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12:16 AM
@BartSilverstrim that question is scary. They're storing a lot of data for people that don't seem to know how.
 
12:28 AM
Cripes. That's video-vault storage. Occasional access, but mostly dead.
 
Wow. Get a few Sun/Oracle x4540s and call it a day.
48 SATA drives per 4U
 
That works too...
 
Of course, the rack will collapse most any raised floor and also need a few extra CRACs on the premise, but hey... minor details.
 
I wonder if the poster really needs all that data online ad infinitum.
 
@EvanAnderson Y-e-a-h. Video-vault applications are the definition of 'near-line'.
 
12:42 AM
@sysadmin1138: It's just not clear from the poster's question how he's planning to access it. "Video vault" applications, until very recently, have been rooms filled with magnetic tapes. I'd guess that's still a viable strategy, from a cost perspective, for some very rarely-accessed content.
 
That's kinda what I was thinking - well you can see that from my answer. fast storage to upload new stuff and keep frequently used clips
and the rest managed onto different tiers of storage
It just bothers me that someone's adding 10TB of data to their library a month and has no sign that they're managing any of this
 
@RobertMoir: Yeah-- now that I bother to read (>smile<) I'm seeing that. +1. Imposing a storage hierarchy works well if the content is accessed in such a manner that it can be mapped onto that hierarchy. If the business can handle recall speed on little-used content being "slow" then it should work great.
 
I don't care how much money and how much space you have for your IT spend you will hit budgetary and physical limits eventually if you don't manage it somehow.
 
@EvanAnderson I was helping a group decide what to get back in... 2002? Their problem was that they wanted all their stuff available in the swanky new online editing suite, just in case. That was my first encounter with ATA-Raid.
 
If the whole thing "has" to be high-speed random access then the business will have to bite-the-bullet and spend big money or, more than likely, revise their requirements to something more sane.
@sysadmin1138: When I say "until very recently" I'm thinking, say, in the last 10 - 15 years. Hard disk storage densities pre-2000 would have made storing video on disk very, very expensive.
 
12:48 AM
Yeah... much much smaller scale but we track storage at 'my' college to see how its being used and the video/media classes use of data maps to the tiers I suggested to them. You get all teh stuff thats fresh and new and some parts of the "stock clip library" that get used all the time
then at the bottom end theres all the old projects that are kept for reference by the staff, and to point new students at when new students re-use ideas that old students have done already
 
@EvanAnderson Which was why I was head-scratchy when they suggested it. This was for a part-time station, though, so their storage demands were lower overall than for something broadcasting 24 hours.
 
The poster's real question should be "What kind of storage do we need for <insert business need for recall capability here> w/ data growing at 10TB / month?"
 
well with 10TB a month growth its not even just the cost of disks. Think of the power and cooling that has to go behind that
 
Which is why I'm thinking LTO5 would go a long ways for them.
 
So many tradeoffs... power, cooling, disk cabinets for hard disks or linear feet of shelf space for tapes. >smile<
And a "drone" to go get tapes and put them into the silos!
I haven't kept up on how many TB (PB?) you can cram into a modern tape silo, either.
 
12:52 AM
@EvanAnderson Yeah, neither have I. I've stopped lusting after 16-head 500 slot libraries and started lusting after .5PB VTLs.
 
Yeesh! The "StorageTek SL8500 Modular Library System" scales to 100,000 LTO-5 slots!
 
That ought to do it
 
For storing the entire USGS Image Library.
 
Heh heh... That would cost, forgive my language, a metric fuckton.
 
All our speculation and you'll probably find the "10TB a month" figure was speculation and someone at that company is hoping to do this by buying a buffalo desktop NAS each month.
 
12:55 AM
@RobertMoir Or they're planning on growth.
 
"We've started building the cubicle walls in our office out of consumer NAS units."
 
That said, HD video eats storage like whoa.
 
Well I know its trite but if you don't know the only way to find out is to ask, so its a fair enough question and all
 
You know you've got a storage problem when you don't bother heating the office in Winter.
2
 
heh
 
12:56 AM
@sysadmin1138: +1 to that assessment re: HD video storage. My K-12 school Customer bought a bunch of HD camcorders this year and I'm fighting them tooth-and-nail to understand that they can't just put raw video from the cameras onto the file servers.
 
after our overheating episode at work the other week, I was honestly wondering if our facilities manager had considered "harvesting" the heat our server rooms generated to heat the building
 
@EvanAnderson I had that battle... 5?.... years ago when the new big Digicams started showing up in offices. Two months ago our Admissions office got a new scanner and was storing 5MB scans of B/W forms. :P
 
As the heating in the rest of the building failed along with the cooling in the server rooms, I can't help thinking that everyone would have been happier if he had!
disk quotas and a shotgun?
 
