The Ink Spot - 2015-11-20 (page 1 of 2)

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12:00 AM

I've accepted that the mods (all men) have fallen for the "oh I'm jsut some poor little girl that's being bullied" routine. And that's why Iv'e been abscent. Who knows may be when the site gets a female mod that can see through her mindgames or when she has an issue with a female member maybe THEN she'll be seen by the staff the same way some users are seeing her.

Until that time.. I just won't really be that active. And that's my choice... I'm not playing a victim. I can't correct a bad situation, so I'm choosing to not participate in it regularly.

I respect each of you save that one user. And I don't wish to be a problem or area of concern. Since it's not going to be solved on that end. I'll solve it for you. That's all.

That's a load of bull. Gender has no relevance. Your abrasive approach has been cause for concern long before go-meek arrived.

Now that's a load of bull. So clearly you think I'm the problem.. okay then.

You can be abrasive and blunt. That's no secret to anyone, and you've said so yourself.

My perceptions were correct. Thanks for confirming. Have fun with Go meek.

If you think gender has anything to do with it then your perception is beyond distorted. I'm honestly shocked to even read that. I've gone well out of my way to treat all parties equally.

2

12:07 AM

John.. read this... chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/31833/room-for-go-meek-and-ryan

It's an entire chat of her essentially stateing "The guys are bullies and ganging up on little old me" and the moderators stating "Yeah okay we'll look after you sweetie."

so to start off she brought up two of your comments she flagged for deletion but were declined, to which I said "I would have declined those flags too"

that baby gets thrown out with the bath water of course

in Room for go-meek and Ryan, 2 hours ago, by Ryan

So instead you bring up animations. All Scott then said was basically what I just said - what do animations have to do with anything

How exactly is me pointing out to her that you, Scott, were correct. And she was wrong. Me taking her side?

It's the entire chat Ryan.. what do I get??? "Stop or you'll be suspended!" yeah.. nothing there but my imagination.. okay..

Uh, where exactly did anyone say that only to you?

next Ryan criticizes go-meek for her incendiary comments against you, why is that not seen as defending you?

12:12 AM

I really am over this. Youv'e all made it clear that it's up to me to solve my issue with her. I can't expect her to change. And I'll CLEARLY be blamed as the catalyst whenever possible. That's fine.

Of course it's up to you. It's up to her too. What would you like us do? Suspend everyone? What does that solve?

I"m not angry. If anything I'm disappointed. Kind of feel I helped build this site only to be in a position that I must curb my participation becuase one user is so great and playing mind games.

John.. I have YET to see ANY MOD tell Go-Meek to STOP anything!!!!!!!!

in Room for go-meek and Ryan, 3 hours ago, by Ryan

and Offensive I'll say IS also when you refer to Scott as "Mr. Scott-American"

You all EXPLAIN and coddle and tell her HOW to post.. you don't ever tell her to stop being a freakin problem.. But you voice that to me INSTANTLY.

That's not tellign her to STOP

You threated suspension for me readily

Where did anyone tell you, and only you to stop?

12:15 AM

Yet.. you spend an afternonon explaining to her

we threatened suspension to everyone

there's a CLEAR difference. You all just aren't seeing it. That's fine.. And this is why I'm frustratoed.

seriously, I copy and pasted the same thing into both of those chats. I wanted to be sure you both were treated equally

It's not like I've been here for 4 years causing problems... but gee.. what.. 3 months in and she's alienating user afte ruser.. but yea EVERYONE deserves suspension.

I get JohnB's point...it's really hard to just start banning people. That said, I think Scott is making a valid point...if the mods could help with steering her line of commentary at times, it'd be nice. I get that that is a tricky thing to do and asking a lot.

12:17 AM

Stop explainign to her what she's doing wrong SHE KNOWS DAMNIT

@Scott she sent me the invite to the chat, not the other way around

the same wahy you don't explaint o me becuase I KNOW

not accusing you of starting hte chat ryan.. that's her game... help me I'm being victimized

and I asked her if I could invite both you and DA01 into the room. I was trying to be transparent when I posted that meta because You and Go-Meek both seem to think we're singling you out.

I know.. I'm not citing and issue with the fact that there WAS a chat.. it's her mind games in it.

