of designing something that doesn't matter.
 
@sphennings Well said.
 
@SerbanTanasa If you're not in chat in all your blue-ness it doesnt count.
@Green Yeah but what's the fun in that?
 
Basically, if you have Alcubierre metric, a black hole forms behind the spacecraft INSIDE the warp bubble, and a white hole forms in the front. Given that it exceeds 1 c, the Hawking Radiation could build up to the extent that your spacecraft might get fried alive, IN REAL LIFE.
In this world, however, that speed limit is higher.
As in: between 15 and 20 c higher.
 
@James lots of fun.
 
2:05 PM
And fun fact: the species of this Galaxy are not even close to getting to that speed limit.
So, probably not relevant, is it?
Wait, is that aspect relevant or not?
Then again, they do also have wormholes in the mix to travel between colonised systems so..........
@Green?
Does that wormhole travel mixed with slow warp travel work?
 
@FutureHistorian In a meeting
 
@FutureHistorian It's your story. It works if you say it works.
 
Oh.
Well, I want that story to have the limitations of reality (mostly), but also be interesting.
No ignoring Sir Issac Newton in space warfare or the Tyranny of the Rocket Equation.
And at least trying to get Einstein to help a bit, but not necessarily throw him out the window.
So, I will have to do.
Now, the only issue I have with this is less the actual story and more the science behind it.
I need a way to make sure that the story is within the constraints of science.
 
@Green Speaking of Sci-Fi we finished our 3ish year DnD 5e campaign and started a new campaign in a different system called Alternity. You'd freaking love it, its sci-fi tabletop.
 
Wait, wait, wait.
When are we doing a GURPS: Transhuman Space campaign anyway?
Or an Eclipse Phase one?
 
2:14 PM
My previous character in this system was a Mechalus which is basically a human with built in cybernetics
I modded him out so he could carry a weapon that had formerly been on a space ship and gave him optics so good he could snipe people from orbit.
(we played a little loose with the rules but it was fun)
 
@James Arm mounted orbital laser?
 
@James I've heard that that's impossible. Or off-topic, I forget which
 
@DaaaahWhoosh too story based
 
oh, right, that's it
 
2:16 PM
So? Has anyone even touched this game?
 
@AndyD273 Pretty much yeah. Due to a series of events that character basically turned all robot and at one point I opened the cargo bay of our starship, hung out the back and destroyed a tank on the ground from orbit...while my friend jumped sans parachute on top of another one.
 
You know: Shock Social Science Fiction?
 
Mind you I had no space suit on...
 
@James Well he's a robot. a suit would just get in the way
 
Exactly
 
2:18 PM
@FutureHistorian Galaxies are way too wacky to have any common characteristics. They come in all different shapes and sizes.
 
Oh.
Well, then. That makes sense.
Also, I may have had noticed something.
 
@FutureHistorian Never heard of that, any good?
 
Shock:Social Science Fiction is a pen-and-paper indie RPG about the effects of the shock of cultural change on the individuals who make up that culture. The title is a reference to Alvin Toffler's Future Shock, the concept that rapid culture changes leave the members of the culture increasingly challenged by adaptation. It was first published in 2006 and has since been through two point version updates. == Notable Features == The game is designed to be used by player to make "what if" science fiction, rather than science-flavored fantasy adventure. The science fiction elements (called "Shocks"...
@James
This should help.
There is even a link to their official page.
They even had a setting for use with this thing called Shock: Human Contact.
:P
 
@HDE226868 Just like humans!
@FutureHistorian Stupid work firewalls...
 
Oh...........
 
2:21 PM
I mean I can look at the wiki page...
 
Basically, if you think about it, it is basically a custom RPG.
And it can be adapted to make social science fiction.
 
@James Well . . . we're slightly more regular.
 
So, basically, if you want to focus on the society of a fictional world, this could be it.
:P
 
Also, my cool random astronomy picture of the day: Hoag's object (image from Wikipedia, in the public domain):
 
So, @HDE226868. Add in Alcubierre metric with a 20 c speed limit, combine them with wormholes that connect between colonised systems and what happens?
Also 28 total interstellar civilisations.
 
2:26 PM
Apr 26 at 19:26, by HDE 226868
@EnigmaMaitreya I'm a physics student, not a witch doctor.
 
Oh.................
:/
Well, the issue is: if I have a total of 600 billion systems, 28 interstellar civilisations, and (slow) Alcubierre Metric and Wormholes being mixed in around 8,000 - 14,000 years after these civilisations first left their home systems in STL spacecraft, then what am I looking at in terms of how much of the Galaxy could be explored?
 