Happily (or not) the folk doing video work 'around these parts have given up trying to put their stuff on central storage.
@RobertMoir Nah, we send a tech down to teach them how to tune their scans. They really didn't need 1200dpi full-color scans for b/w docs.
 
Apple's Final Cut Pro doesn't even allow you / try to work with video files stored on the LAN. You can copy them down locally or you can go home as far as its concerned.
@sysadmin1138 it sounds like you have sensible staff who can be reasoned with. We have an art department who broke an inkjet by trying to feed a t-shirt through it to print a design onto the t-shirt.
 
1:00 AM
That's pretty valid. GbE itself is really used by that kind of thing, and more than one user doing that (we had a question about that recently, actually) will kill it ded.
 
Apparently "The first one worked".
 
@RobertMoir picks self off of floor Okay, that's a winner.
 
Oh I am glad Apple chose to limit that. It's a source of great relief to me and great frustration to the person running the video editing suites who knows all there is to know about video and knows... well even less than I know about video... about networking
 
10GbE and iSCSI will probably show up in video editing suites before too long :)
 
Funnily enough, I got the K-12 school to get some Buffalo consumer NAS devices for the labs where the video was being used and stuck them in the cabinets with the switches in those rooms. None of it is backed-up (and the instructors know it) but it lets them share content and keeps it off the LAN/WAN backbone.
 
1:03 AM
Thank you thankyou. The amazing User Circus will be here all night. It's happy hour at the bar soon and you've been a great audience. No really.
 
Really, local storage like that is not a bad thing if it is used knowingly. We don't have a meaningful "low tier" in storage-land, so... um... it works.
 
And don't forget to buy a t-shirt. You have no idea what I went through to get those made... rimshot
 
I'm on the fence re: video editing software not allowing the user to work with files via the network. In the rooms w/ the NAS units I described access to the video files via the LAN is actually pretty tolerable (it's all GigE between the PCs and the storage).
 
@EvanAnderson That is really about the only way for it to reasonably work.
 
The problem with using that local storage is that now I'm getting requests for more of it for data that needs to be backed-up. I'm fine with a distributed storage tier for non-sensitive and non-critical data. I'm less thrilled with distributed storage when it edges toward mission-criticality.
 
1:05 AM
It'll be getting better for us soon. We're replacing our edge switches, which is bringing 10GbE one tier closer to the edge. A single high-rate D/L from our storage won't kill an entire switch-worth of users any more!
 
I think Apple were erring on the side of caution for sure Evan, but it would have killed our old LAN and frankly I'm still not sure I'd fancy on the new 10Gb one.
 
You hit the nail on the head w.r.t. backups, though. Those types of stores tend to be so large that they become cost prohibitive to actually backup.
 
@packs That definitely falls into off-site live replication land, or just pray you don't have a fire.
 
I offered the option of backup of the video NAS devices with daily snapshotting between two NASs, but otherwise I said "forget about backing them up". They're still using LTO-2 tape and the library is only 8 slot.
 
@EvanAnderson Yeouch. Yeah, they're backup-constrained.
 
1:06 AM
There's no good answer to that one though @packs - if the data is important enough to want to back them up then no matter what it costs to do it, it presumably would cost more not to... if things go wrong.
 
@sysadmin1138: The business data is only about 300GB with a 40GB daily differential by the end of the week and a 2 day window for full backups, so the LTO-2 actually still fits pretty well.
 
@sysadmin1138 At one time I was dealing with a PBS station that had something along the lines of a 10TB video array. It was pretty disgusting to think about.
 
We give the students and staff portable disks to store the work onto so they can work live off that, then copy up to our network and that is their backup. I'm not completely happy with that, but if the disks are portable then there's a copy offsite at night so...
i mean just the video stuff is done like that. All "conventional" data is backed up to a LTO tape library nightly thank you very much.
 
