Root Access

1:08 AM

ooh thats new

The bumble bundles now let you add games directly

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute it doesn't work that way

how, then?

@Sammy 0.0.0.0 is the default gateway, usually -- you're probably seeing the packet being routed to your default gateway, which then contacts 10.1.1.1. In other words, you aren't directly connecting to 10.1.1.1; it's hopping off your default gateway first then landing on 10.1.1.1 afterwards

just wag your tail and give her the sad eyes o doom

@JourneymanGeek 404: Tail not found

1:16 AM

(asking a dog for advice on girls is more useful than asking people advice on girls based on their computer skills)

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute It's not about "getting girls"; that implies that the goal in and of itself is to get the attention of some (any) girl. You should be choosy. By setting up for yourself some criteria of what kind of girl you want, and then ignoring every one until you find one that matches your criteria, you will please her when she learns of this (indirectly, not you telling her) because that means you chose her for a reason, not only because she's there.

And what it all comes down to is a practical arrangement that in some way enriches both your lives. But perhaps that is a bit too mature a concept for you

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@allquixotic Believe it or not, that criteria already exists. I also find a girl that represented that that image the closest, but I unfortunately so bad that I have countless regrets.

Probably will not find one again. You know as they say, you get one chance.

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute nonsense - there are many chances really.

it helps that your criteria will change with age :P

you get lots of chances

sometimes you'll mess things up

but there's many fishes in the sea.

1:25 AM

@allquixotic My criteria is more mature than most guys my age, believe it or not

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute and what age is that?

18

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute LOL

I'm not laughing at your age, just the fact that you have your whole life ahead of you and there is really no reason to rush it

What's an acceptable temperature for a haswell running full bore during a game that I shouldn't be worried about?

70c?

@JimmyHoffa 70C is "cold" these days for modern microchips

the new Radeon R9-290X can run reliably at 90C

1:31 AM

my GTX runs hotter than my haswell, but I thought GPUs should run hotter

all the same, I guess I have my bios alarm bell set too low.

CPUs are good at getting hot (and surviving) nowadays too

What should I set the warn/solid alarm/shutoff temps for?

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute there are 2% more girls than guys... + homo but that doesn't matter for now... the thing is that there is always choices for guys

@JimmyHoffa I actually think the new Radeon would be better at handling high heat than an Intel proc, so, I'd say shutoff at 90, solid alarm at 85, warn at 82

80C standing operating temperature should not measurably reduce the life of the CPU

hopefully you have decent ambient cooling of the air in the case overall though because motherboard components aren't able to get quite as hot as the CPU (especially the caps, VRMs, etc)

the hot CPU will radiate heat to nearby mobo components pretty fast if not controlled for using good airflow in the case over the motherboard

@allquixotic I have on 120mm case fan, I just need some molex-3 pin to toss in 2 90mm fans I have sitting here

1:35 AM

@JimmyHoffa those extra fans might lower overall temps, but if you're not hitting 80 at the moment, I don't think you are at any risk of damaging anything

case has solid ventilation, 2 120mm fan seats on the top to suck the CPU air straight up

80 would be my cutoff for mobo temps

Right now my alarm goes solid at 70. trying to play counterstrike for some reason is killing it (hadn't heard any alarms go off for any other games)

and 80 is pretty hot for HDDs so they need to be closer to environment temperature as well

@allquixotic They're further away

1:36 AM

@JimmyHoffa that's way too low... 70 is not even close to being a problem

you shouldn't even be getting a warning at 75

for non-benchmark scenarios, personally, to be on the safe side, I'd want to ensure that it doesn't go much beyond 75, though. you would expect to exceed 75 when running Prime95 or other CPU based stress tests

@allquixotic Simple girl, doesn't dress too tightly to get attention, friends with everyone, decent looking, good attitude. Is that too much?

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute YDIW. The thing to focus on is the dynamics of the interpersonal relationship you have with the other person. That's the kind of criteria you should be setting to determine who to go after. Not their external "passive" attributes that they espouse to everyone both partner and otherwise.

You would have to, you know, talk to them and get to know them and determine what kind of relationship you have with them. Do they take everything you give them and not give anything back, or are they always giving you things too? Do they seek you out for your attention and time, or do they only respond when you approach them? Do they forgive your mistakes or hold grudges? etc.

