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12:08 AM
hey hen you ever heard of symptoms such as this, you hut the power button of a desktop, to be greet by the fan cutting in and out (without stopping) the disc drive light continually flashes as at the same intervolt as well as the monitor and processor indication light flashing on and off at the same time
@Hennes
 
parsing
From power off to that state ?
 
yes
 
My guess is power up fails, either power_good is not asserted or somewhere during POST something fails and the system gets restarted.
 
here's the real kicker, it only happens if the computer is cold, if you put in a warm room, or blow a hair drier (don't ask how that came about) in through the side panel vent for a minute, it starts up normal
 
If you have a replacement PSU or motherboard, try that.
 
12:13 AM
although if it cools down to far, it crashes and starts that again
hhmm, I don't think it's a hardware issue
 
I am behind a desktop with a similar HW problem. Added more memory 2 years ago, afterwards it power on-off-on-off.... And after a few minutes it succeeds.
 
it happened a while ago, I still got all my information I gathered from when it happened, but it happened after installing a windows defender update
 
It needs much more tries in the winter
 
hey
that's exactly my case to
stuck another gig stick in and couple months later after the update that
 
(tried without expenansion cards and without RAM. I have no spare CPU or spare PSU
Happens with all memory DIMM combinations.
 
12:15 AM
here's the real kicker of the update bit
 
On board diagnostics have a two letter display which end in a code not in the list of known error codes
 
at first after the update, the issue only happened with usb drives plugged in, after making the fatal mistake of going to microsoft for help and "updating" defender again, the issue got worse
now if a ethernet cord gets plugged in it automatically restarts
hence, the usb ethernet adapter I spoke of the other day
 
Mine has been stable for 2 years now, except during power up.
 
wish still had the restore point, at first i restored to before the update, it started u[ no problem
up*
 
Sanitycheck: Is your PC earthed?
And is you ethernet wire shielded or unshielded?
 
12:18 AM
then I forgot to turn auto update off and it happened again, except it somehow rid me of the restore point
earthed, you mean groud
f
grounded*
correct
in which case, yes
 
nods
 
and last I checked all generic brand thernet cables were shielded
ethernet*
 
One reason plugging in a network cable can cause problems is a ground-loop.
 
damn I hate this netbook keyboard, almost tempted to pllug in my usb keyboard
 
Uh no. Shielded as in STP.
All are twisted alright, not all have a shield which connects to the plug
 
12:23 AM
pretty sure it is
 
Shielded foiled Twisted pair (SFTP), as wikipedia calls it.
 
I can see that, wikipedia is open on my end too
 
Notice the metal around the plugs
 
let me check to make sure
yeah no not shielded
none the less the fact that this issue never occurred till the defender update leads me to believe no matter what I do to the hardware, the software will be the issue
 
If it happens before POST there is not (windows) software running
 
12:28 AM
thing is now, even if I detach the drive, the issue doesn't happen as bad, but just once at start, as long as I warm up the tower a bit before I start another OS installed on a different drive, that's it, no other problems with the exception of ethernet, I can leave the cable plugged in but if I try to load up ethernet drivers, restart
trust me, the thought of just buying the same tower and transferring the hard drive over has crossed my mind many a time
 
@user88311 could also be a video card issue
 
Could pull the graphics card. System should boot without one
And even if windows should barf, it should power up and get past POST
 
@JourneymanGeek Not likely google.ca/…
 
@user88311: eh, I had that happen with a dell 530 ;p
sorta regrets not pulling the ram when I gave it away, it apparently won't boot up for the new owner
 
acer acer am1100 e1401b to be exact
 
12:33 AM
Last thing I gave away was just a motherboard (Asus something, X4800+ CPU, 4GB installed)
 
microsfto just said to bad after their "advice" made go from bad to worse
 
ugh, small formfactor box?
@Hennes: oh, I threw out the case, and I'd picked up that box from a dumpster ;p
 
man I feel like we're all the "thrifty" super uers
 
lol
@user88311: I wasn't allowed to build anything new for the past few years. Now I am.
 
