The DMZ

12:01 AM

@TildalWave To the gulag in Siberia, where it will pay for what it has done.

12:15 AM

@Xander heh this reminds me of the struggle to protect the seeds bank from being eaten in Saint Petersburg (then Leningrad) during the German invasion ... it was in a sense "a cache" they just disagreed what for

well when I say it reminds me of ... I wasn't there, I just read about it :P

Xander

@TildalWave Yes, though that event had perhaps a touch more gravity than the Great SE Cache Flush of 2014. :-)

TildalWave

hehehe true

Xander

Seeing as there was literal human death involved in protecting those seeds.

TildalWave

> Twelve of these scientists died of starvation while protecting the Institute's edible collection of tubers and seeds.

Pavlovsk Experimental Station

Pavlovsk Experimental Station is an agricultural experiment station and gene bank that is part of the Institute of Plant Industry and situated in Pavlovsk near St. Petersburg, Russia. == History == It was started in 1926 by agricultural scientist Nikolai Vavilov and contains an extensive collection of more than 5,000 varieties of fruits and berries. The Pavlovsk station's collection contains more than 100 varieties each of gooseberries, raspberries, and cherries. It also contains more than 1,000 varieties of strawberries. More than 90% of the collection is found in no other research collection...

I'm sure SE has some vending machine with snacks or something like it so they won't starve to death.

Xander

@TildalWave Uh, yes.

TildalWave

12:25 AM

unless the kitchen had to flush cache too then they're in trouble

Terry Chia

@tylerl Do you have Google Inbox invites? ;)

tylerl

1:32 AM

@TerryChia yup. what's your email?

Terry Chia

1:53 AM

@tylerl terrycwk1994@gmail.com, thanks!

tylerl

2:11 AM

@TerryChia I'll send it when I get back to my work computer.

Terry Chia

@tylerl Thanks! :)

I envy you Googlers with your early access to fun stuff.

tylerl

sent, just realized I had my phone on me.

Terry Chia

@tylerl Cheers!

tylerl

3:02 AM

@TerryChia meh. Inbox is interesting, but I don't use it as my primary email client.

Terry Chia

@tylerl Initial thoughts on it is that it doesn't fit my workflow, I don't archive mail, I just leave it all in the inbox and use search to navigate.

I like the design though.

tylerl

@TerryChia The design and flow is nifty. My "normal" gmail app also uses the new Lollipop layout, but this one really takes to heart the spirit of the design guidelines, with the transitions and stuff.

so while both email programs "look" very similar, the inbox app behaves like it was better designed.

OH, just noticed in the star panel that the RTL thing reverses the byline too.

tylerl

3:54 AM

@RoryAlsop Here's a script to output this (or any) Unicode character. That way you don't have to save a copy of a non-printing character.

 perl -e 'binmode(STDOUT,":utf8"); print " \N{U+202E} \n"'

TildalWave

4:30 AM

I thought you might wanna see this (if you're on mobile)

tylerl

4:49 AM

I can finally sync my work security key on my keychain with all my personal Google accounts. So no looking up Authenticator tokens.

tylerl

4:59 AM

Also, there's some way they've got it working from the command line on Linux, because there's a command-line workflow for authentication which requires the security key. And they even tunnel the auth channel over SSH so I can plug the token into my Macbook Air and authenticate a remote process on my Linux desktop over SSH. So I imagine these 2FA keys could easily be made to work for SSH authentication as well.

Terry Chia

@tylerl A pam maybe?

Google has a publicly available PAM for HOTP/TOTP. Wouldn't surprise me if they have one for the FIDO token (assuming that's the 2FA you are talking about.)

tylerl

Yeah, the 2FA token. I think their SSH thing integrates into the key agent mechanism.

I guess I could look more closely into it.

But I think this would be a great thing to have generally available. It pretty much solves a lot of security issues.

Terry Chia

@tylerl +1 if you can get someone at Google to open source it. :)

tylerl

@TerryChia it might be already!

Terry Chia

@tylerl If it's on code.google.com I wouldn't know. That site is horrible to navigate. :)

tylerl

5:08 AM

google puts stuff on github now

nothing new goes onto code.google.com

github.com/google

Terry Chia

@tylerl I always get the impression that Google does not respond to bug reports on many of their open source projects. I think I have an issue on the google-authenticator repo that's been open for a year without a response now.

tylerl

@TerryChia They've been working heavily on this project. The NFC security token uses Google Authenticator as its in-app backend.