Most of the stuff you wrote is completely irrelevant and will have no bearing on the success of the relationship -- and you do want success, right? Because what's the point of bouncing in and out of a relationship if it won't be successful? You need to figure out how the interpersonal give and take works between you and the person you're dealing with, and determine if that is good for both of you or not.

You should also consider the things that you do that affect her, because even if her attitudes and behaviors toward you are desirable from your point of view, the reverse may not be true -- and for it to be truly successful and harmonious, it needs to work both ways

@allquixotic As you said, I need to talk first, which is the hard part. I probably lost a perfect girl because I wasn't able to talk. I am very shy. What prevents me from talking is the thought of what the person might think about me and if they will talk behind my back or I will become the subject of gossip.

You can't really change peoples' attitudes to become more of what you want (and conversely, other people probably will not be able to change your attitudes), so if you find that the interpersonal stuff is not working optimally, it's probably a bad relationship waiting to happen, even if she's, you know, "simple", "super-hot", "friends with everyone", etc

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute well it can be a little strange if the girls you are interested in have absolutely no reason to be talking to you for any reason, but it's pretty easy to put yourself in situations where they'd have a reason to acknowledge your existence and talk to you

The irony is that while I have friends, one of the most true friends that I have is a girl.

1:49 AM

good examples of possible working relationships with women: classmates, coworkers, people you meet in social situations (clubs, sports, spectating sports (fans), etc)

bad examples of social situations, where, attempting to get to know them might seem awkward: on a bus/train/plane and randomly see someone who looks nice; in public places (grocery stores, train stations, Panera, internet cafe, library, etc)

choose situations where you and the person are both there for a common purpose and do so "regularly" on some kind of a schedule

I understand, but this is all assuming that I hit a home run on every opportunity I get to talk to a girl and you're completely putting aside the "shyness," "nervousness" and other factors.

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute no, I'm really not... I had/have the same attributes in bounds. of course, shyness will lock you out of other opportunities unrelated to romance, so it's probably a good idea to overcome that somewhat... you might miss out on business, academic or social opportunities which themselves could be a means of either, getting to know that person, or someone else entirely

plain inability to talk to strangers at all is a bit worse than mere shyness, and is kind of a showstopper :P

it's (unfortunately for people like us) a generally held fact about society, at least Western society (I have no idea where you live), that people who are more openly social are more likely to get better opportunities at "stuff" -- job offers, business relationships, fun social gatherings, blah blah, .. and romantic partners

you don't have to be social with the intent of getting laid, just be social for its own sake, just to see what other people are up to

if they ask you why you are like that, just say you're impulsively curious (and if you're actually living this type of socialization, you will be genuinely curious about people, and ask them what you want to know)

nobody seems to have a problem with that answer :P

As I said earlier, I am a simple guy. I am not even looking for boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, just some good friends. My intent is not to get laid. That, and the other stuff that kids at this age usually do (drugs, alcohol etc.) holds me back even more.

2:21 AM

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute: that simplifies things a bit

just act yourself.

@allquixotic never works ;p

and I need a new dremel

@Gowtham: works perfectly for me.

;p

And that's probably because I never look:P

@allquixotic oh, are we Relationship Advice again? :P

No

Just friendship and personality advice.

2:33 AM

@Bob it's really ironic that he is advising everyone on relationships :P

@Gowtham: most of that is common sense.

sigh I don't even need advice on relationship. I don't even want one. It's too much of a hassle, restrictions and other nonsense. I'd rather be good friends and enjoy.

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute: you can distill everything in life to "live like a dog" and "everything is like cookies"

oh

"and when in doubt, assume it acts like a cat"

so, be social, talk, be friendly. How people act towards you is a reflection of how you act towards others.

having to spend time with one girl all the time whether you like it or not? Having to be with one girl everywhere? Please no.

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute: You're overthinking it

2:43 AM

Anyone know if it's possible to use the Windows 8 ('metro') mode in Chrome Canary?

2:54 AM

no

metro mode can only be used with the default browser. Canary cannot be the default browser. Thus by ~~induction~~ common sense thing laws, that is not possible.

@JourneymanGeek that's deduction, not induction

Modus Tollens actually

P -> Q; ~Q; therefore ~P

there.

P = browser X can become the default browser
Q = browser X can be used in metro mode
X = canary
Q(X) is false
P -> Q
therefore ~P

What's the limitation around everything else but the default browser?