She's pointing out my comment after my comment

and claiming I WAS THE SOLE PROBLEM and she's just a feable girl that doesn't understand

She fully understands guys.

and we told her you weren't

12:19 AM

seriously, quit with the gender bullshit.

John.. it's a valid point beucase SHE'S USING IT.

user image

Let me point something out, back when we had that private conversation with you long ago - we had the very same one and said the very same shit to her.

OK, so I just read through Go-meeks chat where she wanted to complain about Scott and I but not actually have a discussion with us.

"They're on ignore for me
Too annoying, noisy, stubborn, and not intellectually honest"

Sorry

We're not playing favorites or falling for anything. We're trying to resolve it so you all will calm down and get along

I'm not stating you all are mysiginysts or chuavanists at all, Please don't think I mean that. I mean she, as a female, is playign female mind games with a bunch of guys. Thats all

12:20 AM

So, at this point, I completely get where Scott is coming from.

I can assure you female mind games don't work on me

And I stand by my troll post--even if it was just a language barrier (though I'm pretty sure it's not that at this point).

Bull john.. I READ where they do

Where?

I'm not going to go trollign for a copy/paste

There's a reason I gave up a couple months ago and jsut started frequenting the site less

12:21 AM

If Scott and I have been "annoying, noisy, stubborn, and not intellectually honest" for the past several years, please ban us. We deserve it in that case. :)

Exactly DA

We are being made out to be some sudden problem... REALLY???

@DA. well two things regarding that "troll" comment. First off mods can't see edited comments. We don't even know if something is edited.

Which is perhaps an issue .... but the reality is two wrongs don't make a right. So justifying you calling her a troll because she said something first... it doesn't work that way.

"First off mods can't see edited comments" = yea, that doesn't help, for sure.

And to be clear, you can see where I said the very same thing to Go-meek

I'm called her a troll for a very specific comment. But would argue she is definitely acting like a troll.

That's not a personal insult.

12:23 AM

...you know it is.

That's an observation on her commenting and question asking style.

Look, my overall point is.. you HAVE to as mods take into consideration users that have been around for a number of years with high reputation standign when ONE new user is causing conflict with several of them. I'm not stating I'm speacial. All I'm stating is that I've BEEN HERE and not been an issue so why, in this setting am I see as an euqal to Go-meek. Yes that sounds egomanical, But I don't mean it that way. 

There's a way to tell someone that. You can politely say, "Hey you don't need to be saying..." well whatever the original was.

I don't consider "troll" an insult in the context of online chat rooms.

We may just disagree on that.

So, let me find a better term then

Her style of commenting has led me to believe she's often looking for a fight.

The problem here is not me or DA. It's her. How she comments. How she responds.. whether that's due to her "language' or personality is irrelevant

12:25 AM

What I thought was perhaps just a language barrier at first isn't really the case based on the conversation she was having with you.

It's her style for whatever reason and it's causing problems. That's all.

@Scott okay, but two wrongs don't make a right. Flag it, screenshot it if its a comment in case she edits it, but don't perpetuate it.

and, for the record, I don't want or need anyone banned. If things stay as they are, I'm fine with that too. But it sounds like she's adding a lot of drama for the moderators, so I'll leave that up to you.

It's not like I go around having issues with several other users. I never have. Yes there's a toss up every now and then, but it's not a constant repetative thing. It's constant and repetitive with THIS user becuase of THAT user not me.

and wish you luck :)

and thanks

12:27 AM

I just re-read that chat, I didn't see gender mentioned or even implied. If I missed it, please point it out

I do my best to not perpetuate.. honestly I do. But I'm not perfect

It's HOW she comments John

She comments like a girl?

You knwo hse's female.. she comments froma point of the scared puppy instantly playing on the male need to protect and defend. I'm not claiming you're somehow less than conscious at all. It's Psychology thing that many, many women play off of with men

I'm REALLy not meanign to state your less than a great guy, honest

It's head games a lot of women play.

We're putting an end to that gender accusation stuff. Don't bring it up again, that is such BS and honestly makes me feel really uncomfortable.

so.. chat for a discussion only you permit. Okay.

Nothing will be resolved.

See ya.

12:30 AM

I see it as offensive. You're making accusations based on her gender, accusations that I see as unfounded. That sort of talk is unwelcome here. That's not up for discussion.

I don't care if you see that as defending her or all women. That is crossing a line.

