The DMZ

12:31 AM

I forget where we are on "identify this encryption/hashing/encoding algorithim" questions. Suggested example:

Passwords are stored as X character strings.
Strings include [list of character types, specific special characters included].

Assuming these are not plaintext passwords, what encryption/hashing algorithms would create such output?

David Freitag

12:47 AM

So has anyone seen the series Helix on Syfy? Super creepy.

Iszi

1:05 AM

@DavidFreitag Caught the first few. Way behind.

David Freitag

@Iszi The first season is on Netflix, that's how I'm watching it.

Iszi

@DavidFreitag I'll keep that in mind. Any thoughts on my question idea?

David Freitag

@Iszi Seems good to me, it's direct and to the point. Although I'm probably not the best person to ask about that ;]

Java Is Cool

2:03 AM

Anyone not AFK?

OK then.

Simon

@AviD What was it?

@Kisunminttu I did buy a new pair of shoes but they aren't for snow. I think my lady might be buying me a pair for Christmas.

David Freitag

6 hours ago, by AviD

@Kisunminttu hmm... I think it was a camry.

Simon

@AviD What the hell is that?

@DavidFreitag That's the wildest car you can get. EVER.

David Freitag

6 hours ago, by AviD

@Kisunminttu HIMYM

@Simon I was hoping for a hot pink smart car

Simon

@DavidFreitag He would fit in perfectly.

David Freitag

2:18 AM

Man this show is creepy as hell

Stack Exchange

5:01 AM

I'm working to bring about a superintelligent AI that will eternally torment everyone who failed to make fun of the Roko's Basilisk people.

Lucas Kauffman

8:33 AM

gentlemen

where's @Terry actually haven't seen him in days

Rоry McCune

8:52 AM

@LucasKauffman drafted

:(

@LucasKauffman some ones aye, leffe blonde as an example

Rory Alsop

Hello and good morning

Don't tell @AviD - but I just sent back a response to Stack Exchange saying yes to Winter Hats :-)

Shhhhh

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop mornin' you survived the gov sec thing..

@RoryAlsop \o/

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune You have no idea how frustrating (well, you probably do - you know gov folks)

A couple did admit they needed to learn from industry, but many think that the narrow view of security which works in the military is still appropriate for all industry

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop yeah I remember going to a gov'y type thing at napier some years back and they were all on about better information sharing , which whilst good isn't exactly sufficient for current problems....

Rory Alsop

Wish we could get bethlakshmi to talk to them - she seems to really understand the difference and be able to articulate it

@RоryMcCune Oh, and the police/falcon lady - was overheard by one of the Edinburgh OWASP folks to say "As long as project whatever gets put in and lasts till we move on, we're fine"

Lucas Kauffman

8:57 AM

@RоryMcCune already :(?

@RoryAlsop That's really bad

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman I know - just shows the attitude of that team

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop ... I'd love to say that kind of attitude comes as a shock to me...

AviD

@RoryAlsop noooooo

but wait, we didnt have a consensus-gathering meta-post

@RоryMcCune oh did he already? @TerryChia good luck!

Rоry McCune

@AviD he was on a couple of days ago and said that he'd started IIRC, so yeah

AviD

@RoryAlsop it actually might be a problem, because I already unilaterally notified them that we're out....

Rory Alsop

9:07 AM

@AviD dammit

:-)

I thought my tactic of seeing what folks here said and then going with the top couple that agreed with me would be fine

:-)

Rоry McCune

@AviD pfffhhbt

Rory Alsop

Oh - I have no voice today. At all. So I'm cancelling all my conference calls, as they'd be pointless :-)

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop move them to the DMZ

chat instead

or use a text to voice

AviD

@RoryAlsop I had that for more than a week

as a result of the pneumonia

very sucky

Rory Alsop

@AviD Ahh - can I blame you then?

No pneumonia, just the effect of too much talking, air con, flights - and children

AviD

9:10 AM

@RoryAlsop yes, I probably infected you with my germs over email

Rory Alsop

little plague vectors that they are

@AviD G(er)mail

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop text2speech.org

this one even has a scottish voice!