@WasabiFan it's simple: Metro always launches the default program for any media type or mime type

the ways to start a browser in metro mode involve basically navigating to an http url by opening the default metro program that processes http urls

so you have to set the desired browser as the default browser to get metro to launch it when it tries to open URLs

i don't know why Canary can't be the default browser though, but maybe jmangeek can tell me

3:01 AM

I see... but doesn't Chrome use the Windows API to make itself metro-ish? Why does it matter that windows recognizes it?

I can do it in the stable build of Chrome even though it's not default...

@WasabiFan not sure there, might have something to do with chrome using Microsoft's HTTP stack

Canary can be the default browser if, and only IF, no other Chrome browser branch is installed (ie you can't have any, stable, dev, or beta build of chrome if you want canary to work as default)

Really? Does that mean that if I uninstall regular Chrome it will work?

Q: How can I set Google Chrome Canary as the default browser on Windows 8?

3:29 AM

nope

I don't have stable, dev or beta installed

it'll still tell you its a secondary installation and can't be made default

5

Normally, Google Chrome Canary cannot be set to be the system's default browser - it shows the following message in its settings: This is a secondary installation of Google Chrome, and cannot be made your default browser. They have good reasons, but nevertheless I want to use it as my defau...

registry editing might but meeeeeeeh

I strongly disagree with mucking with the registry

nuuu my favourite source of local news is down :/

I just bought my brother's dremel

4:19 AM

@JourneymanGeek I wonder how high throughput you could achieve if you used a registry entry of type binary, or hex, or string (not sure which would be faster) for IPC between processes >_>

probably dreadful, knowing how slow the windows registry is

4:38 AM

@allquixotic: NO. JUST NO.

5:02 AM

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@JourneymanGeek hahahahaha

Google's search DB = Win32 registry

....on Windows 95

Psycogeek

5:37 AM

Ahh haloween, all fun and games, but put a real dead zombie on the front porch, and nobody wants to get near it anymore, between the stench and the flies.

Its not so pretty now is it kids :-)

Regarding my earlier question about Canary; I heard that they were adding a full-featured (if buggy) Chrome OS-like interface in place of the metro mode. Is this true? If so, how can I test it out?

5:55 AM

did chrome come out with a proper mui interface yet?

or is it still that stupid clone of the desktop interface?

What do you mean? They added a way to run the exact same browser as on the desktop in a metro frame. They then (I think) modified that metro version to make it full chrome OS

You can check it out on Win 8 from the menu in the coner of chrome

10:42 AM

@WasabiFan yes, that's not what I call proper

the desktop interface does not work on MUI

it was a ridiculous hack that looked quite stupid

in the realm of "why would you even do that?"

11:06 AM

The option does nothing for me

Sammy

12:29 PM

@Gowtham Interesting observation! :)

Boris_yo

12:50 PM

@Sammy What's up Sammy?

1:02 PM

Although I have never used Verizon and do not expect to do so in the foreseeable future, I have to make an argument for their bloatware

Verizon has the best network among all wireless service providers

A lot of their money comes from these apps

The only other option is to charge more than their already steep prices for their wireless service, but since consumers can't accept even higher nominal subscription costs, they have to get around it

They have to charge consumers in ways that aren't immediately visible to them

It's sad that consumers have to be "coaxed" in this manner to pay more, and I do feel it is deceptive

...but without it, Verizon would not have the nation's largest 4G LTE network by far.

It's the price you pay for top-quality service.

Operating a world-class wireless network is far more expensive than you think. Without this bloatware, Verizon would probably only be about as good as AT&T.

That's why they refuse to allow outside, non-certified devices on their network--even though it violates net neutrality rules. buzzmachine.com/2013/09/17/verizon-caught-red-handed

I hate to defend a business model that hurts consumers, but it really is the only economically viable way to build such a fast, reliable network.

Ping me with any opinions.

@DragonLord That's making the assumption that they're providing the service at a loss.

Or at least the profit margin was abysmal.

The rate of network growth is probably limited by the amount of money they make

@DragonLord From what I've heard (not American, really don't care much), they've had gov grants and not even filled those terms yet.

I'm not saying they they're actually losing money, but I'm saying that the extra revenue goes into expanding the network at a rate faster than its competitors.

Eh, @allquixotic would give you a good discussion about Verizon :P

1:17 PM

@allquixotic, ping me on your opinion as to whether Verizon's smartphone bloatware is needed to maintain or expand the #1 wireless network in America. I've got to go.

