Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)

> I think it could potentially improve the moddability significantly.

Groovy can be used to create some really nice DSL's (Domain Specific Languages), for example, it could theoretically be possible to write the following:

When this creature deals damage to an opponent, you draw a card

And actually have Groovy execute that **as code**

Simon André Forsberg

12:09 AM

@Phrancis ^^

Phrancis

@SimonAndréForsberg SORCERY!

3

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis GROOVY!

3

Phrancis

That's like ducky was saying about ANTLR, except, Groovy might not be as complicated?

Marc-Andre

I'm doing my first development on my new rails app, and well every is broken :P Nothing like breaking things to learn !

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis groovy is definitely more feasible than ANTLR. Additionally, Groovy is much more extensible, maintainable and understandable than ANTLR.

I'm not sure yet how extensible, moddable and understandable the implementation of the DSL would be in Groovy, but I would like to look into it more.

Phrancis

12:19 AM

ANTLR looked like a nightmare to get to work (shhh, don't tell mug and ducky)

Simon André Forsberg

in VBA, 8 secs ago, by Simon André Forsberg

in TCG Creation, 9 mins ago, by Phrancis

ANTLR looked like a nightmare to get to work (shhh, don't tell mug and ducky)

sorry :)

Phrancis

in VBA, 45 secs ago, by Phrancis

lol thanks @Simon ;p

skiwi

8:47 AM

hey

@SimonAndréForsberg Do you think it's possible to define a full programming language in that, or is that too much?

(An existing language)

For our uni project we possibly still need to make an AST for a programming language

One thought is using some kind of AST tool for every language, but they are most likely not written in Python, even more likely all written in a different language

Other thought could be using something like ANTLR to define the syntax ourselves

Simon André Forsberg

10:20 AM

@skiwi You can't implement any syntax possible, but if it's similar to how Groovy works already, then maybe but likely not.

For an AST, if you have stuff in Reverse Polish Notation already, then transforming that to an AST is possible

Duga

11:04 AM

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #220: Winning screen

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Zomis added label javafx to issue #220: Winning screen

skiwi

11:47 AM

Was gone for a while

@SimonAndréForsberg I really don't know enough about AST's yet

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi well, according to wikipedia you should be able to use Shunting-yard algorithm to get an AST

Shunting-yard algorithm

In computer science, the shunting-yard algorithm is a method for parsing mathematical expressions specified in infix notation. It can be used to produce output in Reverse Polish notation (RPN) or as an abstract syntax tree (AST). The algorithm was invented by Edsger Dijkstra and named the "shunting yard" algorithm because its operation resembles that of a railroad shunting yard. Dijkstra first described the Shunting Yard Algorithm in the Mathematisch Centrum report MR 34/61. Like the evaluation of RPN, the shunting yard algorithm is stack-based. Infix expressions are the form of mathematical notation...

and the wikipedia page about AST really describes it very well

Abstract syntax tree

In computer science, an abstract syntax tree (AST), or just syntax tree, is a tree representation of the abstract syntactic structure of source code written in a programming language. Each node of the tree denotes a construct occurring in the source code. The syntax is "abstract" in not representing every detail appearing in the real syntax. For instance, grouping parentheses are implicit in the tree structure, and a syntactic construct like an if-condition-then expression may be denoted by means of a single node with three branches. This distinguishes abstract syntax trees from concrete syntax...

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg Heh... okay, so it's just like a Calculator?

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi not too different at least

skiwi

So if I can build a calculator, I can build a programming language

Okay, that's maybe a bit too optimistic

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi depends on the calculator.

skiwi

11:55 AM

Motivation to look at your Groovy code is growing

I'm strugglign to use Mocha in combination with the Sinon library

That probably tells you nothing, and it would also have told me nothing if you asked me yesterday at this time

There's so many possible JS technologies

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi it tells me that there's something called Mocha and a library called Sinon. That's about it though.