Speaking of, there IS one backup I should check on this weekend...
Huh, it actually completed! Nifty. Anyway, my biggest off-center storage consumer is over in the College of Science and Technology. I don't know how much data they have over there, but it's close to the amount I manage.
 
quite a bit then
 
1:13 AM
>grumble< The "hotspot" where I'm sitting just "logged me out" and I lost my last comment. GRRR...
 
@sysadmin1138 That's an awful lot of torrents
 
@packs They also have Nuclear Magneto Resonance machine over there. If you need a drive degaussed, that's the room to put it in.
 
i ain't never going to really like wireless until it improves a heck of a lot
 
@RobertMoir: 802.11n is very nice.
 
@sysadmin1138 Too bad data destruction via degaussing cannot be verified.
 
1:16 AM
Yeah but I still think its inherently... well not unreliable... lets just say that people expect too much of it at times, largely thanks to the way its marketed
 
As are the access points from Ruckus Wireless. I can't vouch for anybody else's "next generation" APs, but the 802.11n Ruckus APs that one of my Customers had put in last fall are very, very nice. I've only got 802.11abg in my laptop, but working on the 802.11n system feels enough like wired in their building that I stopped plugging-in.
Agreed re: the marketing. The idea of the "all wireless office" is a dumb one, to my mind. Cabling is so cheap and the reliability vs. price ratio is simply unbeatable.
 
@EvanAnderson I've heard very cool things about Ruckus, good to hear that it might actually be true
 
Ruckus are big in the UK education sector, I haven't seen any site say a bad word about them
 
@packs: I am VERY happy with their APs. The units we have (I'm trying to find the model number) even have OpenWRT firmware distros available. Their "ZoneDirector" controller is alright, but the APs themselves are great.
 
Actually the Aruba gear we have is nice too. My problem with wireless is how its presented as the miracle cure for everything, not really a technical problem as such...
 
1:19 AM
Wireless is OK until you need more bandwidth than you have. Or contention issues start eating you alive.
 
Since it's invisible I think a lot of non-technical decision makers have a hard time understanding that there's finite bandwidth in a given spectrum in a given volume of space.
 
@EvanAnderson We're getting ready to upgrade our wireless infrastructure away from Bluesocket and Cisco. I've been planting that bug in the network guys ear whenever I get a chance.
 
@packs: The Ruckus pricing blew the pants off of Cisco gear.
Both for initial installation and ongoing support expense.
SMARTnet is expensive!
 
We found the cisco price to be bad too, to be honest. Overpriced for what it is.
 
I assume that shiny Cisco nameplates are made of gold underneath.
 
1:21 AM
@RobertMoir For the wired side we recently made the jump from Cisco over to Juniper for that very reason.
 
Cisco makes great gear but, DAMN, the pricing can be outrageous.
 
@EvanAnderson - yes non-techie people don't understand it. When you find yourself having to explain to a former physics lecturer that wireless works on radio waves and that therefore... blah blah... you do have to wonder if people intentionally degauss their brains of any kind of technical knowledge at a certain level
 
The last time our router-core was up for bid, HP gave us the full court press. The Cisco bid made it by the skin of their teeth and some creative RFP writing on the part of our telecom group.
 
@packs Cisco bid to put wired, wireless and telephony into our new campus and we rejected all 3 suggestions. As this is my real name and the chat might be indexable I have to watch what I say about the choice, but the bid from a HP partner to go with HP wired, Aruba Wireless and mitel telephones was much better. Though I'm not wholly convinced by mitel.
 
@sysadmin1138 I have a feeling you guys ended up with the pretty blue boxes that can heat a small former Soviet bloc nation didn't you?
 
1:25 AM
@RobertMoir: I have been universally disappointed by all offerings from "traditional" phone system vendors, Mitel included. They are all still firmly locked into the proprietary business model.
 
Yep. The current edge-switch deployment includes PoE, so new L5-20 and some L5-30 plugs are going in most wiring closets.
 
power consumption was a big issue for us, being "green" is a big issue in UK education right now to the point where we got funding just for being "green" and both HP & their reseller had all the right answers...
 
@EvanAnderson YES. We have a Nextel PBX that we keep not replacing, and have to deal with the proprietary crap all the time.
 
All our edge switch ports are POE
 
Ours will be soon.
In fact, in the next two weeks one of my projects is going to be a demo of Microsoft Linc.
 