2:00 PM

@DragonLord Well, as of Android 4.2, and Verizon hasn't disabled this feature in their new phones, you are allowed to "Disable" built-in bloatware, which prevents it from running... without even rooting your phone. You could argue that they are willingly shooting themselves in the foot because the amount that app vendors will pay will be reduced if they know that users can just tap disable to make it go away.

A "disabled" app is still in the NAND, but it never launches, and it doesn't show up in the launcher, which is as good as TitaniumBackup freezing an app, but without needing to root. It seems like Verizon (or at least Google, thank the heavens) are trying to add features to address users' common needs to root, so that eventually nobody will even WANT to root.

@allquixotic o pshaw, bloatware is awesome. I love how when you try to get driving directions on an AT&T phone it automatically launches AT&T navigator and flashes a wall of text you have to hit OK to which most people surely never read that says "until the end of your contract your ass is paying 10$ a month if you hit ok, sucka!"

@DragonLord Actually, Verizon used mandatory phone service taxes collected in many democratic states, as well as federal funds for PSTN (landline) maintenance, to build out the 4G LTE network. The amount of their own capital that they spent on it is much less than you think. In large part, the Verizon 4G network was funded by taxpayers.

...weather's not cold enough...

Sad thing is, the taxes that were being collected on landline phones were intended to pay for next-generation internet, like FiOS. But the deployment of FiOS is only a small percentage of what Verizon originally promised/agreed to, and many suburban and even urban areas will never get coverage, because Verizon has permanently stopped rollout of FiOS, forever & ever. If you don't have it now, you'll never get fiber to the premises.

Instead, we get extremely restrictive data caps and insane fees for even a modest amount of data on LTE. The coverage is good, but remember, granny who only has a telephone and a TV set (with no cable, no computer, no internet connection) pays extra money on her telephone bill every month, and that funds... Verizon execs' paychecks? Because the money they're not spending on LTE rollout is just gravy.

Regulatory capture

Regulatory capture is a form of political corruption that occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special concerns of interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called "captured agencies". Theory The general economic concept where interest groups with disproportionate amounts of power shape public policy traces its roots back to the writ...

@allquixotic I refuse to ever have a verizon product after trying to get a quote from them the sales guy over the phone said I needed to give an address and name and such so they could give me an accurate quote; seems not unreasonable, then moments later tells me "The order is in and an installer will be there on wednesday", then when I told him I didn't ask for an order he said don't worry it'll be fine, I asked him for a manager and he hung up on me.

2:07 PM

that wiki article pretty much sums it up

Had to get a hold of someone in a different department to have them cancel the order to ensure I didn't start getting bills

Considering they'll hire people to behave that blatantly fraudulently, I refuse to ever entertain another verizon product whatsoever.

@JimmyHoffa wow -- that's pretty extreme -- this is why I use VoIP and record it to an MP3 whenever I deal with customer service over the phone; if I were treated like that, I'd have thrown the MP3 on a server and carpet bombed Verizon's C*O email address list with "do you guys really condone this??" and probably would've gotten an immediate cancellation, firing of that sales rep, and money for my trouble.

the consumerist has some awesome stories (true ones) about people who carpet bombed the Verizon C-level executives (and other companies too, not only VZN) with very cordial, detailed, well-written, but firm emails expressing their dissatisfaction, and usually some very high-level manager or director calls them on their phone within hours and asks what they can do to help resolve the situation, and they're usually willing to go the extra mile.

the only -- and I mean ONLY reason I am still with Verizon Wireless is that they've allowed me to keep my grandfathered unlimited data plan... considering that their coverage is still the best in the country, and unlimited data always comes with extremely bad "gotchas" on other networks that even offer it at all, I'm basically locked in. And they know it.

@allquixotic I would think it's pretty extreme too, but then last time I had to transition services I pleasantly had similarly scammed up behaviour from people. It's just sad that not only are company's willing to actively try to screw people, but that there are so many folks immoral enough to commit these jobs. I would eat from a garbage can before I tried stealing from a hardworking citizen's pocket..

if Verizon were to cancel my unlimited data, I would immediately switch carriers just on principle, even if I didn't necessarily get a better deal from another carrier. I'd just refuse to give them another penny, ever, for life.

and there are a lot of people who still have unlimited data and would do exactly the same

they make a lot of money on us, honestly, because most of us who keep unlimited data are paying $700 retail out of pocket for new phones every year or so

@allquixotic Like you said then, they know it's the only reason you're still there

2:14 PM

The question is why do you (as in everyone) need unlimited data? Is it worth the $700-$900 you spend to buy each phone at its normal price just so you can get unlimited data?