Apr 29 at 19:45, by Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi Well, we need to decide on and implement something.

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg I think having a library called Sinon and knowing a person named Simon is confusing

Simon André Forsberg

agreed

at first I read Sinon as Simon

skiwi

Right now the issue is simple, no clue how to solve it though

For some reason when running tests $ is a function, instead of an object, so also $.getJSON is not a function but undefined

Simon André Forsberg

12:11 PM

try $().getJSON

skiwi

Neither works

When running it in browser it just works, but through Mocha testing framework it cannot resolve $.getJSON, it did inject something for $ though

Simon André Forsberg

try printing the value of the $ object/function to see what it is. Or use JSON.stringify($)

and find out where it comes from

then change it to make sure it has the right value

easy, right? :)

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg That stringify might help

I did a normal log already,b ut that's without stringify

Well, JSON is appareantly just {}

Doesn't seem like I can use it in tests or something

That seems okay

but JSON.stringify($) returns undefined

Marc-Andre

Hey everyone!

skiwi

12:27 PM

hey @Marc-Andre

Marc-Andre

hey @skiwi :D

skiwi

Just realizing that I totally didn't realize something

4

bazola

12:45 PM

@Marc-Andre normally when i feel that way, i'm not as far away from working code as i think i am

skiwi

I'm onto something

Marc-Andre

1:21 PM

@bazola And I was not :D ! Soon after I find a solution, but now I have more problems :D !

Phrancis

1:40 PM

Monking

Marc-Andre

hey @Phrancis!

Phrancis

Algorithms make my head spin.

Did not end up writing documentation last night, will make up for it today, since we are now full staff and not so busy :)

Simon André Forsberg

ArchLinux make my head spin.

Phrancis

@Marc-Andre I've spoken French all my life and just now realized how weird this character is: œ

Simon André Forsberg

1:56 PM

reminds me about the Swedish 'ö'

Or, speaking of strange characters, how about some cryllic ones? я ч ф ж й ц щ

Phrancis

Oh, we used the umlaut accent sometimes in French too

Cyrillic looks a lot like Greek to me?

Simon André Forsberg

parts of it may look similar

but it's not Greek

Phrancis

OK

Marc-Andre

@Phrancis I've spoken French all my life and I've never used œ always use oe ;)

Phrancis

I used the word "main-d'œuvre" pretty often and Outlook always auto-corrects oe to œ

Й

Cyrillic alphabets are exceedingly confusing :o

(at least to me ;)

Simon André Forsberg

2:11 PM

@Phrancis it was confusing for me also the first week when I learned it.

Phrancis

I'm actually surprised some of letters look uncannily similar, must be difficult to tell them apart from someone with a sloppy hand writing... У у Ц ц Ч ч Џ џ

Simon André Forsberg

the fun part is that even though some of them may look similar, some of them are pronounced entirely different :)

я и в у may look like R N B Y, but it's actually pronounced as "ya y/i v o"

Phrancis

Oh wow.

Well, I've seen code with identifiers in foreign languages before, but I can hardly imagine how difficult it would be to code like that

public static void main(String[] args) {
    String мойпеременной = "Привет Мир!";
    System.out.println(мойпеременной);
}

Phrancis

2:32 PM

30

A: Do people in non-English-speaking countries code in English?

C#, it really works (Cyrillic): [Flags] public enum Товары { Непонятно = 0, Книги = 1, Тетради = 2, Карандаши = 4, Всё = Книги | Тетради | Карандаши } .. Товары карандаши = Товары.Карандаши; There is fun (weird) in that Visual Studio allows it and someone is writing ...

skiwi

Umlauts in French? wtf

Phrancis

They're pretty unfrequent

They are mostly used for Noël / Noëlle, which are both given name, and in the case of the masculine Noël, also the word for Christmas (go figure)

Marc-Andre

3:00 PM

@Phrancis you could like this : aidenet.eu/grammaire01d.htm

Phrancis

Yikes, didn't realize there were that many!