1:26 AM
I actually wanted to do something based around a unified comms system, probably the Microsoft one as MS practically give the stuff away to edu, and we're already a MS shop with Exchange installed... but it was overly complicated
in a way there's a gap in the middle where the likes of MS have taken care of a lot of fancy features but don't quite have the telephony basics nailed, and the old school phone providers are stuck in the past as Evan says
 
I helped with a sipXecs PBX deployment in a small site (sub-75 phones) and I'm seriously considering recommending it for a Cisco CallManager replacement in a 200 phone environment. I'd love to see how big it really could scale.
 
You want legacy? Our Telecom group was 'self funded' in large part due to long-distance fees. Those have cratered in the last couple years, so they've been struggling to find a new revenue model.
 
ouchie
 
@sysadmin1138: Ick! "Long distance" is definitely a dying "business" to fund yourself on. Heh heh... "Hey, networking group-- can you block Skype for us?"
 
I think they're attempting to meter internet-access for departments/buildings in some way.
 
1:29 AM
(Come on... I just realized that I've got only 5 more rep 'til 50K!)
 
Or at least that's a goal.
 
In the old campus site we had an old avaya system that was dying on its feet.
That was pretty poor, but once we were comitted to building the new campus and fitting it out with a new network including VOIP of some kind it seemed like a waste of money to replace the avaya system where it was
it started crashing more and more frequently... avaya didn't make parts for it any more...
by the time we moved it was hanging pretty much every other day
 
The proprietary phone system business model is so annoying. Buy our big box, forklift out all your phones, and pay for it for 5 years. When the lease is up, lather, rinse, and repeat.
 
yeah
 
When ours came up for renewal a couple years ago, we opted to re-up the lease since replacement was an equal sized forklift of cash, and in the 10 year lifetime of the device VOIP was obviously going to replace everything.
 
1:36 AM
ok i didn't realise just how late it was here... cya later folks
 
My wife says it's time to go to dinner, so I'm going to leave, too. Hopefully, when I get back, I've got 50K rep... >smile< (Yeah, like I need any more rep...)
 
I'm in the process of making dinner :)
 
@sysadmin1138 Our telcom guys were in the same boat until, I think, the late mid-late 90s. Thankfully that whole shift went down long before I got here.
 
There have been a number of layoffs down there thanks to that. Which is sad!
Evan go Ding.
 
@EvanAnderson Dinner, at 20 till 9? At our age?!?
Funny how someone mentions a rep milestone and suddenly gets +20 within a few minutes.
@sysadmin1138 Ours just resulted in a reorg
 
1:41 AM
@packs THe whole 'self-support' thing throws a monkey-wrench in that. That's a civil service status that confuses the heck out of me.
Our Parking Services group is self-support as well, which means that they're completely zealous about issuing tickets.
 
@sysadmin1138 It tends to encourage abusive behaviour.
I was just thinking about how many Parking Services depts at public universities across the country are self-funded :)
 
It gets really bad when a department like that has to compete in the perception market with subsidized private entities. The on-campus prices always seem larcenous.
 
Huh, looks like I'm getting pretty close to 4k.
The only price lists I've seen of our stuff are the electronics. Those prices tend to be pretty competitive, but with State-wide purchasing contracts it's not that difficult to be.
 
I'm thinking more about the services fees. But thanks to state master-contracts and .EDU pricing it's all pretty competetive.
1
A: How do I get module mixins to work for static methods?

I quitI am the copyright owner of the text in this post and I rescind any previous rights to publish my text on the site: StackOverflow.com. This message is an unofficial notification under the provisions of Section 512(c) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”) to effect removal of the above...

This'll be fun to watch go down.
 
I can't actually say that I've seen any of the pricing on our so-called services, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the next best thing to highway robbery.
@sysadmin1138 I'd say. I wonder how that type of a cease-and-desist would fly with the CC license.
 
1:55 AM
Our 'Legal' section states in essence, "by submitting you agree to license the work by CC". Indeed. I think someone is having a snit fit.
 
The legal page also lists the official Agent contact information, which is good.
But this dude didn't follow it, which makes it an invalid complaint. Which is bad.
 
It even says, "unofficial notification," in the post. Scary legaleese!
 
I would consider that more funny than scary.
 
