@HDE226868 my instinct is that the speed of gravity per se is not an issue because of the magic quadrupole that makes it not an issue in real life; the centripital force points to the sun's actual position, not the position where it was when the gravity left. but over wrapping distances, parallel transport will mess it up again and each lap will be torqued.
@DaaaahWhoosh said: "nor is it about making enemies, it is for asking questions and providing answers." Yet you advocate a system that demands subservience or you are an enemy. As I said elsewhere, I have been with SE since it went online and expert-exchange. "Asking questions and providing answers" Yes that is what SE is. You need to own your words of my expectations, they are not mine :) They are yours own them OR continue to attribute them to me.
@DaaaahWhoosh Your rules are NOT enforced symmetrically by your own admission. Oh it is Bah well he couldn't write a good question because he won't do what we demand he do. Oh, same question asked of your bud Ok that is a HELL OF A GOOD QUESTION.
@DaaaahWhoosh Yes SE is about rules. This forum and 1 other is a Big Brother/Sister system. THAT is not what SE has ever been about. You sell the concept that you speak for everyone .... yet it is clear there is NOT unanimous consent on your subjective interpretation of the rules OR the definition of what this forum is for.
@DaaaahWhoosh What is amazing is that either your completely unaware your currency is intimidation or you are aware and ..... The other thing you make quite clear is if one wants a good question or answer then it stands a better chance IF your group approve it first and let them change it to be their question/answer not yours.
@DaaaahWhoosh If the question/answer is challenged by another group then accept your going to be thrown under the bus as the group will take no responsibility or ownership for their edit. Are you seeing why I treat editing as an ethical issue yet? It is far easier to create a fantasy world to judge what someone said etc than it is to be objective and take them literally, thus allowing them to take responsibility for what they say.
@DaaaahWhoosh Am I forcing my view on your group? In your fantasy I am, I am doing nothing more than point out inappropriate behavior and I feel comfortable with that. As judging someone question / answer based on your past history with them is inappropriate behavior which of course is an extension of your assertion about what SE is and what this forum is.
@DaaaahWhoosh Newbies are worthless they must bow down and do as we say, after due payment we will grant them status. IF you do not think that is what you said then we shall simply be in a state of disagreement on what the words that constitute the English language mean.
@EnigmaMaitreya Buddy you need to grow up and learn about how socially cohesive groups function. You can come in here and fight and yell and type and whatever. But there are plenty of use who have been here for a while and like it here.
@EnigmaMaitreya And if we don't like your behavior (not you; your behavior) then you won't be welcome in the club
@EnigmaMaitreya This is not Reddit or any other 'forum' this is a Q&A site, and we, the longtime users, are going to work to keep it that way
@EnigmaMaitreya If you are just here to fight, it may be fun, but ultimately you are just a troll. If you don't want to play by site rules, play elsewhere, we don't want you.
@kingledion I dare say I know a great deal more about that subject than you - personally you are most certainly needing to earn my respect for you. I am not here to fight. If I have broken any rule then it is an unwritten rule and I acknowledge your gag order
@EnigmaMaitreya Honestly I just can't take you seriously, because it's obvious you have no respect for this site. If you don't like how it's being run, then suggest solutions, and we will consider them. But we're not just going to make you a moderator and submit to your will because you tell us you're smarter than we are
this isn't a perfect place; there will be mistakes made. We don't pay anyone to moderate the site, it's all volunteer work. We accept that people will act irrationally, and we hope that users who think they're being treated unfairly will bring up the issue, so we can help them.
@DaaaahWhoosh said"But we're not just going to make you a moderator and submit to your will because you tell us you're smarter than we are" I reply with all sincerity and honesty, I have 0 interest in moderating this forum period. You will either take that literally as true or you should own your fantasy that I am not being truthful. I have had my fill of moderating forums.
@EnigmaMaitreya so, you don't want to moderate, but you will stand by and criticize how we are doing it, and insult us. I don't see how that is a useful way for any of us to spend our time
@kingledion but if I give up now, one of us will continue to be wrong
@DaaaahWhoosh No, I will stand by and make an assertion when I see bad behaviour. You need to look and see where I have demanded change to my will. You will find no such demand has ever been made. I am a voice that points out your behaviour, if you agree then you choose how to respond to it. if you do not agree then I am wrong. Nothing more nothing less.
It may be that I am seeing words on the screen than change :) it doesn't matter if you did not say that then what I said still remains as I wont edit what others type. I will never ever demand change I simply say what I see nothing more nothing less no enemy I hate you nothing.
Said more simply I do not tell how people how to do or be. I tell them what I see, you may or may not have seen that on the hated poster and his reply that he only does it to bait you.
take your conspiracy theories somewhere else, please. There's no "Big Brother" waiting to close, or subvert your posts. Grow up.