Accusations??/ I'm making observations.

Scott, siding with JohnB on that one. I don't see this having much to do with him/her. It's just clashing personalities in general.

Leave those observations to yourself.

okay then...

Pretty clear to me though

Perhaps the problem is you're reading so deep into everything she says (and she's doing the same to you)

12:32 AM

I'm really not readign deep into anything

I mean overanalyzing to the point you think gender is playing a role? Come on, that's just ridiculous

especially if she's posted it

Nope.. I skim at best

What got me riled up yesterday is the accusations hurled at DA.. which were identical to the accusations hurled at me when I had a disagreement with her.. and they are repeated each and every time,

so...

how about them Packers?

Anyway... I think you all are placing too much weight on ONE new users which is causing conflict with MULTIPLE long-standing users. and that new users is NOT being told sternly enough to quit being insulting.

Not a football fan.... :)

Or did you mean co-packers?

I think that's a nice summary, Scott.

I'm leaving it at that.

Trying to find another topic now.

I honestly don't know much about the Packers.

12:34 AM

yeah I think that's abotu as good as it'll get tonight.

Even though I'm from WI. :)

I've never been a sports fan

any sport

ANyways, gotta run. 5pm my time. Tomorrow's topic: Helvetica, is that still a thing?

As a small community, with delicate egos we're trying not to suspend anyone. I'll be very clear when I tell you Abby was brought in back when we had the private conversation. She said to suspend both of you after reading. We then, and now, are trying our best to avoid that.

My buddies will go on and on about basketball ro something and I jsut glaze over.

12:36 AM

I love hockey. I coach hockey. I play hockey. I couldn't name an NHL player playing today to save my life. My brain just never could handle the 'sports stats' thing.

Ryan.. just do it then. If I'm the problem, then fine. Otheriwise stop threatening. And maybe her being suspended will send the message she's failed to get.

heck I've already all but stopped participating.

Who's threatening?

Why do you see this as some personal attack on you? I don't get it.

I understand you don't want to suspend anyone. but repeatedly mentionign that suspesion is on the table, is indeed a threat. That's all.

I don't get how you read my conversation with Go-meek and think we're going easy on her. Or ooh we spent a whole afternoon talking to her. Well now we're spending our whole evening talking to you.

don't point the gun unless you're willing to pull the trigger. Heck I'll volunteer to be susepended if she is as well for the same period.

no.. your'e spending yoru evening sayign you treat everyone equally.

there's a difference ;)

12:40 AM

And me bringing up the suspension wasn't really about the suspension as much as being equal. Because you feel that at least a little some treatment should be given you as you've been here so long and never had issue before.

I'm not special. I don't mean that. I mean just the stats... and the number of users having an issue with one other user. That's all. If it was just me and her.. I accept that I may be the issue. And that's why I quit coming around as much in September.

All I'm trying to do is get you all to stop perpetuating things really. All of you. If something is bad, flag it, walk away. There's no SE Stand Your Ground Laws. You don't get to fire back and then say, well it was okay because of what so-and-so said

okay

but then.. well.. the meta posts come out.... which are targeted even if you don't think they are.

but okay.

anyway.. I'm off.. dont' think much was settled but we'll see.

have a good night guys.

Yay

you more or less good @DA. ?

like all meta posts, it'll gather dust and be buried in no time. Don't lose sleep over it

12:44 AM

Can I go buy a burrito now? I'm hungry

my ravioli has gone cold :(

Hello guys

hey johnp

teehee

i was gunna ask a question earlier but i kept checking what was going on...can't remember what it was now

Ill take DA. silence as a good. Burrito time!

12:45 AM

did I tell you my middle initial is P? You've really stolen my identity here

@johnp the answer is 42.

lol

My surname doesn't actually begin with a P

i got paranoid and changed it from f to ph then settled for p

oh so you're just being aggressive and without reason now

i'll answer to johnf also :P

I think I'll get over it

12:57 AM

Goodreads is a community of book reviews, recommendations and discussion. It came to life in December 2006, and was acquired by Amazon in March 2013

...nice. I always had a quick look at amazon reviews...but im just gunna ignore them anymore

my favorite kind of Amazon reviews are "Arrived broken. Buyer beware. ★☆☆☆☆"

hehe, i find that you can generally skip the first 2 amazon reviews to get down to the real buyers

I feel guilty for not leaving more myself since I rely so much on them

trying to decide what design books i wanna get next. tired of all the practical/basic stuff.

getting Amazon Prime was the worst decision for my wallet. That 2-day free shipping make everything impulsive

1:01 AM

yeah, actually. it never really occurs to me.