Yeeaaah.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:44 AM
@sysadmin1138 Looks like it got rolled back.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:58 AM
hey guys
 
7:15 AM
good morning
 
mornin' @alvosu
 
 
4 hours later…
11:31 AM
Anyone who bowdlerizes my answers should be skinned alive. serverfault.com/posts/215924/revisions
The cat does not approve.
 
11:49 AM
I generally disagree with profanity on the main site (it's OK in chat in moderation, IMO). I wouldn't like to get the main site on somebody's corporate blacklist because it has NSFW language on it - it's too much of a valuable resource
 
 
3 hours later…
2:35 PM
@BenPilbrow People are too sensitive.
IT is a rough world, and anyone who doesn't like that, can fuck off ;)
 
Yeah people are too sensitive, but that's life unfortunately. I suspect you'd be pissed if your workplace blocked Server Fault (which you KNOW had the answer to the exact problem you're having now) because a filter picked up swear words
 
 
1 hour later…
3:41 PM
People may be too sensitive, but using profanity is likely to work against you. @Tom Yes I will, no sense getting in an argument with someone likely to get abusive. There is enough of that in the world already.
 
yc
3:59 PM
So, I'm getting attacked by a particular IP address in Poland, trying a brute force SSH login. Is there anything I should be doing?
 
Nothing because fail2ban will kick in any minute? :P
Sorry, not so helpful :)
If you don't have fail2ban installed, can you just block the IP at the firewall level?
 
yc
Oh, hm, im looking at more logs, its a whole bunch of different IP addresses. Damn. Does that mean I should just change my ssh port?
 
Well I'm certainly no expert on Linux. Changing the SSH port would help, but if they were determined they'd do a portscan and eventually find it.
In all seriousness though, have you looked into fail2ban?
Fail2ban is an intrusion prevention framework written in the Python programming language. It is able to run on POSIX systems that have an interface to a packet-control system or firewall installed locally (for example, iptables or TCP Wrapper). Functionality Fail2ban's main function is to block selected IP addresses that may belong to hosts that are trying to breach the system's security. It determines the hosts to be blocked by monitoring log files (e.g. /var/log/pwdfail, /var/log/auth.log, etc.) and bans any host IP that makes too many login attempts or performs any other unwanted actio...
 
yc
I hadn't; I'm a developer with very little sysadmin experience, and just noticed a 200mb log file of the intrusions.
fail2ban looks like exactly what i'm looking for, though, as long as its not difficult to install :)
 
@yc which os ?
 
4:07 PM
Again, I'm only a casual Linux guy, but you would hope it's only a case of apt-get install fail2ban (or your distro's equivalent)
I imagine the main site has loads of good information on intrusion prevention and probably fail2ban as well
 
yc
@Iain Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
 
yum install fail2ban
will install fail2ban
then edit /etc/fail2ban/jail.conf and find the line [ssh-iptables]
below that line change the next line enabled = false to enabled = true
 
yc
@Iain amazing. thanks.
 
restart the fail2ban service and you're away
I would do a bit of reading up on fail2ban and its defaults which are I think 5 attempts in 10 mins leading to a 10 minute ban
 
yc
4:26 PM
Ok, my YUM didn't have fail2ban, but I just -wget'ed it myself. Thanks!
 
4:52 PM
@BenPilbrow If i worked in a place that had internet filtering, i'd do one of two things. Circumvent it, because these things are Pointless and Destructive, or 2), leave, and find somewhere that doesn't suck, and treat its employees like children.
 
What about where I work Tom? We treat our users like children.... because most of them are. Should we not have filtering?
 
1) I'd do you for gross misconduct, then you'd be stuck with 2) which is your prerogative. Some people do work in places that treat staff like children and aren't willing to move. It's life for them, and it sucks but there's no point making it worse for them
Anyway, I'm not in the mood for an argument, so I think we should agree to disagree :-)
 
@RobertMoir Not for staff.
@BenPilbrow You filter everyone's traffic? Why? What do you possibly have to gain from it? Trust the people you hire, and don't hire people you don't trust.
 
No Tom I don't, we trust our employees. Just saying some do filter/monitor traffic
Only "filtering" we have is a virus-type filter thingy somewhere between our ISP and us
 
We place a less restrictive filter on staff (mostly to "warn - click to continue" on things that would be blocked for students so they don't set blocked URLs as homework), but as part of safeguarding we're required to filter our links for everyone so that a student might not see something upsetting on a staff member's monitor as they walk by.