Worldbuilding has a stated scope, the fringes of which fluctuates as the community debates it. The core is quite solid, although some questions might squeak through based on popularity. That's not a system of oppression, it's just the natural dynamics of a bunch of people engaging in conversation.
You and your buddy (I forget his name) seem to think that everyone is out to get you. You both seem to think you knows what this site should be better than anyone else…
@EnigmaMaitreya I think it's noble to allow people to be themselves, but I stick to the idea that when in Rome, you abide by Roman laws. We have a meritocracy here, if you abide by our rules long enough you can begin to change them. But many new users will never come back, it is a terrible idea to let them decide how the site works, when it's the veterans who will have to enforce the new rules as those users who defined them move on.
if you think you have a legitimate reason for complaint post on meta as to what you see as the issue, and what changes you'd like. Then a debate can take place.
@AndreiROM No I see no point in lieing or playing games. Think about it, if one tells the truth always it is guaranteed that human nature will pervert what they say. So I simplify my life and be honest and truthful.
@EnigmaMaitreya LOL. You won't engage the community in a conversation because we're all corrupt, yet you are the knight in shinning armor simply communicating to the rest of us how corrupt and horrible we are
@EnigmaMaitreya you run around in circles, and when asked to state your position to the community and propose your "solutions" you call us corrupt, and claim that we're not worth your time
@JourneymanGeek there's a user who's been posting somewhat low-quality questions, it seems people aren't taking him seriously any more, and closing his questions because he's the one asking them
@DaaaahWhoosh had his question today not already been closed I would have VTC, yet I didn't recognize the name or know his post history. It was simply a poor question.
@DaaaahWhoosh I am trying to account for the true statement you made. Insider may be echo clambering everything. An honest, objective external agent may be helpful if not viwed as the enemy
@JourneymanGeek I am not clear who is who in here I had wanted to confine my conversation to @DaaaahWhoosh for clarity. No offense but please let me know if I should instead confine my conversation to you instead.
@EnigmaMaitreya Nope, I'm asking a very simple question.
I'm the only moderator in this room at the moment, unless @JDługosz is conscious, and it would be helpful for me to be aware of this to help keep things running smoothly
@JourneymanGeek Ok, it read like a demand. My goal is nothing more sinister than to insure people that have the power to make this a better more inclusive place see themselves through an external persons view that has no interest in being their enemy or viewing them as an enemy
@EnigmaMaitreya I would say an external perspective is good. But such a perspective can often miss a lot of things that you need to be an 'insider' to see
@JourneymanGeek A tiny fraction of my background. I have moderated UO and EQ forums and know to well moderators are always hated. I have GM'd both games a different form of moderation and know GM's are hated. I have 0 interest
@JourneymanGeek said "I rather not have to use it." and that was my posture and it ends up being nothing but freaking greif, not from the company's peers but from the ones being moderated and I have better things to do with my life
I say again with all scincerity and honesty I have no interest in being someone that has anything that even hints at ahthority or power other than the persuasiveness of my words.
@Shalvenay It was something along the lines of "Is social justice a form of social hive mind which is meant to protect society" or something along those lines
it was a little more .. rambly (is that a word?) than that
I think the whole notion of "social justice" is problematic in that it interferes with the cultural aspects needed for data-driven problem-solving and honest debate
@AndreiROM More precisely I pointed out that if it was revenge it was inappropriate and then gave the OP a way to wrap the question to whjich he then went totaly stupid (my opinion)
@EnigmaMaitreya Well, I felt the question was out of scope, and I have no idea who the OP is. His reaction was indeed unproductive. Anyway, if you feel that it was wrongly closed you can post on meta and bring it to the community's attention. That's the mechanism for dealing with weird community behavior or discrepencies here
You guys need to be honest and look at how you all talk about him. It does not sound like you would give him the time of day and that applies to his posts.
On this site I'm usually the person who VTCs .. I usually err on the side of closing questions I feel are out of scope. But I'm also, I think, very willing to help users bring their questions within scope (again, interpreted by me).
But I'm overruled by other users all the time, which is fine. It's how the system works.
@JourneymanGeek and as Mel would say that be the truth
@AndreiROM said "But I'm also, I think, very willing to help users bring their questions within scope (again, interpreted by me)." and that is what I would prefer to see more of and let me make it clear, it is a) a generalization meaning there will be exceptions b) it is just my opinion, not a demand, not a criticism on my part etc.
