(@doppelgreener [gestures above] Relephant to one of your campaign ideas?)

@Shalvenay I haven't actually played Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space, but I lifted the initiative system for my FAE Doctor Who game.

@BESW ah

It's a skill/attribute system with fate-point-like Story Points which are spent in various quantities to get commensurate control over the narrative, and are earned for doing awesome stuff or accepting failure.

@BESW nods

Combat is deadly, everybody else gets to go first each round if you're using combat to solve your problems (shooting the lights isn't Fighting, it's Doing), and the game's just plain rigged so fighting can hardly ever solve the big-picture problem of the adventure.

@BESW yeah -- my problem isn't that I necessarily want to solve everything through combat, it's that I don't see social problems as valid ones to have. :P (in a non-combat game, for me, it becomes a giant pile of technical/logistical problems)

I'm aware.

But there are very few games which see any need to convince you that their primary conflict paradigm is valid; they figure if you're playing the game, you already think the game's focus is a worthwhile one.

There are many systems which help keep the focus on their chosen paradigm, but that's different from convincing the players the paradigm is valid.

@BESW yeah -- it leaves me at a "what should I do?" juncture

That's not really something a system is likely to fix on its own.

We're getting back into "This is something that needs to be addressed through people not rules."

right -- but it seems like the people side isn't any good for addressing it either

Mmm, it's difficult to find people who are capable and willing, but it's possible. I'm not sure it's possible for a system to do that at all.

@BESW true. where should I go looking for said people though?

I dunno. You may have to cast a wider net than just "people who will play RPGs with me" in order to find that support, as RPGs are just one of many tools which could help.

@BESW yeah -- I'm just not sure what to broaden that net to -- working with a psychologist is one option I've tried some, but that....has its downsides as well, it seems

Fair enough.

I'm reminded of the Majnûn of Love.

> It is related that one day they came upon Majnún sifting the dust, and his tears flowing down. They said, “What doest thou?” He said, “I seek for Laylí.” They cried, “Alas for thee! Laylí is of pure spirit, and thou seekest her in the dust!” He said, “I seek her everywhere; haply somewhere I shall find her.”

because it seems like what I'm more or less need is the correctly shaped mirror to bring this all into the right focus :P

I doubt you're going to get an epiphany.

@BESW hrm, more like a slow adaptation?

Yeah, this sort of thing usually progresses incrementally, through perseverance and hard work.

> The steed of this Valley is patience; without patience the wayfarer on this journey will reach nowhere and attain no goal.

I think you may be selling yourself short, though; the time and energy you spend on this problem indicates you have some deep-seated understanding of how valid a social problem can be.

@BESW yeah, there's a strong tension there I can tell