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Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
1:52 AM
@MonicaCellio Wow. I don't understand you at all. If we are not allowed to interpret the Bible as a single book, then we will not be able to interpret it. I don't understand your references to Muhammad. The Tanakh is filled with signs that pointed to Christ. And you are asking us to interpret the signs without Him. In many, even most, cases, this can't be done. Such a constraint shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Bible is and what it is for. — Mike Bull 31 mins ago
Wow. Just wow. He just doesn't give up. Nor get it.
 
TRiG
TRiG
2:06 AM
@MonicaCellio Or he does get it, and is intentionally trolling. (Who on Earth thinks the Bible is "a single book"?)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@TRiG see my comment here -- I think he is at the least willfully belligerent, and you may be right about trolling. Sigh
 
 
13 hours later…
Frank Luke
Frank Luke
2:41 PM
@TRiG The same person who said that the Pentateuch is highly structured poetry.
 
Dan
Dan
If anyone can give me a quick opinion, is it fair to say that the ESV and NET are "Reformed-influenced" translations?
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@Dan Yes and maybe? NET heavily influenced by:
Daniel B. Wallace
Daniel Baird Wallace (born 1952) is professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary. He is also the founder and executive director of the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts, the purpose of which is to is digitizing all known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament via digital photographs. Wallace was born June 5, 1952, in California. He earned his B.A.(1975) from Biola University, and his Th.M.(1979) and Ph.D.(1995) in New Testament studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. He also pursued postdoctoral studies in a variety of places, including in Cambridge...
 
Dan
Dan
I knew Wallace was the main guy behind it, but I thought he was Dallas Semianry's resident semi-liberal who they tolerated because he knows his stuff? (obviously he is very conservative)
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
3:00 PM
@Dan He does seem more liberal than what I expected from a DTS guy.
 
Dan
Dan
@JonEricson perhaps not, dunno. I read through most of his Greek book in Greek III & IV (assigned), he will sometimes even disagree with the NET haha. There are even some translator's notes that almost say, "I disagree with the committee, but they wanted this" haha
 
 
4 hours later…
swasheck
swasheck
6:31 PM
@Dan Wallace should also be read with David Allen Black and Stanley Porter. Wallace's command of manuscripts is remarkable. He's very traditional though, and he's gifted with the means of saying in fifty words what others can say in ten. That's why I like Black as a supplement.
... and Porter is a leader in Verbal Aspect Theory which provides an interesting balance to more traditional/Aktionsart approaches.
 
Dan
Dan
6:53 PM
@swasheck the first time I took Greek (a decade ago) was with Black's introductory text, or are you referring to a more advanced grammar? I'm not familiar with Porter. Links to specific works? I'll gladly buy them - thanks
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:14 PM
@Dan Honestly, "It's Still Greek to Me" is concise and intelligible. Very helpful. And inexpensive. Are you taking Greek again?
@Dan i think i remember you being a Logos guy so they have this one which is really quite excellent as well
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck I still want to finish the sequence at Mid-America, I took the full phase a decate ago at Concordia
@swasheck then I took Greek 1-3 at Mid-America Reformed Seminary last year, my dad got in an accident and moved in with my wife and I so I held off on taking 4
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Dan Idioms was a required text for me in a class i took for fun last year
 
Dan
Dan
I want to go back and take 4, it is essentially just the second half of Wallace's grammar
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Dan i have no idea what the numbers would relate to so i cant really speak to it :)
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck 1 & 2 at MARS was Machen's book
we went through his book plus supplemental vocab and exercises so we could translate more and have all words that appear 30+ times
Gk 3 got us down to all words that appear 15+ times and covers half of Wallace's grammar
Gk 4 will be more vocab and translation and the rest of Wallace
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:19 PM
@Dan unfamilair with that. we did bill mounce and dan wallace through the first few semesters. after that we were on our own, with the guidance of black and our professor (who's quite the greek stud himself)
 
Dan
Dan
At Concordia, we covered everything in 1&2 at MARS in 1 semester, but it met 5 days a week for an entire semester for Gk 1 & 2 so we got through a lot mroe material
MARS was a 7 week intensive, 4 hrs/day for 4 days/wk, we covered 1 & 2 (all of Machen)
Machen is what people used to use because it was the only game in town
 
swasheck
swasheck
i took my beginning gk over the summer so it sounds similar
 
Dan
Dan
it's pretty user-unfriendly
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Dan hrm. as i said ... wallace is very good but he's probably too good for his own good. i found him to be pretty inaccessible compared to mounce. but once i got the foundations, i found wallace to be far more useful
@Dan yeah. just found it
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck machen is probably the text Wallace had to use in school haha
i didn't like it at all - no one did
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:23 PM
perhaps.
it makes you tougher.
 
Dan
Dan
I don't even think the teacher liked it - but he was adjunct (Ph.D. student at Wheaton) so he had no choice haha
@swasheck my biggest complaint is that I didn't feel equipped to deal with the actual text of the NT. He wrote all his own exercises so we like to say we became good at "Machenese Greek" but not NT Greek
 
swasheck
swasheck
the big joke in seminary was that there's really no new greek grammar research to cause these books to be written, it's just that everyone sucks at presenting it so people write their own that makes sense to themselves (and usually that's the only person to whom it makes sense)
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck probably true
but now after working with the text more, I think Machenese is harder than many NT writers, so maybe he did us a favor
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Dan i'm not convinced that dealing with "NT Greek" is useful, though. at least not initially.
 
Dan
Dan
he would intentionally jack up the word order to force us to rely on grammar a lot
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:25 PM
@Dan that's honestly a good thing. word order isnt guaranteed
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck exactly
 
swasheck
swasheck
once you have learned the basics of koine ... then seeing how they play themselves out in a few NT examples would be good. but the problem is that there's always some gnarly exception
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck that's what wallace is nice for - a good reference, plus the NET notes are great at times
 
swasheck
swasheck
indeed. well. back to the salt mines. have a good day
 
Dan
Dan
@swasheck but I disagree with him at times, like Romans 4:25 :P
@swasheck haha k
@swasheck u2
 

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