I've got more retired computers than flat screens, and I've got 5 flat screens
 
12:35 AM
is down to a case, and the obligatory spare PSU
well as far as old/salvaged gear goes
oh and a laptop
 
I've got 1 old slow as hell desktop going with xp, my vista am1100 with that issue thanks to microsoft, and the netbook I'm on now was given to me by a friend after I started getting tired of cranking the heat just to turn my computer on
 
and a ps3 for music/tv/video/random surfing
that I've fixed 4 or 5 times now
need to do a proper job on it, remove all the solder and reball the processors
 
lets see, current running gear is a x220 (2nd generation core i5) my desktop (third generation core i7, DIY build), and a core 2 duo desktop. I have my old core 2 duo laptop and an atom mini itx.
I think we have a core solo laptop and a PIII somewhere around as well
oh, and my dad and brother have a laptop and a netbook each
 
I tempted to buy a android mini setup just because of sheer price and size, 80 bucks for quad core with 8 gigs of ram, hdmi, etc and fits in your pocket
 
12:40 AM
o0
8 gigs of ram on an android?
OH
 
the fact you can install linux up to the latest version of ubuntu makes it great
 
I also have a raspi
 
yeah dx.com has the second to best deals on them, but usually the first selling by a day
aside from all the random junk it's pretty good place for parts since it's all free shipping
well I'm going to eat be back in a hour
 
yeah
eh, I get MOST of my parts locally
other than the wierd random junk I can't be arsed to source
 
Heh. I usually read reviews for 2 to 3 months before ordering parts
And often the local shops do not have them in storage.
Though I am not as bad as 8 years ago. I walk into a shop, they drag out the special book with orders (e.g. PC VGA to 13W3 SUN monitor cables)
 
1:08 AM
lol
I got one of those, off cable wholesale
local shops have pretty good stocks here, especially since they're all in the same building
 
1:30 AM
well back to solving the issue
@JourneymanGeek @Hennes any ideas on that whole deefnder update=near end of my computer issue, I can pull up all the logs and info from back when it happened
defender*
I still wonder if there is a way to, reverse the update with a backup
 
You can always do a clean windows installation
Or restore the backup you may have made after the initial setup.
If you have a spare disk, plug that in, remove the old one. Reinstall totally clean. If the problems remain it is not a software issue.
 
if it happens during post, its probably not a software issue
boop
cause if it is, they're getting SLIGHTLY better
 
1:51 AM
Understand where your coming from journey, but it never happened till the defender update, and after restoring, the issue was resolved until I realized I hadn't turned auto update off, and after that the backup I had stored on the C drive got toasted
wasn't for the fact I don't want to put 5 years of work into the computer again I'd with screw it, new OS or computer
aw hen is offline
 
lol
one reason I set up things so my computers are interchangable ;)
 
I wish I had more time to work on my computer but I learned long ago, if you plan to study biology, you are not going to have time to work on your computer
 
@user88311: Oh, I basically automated the initial install process to a large extent
 
2:07 AM
journey you were here for the entire chat including the hair drier bit, @Hennes , which makes me wonder, if it's a hardware issue, why would the system only have the main issues (Not even starting up) when cold
in thoery if it was hardware, it wouldn't start up at all despite temperature
 
@user88311: maybe the warming up changes something?
 
but what though
 
(note, we don't have perfect information. this is heavily guesswork)
could be a bad capasitor (what would warming up do?) , slight expantion helping bad soldering work better....
 
it always crashes it drops below one certain temperature to, so it makes me wonder if somehow the wd update somehow affected the temperature sensors to, as I do have them set to turn the system off at certain temps
that is true, nut like said before the issue never started till the update, and it worked fine for 6 years
but*
 
if it works warm though, it would mean its set to turn the system off at a minimum temperature?
 