@JimmyHoffa heh, then there are services like Sirius XM, where the service is fantastic, until you want to cancel -- there are hilarious phone call recordings online of people saying "Cancel my account." "Please cancel my account." "No, I just want to cancel." for ~15 minutes before the rep will actually process it... and sometimes they lie, don't process it, and you have to call back and try again

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute What he does with his data is his business, and to be entirely frank, I don't think we want to know what he does with all those lucious bits and bytes O_O

@AGirlSaidMySmileIsCute yes, because I don't have any home internet connection... I have no landline... so the expense that you're paying for your landline is $0 for me... my internet bill is $44.99 per month, plus retail price for phones whenever I choose to upgrade

@JimmyHoffa "you" wasn't supposed to be literally him. It's in general.

I bet I use less data in a month than most of you here, on your primary internet connection I mean

2:16 PM

@allquixotic Yeah, I used to go to a gym that's currently in a class action suit for not canceling people's memberships when people went through all the hoops possible, that's why I avoid setting up auto-pay for any service I buy like the plague.

I download OS updates; Linux ISOs; lots and lots of software for programming; games; I watch youtube, netflix, MLB TV.... I go through a ton of data... but still probably less than most people who have cable or FiOS

and the latency is as low as DSL nowadays because there's no stupid 90s-era low level data protocol on LTE... aside from the OFDMA and SC-FDMA radio protocols, the very next layer in the networking stack is... native IPv6

so it's perfectly suitable for multiplayer games

How do I create an icon shortcut for a command on Fedora 19?

I doubt you know the answer, Clippy.

@allquixotic I'm back on DSL after ~10 years away on cable, DSL is actually nice finally... It only took them a decade but hey

@ThatHelpVampireGuy: I THINK that might depends on your DE

@JourneymanGeek Gnome 3

2:19 PM

@JimmyHoffa still, their greed might get the better of them if they imagine the money they could make charging me $10 per gigabyte of data, which is their standard going rate for "limited" data plans

@ThatHelpVampireGuy you need to create a .desktop icon...

they might think that they'd be able to keep me as a customer after canceling my unlimited data because I want to keep my phone, and my phone is carrier locked

@ThatHelpVampireGuy: stackoverflow.com/questions/12570662/… maybe?

well I got news for ya buddy -- the Nexus 5 is damn nice and I'd grab one in a heartbeat and move to Sprint or something if Verizon snubbed me.

@allquixotic: carrier locking is... something I think is silly.

2:20 PM

and not another penny was earned by Verizon from the allquixotic household

not to mention we could be like "pretty please Comcast, just replace the damn faulty coax line for us; if you do that, we'll buy your most expensive TV and internet package and be friends forever <3" and then we have a "normal" landline back, and my need for OMGnormous amounts of data over LTE goes away, and I could actually sign up with Sprint and be OK

@allquixotic More likely they'd make the change without notifying anyone, and let people drop off as they notice it on their bills which would mean they'd make beau coup bucks for a few months off all those people before they all vaporized. But short term gains is what it's all about these days. Besides after they got rid of you guys they'd free up a bit of bandwidth which they could start selling as their premium-layer while increasingly throttling everybody not paying for the "premium bandwidth"

@allquixotic: I do wonder how long the telephone and other things that really are legalised rackets can go on

@JimmyHoffa nah -- I have the My Verizon widget on my home screen that tells me my data allotment; as long as it says "UNLMTD" Verizon Wireless is my family's exclusive cellular carrier; as soon as it changes, I'm gone with the wind

@Braiam I have a folder with 4 .desktop icons from when I used Unity on Ubuntu. With Unity I'd just drag the .desktop files to the Unity Dashboard and they'd get stickyed. With Fedora Gnome I dunno what to do

also, Verizon is contractually obligated (per the contract terms of the LTE band they bought from the FCC in the 2008 auction) to notify customers 90 days in advance of a mandatory contract change, and customers have the choice of opting out of the service and not paying any disconnection fees if they disagree with the change

2:24 PM

@ThatHelpVampireGuy I have gnome 3, and you have to install them in a share/applications directory

These internet connection talking is making me utterly jealous.