What about Goodreads? I'm a member but almost never use it

im a very impulsive/naive buyer :v so im trying very hard not to buy books lately. @Ryan amazon own it, id be curious as whether they manipulate reviews to sell stuff

books*

this quarter's category for my credit card's 5% cash back is Amazon.com too, that makes the justification even easier :\

I should've spent the extra for guac. This isn't going to fill me at all

Chipotle?

1:06 AM

Tijuana Flats

not sure they go that far north

nope, never heard of them

omg amazon owns imdb too...beginning to notice a pattern? lol

whoa, did not know that

1:40 AM

Comments on this answer are crazy

3

A: why canvas size show 1 mm different from chosen size?

Photoshop only deals in whole pixels when sizing the canvas. 12cm x 5cm = 340.157px x 141.732px. Photoshop is simply rounding each dimension to the nearest pixel.

@Ryan oh yea, I'm good. I can roll with it. Again, appreciate all you mods do.

1:59 AM

wow..

@scott.. Im calling BS on most of that.. I stayed out of the situation and kept an eye on it. Furthermore how can you say you were out of town when I looked at your activity and it still said you frequented the site. I thought you were taking another time down or busy. So for you to comment about "no one missed me" is messed up. You have always been welcome and it was obvious you still read the logs because you would hop in whenever your name was mentioned and you weren't pinged.

I'd like think we've known each other awhile but frankly EVERYONE involved has taken jabs at each other which is why I said what I said. I have no issue suspending Go-meek whatsoever but Ive tried to be diplomatic but you appear to think we are taking sides. She was given the benefit of the doubt for being new, we tried to take an equal approach for all sides but the mods are still getting sh*t for it.

Frankly, and Ill say it here, like I clearly pointed out to go meek I dont blame DA one bit, I thought I made that clear. Her approach was poor and it likely pissed DA and others off. I told her to stop. So again, not taking sides but to say what you said is F'd up.

2:39 AM

Howdy all (@Darth_Vader @JohnB @Ryan or whoever): we have this question on Physics that might be appropriate for migration to Graphic Design, but I'm not sure. You want it migrated?

0

Q: What would be the correct way to calculate saturation in this case?

I'm trying to make a HSV representation of the xyY color space. To calculate hue from an (x, y) color, I use the angle between that color and red (wavelength 745) on the xy chromacity diagram, with white (1/3, 1/3) as the center. The saturation is the ratio between the distance between white and...

I don't know if color spaces are enough of a focus here

@DavidZ why isn't it a good fit for physics?

because color spaces are not physics

this looks like a @joojaa question, our resident graphics engineer

ah.. sorry I wouldnt have known

if @joojaa approves it Im for migrating it over here

No worries. In general, most questions on human perception of color are not within the scope of physics, but not a lot of people know that.

Cool, I'll wait and see.

2:42 AM

I liked Physics so much that I took it twice ...and passed once. :)

:-P

That's probably the better way to do it anyway. I like to say you don't really learn any physics until a year after you cover it in class.

Anyway, if the question doesn't come here, I can also check with Stack Overflow and Computer Graphics (but they're in beta).

if not us then maybe SO? I know of at least one color calculating question stackoverflow.com/q/21835739/1832306

ah ^

It's not exactly a coding question either, otherwise I probably would have just migrated it there straightaway

actually Computer Graphics does seem to be the most fitting, do they accept migrations?

I can technically migrate it anywhere, even to CG. But it's recommended to avoid sending questions to beta sites, because if the site fails, the question is lost. I'd rather find a home for it on a graduated site if one exists.

But Computer Graphics is a definite option if it's not on topic elsewhere.

Migration is messy :-P

2:47 AM

okay, I'll remember to bug joojaa when he's awake and let you know

cool, thanks

3:03 AM

@Johannes hehe, that's me! what did you find crazy? i base my grids off point sizes cus i use a baseline grid+modular grid hybrid. so i go a little obsessive when calculating grids for fine typesetting :3

2 hours later…

4:47 AM

@DavidZ Computer graphics is more appropriate, but i have no qualms of moving ot here. @Darth_Vader im afraid this question does not have a good answer.

