If I ask you to pray for me, am I praying to you?

Sort of. Rav Sherira Gaon has a responsa concerning praying to angels where he says we may pray to them as long as it is not a prayer concerning health. That is the one subject Hashem requires direct prayer from us, due to the fact that he prescribes health personally. From this we see that requesting a messanger to take the prayer is actually somewhat considered a prayer to the messanger. Its a tough subject especially being that most of us were raised with a particular idea about this and it seems chazzal were on a different page.

I haven't seen that responsa, but I wouldn't call that prayer. I don't pray to my wife for salt when I ask her to pass it, and I don't pray to the gabbai when I ask him make a Mi Shebeirach.

There are different modes/types of "prayer" -- we don't make forefathers objects of praise as sources of power, or as the ultimate providers of that which we ask for, but (it seems) we can view them as messengers who can ask the ultimate source on our behalf, relying on their merits to earn us what we do not otherwise deserve.

But how do you even speak with the dead? How do you destinguish that from necromancy, and the episode of king Saul consulting the sorceress at Endor to speak with the prophet Samuel? Saul was explicitly disobeying the Lord's own command (which heretofore he actually enforced in the land, which is why the sorceress was afraid of him at first). The answer above will need to address this as well in order for me to accept it.

"Many stories in the talmud and medrash"? Cite them. I know of one story regarding Kalev in masekheth Sotah. You make it sound like this is an open and shut case. It's not. If the stories of dirush ha-methim are so rampant in Hazal then by all means cite them.

@ maimonist - i did. Did you check the three sources i mentioned yet?

@Seligkeitisingott- the procedure is the difference just like trapping animals through physical means is allowed but conjuring spirits to gather them for you is assur, we call that chover chavarim, there is an allowed procedure called prayer and an illegal procedure called doresh al hameisim which is necromancy.

-1. judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/33627/…

I wonder if anyone even bothered to look at any of the sources I pointed out before commenting. Do I really need to quote verbatim so people won't have to bother opening any sfarim whatsoever?

if you pray to anyone other than HaShem yeethborach you are doing it wrong

@user6591 Of course I'm familiar with those sources. My comment stands. It is a mischaracterization to call that "prayer".

@ Fred let me quote tshuvas Binyan Tzion fro Rav Etlenger siman 67 'even being doresh from the dead in the grave is muttar as we find the greatest amoraim doing doing so, as long as one is not doresh from the body of the deceased but rather from his spirit. See also in Yoreh deah siman 179 shach s.k. 15 and s.k. 16. See also Tshuvos Maharam Shikorach chayim siman 293. It seems from all these sources that 'doresh from' and 'tefila to' are the same thing.

@user6591 "'doresh from' and 'tefila to' are the same thing." I don't know why you think that. Doreish el hameisim means trying to get communication from the dead. Prayer is a noun meaning: "A solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship."

@MoriDoweedhYaa3qob I am inclined to agree with you, which is why I find even the idea of asking the deceased to pray for you very suspicious and fraught with potential problems and abuses especially.

@user6591 Can you add your responses about how it is distinguished from necromancy in your answer, and maybe address some of the objections voiced in the comments here? Then I can vote your answer up since I have seen no one else offer a separate answer. Thanks!

@user6591 bring proof from a rambam, you wont because there isnt such a halocho

@ Fred how do you read the rashi in Taanis 16a that I mentioned?

@ moridoweed the Rambam did not weigh in on the machlokes in Taanis 16a. We who don't live in Egypt one thousand years ago however have other halachic sources, such as the shulchan aruch and the Magen Avraham in siman 579 s.k. 11 who did tell us we can ask the dead to request mercy for us.

@ Seligkeitisingott i think i will simply offer another answer quoting the binyan tzion i mention as he directly answers your question and I will not address these comments untill someone offers a good idea other than 'thats not what my rebbi taught me in 1st grade so its not true'. I have quoted chazzal and poskim which people claim to know but obviously haven't read. At least not recently enough to comment.

@user6591 As mentioned by Yishai in the above comments, asking a soul for a favor is not prayer, just like asking a live person for a favor is not prayer. Rashi's point, echoed by the Magein Avraham, is apparently that Jewish souls are in a better position to intercede on one's behalf in heaven. That does not, however, mean that Jewish souls have independent powers to grant wishes. Prayer is not the appropriate word here. (Note: There are opinions that even forbid requesting souls to intercede on one's behalf).

@Fred But isnt this exactly the distinction i made in the answer? In the question posed calev 'prayed' to his ancestors and nobody minded. I pointed out many chazzal where we find this same act and a mishna berurah which in hindsight seems to be taken from the maharil which implies one may not..

@Fred direct his words toward them at all, rather use the place as a zchus. I then diffrentiated to say they are merely messangers and one is not actually praying to them. This is all based on the Maharam Shick. The fact that there is an answer doesn't mean there wasn't a problem to begin with.