I don't deny that seems somewhat absurd and our students are considerably more worldly wise than the people who write these laws seem to think but the rules are the rules
 
5:00 PM
it's utter nonsense, because nobody's filtering their internet access from home.
not in the same way, anyway.
 
But I'm not legally liable for what they see at home
so i don't care
 
If you see something on a work computer, it might get you the sack. Not so when you're at home
 
But I have to say, having a filter isn't something I feel comfortable with, let alone being the "filter police". If I was allowed to decide what filtering policies I set then our network would be a lot more open than it is.
Still, that's why work is called work instead of "Super Happy Fun Time"
 
See, i think part of being on the systems team, means that you're not under the same network filtering policies.
or at least, that's how it should be.
 
anyway... I just watched the Billy Connolly 2010 dvd. Side splitting stuff as long as you speak scottish
 
5:08 PM
ahh
i'm watching Some Like It Hot
 
Well again we have a "sysadmin" filter as well as a "staff" one. The sysadmin filter is a bit more open, and again, click to continue on stuff we're allowed into that we want to keep students and staff out of.
a taste for the classics eh?
 
hehe. It's a great film.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:12 PM
@yc fail2ban is available in EPEL. See this for how to install it as a repository: fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ#howtouse
 
good ${time_of_day} @packs
 
Good ${time_of_day}, @Iain
I trust your day has been lovely?
 
7:28 PM
@packs - it's been fine, wet and windy so I changed my plans from gardening to reading :)
 
@Iain How...unfortunate?
 
i think either my video card or my power supply are on their way out
 
sort of I wanted to tidy up a hedge before the blackbirds get to nesting - 2 years ago I did it in the second week of Fem and disturbed a nest :(
hi Robert
 
Hi Iain
so your gardening got snowed off yet?
 
what's happening with the system ?
no - we've had it wet and windy
 
7:38 PM
frequent reboots with all kinds of BSODs - and often just reboots with no BSOD. Rebooted into Linux and had the same there. Well obviously no BSOD ;-)
Yeah its not been pleasant here either
 
@Iain I know what you mean. Whoever cared for the hedge before we bought this house did a pretty poor job. So now it is in bad health, thin and not very much foliage.
 
where is there ?
 
Been blowing like crazy and threatening a storm around Bedford.
 
Hello
 
hiya
 
7:40 PM
Hi Jacob
 
My part of the world was on countryfile tonight
 
why?
 
Mainly the Dee Estuary and Ellesmere Port canal museum
 
cool
 
8:04 PM
good afternoon
 
Evening
 
Some of you may be interested in my latest blogpost: tomoconnor.eu/blogish/dedicated-dedicated
 
reads
 
@RobertMoir It's the exact opposite of your "HELP MY SERVER'S BEEN HACKED" question :P
 
you're right. I'm actually enjoying reading yours!
 
8:20 PM
Heh.
Apparently I have an interesting writing style.
it's also the longest thing i've written since leaving uni.
 
Tom
Hello all
how goes?
 
Slowly.
Waiting for Dinner to cook.
 
@TomOConnor Nice blog post...
 
@Jacob Thanks :)
only a month late :P
 
@TomOConnor eh, I'm still needing ideas for mine...
 
8:33 PM
@TomOConnor s/question from a blog-post/answer from a blog-post/ ?
 
@Iain yeah, probably.
 
nice post, Tom, real nice. Bookmarked the site btw
 
@RobertMoir Thanks :)
 
bloody timeout
What's for dinner?
 
Roast Lamb :3
 
8:36 PM
nice post, Tom, real nice. Bookmarked the site btw
very nice
 
Once I've got RSS feeds sorted out, everything will be so much easier too :)
 
@RobertMoir those messages did actually come through :P
 
annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd watch the site repost all the stuff it said timed out sigh
 
:-)
 
well i'm off on a course for a week next week
 
8:39 PM
cough http://JacobJernigan.com :)
 
sharepoint 2010 admin bootcamp. What fun!
 
Ooh Sharepoint, lovely
 
I'm starting a Jury Service tomorrow
 
It's like someone looked at Lotus notes and thought "Makes too much sense...."
Jury duty? That's even worse than a sharepoint bootcamp!
2
 
thanks for that cheery thought !
 
8:41 PM
heh sorry!
 