2:12 AM
I'll try turning off the the sensors (not something I ever wanted to do) tomorrow and see what happens
any more ideas in the mean timee to test
 
well pop the side and check for bloated capasitors?
The capacitor plague (also known as bad capacitors or "bad caps") was a problem with a large number of premature failures of aluminum electrolytic capacitors with non-solid or liquid electrolyte of certain brands, especially from some Taiwanese manufacturers. The capacitors failed by a special water based corrosion effect which was evoked by a wrong electrolyte. The first flawed capacitors were reported in September 2002. After it a lot of publicized press releases about the widespread problem with premature failures of Taiwanese electrolytic capacitors appeared. Most of the affect...
 
visual hardware issues were the first thing I checked
 
@JourneymanGeek holy crap, that article is incredibly detailed for wikipedia
it looks like a paper that belongs in a journal
 
probably was
and to be honest, if you aren't just browsing wikipedia, most actual articles are detailed
I suppose regarding hens earlier post this would come in handy, dx.com/p/…
to bad it takes about a month to get here
 
2:33 AM
But it does look like the spammers are getting better. If you look at each post separately, these could almost be valid answers: superuser.com/users/190848/allan-cass
 
@JourneymanGeek youtube.com/watch?v=FQS4I6T9Aro mechanical keyboards, cats, and chick all in one :O
 
2:55 AM
I'm pretty stoked right now - I've got three decent monitors for my custom build now, so I can finally have my triple monitor setup!
just waiting on a converter cord (week of snail mail) and I should be good to go!
All three of them have max/ideal resolutions of 1280x1024 resolution - all squarish... One was free, and the other were $20 each.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:05 AM
@JourneymanGeek definitely.
 
4:59 AM
Can someone help me activate this rebellious Windows 8?
 
5:10 AM
@Ariane is it an upgrade license that was clean installed?
 
@allq It's an OEM licence, the same I was using before I installed some new hardware and did a new clean install of Windows. I remember I had some trouble and needed a lot of searching to manage to activate it with the first installation, as just like right now, the common solution I found in Google didn't work. But I can't remember what I did at all. >.<"
 
that worked for me but i don't have an OEM license
 
Lemme try
@allq Actually I tried that a few minutes ago.
I also tried the command line stuff with slmgr, as well as slui 3, but no luck.
If I try to do it "normally", "Windows cannot be activated right now", and if I try to force it with such methods, error 0x8007007B. >.<"
 
5:40 AM
@Ariane: if all else fails, call them
@user88311: DX's shipping times have improved a lot lately
 
Don't wanna. ._. It's always so complicated (and usually useless) to call Microsoft. Besides, I did find something that worked last time, and it's doubly frustrating not to remember it.
Well, I'll go to bed and hope someone says a genius' idea
 
6:21 AM
@allquixotic: I guess its a subject that a lot of people had an interest in
 
 
3 hours later…
9:34 AM
but it seems almost like the OP is trying to get talked into a specific answer ;p
 
10:07 AM
Touchdown! The new heat sink arrived \o/
Sadly it's not self-assembling :(
 
Bob
lol
 
The installation instructions start with putting thermal grease on the CPU
That doesn't seem right
Even before screwing the backplate to the mainboard...
Seems premature. Or am I an idiot for doing it differently all those years?
 
wait
hmm
sorta makes sense ? ;p
 
10:24 AM
Why would I want to have the CPU lying around with thermal grease on it while I'm still fiddling around with the mainboard?
It just sounds like something where you end up with grease everywhere
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg or other crap sticking in the grease
 
Yay, there's a hole behind the CPU \o/ I don't have to take it out of the case
 
funny how this keeps getting mentioned ;p
@OliverSalzburg: I think all modern cases have that
 
@JourneymanGeek Good thing I checked anyway ;D
 
11:04 AM
I was wondering how bad an idea it would be to add one yourself to a case without one ;p
 
Okay, I'm now down with the greace-first method :P
Once you realize that there is no other way once you've installed the clamps that hold the heat sink
 
ahh yeah
still hasn't gotten used to the way you install LGA processors
 
11:21 AM
meh mined all night and got 0.00258035 BTC :/
 
lol
least you got something? ;p
 
I got 2.85 in Indian Rupees !!
 
