4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.(Paul says) What would happen if He told us?What he did see.Very interesting

@Eagle We now have the testimony of thousands of near-death experiencers, not to mention Emanuel Swedenborg's testimony, to give us a pretty good idea of what he saw.

@LeeWoofenden yes but,"no one is permitted to tell" I think He is saying that it will have consequences if he would tell us.I dont think the near death storys have "any great value" Not sure,but I guess He did see things that are connected to the earth,maybe things that would explain how the spiritual world are connected to us and nature,heaven and so on,knowledge that we are not strong enough (strong in faith) to carry.

The kingdom of God is within us and still he was in the third heaven,very interesting.(sound like He was lifted to another level inside himself) Complicated question(however I do not think(with all respect)The near death storys are the same as Paul was talking about)

I have read about That there where words only the High Priest could say,think maybe was one of the names of God

@bruisedreed Thanks for inciting me to read up on Hebrews 4:12 yesterday; it has been a fruitful study. Your answer deserves more attention too; I hadn't heard the temple argument before.

@LeeWoofenden ( there might be words if you understand and have faith they will have power,just like when Jesus said stuff,now that HE/Paul had seen stuff in heaven it would have power on earth.

FYI, Grudem mentions the argument that animals and humans are different as a basis for trichotomy, and one from 1 Cor. 2–3 that seems reasonable as well.

@Nathaniel Don't you think animals have a soul ?

@Eagle I haven't given the matter enough thought to have an opinion. But either way, I don't think the argument is strong enough to prove that people consist of body, soul, and spirit, as opposed to simply body and soul/spirit.

@Nathaniel I think some say that the soul and spirit is much the same,i don't know much about that question.But i think it is important to know,does every living thing have a soul or not?think thats important.Feel very sure that animals have a soul,just not the same soul as a human

@Nathaniel You're welcome & thanks for stimulating my thinking in this area as well.

@Eagle I think the sense of the word, rather, is that it is not possible to speak--i.e., the nature of things doesn't allow it. And both Swedenborg and NDErs commonly say that the words they use don't really describe what they experienced, but are only a pale shadow of it.

NDEers also commonly have the experience of "understanding everything in the universe" while in the experience, but then losing that understanding when they return to their bodies. What we can grasp with our spiritual mind is not fully expressible, and some of it not expressible at all, in the words of material language and thought.

The entire book of Revelation is an account of things John saw in the spiritual world. So it's simply not true that people are not allowed to speak of what exists in the spiritual world.

@LeeWoofenden The book of revelation!Revelation that was to be written down.For us to read.Jesus also said,he had more to say but they where not ready.

(maybe Paul could bear it but no the others)

@Eagle That doesn't take anything away from my point. And Jesus' statement that he had more to say that they couldn't bear at that time makes it more, not less, likely that he would reveal more things to us from heaven in the future.