@HDE226868 sanity check this question idea: So you see super hero's with fire flying all the time...which makes a certain amount of sense. is there anyway within the realm of real physics that you could do the same thing with someone that is able to create ice? (obviously I mean real physics outside of a dude being able to magically create ice)
So like the human torch, but with ice.
and I want him to be able to use that power to fly...
 
Oh, I get the feeling I am being parodied right now.
:(
I hate it when that happens.
I really do.
 
@James Frozone?
 
If its because of me I can tell you that I am not.
I had that idea pop into my brain yesterday.
 
2:32 PM
Oh.
 
@James I'm writing an answer on meta. I'll be with you in a second.
 
Well, fine. Since the hard science part is getting extremely complicated, I am going to try to prioritise my cyberpunk world.
:P
 
@James I wanted to tell you, I played my first game of DnD over the weekend
I punched a harpy and it died. It was a good time.
 
@James Keep me up to date on what happens in the game!
 
@FutureHistorian, that's easy
you only need a disk-shaped simulation, populating at random 28 points, expand at STL from each in a sphere over 14,000 years (or from various starting points)
 
2:44 PM
@James Creating ice from nothing, or turning water into ice?
 
calculate volume inside spheres, divicde by total volume of galactic disk
repeat ~5,000 times
R or Python would be easiest to implement
get an average rate of expansion
now this gets a bit more complicated with wormholes
if they provide insta-travel
 
And they do not.
The models I am using include Visser Wormholes.
 
do they move relative to the populated systems? or do they orbit populated systems
 
So, they look like giant cubes floating in deep space.
:P
Well, they are at the outer edge of their respective systems.
But yes, they probably orbit celestial bodies.
But they are basically in the outer edges of those systems.
 
well, still not the end of the world
you can randomly populate a density of wormholes (I am assuming they are point to point)
when a civilization's radius expands to engulf a wormhole, you can start a new expanding bubble from the wormhole exit point
do that for each wormhole reached
still need to repeat a few thousand times to get a good avg estimate
and will strongly be influenced by wormhole density
Think of it as a 3D matrix. all except for the central disk is black (void). Central disk starts mostly red, with 28 green dots inside. neighbors of the green dots move from red to green as the 28 civs expand -- and occasionally a new green dot appears as a wormhole terminus is reached by a civ
 
2:52 PM
Well, in my case, if the wormhole is made into a time machine......it kind of destabilises and explores, destroying anything within a 1 light year radius of the initial BOOM BOOM.
And that is not even accounting for the gamma rays.
 
?
I guess you don't wanna make it into a time machine then
 
The Visser Effect from Orion's Arm.
Is in here.
 
ah cauchy horizons
 
So, basically, how does the Visser Effect work in OA?
And how can I replicate it in this fictional Galaxy?
@SerbanTanasa?
What happens when you have a cauchy horizon?
Death?
 
@HDE226868 From nothing...so sort of like the kid from the xmen movies.
 
3:01 PM
@James Well, conservation of mass-energy just went out the window.
 
Did you just throw Einstein and thermodynamics out the window?
@James
 
@FutureHistorian the areas past a black hole event horizon's are ONE relatively mild example of a Cauchy horizon -- they generally rip their way out of our spacetime
 
So, basically, what happens in the Visser Effect in Orion's Arm?
 
causality breaks down
In real-world physics the answer is basically we don't know -- the equations stop having singular answers
this leads some people to posit that they are unstable -- hence the explosions -- but we really don't know
 
Well, that makes sense.
So, basically wormhole gets unstable. Wormhole explodes in a giant supernova. Anything within the blast radius is destroyed, not counting the Gamma Ray Bursts.
:/
Oh oh......................
 
3:11 PM
@DaaaahWhoosh Seen NASA's new space chain mail yet?
 
@AndyD273 Pretty!
 
Oh, and Sheeple is in the dictionary now. Definition: 1. “people who are docile, compliant, or easily influenced: people likened to sheep.”
Usage example: “Apple's debuted a battery case for the juice-sucking iPhone—an ungainly lumpy case the sheeple will happily shell out $99 for. — Doug Criss”
 
@FutureHistorian I've been away a while, so might have missed something, but how do you have an Alcubierre metric with a speed limit?
 
@Green Yeah. I kinda wonder if the plates could be shaped so that they lock together if there is an impact... could provide more protection.
 
3:16 PM
@FutureHistorian Also, how much slower than light? 8k-14k years in their travelling frames or the frames of the the original planets?
 
@FutureHistorian @HDE226868 Kind of I guess what I am going for is a physical explanation for flight with the ability to create either from nothing or from the available water around the ability to fly...if it is at all possible.
@AndyD273 I want one
@HDE226868 You remember our conversations about creating fireballs with the relevant impact to reality, not just "magic" kind of like that.
 