@HackToHell: for how much power? ;p
 
i have no idea, idk how much power my computer uses :(
 
Jesus... I had installed the clamps 90° rotated O__o
 
11:29 AM
@OliverSalzburg That's why you had insane temperatures ?
 
naw
he got a new heatsink
 
@HackToHell No, I'm installing the new sink right now. Finishing up actually
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek (psst: @Sathya's message is still starred in the sidebar) :P
 
If I give my rig cost as 0$ :D
 
11:30 AM
@Bob: and? ;p
 
Bob
oh, nothing
just mentioning it :P
 
wait, you're actually making money off it?
naw, if its a machine you have anyway, I'd consider hardware cost to be zero ;p
 
Alright, let's see what we get... hopefully it's still alive
 
interestingly, its one thing AMD allegedly beats the crap out of the competition in
 
Can someone tell me what SP means in this table ? en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
 
11:34 AM
stream processors?
Stream processing is a computer programming paradigm, related to SIMD (single instruction, multiple data), that allows some applications to more easily exploit a limited form of parallel processing. Such applications can use multiple computational units, such as the FPUs on a GPU or field programmable gate arrays (FPGAs), without explicitly managing allocation, synchronization, or communication among those units. The stream processing paradigm simplifies parallel software and hardware by restricting the parallel computation that can be performed. Given a set of data (a stream), a series o...
 
thanks :)
 
Alright, so far so good. I'm in BIOS at 50°C
 
thats still a little warm IMO >_>
 
Sathya's pic is from reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful
 
It's always quite high in BIOS though due to lack of throttling
 
11:45 AM
@HackToHell I don't / seldom visit reddit.
 
@HackToHell: I linked that from tested ;p
which is awesome ;p
 
56°C now
@Sathya What's that? :D
 
@OliverSalzburg Chrome's new notifications
 
Hot! :D
 
Bob
@Sathya Hasn't that been there for a while?
 
11:53 AM
@Bob not the new style ones..
 
Bob
ahhh.. it's something in addition to HTML5 notifications
I've been using this for a while now
 
...Lol. I wake up, "oh no, I overslept! Gotta hurry!" Five minutes later, I hear on the radio that classes are suspended for a second day in a row because of the icing rain. Very very unusual.
 
So... now I have a system that is almost just as hot, but I need less RPM to achieve it!
The system doesn't seem to be too worried about the heat if it lets the fan almost stop :P
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg ooor you need to adjust the fan control to be more aggressive :P
why the heck am I getting chat flags
but 50 C should be fine..
 
@Bob Gonna try with some load...
 
12:06 PM
Say... How do I get rid of that process that starts automatically with my computer, Logitech's Product Registration, that gets C++ runtime errors and uses 17 % of my processor's ressources by itself, as the processor's total use is presently 20 %?
 
@Ariane Use Autoruns and disable it
Going well so far
Fruit of my labor :P
 
@Oliver Well, strange thing is that Windows 8's task manager, that shows me all startup applications, doesn't include the Product Registration thing.
 
@Ariane Windows 8 Task Manager has gotten a lot better compared to 7, but I would have assumed that the SysInternals tools still go a bit deeper
 
@Oliver I believe you, but it's frustrating to install a third party tool like this on a two-day-old clean install. >.<"
Oh, do you think uninstalling and reinstalling SetPoint could solve this?
 
@Ariane SysInternals isn't really 3rd party ;D
 
12:12 PM
^^'
 
This was my problem earlier... I did this:
When what I should have been doing was this:
So frustrating...
 
@Oliver I don't really understand. What are you doing?
 
@Ariane That wasn't directed at you ;) I was just earlier talking about assembling a heat sink
 
I knew you weren't talking to me, but I was really curious.
 
@Ariane Oh, I see :)
 
12:21 PM
Okay, so my real problem now. I need help trying to activate my stubborn Windows 8 Pro OEM. I'd managed to do it after a lot of effort, but since reinstalling it, I cannot for the life of me find how I'd done it.
 
brings up "Intel is not a heatsink company" again... :D
 
@soandos (Not sure if you got a reply) That's one of the new suggested edit review audits. Even says so at the top I saw just now.
 
@TomWijsman I'm still confused about the current temperatures though. Other people are already concerned with much lower temperatures on the same CPU
 
Sigh, someone hid very well the solution I had found a few months ago. T_T
 
In comparison, the Intel sink wasn't that bad
 
12:29 PM
@OliverSalzburg This is under load?
 
@TomWijsman Yes, Prime95 is running
 
Looks like my 50 --> 75 so should be fine.
 
Desktop can get down to something like 40 -> 65, though if you don't get there you probably don't need to worry.
 