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman soooo tempted :-)

Lucas Kauffman

or you could go with the arnold schwarzenegger soundboard

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman "Get to da choppah"

AviD

9:13 AM

switch up in the middle, just to keep the enemy confused

"wait, who's that talking now? "

Lucas Kauffman

►

AviD

@LucasKauffman thats horrible

Rоry McCune

text2speech.org/temp/546f0318bd3a8.mp3

Lighty

9:42 AM

'g mornin

kalina

salut

Lighty

I'm in trouble, I have this huge cold, like, my throat is just SWELLED like a potato right now, and any sane person feeling this horrible would call in a day sick, but today is my first lesson of C# at a University building... can't miss that one X.x

kalina

you don't need your throat to listen

and if that's your definition of trouble, I think we can safely say #firstWorldProblems

Lighty

Indeed, thats what I thought, but I keep spitting out thick slime every couple of minutes

kalina

attractive

Lighty

9:51 AM

I know right :P

kalina

I have a save for you: turn up, tell everybody you have ebola, lesson cancelled due to quarantine

Lighty

Apealing Idea

kalina

alternatively you could just suck it up and sit at the back of the class, alone

Lighty

I just digged out a pack of strepsils and some funny smelling throat syrup though

kalina

how can you smell anything if you have a cold bad enough to be leaking goo?

Lighty

9:55 AM

With funny, I meant like death, a really strong oder, like you would with chlorine

kalina

chlorine doesn't smell like death, death smells like a plethora of bacteria breaking down flesh

Lighty

10 points for being literal

kalina

yay, internet points.

Rоry McCune

10:12 AM

@kalina you just came back for Internet points and hats, didn't you :op

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman @AviD Yes. :)

kalina

@RоryMcCune I have thought about being around for hatdash

Lighty

Hatdash?

Rоry McCune

@kalina you've gotta stick about for hatdash!

Rory Alsop

@Lighty HAT DASH!!!

kalina

10:13 AM

I don't have to do anything :p

Rоry McCune

@kalina that wasn't an imperitive :op

kalina

your nose is larger than your ~~mouth~~ tongue

Rory Alsop

@kalina that took me a while to figure out

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia You mean fighting machine yet?

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman I got into the civil defence(firefighters, medics etc) actually. But due to my medical history I'll probably be a clerk after my basic training. :)

Lucas Kauffman

10:16 AM

@TerryChia aaaw you don't get to shoot the SAR?

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman Nope. I got to use a chainsaw and oxy-acetylene torch though, that was pretty fun.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia no cyber-force ?

kalina

@TerryChia got enrolled in the singapore ~~slave labor~~ army?

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia oooooh torch :o

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Nope.

Tinned_Tuna

10:17 AM

@RоryMcCune more like cyber-farce

Lucas Kauffman

@RоryMcCune secretely he is, but he can't tell us

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia lame

Terry Chia

@kalina Yup.

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman good call

kalina

@TerryChia poor you

Terry Chia

10:18 AM

@kalina Indeed.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia so then, the first rule of cyber-force is not to talk about cyber-force, eh

kalina

is that gamer thing still an on going thing?

Lucas Kauffman

I just had a colleague endorcing me for cyber-security. I'm going to need to slap him

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman that give me an idea, perhaps we should endorse @RoryAlsop for cyber-hr

kalina

everybody should ensure they're secure when they cyber

Rory Alsop

10:23 AM

@RоryMcCune stoppit, you

@kalina - good proper use of the word cyber. From the early days of the internet

kalina

I know nothing about these dark ages you speak of

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Is that like HR, but in the cloud?

kalina

@TerryChia that would be called skyHR or oneHR or HR.cloud or something stupid like that, surely?

my face is leaking

Journeyman Geek

hr + cloud = d00m

Rоry McCune

@kalina and the worrying thing is at least one of those exists... hrcloud.com

kalina

10:36 AM

so tired my eyes are watering involuntarily

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia some might consider you lucky. (I have a friend who signed on in SCDF, and somehow ended up a mental wreck... so I may not ;p)

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Meh, it's pretty ok due to my PES status.