@allquixotic It'll never change, they'll just add a fine print stipulation to a fine print stipulation that for a small segment of their customers redefines "Unlimited" to mean "Highly improved premium" which is classified in another fine print section (this one you have to make a mail-in request to receive; expect 4 to 16 weeks for shipping and you have to send postage with your request) that says "highly improved premium" is Unlimited up to 4gb, and $25 (extra for Premiumness) for every gb after.

There's only 3 DSL providers in the entire city. All of them sell only plans where you have to pay for either a landline, or a TV combo, or whatever. The internet pasrt is at least $60~70, plus of course wht you pay for the rest.

@JimmyHoffa they've already lost one court battle and paid millions in fines and damages for claiming "unlimited" when it was really "5 GB"... do you really think they want to risk it again, when there's precedent of them fighting to the death and losing in court over the exact same issue?

I never believe any "unlimited data plan" equals as "I can download the world, twice"

2:26 PM

ALSO, none of the 3 offer access on my area. I mean, they do, but not for me, My neighbours get it, I don't

You'll get a $600 bill one month, when you call and complain about your Unlimited plan they'll repeatedly assure you that you plan is "Unlimited" and that your complaints are unfounded but that bill is the "aggregate of your usage" and you are required to comply with the billing or else you will be given Premium fees (extra for premiumness)

@ThatHelpVampireGuy: we have 3 sets of infrastructure and maybe a dozen ISPs in a very small country ;p

has a grandfathered 12gb plan :/

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@JimmyHoffa Oh, the Orwellian Unlimited. VERY VERY VERY common here. Standard business practice.

if I switch to 4g, it turns into a 2gb plan

2:27 PM

@JourneymanGeek What's "grandfatehred"?

@JimmyHoffa nonsense -- there are stories all over the internet of someone unwittingly losing unlimited when they bought a new subsidized phone; racking up enormous data charges; and getting them severely reduced or dropped entirely after explaining the situation to Verizon and how they were unaware of it

@allquixotic Do you think that battle cost them more than they made? That's the problem with all these corporate fines for wrong-doing: You'd have to put the company in a serious bad place financially with the fine for them to even give a shit.

@ThatHelpVampireGuy: its an old plan that isn't offered any more

I'm not sticking up for VZW -- by no means do I think they are a scrupulous company -- but they're not stupid, and they recognize the need for positive PR, and avoidance of negative PR

but they will keep me on it until I recontract

2:28 PM

we have 3-4 mayor ISP (the only that has any 'landline') and the cost for 1Gbit/256Mbit are as far as 20 bucks mothly... without the line costs...

(that said, stuff like google fiber and muncipal ISPs probably keep american ISPs late at night)

@Braiam Oh, it works! :D

Thanks! :D

@JimmyHoffa fact is, the amount of negative PR they'll get blasted with for doing something as anti-consumer as that (again, mind you) is so great that even the greediest of the greedy wouldn't want to do that... it'd be suicide

especially because some of their competitors are trying their darndest not to be evil, and Americans are so eager to call a random CEO or CFO "Darth Vader" that they'll be emotionally and morally fulfilled in switching to a competitor... they really do fear pissing off the public

@JourneymanGeek Wait, what's it doing on SO? O_o

also, the difference between Verizon's coverage and their competitors' is closing as competitors build out their networks and Verizon's mostly stagnates

so the "you have to use Verizon because it's the only one that gives you any coverage" argument is fading rapidly

at home I know I could get Sprint, T-Mobile or AT&T if I really wanted to, and would have just fine 4G speeds in my bedroom

2:32 PM

@ThatHelpVampireGuy no idea ;p

@JourneymanGeek Ah, I flagged for migration to SQA

@JourneymanGeek no they don't -- municipal ISPs maybe, but google fiber is such an elitist product, by an incredibly elitist company, that it will never see widespread deployment... 99.9% of the old guard's customer bases are completely safe from any sort of google fiber invasion

@allquixotic: more the idea that someone who is not a baby bell can lay out infrastructure

granted, anyone in the former third world can tell you that ;p

there are fewer houses wired up to google fiber (even if you look ahead to the distant year 2035) than the number of .cs files I've authored in my relatively short programming career

(and the big arguement for the sad state of US ISPs is "it costs a lot to do infrastructure!")