I'm now at 42 actually
Nice
 
12:32 PM
They really should make an option "don't back-up the phone" in Zune.
 
Hey uhm. What could be wrong with my computer for Corsair Link to tell me my CPU is at 13 °C whilst the room's temperature is 26 °C ?
 
@Ariane Seems like you have a killer fan
Kudos! :D
 
...no, that has to be wrong
 
I doubt any fan, unless it's a refrigerator, can lower the temperature BELOW that of the air it's bringing in. ^^'
2
 
@Ariane Lies! :D
 
12:42 PM
@Ariane correct - although South Koreans actually have an auto-off timer on all fans sold in South Korea because there's an ongoing myth (presumably started by propaganda to save energy in the 70s or 80s) that you'll die of hypothermia if you leave a fan blowing on you while you sleep
Fan death is a widely held belief in South Korea that an electric fan left running overnight in a closed room can cause the death of those sleeping inside. All fans sold in South Korea come with an automatic timer that turns the fan off after a certain number of minutes. Scientific consensus holds that fan death is absurd. Origins of belief The genesis of this misconception is unclear, but fears about electric fans date almost to their introduction in Korea, with stories dating to the 1920s and 1930s warning of the risks of nausea, asphyxiation, and facial paralysis from this "new techn...
 
Lol.
But anyway, my problem is weird. I uninstalled and reinstalled Corsair Link because it was giving me errors when shutting the PC down, and now it's saying my CPU is in the fridge. oo'
 
@allquixotic TIL.
 
1:02 PM
0
Q: Unable to activate Windows 8

ArianeI first installed Windows 8 Pro 64 bits OEM a few months ago. I did a clean install with the same disc and key yesterday, after installing new hardware. I remember having this very same issue with my first installation, but I am absolutely unable to remember or find what I had managed to do. I re...

 
anybody know the average price on pci diognostic cards not bought online, since I don't want to wait for shipping
 
@user88311 Not specifically, but in stores, I notice that prices are maybe 30-50 % higher than online, in average. Might be more advantageous, if available, to buy it online with the fastest shipping option, even if there's a notable extra cost.
 
if only 50%, then it'll be anywhere;s from 3-5 bucks more
 
Heh, well, in that case I guess you already have your answer.
 
I'll take my chance with stores today, as I intend to get this compuuter working properly again with the next week or 2
 
1:11 PM
@Ariane just call Microsoft - 9 out of 10 times, activation doesn't even route you to a human being anymore; you talk to a machine or just punch in numbers with the keypad
 
@allquix but I have a traumatism with calling Microsoft. D:
 
here's a hint
 
it's gotten to the point where activation is really not a barrier to anything except telephobia and rampant piracy (dozens of attempted re-activations)
 
when you call them after the automated system starts, hold 0
it's the auto for talk to person
 
Well actually, talking to a person is not my aim. xD People at Microsoft are the one who have traumatised me.
 
1:13 PM
if you're just afraid about talking to Microsoft on the phone, well, you're free to run a non-activated copy of Windows... no skin off my neck
 
@allquix Well I'm not being really serious with this. Mostly just frustrated to need to do this when I managed to do without it last time.
 
also, this is how we are treated when we bow down to proprietary software overlords
 
to be honest, when you call microsoft, you call somebody who sits in a room with phones all day and a script
 
I think the whole process is a problem, myself, but not because I'm afraid of talking to a Microsoft rep, just for the inconvenience and because I should be able to use the software however I want
 
@allquix I think the very existence of this very basic bug is the problem. But honestly, from what I've seen, no matter what, Windows is still more advantageous than Linux.
 
1:20 PM
all depends on your use
honestly I prefere a mix of both, having them both makes life easier
mind you aside from lack of programs you can run and install on linux, it will cause you a hell of a lot less problems than windows, take it from me
 
Having two OS is a big problem to begin with. You see, I like everything organised and easy. To give you an idea, it's a huge pain for me to just have two Program Files folders. Not to mention that from the little I've seen, Ubuntu's interface seems designed especially to displease me. :p
Good morning-but-afternoon-for-you, @Hennes !
 