@AndyD273 huh, it kinda looks like what MCU Thor wears on his arms
I'm now going to incorporate chainmail into my space-vikings
(they use an unknown form of FTL to sneak-attack science installations, and also their guns transform into swords)
 
@DaaaahWhoosh You're making space vikings?
 
@James yeah, of course I'm making space Vikings
 
@DaaaahWhoosh Huh, guess I hadn't actually noticed that. Interesting.
 
3:25 PM
Back.
Well, @Mithrandir24601. Ask the Unruh Effect. As for STL. Think between 0.1 c in the first 300 years, then 0.2 - 0.4 c 400 years afterwards, then peaking at 0.75 c.
So, at first, probably Orion arks, then Breakthrough: Starshot spacecraft, with humans and magnetic sails on them, then the antimatter rockets.
Until the Alcubierre metric and Visser wormholes come into play.
 
@DaaaahWhoosh Seems like axes would be be more appropriate...
Knowledge about military technology of the Viking Age (end of 8th- to mid-11th-century Europe) is based on relatively sparse archaeological finds, pictorial representation, and to some extent on the accounts in the Norse sagas and laws recorded in the 13th century. According to custom, all free Norse men were required to own weapons, as well as permitted to carry them at all times. Indeed, the Hávamál, purported to be sage advice given by Odin, states "Don't leave your weapons lying about behind your back in a field; you never know when you may need all of sudden your spear." As war was the most...
The used swords too, but axes were the weapons that the wealthy used
 
@DaaaahWhoosh I don't often say this to you but... that's awesome
 
Oh, the hull breaching tools could be something like a plasma axe
 
@AndyD273 looks to me like it's the swords that were the wealthy person weapons
 
So? That good?
And @Mithrandir24601. I meant within the frames of the home systems.
 
3:29 PM
@DaaaahWhoosh Oh, wait, you're right. That's what I get for speed reading it...
 
either way, axes might be better. I'm having a hard time getting the gun-swords to look right
I'm trying to make a crossguard out of the grip and magazine, with the stock doubling as the grip when you're actually using it as a sword
 
@FutureHistorian OK - fair enough. Only the Unruh effect (if I'm remembering right) relates temperature and acceleration and the Alcubierre drive also defines an acceleration
 
A gun axe.
 
So, if you say you have an upper speed limit, I say, run the drive a bit longer and you've gone even faster
 
Oh, great.
In real life, the Unruh Effect makes the Alcubierre an overpowered STL engine, BUT I made it higher than it was previously believed to be.
So.....
 
3:33 PM
@Mithrandir24601 IIRC, isn't the reason you can't go faster than light in real space because the faster you go, the more energy it takes to go faster? So at some point you'd have to have infinite energy to go from .99999999999999999C to 1C
 
You could limit the amount of (negative) energy you have or limit the time you could run the drive for? Would that help?
@AndyD273 The Alcubierre drive gets round this by using negative energy
 
ah, gotcha. I need to feed some negative energy through my electric meter...
 
Agreed.
@Mithrandir24601. To be honest, there is a limit to how much negative mass/energy you can store in your FTL system, hence the 20 c limit.
Also the Unruh Effect kicks in if you go any faster.
As in: past 20 c, your spacecraft will likely be deliciously toasted by Hawking Radiation.
So, @Mithrandir24601? Why are you asking? Curiosity sake or attempting to simulate the STL expansion of my 28 interstellar empires?
docs.google.com/document/d/… NOTE: The species history sections are empty, so.......you have been warned.
And these numbers are NOT final.
Well, on the 28 interstellar societies, I mean.
And descriptions.
 
how big is the galaxy -- radius?
 
It is 150,000 light years in diameter.
 
3:44 PM
@SerbanTanasa The Milky Way is only 100,000 light years in diameter
 
Meaning that it is 75,000 light years in radius.
 
@AndyD273, I mean @FutureHistorian's
 
By comparison, the Milky Way has 50,000 light years in radius.
 
Sorry.
Not diameter. Radius.
 
3:44 PM
:)
 
I know that, @AndyD273.
I just used the incorrect terminology.
And mixed up "diameter" with "radius".
So?
Is the preliminary data good?
 
Will run a simple 2D sim, exlcuding wormholes when i get the chance, send you the R code.
 
That makes sense.
And NOTE: The wormholes are only connected to colonised systems.
Meaning that any travel beyond those colonised systems will require using either Alcubierre metric or some STL engine capable of reaching anywhere from 0.1 to 0.75 c.
 
womholes will have to be the next iteration -- I actually have a day-job :)
 
Makes sense.
NOTE: These simulations could help me very easily, and determine the age of interstellar civilisation overall.
Wait, @SerbanTanasa? At what time can I expect you to run the simulation?
Or time frame, at least?
 
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