There's not a large team working on that app.

But I know there's been some real work that's gone in to making this work, including a lot of hardware issues. Powering a chip over NFC to do cryptographic operations is a bit outside the norm.

And this was the team that had to figure out how to make it happen. It's still a bit in progress and the user experience isn't optimal. But they've gotten far enough that Yubico can actually produce devices for sale.

Rory Alsop

6:44 AM

@TildalWave lovely! :-)

Iszi

So, how is it that we're more than half-way through the week and haven't heard of a new Internet-breaking vulnerability yet? Is @ThomasPornin on vacation or something?

Rory Alsop

@Iszi morning

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Howdy

Rоry McCune

8:06 AM

morning all

@RoryAlsop how was hard rock?

Terry Chia

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune interesting. Not the best venue (large rectangular high ceilinged room) but it was okay

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia :op

Rory Alsop

not our best gig

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop well I guess they can't all be </morning philosophy>

Rory Alsop

8:12 AM

and I had a string which went about 4 songs from the end

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop erk

Rory Alsop

oh, and no pyro allowed

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop that's not very hard rock!

Rory Alsop

so we got to use the confetti cannons (as they are CO2 powered) but no flames, no party poppers etc

Not sure how well the promo team liked the silly string guns either :-)

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop heh

Terry Chia

8:14 AM

@RоryMcCune That's what she said!

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia you're in a @Simon mood today aren't you :op

or are you just filling in for @avid

who is off on his travels at the mo'

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune I'm offended. My track record speaks for itself: chat.stackexchange.com/…

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia what so you're saying that @simon is cloning you rather than the other way around?

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia hahahahaha - not quite 100

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune @Simon is the donut guy.

@RoryAlsop Well, I did bother to type out the entire thing a few times so...

Rory Alsop

8:17 AM

@TerryChia excuses...

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop TWSS?

Arperum

@RоryMcCune That was just to break the @TerryChia only chat search.

Rоry McCune

@Arperum ah no his chat search was only for him... if you do a TWSS search in here, I'm willing to bet there would be other participants...

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=twss&user=&room=151

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Interesting that I make up a third of that.

@AviD has 76 which isn't that far behind.

Arperum

@RоryMcCune Hadn't noticed that.

Rory Alsop

8:32 AM

@TerryChia I have 23! Does that make me a hipster?

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop nah turns out @Polynomial is the TWSS hipster as he started using it in here back in 2012

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Sure, you probably started saying "that's what she said" before there was a "she".

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia That's what she will say...

Terry Chia

8:57 AM

@RoryAlsop Now I get to label you a misogynist for telling women what they can or cannot say. ;)

Kidding of course. :P

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia hmmm - are precogs by their very nature overbearing/misogynystic/authoritative...?

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Hehe. That sounds like one for philosophy.se.

Terry Chia

10:56 AM

@tylerl Did they disable the Inbox invites due to large volumes? I'm not able to invite people although the help page says I should be able to.

Rоry McCune

11:52 AM

awesome long exposure shot from ISS

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune where is that from? I have loads of questions about it

I'm most puzzled by the regularity of some of the features

Rоry McCune

flickr.com/photos/nasa_jsc_photo/7186867293/in/… flckr page

reddit.com/r/space/comments/2k31n5/… reddit /r/space

is where I saw it

apparently the white bits are lightning strikes

looks like the flickr page has good chat

I just think it looks like some weird sci-fi planet where there whole world is coloured like that

Rory Alsop

The lightning strikes I'm okay with, although the regularity and angle of them is a tad weird, but more odd are the regular dim areas (eg in the orange bands near the right)

raz

12:08 PM

Someone smarter with password recovery want to comment on my answer here?

0

A: How does Putty derive the encryption key in its .ppk format?

Gotta love open source! The following code is from the stable Putty-0.63 release. sshpubk.c /* * Decrypt the private blob. */ if (cipher) { unsigned char key[40]; SHA_State s; if (!passphrase) goto error; if (private_blob_len % cipherblk) goto error; SHA_Init(&s); SHA_Bytes(&s, "\0...

Tinned_Tuna

laz: It uses the I'm assuming the key is the private key bytes itself, which would mean that it's pretty resilient to pre-computation (i.e. you need the key to even start guessing)

but it does look like it'll be pretty fast, so you could get a lot of guesses/sec to do dictionary-based attacks?