Duga

3:22 PM

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Zomis pushed commit 57477b3e to js-load: added toString of ServerQueryMessage

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Zomis pushed commit cb62890a to js-load: handling WebsocketNotConnected error, should fix #191

[Zomis/Server] Zomis pushed commit dab69b54 to master: fixed bug with Battleship moves only being reported if it was a hit

Duga

3:48 PM

[Zomis/Battleship] Zomis opened issue #1: Show who's turn it is

> There's currently no indication whether or not it is your turn when playing

[Zomis/Battleship] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #1: Show who's turn it is

Phrancis

@Duga @Simon do you think the libGDX HTML5 version will work OK now then?

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis as soon as the server(s) are updated, yes.

either @bazola will have to pull the changes and do mvn package or I'll have to do mvn package and upload a new Server jar file

Duga

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #1: Remove clients when they disconnect

> When a client disconnects, it is still being shown as online

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label bug to issue #1: Remove clients when they disconnect

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #2: Support alternative message formats

> Make the message sending between clients and server more flexible so that clients can choose what format they would like

- [ ] JSON
- [ ] Minimal byte serialization
- [ ] space-separated string array (already implemented, but not in a flexible way)

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #2: Support alternative message formats

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #3: Support AIs

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #3: Support AIs

> The Server should have a collection of AIs that are always online and can be played at any time.

Perhaps also a possibility for clients to connect as AIs (to mark that they are allowed to be in multiple games at once, and that they are always available), in case someone wants to make a bot that supports the protocol

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #4: Invites shows incorrect username

> When being invited by someone, it looks like you invited yourself.

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label bug to issue #4: Invites shows incorrect username

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #5: Battleship improvements

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #5: Battleship improvements

> - Show username in addition to player index when game is over
- Add check that position has not already been played, to prevent the game from being stuck in an infinite loop. If a player clicks on a position that already has been played, disqualify player.

[Zomis/Server] Zomis added label enhancement to issue #6: Modularity

[Zomis/Server] Zomis opened issue #6: Modularity

> Make it possible to construct a server dynamically, by extracting a core module, and make it possible to add different game implementations to that module.

Simon André Forsberg

The Cardshifter server is really a lot cleaner than this piece of s*** server.

Duga

4:13 PM

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build #942 for commit cb62890a on branch js-load passed

Phrancis

5:10 PM

@SimonAndréForsberg I'm guessing you couldn't just re-use the same server, eh?

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis both yes and no

Phrancis

5:28 PM

Makes sense, in a Simon kinda of way ;)

Duga

6:15 PM

@skiwi, look into Simon's Battleship repository to check out the Groovy code! And @Simon, fix that damn websocket bug!

skiwi

@Duga I'll look into it once @SimonAndréForsberg fixes that bug!

Phrancis

3 hours ago, by Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Zomis pushed commit cb62890a to js-load: handling WebsocketNotConnected error, should fix #191

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi already fixed

skiwi

6:30 PM

@SimonAndréForsberg @Duga disagrees :)

skiwi

7:25 PM

@SimonAndréForsberg Any recommendations on where to start with your code?

And isn't a repository called Server oddly unspecific?

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi BattleshipGUI.groovy

@skiwi okay, it could have been called "GameServer" perhaps.

skiwi

Isn't it more like BS-Server?

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi not when it is also intended to support Ultimate TTT at the same time.

