It seems you equate collectivism with social organization.

@Starckman It seems that is an important cultural difference between East and West. But if we are looking for comparability, I believe one has to try to overcome such differences. I'll see if I can add this too :-)

Thanks for the link to this paper!

“ But if we are looking for comparability”, precisely I don’t really search comparability, if by that you mean unification. I search similarities (if any) and differences (if any)

@Starckman You're welcome! I found the SEP entry on Chinese political philosophy (there is not one about collectivism, and Wikipedia is pretty poor on that too). When talking about Analects they don't mention collectivism as an academic consensus for Confucianism, therefore I think it's being currently debated (see, for example, this other paper, where is government's use of Confucianism which is critized, not Confucianism itself).

@Starckman I understand. I hope it gets answered by more people too who can provide further insight. In any case, I will later continue researching myself.

What collective? Collectivism and relationalism from a Chinese perspective: [..] Confucian teachings have been considered as the philosophical basis for collectivism, and East Asian societies – especially Chinese societies – have often been seen as prototypical collectivist cultures.

Also from the same paper: Based on an in-depth analysis of Chinese and Confucian cultures and the literature on guanxi, it is argued that the concept of relationalism will more closely reflect the way self relates to others in these societies.

@Starckman What I mean is that this difference of "collectivism vs individualism" does not seem to be inherent to either philosophy, but instead a cultural barrier, which hampers fair comparison (either about similarities or differences). The existences of so many papers discussing it adds additional evidence for my point.

@irecorsan “ What I mean is that this difference of "collectivism vs individualism" does not seem to be inherent to either philosophy” But I think the quote you gave tells the contrary “Confucian teachings have been considered as the philosophical basis for collectivism”

@Starckman Then I am really amazed that this is not explicitly said in SEP since I have found it really clear on other issues. I totally get your point but I think that the problem is the heavy moral and "rational" content of Confucianism makes it difficult to make it a definite categorization of collectivism. Maybe it is a contradictory philosophy? I have seen Confucio being compared with Plato, so this might be the issue

Even that paper states that Confucianism has been used as a base for collectivism, which is not as saying they are the same. After all, Christianity has also be the base for many different political constructions. The more I look on this the more puzzled I am.

Apologies for the typos, using mobile

@irecorsan I don’t understand what this paper is talking about. Do you?

Which part don't you understand? I have access only to the summary unfortunately

@Starckman

@irecorsan mostly the end “ Based on an in-depth analysis of Chinese and Confucian cultures and the literature on guanxi, it is argued that the concept of relationalism will more closely reflect the way self relates to others in these societies. Moreover, a tripartite model of individualism, relationalism, and collectivism will provide a more comprehensive framework for the study of the way self relates to others in a cross-cultural context.”

@Starckman I guess they want to discard collectivism as defining East Asia societies, and instead use what they call relativism. In any case, I think the main issue here is whether or not there is academic consensus that Confucianism necessarily postulates collectivism AND Illustration necessarily postulates individualism.

Humanism*