(and bruteforce, rule-based, etc.)

raz

laz?

@Tinned_Tuna I mean the passphrase generates the key to encrypt the private key bytes.

OH right, you need something to compare against

mornings are hard, I see what you're saying now.

Terry Chia

12:41 PM

2

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia you're a fan of the GIF aren't you ...

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune It's actually very useful in this room.

raz

@TerryChia haha, well played

I ended up finding the MAC check for the keyfile, and for PuTTY it's definitely non-trivial.

Rоry McCune

12:57 PM

@TerryChia You've spent some time looking at SSL ciphers IIRC, so as part of that I'm guessing you've enumerated the supported ciphers on things, so when you're testing it's handy to have a server where you "know" the answer before you scan (so you can make sure tools are working), s

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune I don't understand the question.

Rоry McCune

ok that went odd it edited rather than replied

replyception

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Heh, I usually verify against SSL Labs.

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune When I worked on such a tool I simply checked against OpenSSL

openssl s_server -msg -www...

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia @ThomasPornin cool, ta just running two tools and they seem to have different results so I'll try those options

Thomas Pornin

1:01 PM

@RоryMcCune You may try TestSSLServer

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Take mine for a spin while you are at it. :) I'll appreciate bug reports.

Thomas Pornin

Use the C#/.NET version (the Java one is older and has bugs)

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin that's one of the two, the other is nmap... :)

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune There can be issues with elliptic curves

Some servers will accept to use EC-based cipher suites only if the client claims support (through an extension) of a specific curve.

TestSSLServer does not claim much in that respect.

Rоry McCune

looks like it's nmaps ssl_ciper_enum plugin that's being weird...

it's claiming a DES cipher for SSLv3 is supported and TestSSLServer and sslyze disagree :)

I'm glad I didn't rely on nmap there or that would've been an incorrect finding!

Thomas Pornin

1:05 PM

@RоryMcCune Which cipher suite precisely ?

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin multiple, they had SSLv3 as supported with things like TLS_RSA_EXPORT1024_WITH_DES_CBC_SHA as supported

other two scanners say no SSLv3 at all let alone with weak ciphers

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune TestSSLServer does not test for that one

It is not part of the IANA registry: iana.org/assignments/tls-parameters/tls-parameters.xhtml

It appears to be related to an old draft RFC from Microsoft: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-56-bit-ciphersuites-01

So it is possible that the server you are inspecting does implement that non-standard cipher suite.

Rоry McCune

ahh that's interesting

Thomas Pornin

You may add it to TestSSLServer. Look for the InitCipherSuites() method.

Then add the entry: B5(0x0062, "RSA_EXPORT1024_WITH_DES_CBC_SHA");

("B5" means "uses a block cipher in CBC mode, and a medium-sized key")

Recompile, run.

Unfortunately, there are 65535 possible cipher suite identifiers, but only 32767 (at most) can be encoded in a ClientHello, and many servers enforce much lower counts (they don't tolerate big ClientHello messages).

Hence, tools like TestSSLServer must necessarily work with a limited list of "known cipher suites".

I have worked with the IANA registry, but I did not include non-standard cipher suites, for lack of a suitable reference for these cipher suites.

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin that's v. interesting, I'll try to get a chance to do that and see what happens, it does seem that there's some restrictions on SSL checking, especially where it uses the underlying OpenSSL libs as when they disable things like SSLv2 it stops the checker being able to check for them...

Thomas Pornin

1:16 PM

Mmh... I could make a version that brutally tries all possible cipher suites by making a thousand connections, each with a few dozens of cipher suite identifiers.

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin Does TestSSLServer rely on any libraries or do you implement the handshake yourself?

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia It is all hand-made.

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin Cool. I did the same thing. Pretty educational experience.

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia For the complete experience, try to complete the handshake (with the crypto).

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin That's definitely on the todo list. :)

Thomas Pornin

1:19 PM

This is where you learn the fine details of (for instance) what you should hash to compute the Finished message contents.

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune So yeah, that's a problem with many scanners out there because they rely on OpenSSL. But Thomas' and my tool will not have that issue since the handshake is hand-rolled.

Thomas Pornin

I have written complete SSL libraries (three times), both client and server (always for "good reasons"). This is why I tend to know how SSL works.

That's how one can tell me "there is a vulnerability in SSL 3.0 (but not TLS 1.0)" and I know where to look.

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