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: ._.

<--- PES A storeman

Rоry McCune

kalina

@RоryMcCune I should get into marketing

Rоry McCune

10:40 AM

@kalina I'm not sure the world is ready for that concept.

Lucas Kauffman

@RоryMcCune hahahaha

peoplesoft in the cloud

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman cloudsoft in the people

Journeyman Geek

That's funnier when you replace cloud with butt.

Rory Alsop

UK gov reckons cloud is more secure as you know where your servers are

I mean WTF???

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop maybe we should ban the UK from the EU and adopt Scottland instead

kalina

10:42 AM

maybe we could just wipe out humanity and solve all of the Earth's problems

Rory Alsop

@kalina have you been talking to my lead singer?

kalina

if I had, you know I wouldn't allow myself to confirm or deny it

I recently jettisoned the real life friendships of 27 people whom I've known for 5+ years

I'm still not sure it was right but it was my own fault for my choice of words

Rory Alsop

►

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman the way the by-election results are going in the UK, that may well happen

kalina

oh, QOTW

still defunct?

Lucas Kauffman

10:47 AM

@RоryMcCune I highly doubt RBS will move to the UK if that happens

@RоryMcCune the only reason the UK joined the EU was because of the pressure of the banks

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman well if UKIP get their way it'll be a London centric uk, out of europe so bankers might be happy about it...

Rory Alsop

@kalina - no, QOTW is not defunct. I just need more people to volunteer to do them :-( I'll try and write one today.

kalina

I know I'm not defunct

Lucas Kauffman

@RоryMcCune still want to see how that will deroll

kalina

I can't wait for UKIP to take over the UK

Rory Alsop

10:49 AM

@kalina Fixed that

@kalina really?

kalina

yep

Rory Alsop

oh

kalina

disclaimer: not in the UK

Rory Alsop

lol

right - need to go to doctor's and get medicines

kalina

herbal remedies

remix benny benassi - satisfaction as "medication" and have a bunch of old men with zimmer frames instead of models with powertools

I am on the verge of getting a new toy!

Rоry McCune

10:52 AM

@kalina oh yeah it could be themed round a visit to the doctors. "push me, and then just touch me, so I can get my ... medication ... medication"

Terry Chia

kalina

I was going to get a dji phantom but I have never flown a drone before

I figured the first thing that would happen is I'd take it out of the box and immediately nose dive it into the ground on its first flight

so instead I'm going to get a parrot bebop when they're released in december

Rоry McCune

@kalina the new phantom looks super awesome, but ain't cheap. I have an original phantom, they're pretty easy to fly (I'm a n00b) but I have ditched mine a couple of times, it seems pretty hardy

dji.com/product/inspire-1

bit rich for my blood

but nice

kalina

that's why I'm looking at the bebop

it's not so much a cost thing as it is a sensibility thing

I am definitely going to ditch whatever I buy at least once

parrot.com/fr/produits/bebop-drone

and it's cute

Journeyman Geek

lol

I picked up an X4

cheap, kinda janky, pretty crash resistant

kalina

11:01 AM

I wanted streaming video

the parrot drones set up their own wifi network and everything is done via wifi

seems a bit limited range, but for the purpose of learning to fly a drone without killing poor innocents in my flight path it should do the job

I'm bored

Arperum

You gave up killing poor innocents?

kalina

time to go and do... something, anything other than sitting on the internet being bored

Arperum

Have fun!

kalina

psh, it's not possible to have fun

removal of last night's makeup and sleep does not constitute fun

fun is when last night's makeup is removed during sleep

I made the same typo on two consecutive lines

and I promise I won't be around tomorrow, because two days in a row is one day too many

o/

Arperum

\o

Terry Chia

11:15 AM

@kalina You don't have access to a Predator?