@johnp, just the amount of comments :p

@JohnB I can try to convince computer graphics to take it in. Its just that this is a bit hard to answer properly so it might take some time. Certainly the kind of qestions we would like to attract.

5:40 AM

@joojaa sounds like you're not really in favor of migrating...? I can ask the CG mods to weigh in

1 hour later…

6:58 AM

@DavidZ Its not that... it is just that theres no good definition of colorfu. The biggest problem is the magentas range which would have to work differently from the other ranges

So the theres no accurate answer. Even if there is a good answer it would nerd a batchelors degree worth of explanation

7:15 AM

Well, yeah, I figured if it's a bad question that would be a reason not to be in favor of migrating.

1 hour later…

8:21 AM

@DavidZ Its not a bad question. Its just a excedingly good question. That would require a OHD to define

8:46 AM

I guess I misunderstood you then

2 hours later…

10:49 AM

OHD == PhD, duh!

2 hours later…

12:49 PM

greetings this Friday.

hey Matt

happy Friday!

holiday next week.. should be a smooth week!

oh, nice!

want to play with SVG and halftones this weekend.. see if they can work together

what you got planned?

1:07 PM

a whole weekend of board games :D

My bridge club has its annual boardgame weekend. twenty board game nuts in a house in the middle of nowhere

Sounds like the pitch for a murder mystery.

hehe, Werewolves will be played, indeed

and hi @BESW

how's the haze?

[wave]

The haze is... not drifting my direction anymore, at least.

This weekend we get a typhoon instead.

Hopefully it'll move on quickly and my Geek Night won't get cancelled. Seems like the last four typhoons have all aimed directly at Saturday night.

@BESW that's rather meh

at least they blow away the haze :)

It also cancelled the conference I spent the last three days doing last-minute program design for.

1:17 PM

ack!

s'pose they will still pay for the work?

Yeah. It's more "postponed with new dates to be announced" than cancelled.

I'll have to re-build the program schedule and re-do the dates.

for extra pay? :P

heya @BESW and @Vincent

you all missed the firework laden popcorn party yesterday, you're lucky.

okay so maybe it was just me eating popcorn. Don't judge me!

@Ryan hey no hello for me?

man no love from a southerner.. how rude lol

your avatar had gone pale. Figured you were afk like johnb and joojaa and uh faheem

(I can barely see faheems when its pale)

morning @Darth_Vader !

1:32 PM

@Ryan morning!!

I think the mods just need to adopt teenage mutant ninja turtles names and avatars... that would be fun

@Darth_Vader next halloween? :P

would be problematic with copyrights tho :P

Johnb - Leonardo; Michelangelo - me; Donatello - Vincent; Raphael - ryan

shoot lets do it now

2:00 PM

I cleaned my desk. only a stepper motor and 2arduinos on it. I even have a brand new computer for the next 1.3 nonths

I can be splinter

@DA. I really like your submission to yesterday's challenge

dang appears Treehouse has a comment spam problem

that meta post by go-meek seems pretty random still

@ZachSaucier it is in the past please do not start that up..

2:15 PM

only 1 more class until Thanksgiving break! And I have another date today :D

nice and nicer!

@Yisela hello stranger!! We've missed you!

hello!

nice new Thursday Challenge submissions!

@Yisela hiya stranger! how have you been?

hi Ryan! good, but really crazy busy

discovering how maniac I can get when I do something I enjoy

2:21 PM

@Yisela! :D

@Yisela What are you up to?

just work, mostly

much more adapted to Germany, I really like it here

sweet

@Vincent didn't you play with search bar full width when clicked into before?

and trying some new design stuff.... I've mostly done interfaces and web, once in a while something for print. Now I'm trying campaigns

as more of an exercise really

@Yisela campaigns?

2:22 PM

@Darth_Vader yeah, my search bars usually expand when clicked on

advertising campaigns

hey hello there @Yisela

hi Vincent!

@Vincent how was the performance on mobile?

@Darth_Vader e.g. bakabaka.nl

pretty good imho

iirc

no, scratch that

2:24 PM

@Darth_Vader you can make them pretty performant

@ZachSaucier just looking for a solution for a responsive site..