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg Oh ok

I may be tired, but I don't see the advantage of Groovy here

Simon André Forsberg

it's meant to be a flexible solution to many turn-based multiplayer games

skiwi

7:32 PM

Scanned through quickly though

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi oh, you're not even aware of half of it yet!

skiwi

It looks exactly like Java, but the different syntax (missing semicolons etc.) make it hard to read

That's my first impression right now

Simon André Forsberg

for a start, it's a much more concise version of Java

you can add semicolons, if you want to

skiwi

	private boolean canPlaceAtBoard(int x, int y) {
		for (int yy = y; yy < y + height; yy++) {
			for (int xx = x; xx < x + width; xx++) {
				if (!board.inRange(xx, yy)) {
					println "Board: $xx $yy is not in range"
					return false
				}
				if (board.ships[yy][xx]) {
					println "Board: $xx $yy contains a ship: ${board.ships[yy][xx]}"
					return false
				}
			}
		}
		return true
	}

The only advantage there is that you can print variables inline?

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi it can do more than that, I just haven't used all the Groovy functionality yet.

but essentially, all programming languages can do the same things, you know that right? The question is just how it does them.

skiwi

7:35 PM

I just don't see what's so special about it right now

Haven't read the link about DSLs yet though

It also may have partly to do with that you're interacting with the Swing API?

Simon André Forsberg

I don't get it @skiwi, a little while ago you complained about the verbosity about Java and saying that you wanted to create a "perfect" programming language, but you seem totally unimpressed by Groovy.

@skiwi the SwingBuilder features in Groovy are a lot better than if it would have been done through Java code.

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg True, but somehow Groovy doesn't enlight me right now

One concern about your code, looking at it briefly; shouldn't the board be responsible for placing ships, rather than the ships themselves?

Does running Groovy on top of Java not lead to additional issues when interacting with standard libraries?

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi As I said, I haven't cleaned it up yet. I am aware of that.

@skiwi No issues at all. Java libraries work like a charm so far.

skiwi

7:52 PM

I may also be more aggressive against "yet another library/framework/language" today

One thing I am actually wondering @Simon is why you need to code "so much" to achieve a Battleship game

Such a question is perhaps closer to me thinking about 'perfect" languages

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi a lot of the code in this case is because of the socket connection. and some of it is also because of it being a GUI

I really don't think it is "so much" though.

How many lines of code would you expect for a Battleship game?

skiwi

I'm interested in solving it in a smaller way, not claiming it's possible though

The thing is that I can explain Battleship to you quite easily, and even add some visualization

You do need to call updates manually now, it seems?

Simon André Forsberg

what updates?

skiwi

Model <-> GUI

Simon André Forsberg

again, what updates? when I click a button? when an enemy makes a move?

skiwi

8:03 PM

It would seem "better" if you could only care about the model, and the language/framework would take care of updating the gui, given that you gave some instructions

@SimonAndréForsberg When a ship gets placed on the board for example

Simon André Forsberg

Groovy does take it one step closer than Java does it. Take a look at the code for entering my player name

these three lines do magic: github.com/Zomis/Battleship/blob/master/src/main/java/net/zomis/…

skiwi

def scan = new Scanner(System.in);
print "Enter your name: "
def name = scan.nextLine()

Simon André Forsberg

no no no

not that old piece of shit

skiwi

lol

Simon André Forsberg

that's an obsolete console implementation

skiwi

8:05 PM

Those bindings seem interesting

Simon André Forsberg

they are

I have not tested them completely so I don't know their full power. but even that little part there is really useful

skiwi

I'm interested in creating Battleship on a web-server stack now

But I need to first find something I'm happy with

In principle React is good, and a REST API too

But for our university project it's creating headaches

What's the technology you used where you worked?

For the university project it's probably too late, but I'm trying to make something solid myself

Simon André Forsberg

@skiwi bah, you don't want to know...

skiwi

@SimonAndréForsberg I actually do...

Simon André Forsberg

trust me, you don't.

really. it is that bad.

skiwi

8:17 PM

Can't be giving more trouble than the problems I've been experiencing the past 2 days

Simon André Forsberg

for webdevelopment? this:

One ~~word~~ tag: php

skiwi

but also client-side technologies... right?

Not html embedded in php, right? right?