2:35 PM

that's basically only for Senators and Google employees

forgetting there's a lot of places that have managed it

@JourneymanGeek I'm in a "third world" and I can assure that, in 2009, about 80% of internet access was made from cybercafes in the country.

@allquixotic: or people in one or two large cities

@JourneymanGeek well the US is a much larger and more sparsely populated country than most, with the main problem being suburban sprawl

@ThatHelpVampireGuy: "former third world" I was thinking the wierd little ethernet ISPs, and ghetto-style cable TV channels.

2:36 PM

the cost vs profit ratio of deployment of a landline network is directly related to areal population density

@Braiam how do I put "mono whatever.exe" on a .desktop file?

It's not working

@allquixotic Have you heard about their cloud-net ideas? That shit is crazy. No, crazy. They're basically deciding to put their eggs in the Dude-Who-Thinks-Goose-Races-Make-Sense type of nutjob basket

there is an enormous percentage of US citizens over an extremely large land area where the profit ratio is extremely unfavorable, but there are enough citizens overall who live in those areas and want good internet that it's a big public policy issue

@allquixotic: but if say, some small suburb decided to have their own ISP, the big ones will basically do everything they can to fuck things over.

the UK actually has a town that did that

@JimmyHoffa: funny thing that. Nutbaskets occationally accidentally hit on cool ideas

@ThatHelpVampireGuy you need full path in the exec=, here's some examples

2:38 PM

@JourneymanGeek I didn't say it wasn't a cool idea, I said it was crazy.

Basically, IF the US population were organized as: <1% in rural areas in the middle of nowhere, and >= 99% living in extremely densely packed cities, we wouldn't be having this discussion; only farmers would have problems getting decent internet

@JimmyHoffa: they also invested in a kite-power company, on the condition they have at least 3 crashes.

but because hundreds of millions of US citizens live in suburbs where landline internet is very costly to deploy and takes a long time to get ROI, these people will probably never get anything better than DSL

(I happen to live in the suburbs)

wait, wasn't the Fiber thingy extreamally cheap and the only real "cost" is the light-to-data converters?

@Braiam the cost is digging up the god damn ground and shoving the cables in, in a way that some idiot with a shovel can't knock out an entire block's internet connectivity

and then fixing the concrete or pavement you dug up

2:40 PM

@allquixotic: you can make the same arguement for roads.

and.... you guys have loads

@Braiam mono /home/user/Programas/keepass-2.23/KeePass.exe works on the CLI, but Exec="mono /home/user/Programas/keepass-2.23/KeePass.exe" doesn't work on a .desktop file :(

@ThatHelpVampireGuy use FULLPATH!

@JourneymanGeek well, exactly, but roads have become public infrastructure! I think what needs to happen is that the internet infrastructure needs as tight government regulation as the electricity and water industries, with taxes to accompany

/usr/bin/mono or whatever

@allquixotic: which, amusingly, is sort of what we did.

(well government builds it, then spins it off)

2:42 PM

> whereis mono

> mono: /usr/bin/mono /usr/lib/mono /etc/mono /usr/share/man/man1/mono.1.gz

all I'm saying is, I think the US handles electricity and water supply rather well all around, because you don't get gouged and you can basically consume whatever you want and you know the cost will be manageable, etc

Which one?

if they could only handle internet the same way, and enact a law to require supply of fiber internet to every house...

@ThatHelpVampireGuy you should use type mono

@allquixotic This is the only reason phone lines run rurally, there's just not enough appetite for "evil regulation" in this country

2:42 PM

@Braiam no, the right command is which mono

@allquixotic: and there's nothing stopping you running your own little generator (environment laws notwithstanding) or collecting rainwater or reusing greywater

@JimmyHoffa there are a lot of people who want the government to go away entirely -- when the furlough happened, I heard people around here saying things like, "well good, if they're non-essential, we don't need them anyway"... they really have no idea what they're talking about

@allquixotic That's not completely true. Electricity was an absolute fucking mess when I lived in Pittsburgh, but then again everything's an absolute nightmare there.

you wouldn't even need to require supply of fiber ethernet to the home, just the provision of trunk to any place with a certain minimum population density

(which in our case, was an apartment building)

@JimmyHoffa yeah, but they didn't charge you $10 per kilowatt, did they? that's the equivalent of what Verizon charges for data.