Hi all.
 
ariane
my linux install is on a external drive
takes your problem out of the equation
 
No, it complicates it further. Not only do you have do deal with something more, but it's not even on the computer. xD
 
also the layout bit, go with kubuntu then
it's design is very much windows based
and hey hen
 
1:27 PM
/me brews coffee and tries to become aware and awake.
 
Yeah... I was never a huge fan of Windows 7's interface, and this seems like a pale copy of it.
 
well im going to call up local shops see if I can find a pci diognostics card to see what it turns up as well
 
@Hennes Coffee is awfully bad for you
 
Wake up after 8 hours of sleep (should have been plenty), turned around slept 4 more
 
hennes to bad you missed me and @JourneymanGeek chat last night just after you left
 
1:29 PM
@user88311 Start with larger stores that have a website. When I was looking for a PSU, those seemed a little more promising than specialised stores, which had only lower quality products at a very high price. Like, they had two PSUs of ~750 W, one of which was bronze certified, and the other not without any 80PLUS certification at all.
And @user88311 How about getting a username? It's a bit of a pain, all those numbers. xD
 
ariane
better idea
i
I'm calling the stores in my area
they're all a 35 min walk away
 
That's good.
Wait, you have 836 rep and still don't have a nickname? D:
 
@DanielBeck I did not. That was really obvious though
 
Hey, curiosity question. What is a PCI port for? I have so many on my motherboard, but I haven't the slightest idea how I might want to use them.
 
of course all the stores are either to damn busy that you can't even get through or they don't have it
Conventional PCI (PCI is an initialism formed from Peripheral Component Interconnect, part of the PCI Local Bus standard and often shortened to PCI) is a local computer bus for attaching hardware devices in a computer. The PCI bus supports the functions found on a processor bus, but in a standardized format that is independent of any particular processor. Devices connected to the bus appear to the processor to be connected directly to the processor bus, and are assigned addresses in the processor's address space. Attached devices can take either the form of an integrated circuit fitted...
 
1:45 PM
Try again. Call another department and ask them to transfer you and ask for someone on the store's microphone, for example. They should answer you at some point.
 
don't you think that has been tried
I'll just call back in 5
 
@Ariane That's because today you have most things you need directly on the mainboard ;D
 
sadly right now I live in a country area right now so there's only 4 places where you can even find hardware, if I was living back in my old place, I would be able to see 4 from my front door
 
@Oliver That's what I'm asking. As in, what's a current, normal use of a PCI slot on a modern card? I see none. oo'
 
Not too long ago there were soundcards, network adapters, HDD controllers, ... and you had to get those because they weren't on the board
@Ariane Oh there's still lots of cards you can get
Also, the stuff on the board may be garbage
An audiophile is likely to get a "better" sound processor
 
1:48 PM
also pci post diagnostics cards use them
 
But uhm. Then why not just replace them with PCI-express port, or even create a retrocompatible new PCI-express port in which you can plug PCI cards as well.
Because from what I see, PCI slots are mostly taking up space that people might want to use for useful PCIe devices, but the card isn't even physically large enough to fit more PCIe slots, having loads of PCI slots.
 
@Ariane If you need more PCIe slots and less PCI slots, why did you get that board?
 
Uhm, PCI and PCIe are completely different beasts
 
It's not like they only make one kind ;D
 
1:50 PM
PCI is a shared bus
PCIe uses dedicated lanes
 
hen you beat me to the punch, damn netbook keyboard
 
weird: Raxco PerfectDisk Pro 12 tells me my drive is "already at optimum performance" but it has 20% data fragmentation... I then tell it to run "SMARTPlacement" and let it go overnight... it halved my loading times in SW:TOR... I'm surprised it wasn't like "you need to defrag NOW" during the analysis phase
going to work, back in ... 45 minutes
 
hen, know of any good shops to buy a pci post diagnostics card for cheap with quick shipping
not to dis dealextrme quality but a month for shipping is a horrible wait
 
@user88311 I see quite a few on Amazon
But I have no clue about those devices
 
no card just paypal and cash
I prefer to play it safe
@Hennes know any shops with quick shipping
 
1:59 PM
@allquixotic Probably someone implemented this auto-off timer on his computer fan, causing the computer to heat the room because it started catching a fire; therefore, this belief could as well have been introduced the phenomena rather than remedying it.
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