That is to say NOT take ownership of the question/answer but work with them to have them retain ownership and responsibility
@AndreiROM said "no one unilaterally edits a post and changes its meaning" this is a FRIENDLY conversation I was and hope to continue with @DaaaahWhoosh when he has time. It started when he did a Spock thing and Raised an Eyebrow at me when I said I could not edit someones post due to Ethics. As I also replied to the answer I sent to meta that I could not give detailed answers because of my ethics when the OP did not ask for them and stated clearly he/she was writing a book.
@AndreiROM not at all, but I do not care to have a dogmatic conversation about it. I do 100% understand the prevailing wisdom is to provide details. Yet people use the spoiler thing (which I have not mastered here). Creativity is a fragile thing (have you ever had an original thought?) Writing a Book is a creative act. I feel obliged to not interfere. Leading to I believe the originator of the Q/A should always make the changes using their own words.
To be clear, it is just my take on life and is not a demand and I accept the consequences of a down vote or worse
@JourneymanGeek You didn't but this all started with the perception that I was and wanted to take over the forum and change everything :) I could ask if you think you have a better understanding of me and my goal which is what you asked.
@EnigmaMaitreya «As I said elsewhere, I have been with SE since it went online and expert-exchange.» but your profile says 24 days, with a total of 1 question (not on WB).
@EnigmaMaitreya You really need to learn how to communicate clearly. I just read the whole thing and beyond some vague sense of outrage that an off topic question (and I just looked at it, it was very unclear, completely incoherent and clearly off topic) was closed I still have no idea what you were talking about. The question was OT, it got closed. That happens all the time. We've all had questions closed. It's not personal.
@EnigmaMaitreya And for the record stack exchange is moderated for the most part by the users, for the users. Moderators certainly are not "hated" or "feared". I've been a mod here on worldbuilding since the beta started - I'm still a person, I still write questions and answers. They still get voted on just the same as anyone else's. I even got voted in as a permanent moderator after serving 18 months as a pro tem... so if people disliked me that would have been their chance to get rid of me.
Post a lot of bad questions, they'll all get closed. The pattern isn't the closing - it's the bad questions. Try asking better questions ;) We actually have systems in place to detect if people start closing or up/downvoting based on who posted something rather than the actual content and doing so is against the rules.
It's been deleted so I can't link you to it. Basically it was some rambling about social justice (apparently we all know what that is but I honestly have no idea what he was talking about) coupled with some vague psychology theory questions that might be on topic on a psych stack after a lot of cleaning up but certain weren't worldbuilding.
so yeah, that happened :) we seem to have had a run recently with people coming in and asking repeated off topic questions. Rejecting all attempts to help them. Then crying they are being oppressed.
@TimB I infer from reading that your a local mod and @JourneymanGeek is a global mod. I am unclear as to what your trying to say. It mostly sounds like you want to speak about a question that was not mine and then .... what attribute it to me? Where did I say "Moderators certainly are not "hated" or "feared"." I have looked back and could not find a single instance of me saying this. Is this a more solid case that your attributing your words to me? I am not here to fight anyone
@EnigmaMaitreya Yeah, I'm a Worldbuilding mod. Journeyman is a Superuser(? I think) mod. The chat system is global so we can all help out on that but in the Q&A/Meta site you are only a mod where you are a mod.
My message about hated was a reply to one of yours, click on the little arrow and it will take you to the original statement
@EnigmaMaitreya This is the problem. No-one here sees you as an enemy. Even if someone is causing trouble/breaking rules/whatever else they are still not the "enemy". They are someone who unfortunately action needs to be taken against but the idea of an enemy is just strange.
But because there is a disagreement or something is unclear then you are immediately leaping to "enemy" and also saying how you fix it. The first fix is rather than assuming someone sees you as an enemy try thinking that maybe they are trying to help. That's what this site is here for. To help people. Specifically in this case with building imaginary worlds.
@TimB Can you please point me to where I have leaped to calling someone an enemy? Are you saying that if I disagree then I am saying they are my enemy?
@TimB Let us be perfectly clear I at no point, under any circumstance leap to or consider anyone an enemy. I am not clear how to refute words generated by others as something I have said other than to say point me to where I said that. I am a believer that one should always tell the truth, be concise, say what you mean and mean what you say.
@Bellerophon I am trying to deal with the source to these kinds of statement "you are immediately leaping to "enemy"" I do no such thing I see that as pointless. It is not I that injected these terms. I am saying I have no clue why anyone would say, think or feel these things.
@TimB Where did I say that? It would be easy for anyone to think I am playing word games I am not. I just want to be sure I am being accused of saying something that is in reality the manifestation of someone else interpretation. I can deal with that :)
@TimB :) let us be clear "enemy" is your term not mine.
but you are doing it again here "accused". No-one is accusing you of anything. However because anyone disagrees with you or tries to give you advice you immediately leap to words like "enemy" or "accused". This is not an adversarial process.