Simon André Forsberg

client-side: pure hand-written JS.

when I worked in Gothenburg for a short while, they used npm and some grunt scripts. but it still involved some PHP, and a lot of pure hand-written JS.

skiwi

Oh okay, I thought you had a proper stack there

Right now my three pain points are 1) Working test tools, 2) Deploying on subdirectories (opposite to subdomains) and 3) Deploying on production

They all are very non-trivial tasks, where you don't really expect them to be

Simon André Forsberg

pfffft... I don't think they could even spell "proper stack". Maybe the ones in Gothenburg could, but the others? Heck, they barely even used git

skiwi

8:23 PM

It's really frustrating if no technology "just works" and if tutorials are completely useless

Though I can imagine (as I've done in the past as well) that PHP + JS is not a very good solution either

Better translation: hell.

TTGTB now

My only hopes on getting unit testing to work is a Github issue ticket :|

Phrancis

8:38 PM

Night @skiwi

PHP... ouch

I can't believe at some point I wanted to learn PHP. Good thing everyone on CR talked me out of it ;)

Simon André Forsberg

10:12 PM

@Phrancis We're always happy to help :)

How's the documentation going?

Phrancis

TTQW

@Phrancis you're going to need this when you get home: pastebin.com/YJ7dpM3X

@SimonAndréForsberg Today's been stupid busy at work so I haven't even had time to think about that. Last couple of days have been rough for me... But I plan on working on it tonight

But, I've actually managed to find myself a little programming task for work, as you can see above

(doesn't do much now other than display the values ATM, but planning on doing some datetime calculations and input validation)

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis absolutely no rush, was just wondering what the status was. I myself will probably not do any Cardshifter work within the coming weeks, I think.

@Phrancis that's nice. Learning how to write handy JavaScript like that is a very good skill to have!

Only one problem with it though: document.getElementById("input");

You should use document.getElementsByTagName("input") for that.

Phrancis

Oh, didn't even know that existed

TTGH, I'll catch you in a little bit

Phrancis

10:57 PM

And back

@SimonAndréForsberg What is the difference? I noticed document.getElementById appears to put stuff in an array

(which I would prefer it did not, rather just store the value in a regular variable)

Marc-Andre

Mozilla has a good documentation @Phrancis if you want more info

And finally found was was wrong with my code :D

Phrancis

True. I was working on an example from W3Schools, guess that explains it

Marc-Andre

11:10 PM

Yeah w3schools is not that great. Not that bad, just not the best option out there

Phrancis

It's hit & miss with W3S, I think their HTML, CSS and JS tutorials are good. The other stuff... eh

W3S is also where I started learning SQL, they have an interactive DB you can query which is pretty cool.

Marc-Andre

I would prefer working with the documentation at : developer.mozilla.org

Phrancis

Is Mozilla the party that maintains/created JS?

Marc-Andre

Mozilla -> Firefox

So yeah they do implement a JS interpreter for the browser

I think they know their stuff

Phrancis

11:26 PM

Evidently

Marc-Andre

So how things going at work ?

Phrancis

Meh, pretty sucky right now

The air conditioning season has picked up now, and we're very busy because our many HVAC clients are very busy. It's unfortunate that I'm the most senior person in our HVAC insurance/warranty team, because I have to do a lot of the heavy lifting as a consequence.

How are things going for you? :)

@Marc-Andre Do I need to fire up Tomcat to be able to run JS code in STS?

Marc-Andre

@Phrancis Good the project I'm working is leaving the stress part so I can at least take a breath at work

@Phrancis Well your JS should be executed in the browser, if the page is served by the tomcat then you need it. Maybe you could just run it inside sts but not sure

Duga

11:45 PM

rolfl vs. 200_success: 83 diff. Year: +788. Quarter: +631. Month: +252. Week: +276. Day: +70.

Loki Astari vs. Simon André Forsberg: 3745 diff. Year: -2021. Quarter: -722. Month: -339. Week: -29. Day: -89.

Transcript for

Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)