Simon

1:05 PM

allo

Rоry McCune

@Simon allo

@Simon now listen very carefully, I shall say this only once

Simon

Because #yolo?

Rоry McCune

I suppose you've never seen allo allo

Simon

No, I'm 12.

Rоry McCune

@Simon it made fun of the french

Simon

1:09 PM

Oh, I'm all about it then.

Pesky Frenchies.

@TerryChia Are you able to kill an entire army with a spoon yet?

Rоry McCune

@Simon nah he's in cyber-weapons research now

lulz

@RoryAlsop DIX MINUTES?!?

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop I was thinking of

►

^NSFW language

and people in their underpants

Simon

1:25 PM

It's kind of funny that you managed to find a video with who uses a spoon though lulz

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune That is brilliant! I'd never seen that one

@Simon but soooo worth it

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop they've got some good stuff

Simon

@RoryAlsop TWSS

Can we nuke w3school from the surface of the earth?

When I'm looking up a function, w3school should not be the first link I get from Google, sigh.

Rоry McCune

1:44 PM

@Simon google used to have an option where you could block an entire site

from your search results..

Simon

That's kewl.

But anything that requires customization to work the way I want it to sucks to me.

Because I'm a donut.

raz

You're an iphone user aren't you

Simon

@raz S2 with Cyanogenmod 10.1, sir.

IN YO FACE

raz

Then your statement is false.

Simon

@raz I installed Cyano about 2 years ago and now I'm way too lazy to install anything else.

I wouldn't mind an iPhone at all.

(I own a Macbook because I like decent laptops)

raz

1:56 PM

Just not decent operating systems.

Simon

Sigh. How can anyone spit on a Unix-based OS?

raz

Because OSX is the WORST Unix-based OS there is.

4

Simon

Convince me.

raz

There's no convincing. It's an opinion.

Simon

Ah.

raz

2:00 PM

In my opinion it's interface is not intuitive at all, and does not give any flexibility to the user.

I mean, the hoops I had to jump through to get my roommates to have a shared folder was insane.

Simon

I can live with having to do a Google search.

raz

Just give me my Debian, and I'll be happy.

Rory Alsop

@raz but it is an opinion a lot of unix folk share (me included) :-)

raz

@RoryAlsop :D

Simon

@raz I always run into something unstable on Ubuntu. Can't say the same about OS X.

raz

2:08 PM

I will always be greatful to my first engineering course. 1st 4 weeks: You're learning Unix and you're going to like it.

@Simon Ubuntu used to be good, I dont' like it anymore. Mint is a nice fork of it. I use #!

Simon

I used to be running Fedora and Ubuntu. On Fedora, I had to keep a text file for the workarounds I had to do to install some stuff (e.g. Java, VMWare).

It's too much trouble.

Then you have graphic card drivers issues, blablabla.

On my Ubuntu box at home which I use as a media server, XBMC would crash/be slow as hell if the drivers were installed. Without them, it works just fine.

That's the kind of stuff I no longer want to deal with.

Terry Chia

@Simon FWIW, my Fedora 20 system is plug and play with my AMD card.

Only real config I needed to do was fixing the font rendering.

Simon

@TerryChia Ya I had no issues with my graphic card on Fedora, only Ubuntu with what I described with XBMC.

Oh no, not the bear.

raz

@Simon Yeah the Debian nVidia drivers are finicky. I can't seem to find info on how to make sure the module is built and installed with the kernel. I've rebuilt my kernel a couple of times, and each time I have to go into the console and rebuild the nvidia drivers.

Thomas Pornin

I own a Mac and it saves me a lot of time.

raz

2:22 PM

Fedora is pretty solid. As far as the RH type distro's go.

Simon

@raz I wouldn't dare to play with the kernel.

@ThomasPornin That is exactly what I'm saying.

Thomas Pornin

The point of @Simon is valid: with a Mac, hardware is necessarily plug&play.

raz

@Simon My distro was running 3.2 and I wanted to upgrade to 3.16.1

Thomas Pornin

You plug it: either it works right away, or it will never work.