2:44 PM

Works! Thanks @Braiam and @allquixotic.
(weirdly I can't use `"` on the path)

and it costs about 300 dollars, non subsidised to hook up a house

@allquixotic The whole time I was there I paid 3-4 times the gas and electrical that I had ever paid anywhere before (or since)

frankly, I would actually be okay with going with a limited (pay as you go) data plan, IF the prices were low enough, and guaranteed not to go beyond a certain level by government regulation

Q: Why not use "which"? What to use then?

41

When looking for the path to an executable or checking what would happen would you enter a command name in a Unix shell, there's a plethora of different utilities (which, type, command, whence, where, whereis, whatis, hash...). We often hear that which should be avoided. Why? What should we use ...

shell history which portability

what would I consider to be fair? well... how about 25 cents per gigabyte? download Ubuntu; give Verizon a quarter (or 20 cents, whatever, close enough)... watch an episode of Breaking Bad, give Verizon 50 cents.

2:45 PM

@allquixotic: what we do here is cool

What to use instead of which? Witch, obviously. — Jimmy Hoffa 6 secs ago

I'm definitely not willing to pay my entire monthly Netflix fee -- twice over -- to watch one freaking episode

...I can't be helped...

you have a certain amount of free data, and they charge you up to an amount

so it wouldn't be cheaper for me to go past my free data, and hit the capped amount, than to go unlimited

@JimmyHoffa sometimes I hope Stephan writes a tl;dr version of his answers... really

2:47 PM

but I wouldn't be charged for the whole amount I end up using - In my case, its not more than, IIRC 30 dollars over my base bill, but newer plans are 90 dollars

@JimmyHoffa that sounds like a supply and demand issue -- or perhaps local or state regulation -- but power is a complicated problem because things like nuclear tend to be a more stable (price-wise) thing than coal or gas or diesel based power, where the price is based on supply

and is why in way of development countries are still fked up... I live in one

there really isn't much variability in the cost of delivering internet to a given area, except for the potential profits that can be reaped which are a function of the areal population density

@allquixotic It was local, and it wasn't supply and demand, it was just part and parcel of the culture there: That whole area froze in time circa '65, they still pay as though electrical and gas are as expensive as back then because it's the exact same completely un-improved inefficient infrastructure, which they barely maintained.

but you can still do long runs of fiber and hook up to one of the tier 1s pretty easily without many engineering problems, and the energy costs aren't too bad either

@JimmyHoffa well, Pennsylvania does tend to be a rather Republican state on the whole, and Republicans since the 60s or so have been very anti-infrastructure, anti-regulation, so that's not difficult to understand

2:50 PM

@allquixotic You had to pay your bills by mail-in-check, they didn't offer phone or online payment except through the collection company if you were late, they required mail-in-cancelations, the whole place is just frozen in time

@JimmyHoffa heh... we have to pay our water bill by mail check, but everything else is automatic electronic payment and/or online HTTPS one-off payments

@allquixotic Nah I understand it, it just blew. It was a mess and goes to show that not the entire country is getting electrical right. It's like you said, anti-infrastructure: They didn't have sidewalks throughout the majority of the area and very very few parks

@JimmyHoffa Penn is also very pro-industry and pro-business; businesses don't want to pay taxes to maximize profit; ergo, you live there, you make potentially good wages (unless the bosses want to keep all the money and give the worker bees nothing), your house and community are shite, but at least the company is profitable

But they have major government corruption issues throughout PA so there's just a whole melting pot of wrong out there, my point was simply we aren't always getting electrical right

go figure :/

@JimmyHoffa heh... Maryland is one of the most renowned pseudo-socialist states in the US... we're not quite as democratic among the voter population as, say, New York or Massachusetts (especially on the Eastern Shore where many conservatives dwell), but recent state administrations are effectively socialist :P

relative to our population and GDP, we have a very, very well-funded public transportation system, including also state highways, bridges and overpasses, trains and subways

2:55 PM

@allquixotic Yeah, I'm just glad to be back home in Colorado, where level heads prevail and the citizenry thinks through things..

gay marriage is legal; gambling is legal; the only thing Maryland seems afraid to tackle is internet regulation :|

@JimmyHoffa that's pretty neat that Maryland is right there with Colorado

@allquixotic That has to be done at the federal level.. it won't work anywhere else, and any attempt at the state level would be a state-funds sink because the company's they'd be working against have legal departments with greater funds than any single states

@JimmyHoffa what percentage of the working-age gainfully-employeed citizenry in Colorado work for the government in some capacity? (as contractors, or directly for local, state, or federal agencies)