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6:20 AM
Hi! :) As a student of Greek, this question is interesting for me. I think that grammatically could refer to Joseph, but contextually no. — Paul Vargas Jun 24 at 13:14
@PaulVargas I'm a little baffled by that Q&A, but unless I'm missing something (very possible), I don't think that it can (i.e. grammatically).
(baffled because I think the OP knew that)
 
6:40 AM
@PaulVargas My understanding is that LSJ covers a different time period from BDAG, although they overlap around the NT. LSJ frequently includes meanings that obtain in classical Greek but not in the NT. In this case the meaning appears to have shifted: "drugs" > "potions" > "sorcery".
@Davïd Is that use of "obtain"correct? As far as I can tell, this (intransitive) use is only found in Biblical studies literature, and people seem to use it more broadly than my dictionary would allow.
 
7:11 AM
@Susan I reckon I'm not a reliable witness. But it does appear as the second (of two) meanings for the verb "obtain" in British English at Oxford Dictionaries.
@Susan (And no, I don't -- but will see if I can do a bit of digging.)
 
@Davïd Right, sometimes I think people use it to mean something like "applies": x "obtains" in y context. That I don't find in the dictionary. But both are new to me, so I'm certainly not a reliable witness.
(I wish we could have the word "reckon" in normal American English. Here it's only a backwoods term that, well.... doesn't work on the East Coast.)
 
7:38 AM
@Davïd OK thanks.
 
 
5 hours later…
12:25 PM
@Susan It is more likely that I'm wrong. I didn't have that rule (the Granville Sharp Rule) in mind. :)
 
12:40 PM
@Susan I think is reasonable. I must pay attention to the title of the book: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. So the definitions only cover the possible meanings in those texts. I think so! :D
 
12:53 PM
@Susan By the way, in Spanish, we have the word "obtener", which is used most frequently.
 
@PaulVargas Interesting. They look to be all transitive meanings, though, i.e. having a direct/accusative object, similar to the more common meaning in English.
 
1:19 PM
@PaulVargas Yeah, sometimes in BDAG you'll see the phrase "our lit.", usually to contrast something with its Classical use. The word δόξα may be the most common NT word that uniformly means something different in "our lit." than it did classically.
 
1:50 PM
@Susan Yes, I remember that I read a phrase very similar.
 

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