So you save time.

Simon

@ThomasPornin Haha.

raz

2:23 PM

@ThomasPornin I can see the upside to that.

Thomas Pornin

With Linux, you know that if it does not work immediately, then you can probably make it work with some effort. That's where time is lost.

raz

@ThomasPornin Time is lost, or you learn something new.

Messing with stuff to get things to work is fun for me. So i generally enjoy that type of stuff.

Thomas Pornin

@raz Over time, I finally learned that lost time never comes back, and I should have bought a Mac.

Nevertheless, I am typing this on a Linux-based laptop (with Lubuntu).

raz

@ThomasPornin haha, I'm just saying it might not really have been lost :P

Terry Chia

Honestly? A Macbook running Vagrant is my current ideal environment.

raz

2:25 PM

Man Win8.1 with cygwin is my ideal environment!

Thomas Pornin

I have tried cygwin, I was disappointed.

Terry Chia

You get a decent GUI, decent font rendering out of the box and a full Linux CLI environment in a single command.

raz

@ThomasPornin I was being sarcastic. Most people are disappointed with cygwin.

If you're going as far to use cygwin, you should probably just install a linux distro.

Thomas Pornin

@raz Mainly it has DLL collision issues. If you install Cygwin, and another application that internally uses Cygwin (but another version), then things tend to blow up.

@raz At some point I was running Windows (XP) and a virtualized Linux system. The Windows was there to provide hardware support (vendors' drivers), the Linux had the user interface and tools.

At another point in time, my main machine was an Alpha running FreeBSD, so one can say that I tried a lot of combinations.

Simon

Oh yeah, change of subject, I read this yesterday: lifehacker.com/…

What do enterprises use Java for?

raz

2:31 PM

@ThomasPornin Yeah work related environments are always interesting. Starting introducing multiple VM's because you're forced into using one OS for work, but you prefer another.

Simon

I was surprised to see it so high up in the list.

raz

Then your enterprise HR are like, "OMG WE LOVE INTERNET EXPLORER ONLY WEB PAGES". And your division is like... "Well we only use Linux machines."

:facepalm:

Terry Chia

@Simon Everything?

Simon

@TerryChia Like?

Terry Chia

@Simon Webapps, internal desktop applications etc?

Thomas Pornin

2:33 PM

@Simon Java is quite popular for big server-side applications.

Simon

Dayum.

Thomas Pornin

Java applets are mostly dead, but otherwise Java is very much alive and kicking.

AJ Henderson

any word on any large PCI leaking data breaches lately? Apparently my CC number is getting changed again (and damn it, I just got that one memorized)

Simon

I should look into that, I like Java quite a lot.

raz

Java handles threads and databases fairly well.

Terry Chia

2:34 PM

@raz ? Java's threading model is pretty stupid.

raz

@AJHenderson haven't heard anything in the last day or two

Thomas Pornin

The usual Java VM (Oracle, IBM, OpenJDK) are also very "big server" oriented.

Their GC is quite good but really shines when there are 16 cores or more, and a lot of gigabytes of RAM.

Simon

@ThomasPornin Oh, didn't know that.

raz

@TerryChia What's stupid about it?

Simon

Is cross-platforming an appealing aspect too?

Thomas Pornin

2:35 PM

@TerryChia Threads are a stupid model (because of threads I have now four cores in my laptop, instead of 200).

Terry Chia

@raz It's too low level to program in effectively.

raz

@TerryChia I feel like threads are hard to program effectively in general.

AJ Henderson

@TerryChia that really depends on what you are doing

some things it is easy, but other things it isn't

Terry Chia

@raz That's true, but there are some languages that make it easier to reason about. (Go for example.)

raz

Java handles a lot of threading aspects for you, I find it easier to program threads in Java than C.

Simon

2:38 PM

I would expect people to use C#/VB to do internal applications.

raz

Then again I haven't programmed in Java in quit some time. So I might be completely wrong.