@Iain Ahhh Being 15.... I deal with none of those awful things.... expect setting up Cpanel....
 
@Jacob Yet
 
that just means you have them all to come
 
@Jacob your blog is devoid of bloggery.
 
It is
 
8:49 PM
@Iain Congratulations on your civic duties, or whatever.
My only summons came through after I had moved out of state, and my parents didn't bother to fill out the "no longer a resident" form.
Then bit later the sheriff stopped by. Good times. :)
 
I reckon i'd just make crap decisions, or be consistently indecisive if ever given jury duty
And your verdict, Mr O'Connor? "Maybe.."
 
@TomOConnor Off with his head!
 
May he hang by the neck, from the gallows, till he be dead!
 
@TomOConnor only in the UK....
 
@Jacob No, we abolished death penalty in '73 I think
Before my time.
 
8:54 PM
I think hanging is still an acceptable punishment in a couple of states of the Union.
This ought to be interesting to look up.
 
I'm pretty sure we can still hang people for high treason
 
I'm not so sure about that.
 
Yup, Washington and New Hampshire.
 
Hmm I thought it was one of those laws that never got abolished
 
@BenPilbrow it got abolished (rewritten) in 1998
 
8:56 PM
Ah fair enough
 
@TomOConnor Wikipedia I presume?
 
Never really thought about committing high treason, so I've never really worried about the consequences :P
 
@BenPilbrow I tend to believe that the death penalty portion of High Treason might be the least of my worries :)
 
Naturally
Capital punishment in the United Kingdom was abolished in the 20th century. The last executions in the United Kingdom, by hanging, took place in 1964, prior to capital punishment being abolished for murder (in 1969 in Great Britain and in 1973 in Northern Ireland). Although not applied since, the death penalty remained on the statute book for certain other offences until 1998. Origins in English law Waltheof II, Earl of Northumbria was the only lord to be formally executed during the reign of William I of England. William Rufus re-introduced hanging but only for those found guilty of po...
 
dezth penalty was taken off the statute book in 1998
 
8:58 PM
How to get out of it... get into court and "Jury Duty?? I'll see the defendant HANG for this".
 
To quote -- "And with the passage of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998, the death penalty was officially abolished for all crimes in both civilian and military cases."
 
How do they choose Jurors?
 
I'll let you know
 
Are you allowed to liveblog / tweet the case as it goes on?
 
If it's anything like our system, then it will be a fair bit of horse-trading.
 
9:00 PM
summons to serve are random from the electoral register
 
can you decline politely?
 
nope
 
@Iain The US has rules about requesting to be excused. Not being able to reasonably take time off work, school, etc. Do you guys not have similar outs?
 
no - you can defer for up to 12 months but you can only do that once.
 
lame
Although, I suppose if their goal is to get a better cross-sample, that will do it.
 
9:08 PM
In the legal jurisdiction of England and Wales, there is a long tradition of jury trial that has evolved over centuries. History The English jury has its roots in two institutions that date from before the Norman conquest in 1066. The inquest, as a means of settling a fact, had developed in Scandinavia and the Carolingian Empire while Anglo-Saxon law had used a "jury of accusation" to establish the strength of the allegation against a criminal suspect. In the latter case, the jury were not triers of fact and, if the accusation was seen as posing a case to answer, guilt or innocence were es...
there's a long list of exemptions
this is my favourite "they regularly visit a medical practitioner for treatment;"
very vague.
Mr Allen Allenson was excused for having a recurring ingrown toenail.
 
they require documentary evidence of things like that
 
@packs At least in NY it's difficult to get said excuses.
 
9:42 PM
Hello, question about serverfault: why would I see a reply to one of my questions in my inbox but not see it when I go to the question page?
 
@NoahLavine The post was probably deleted
Either the user deleted it, or a moderator did because it was junk (i.e someone saying "I have this problem too")
 
@NoahLavine Maybe the answer was deleted before you could see it? If someone posted an answer and thought better of it, or a mod decided it was crap.
 
the answer was downchecked and the person who wrote it deleted it
 
Ah, thank you.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:08 PM
good evening
 
hi
 
11:41 PM
@voretaq7 Hearing about NY law, I'm not that surprised :) The only time I've been legitimately called up, I was still a student in the middle of the term. That one was rubber-stamped. Otherwise, jury trials are so infrequent in these parts that I've not run into it much.
 

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