@Darth_Vader Yeah, they work :) 2directit.nl

old ste, but the search form still works on my Android

@Vincent The portfolio is looking awesome!

@Darth_Vader if you have a minimal demo I'd be happy to help out

@Yisela on my own site? Thanks :D

2:26 PM

@ZachSaucier still working on trying to figure out how I want to build the search. its a minimal site for the holidays.

fair enough. I have a relatively open week so feel free to give me a message sometime :D

ok and thanks.

how's it goin everybody

maybe one of us should reverse our image horizontally @JohnB

:P

haha :D

I thought about changing it to an autumn-themed profile picture but I don't think I have a recent one

if I did find one I would probably be beardless

2:31 PM

@JohnB great. This weekend I will be playing with my new Cintiq 12wx

oooh lucky you

its very different

all I have is a dinky little Wacom Bamboo, a very old one

Same :D

Story of My Life (One Direction -- Piano/Cello Cover) - ThePianoGuys

I greatly dislike One Direction but this version is great

damn they put a lot of love into making this video too

2:35 PM

when that becomes a primary source of income they have the ability to :P

I heard it at a friend's dance performance which was surprisingly less artsy than I imagined it would be

only one dance was I like, "I have no idea what is happening - this isn't dance at all"

This was another one from the show I liked

Kid Cudi-Return Of The Moon Man (Original Score)

user image

is there some sort of law that if your YouTube channel name follows the format "The ____ Guys" then you have to use that font? :D

welcome @Rishab.Ag!

@JohnB Hola

2:53 PM

hi rishab

hey

3:27 PM

My redesign might not look like much compared to fancy designs for techie companies and such but wow is it crushing the stats. People are going much deeper in, more views of demo video, more dealer looksup, everything.

About the same number of visitors so far but better quality. Makes me happy

that's truly awesome and must feel very rewarding!

link?

(not actual link because last time I did that it then showed up as social link from SE in analytics which I'd prefer my boss not happen to see and wonder who i'm showing it to)

there's a trick to make links not links but I always do it incorrectly the first time

http:/\/google.com

I forget and give up

would a question regarding movie scores be on topic for the movie SE?

3:35 PM

I don't visit much there but I think they are pretty loose with their boundaries

I'll give it a shot :P

http:\//www.example.com/index.php

okay that works on posts but not chat or comments

so ignore me

0

Q: When are film soundtracks made?

At what point in the process of film creation are the soundtracks/scores usually made? I know that it varies from movie to movie a bit and that most all movies are edited after music has been added to fit with the music better, but how much in advance is this usually done? I'm curious if the com...

production soundtrack

3:54 PM

I'm at +2/-2 thus far

4:04 PM

Ayy, +3/-1 now thanks to an edit :D

@ZachSaucier any comments on the site? I know some of it doesn't work great on mobile yet

4:34 PM

@Ryan it's pretty standard and good. I might make the mobile menu links a little taller but that's the only thing that stood out that I'd change

1 hour later…

5:41 PM

@vincent! What's this answer bounty for? graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/63069/…

hey Vicki, how are you? and thanks for reminding me, wanted to put up a bounty today if its ready

49 more minutes before I can bounty :(

I'm good, Ryan, thanks! Swamped swamped swamped at work. But I love coming here for a break to think about other design-related things.

Can you only bounty once a day?

(also, how are YOU?)

> Reward existing answer
>
> One or more of the answers is exemplary and worthy of an additional bounty.

was the bounty reasoning

Have to wait for I think 24hr before a question can get a bounty

You can bounty up to 3 things at a time but the question I want to bounty hasn't passed the 24hr period yet

And I'm good

ahhhhh, I got it.

Thanks John B!

5:50 PM

0

Q: Export multi page pdf with gimp

I understand that it may be possible using imageMagicks: convert image.mng out.pdf however is there a gimp way of doing this? I also saw this script which uses convert: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzdkgv2f0jrbw6i/export-layers-to-pdf.py?dl=0 #!/usr/bin/env python # # Author: helour # Copyrigh...

See that's a borderline. Some would argue you'd ask your graphic designer such a question but to me it belongs on SuperUser

Oh interesting.

Why do you want to put a bounty on it?

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Nov '1520

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