@TimB Ok, this isn't going anywhere You assert that I said something. I stated clearly did not if you do not call that an accusation then We probably are not using the same english
@TimB You have stated that the concept of enemy is wrong I have stated clearly I agree and that I have not used the term. My use of accused is appropriate
@Bellerophon Yep, that's the one. And mine were in reply to it - as I said if he clicks the arrow he can see.
@EnigmaMaitreya So go read my reply. I'm pointing out to you that you are making a very large leap by going from "moderation discussion" to "enemy". And then you started saying I was "making accusations". There were no accusations. You are looking for arguments/accusations/enmity where there are none and using language like enemy and accusation to inflate them.
"@TimB I am do not see anyone as my enemy. If someone sees me as their enemy than how do I fix that? " That is a post in this room from you about 57 mins ago.
And for the record that alert that something was posted on the q/a seems to have affected things as it is disabled I must simply refresh the page to clear it
I guess all I'm saying is there is no need for drama, and emotive terms like "enemy" and "accused" are inviting drama. We have disagreements all the time on worldbuilding. We discuss them, we work them out. We all have the same goal - which is being the best worldbuilding Q&A resource we can be.
start from the position that people are trying to help you, not attack you, and you'll be much happier in life. Sometimes they will disappoint you but more often than not they won't...and if they do then you've learned something important about who is worth spending your time on in future :)
@TimB Except in this case it failed me. I saw something that clearly does not exist and responded to it. If I copy it then I clearly have no excuse for not understanding what I am replying to do I.
@TimB Then I assume it is pretty much a standard set of tools for moderating
Your reply is in response to a comment I made earlier in the thread. It still has the original highlighted... it was the one about communicating clearly and that we've all had questions closed.
@EnigmaMaitreya All mods and chat room owners have the same tools in chat. They can ban people, delete posts, pin stuff to the star board, create new room owners and freeze the room if need be.
in practice there is little difference between high reputation standard users and diamond moderators (so called because there is a diamond next to our name)
high rep users have access to most of the moderation tools. All users have equal rights to speak and vote and be heard through the various mechanisms such as meta
high rep users generally have a better understanding of both the site and the subject so listening to them may be a good idea but no-one is forcing you to do so any more than they are forcing you to do anything else. They do not have authority beyond the moderation tools unlocked by their reputation score. However they do have experience.
@Shalvenay said "moderation is a distributed function on Stacks." which is pretty damn vague in the context of @TimB and @JourneymanGeek saying they all moderators can moderate other areas. Or in short it is confusing as the statement seems to imply once again equality between the Moderator and Users. Shrug in the end it is my responsibility to determine what things are. Just a comment, in my house guest are treated with respect, they do not need to earn it.
I mean, not for demonstrating the fate of downvoters, but because it's related to the question.
Does this contradict any rules in the site?
If not, what criteria can justify it?
@TimB The often repeated ... what ever by the few is "You need to earn respect here". I doubt seriously I have the skill sets at this time and am not inclined to look for it. I am not saying that statement is about me. My statement was in contrast to that often times statement "You must earn respect here and here is how you do that ...."
No. People said you have to earn "reputation". That is the score you earn by answering/asking/moderating/generally being a positive contribution to the site
@Shalvenay I wanted to take the time to think about this reply as to why even make it vs what possible value can I gain from it. self-deleted a bunch of stuff Thank you for your observation. self-deleted stuff
@Shalvenay in the context of keeping my statements simple
random short story idea (because this seems like a good place to store them): people set up a surprise attack in space by latching onto a comet and letting it carry them past the enemy's defenses.
@Bellerophon There was also a cult that was certain and of course no one has definitively proven them wrong that there was a ship behind a comet and all they had to do to get there was mass suicide. shrug who knows maybe things are not what we think, but me ... hum I am not sure I dieing to find out.
sorry if this question it's a little stupid but how this worldbuilding page works? People builds his own worlds or they are just questions that you find interesting to talk about? If people builds their own worlds what they do with them, they talk about them in a blog or something?
@DaaaahWhoosh - also a little tug here and there can let your folks un-latch from it while it is directed at the planet/base in question. Hop-on, give it a little direction, hop-off and pick off anything that survived.
I mean, not for demonstrating the fate of downvoters, but because it's related to the question.
Does this contradict any rules in the site?
If not, what criteria can justify it?
sorry if this question it's a little stupid but how this worldbuilding page works? People builds his own worlds or they are just questions that you find interesting to talk about? If people builds their own worlds what they do with them, they talk about them in a blog or something?
The Factory Floor
The Factory Floor