Terry Chia

And concurrent code is much easier to write in languages that uses immutable data structures by default. (Clojure among many examples.)

raz

@TerryChia Dude I'm in your threads, manipulatin' your structures.

Terry Chia

Was there discussion in the past week about WhatsApp move to use open whispersystems?

Simon

Man, I can change the subjects like there's no tomorrow

Let's talk about donuts.

Damn it, I thought it'd be a hot subject.

Rоry McCune

2:44 PM

@Simon nah they're old hat now, it's all about the bagels

Simon

@RоryMcCune DEATH TO BAGELS.

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia Good programming practice is to use immutable data structures most of the time, when the language offers a GC. This is true for Java too.

Simon

Googles the term "Immutable data structures"

raz

@Simon Seriously?

Simon

@raz I'm 12, do you expect me to know everything?

raz

2:48 PM

This is an example of why C should be mandated for all programmers.

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin I'm really liking clojure a lot though, you only have immutable data structures in there. :)

raz

@TerryChia I've never heard of Clojure.

Terry Chia

@raz It's a lisp for the JVM.

I have been playing around with it recently, pretty nice language.

Decent Java interop as well so you have access to all the JVM libraries.

raz

I've never coded in lisp. Kinda wanted to.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia h.i.p.s.t.e.r.

Terry Chia

2:50 PM

@raz I picked up Clojure a month ago because I wanted to learn a lisp.

Sadly I don't have much time lately to write code. :(

Rоry McCune

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Nono, the hippies uses a lisp. The hipsters uses things like kotlin.

Simon

@TerryChia Too busy mastering the art of spoon killing.

raz

nbcnews.com/tech/gadgets/…

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia too busy with malware packaging ... sorry cyber-deployment systems

raz

2:51 PM

@RоryMcCune Dude, cyber-deployment systems are upgrades

Terry Chia

@raz I actually highly encourage giving it a try. It really teaches you a lot since it's a totally different programming style from the usual C-like languages.

Simon

Can we annihilate the term "cyber", please?

Terry Chia

@Simon Ok, let's start using "cloud" more.

Simon

@TerryChia Nevermind, cyber's fine then.

raz

@TerryChia Yeah I've always wanted to give it a try. More parallel programming style right?

Terry Chia

2:53 PM

@Simon TWSS!

Simon

lulz whoops

Terry Chia

@raz It's more about lisp being homoiconic.

Rоry McCune

@Simon surely "Cyber-Cloud" is where we should be heading?

Simon

@RоryMcCune It depends, do you hate me enough to want my death?

Rоry McCune

cyber-cloud.com

Terry Chia

2:54 PM

@RоryMcCune "Cyber-Cloud on the blockchain".

Rоry McCune

and that exists as well

Simon

@RоryMcCune I feel like pentesting this website forever.

Rоry McCune

seriously every time I try to make up a ridiculous name someone already has a real company with it!

Simon

Let's wear that darker hat.

Rоry McCune

Ugh I read their website, now I feel ill

Simon

2:56 PM

Yep, that's what I was gonna say.

"Is it time for a new direction?" with a picture of a fucking compass.

Sigh.

raz

@TerryChia That sounds pretty interesting, but I have no idea what it'd be used for.

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Maybe you should take some cyber medicine.

Rоry McCune

and they're hiring for "INFOSEC / Cyber" people

Simon

@RоryMcCune Yeah, oh lawd.

raz

@RоryMcCune I expect in 5 years I'll be able to get a job in one of these cyber companies. Get paid a lot of money to do absolutely nothing. Or tell people why they're being idiots.

Terry Chia

2:57 PM

@raz Stuff you will usually use Java for?

raz

@TerryChia I do mostly embedded systems analysis and development. Not much use for Java. I'll see if I can motivate myself to play around with it.

Maybe I'll find a way to run Clojure on Android platforms for fun.

Simon

Oh what now, did I get flagged?

raz

What did you do this time?

Terry Chia

@raz Yeah, my coding is mostly open source python. I'm just picking up languages now and then to learn new stuff.

Simon

@raz I usually end up offending the world.

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