TRPG General Chat

trogdor

12:00 AM

fair enough

Miniman

The best one I've had was from a little stall at a market.

Which, now that I think about it, has often been the case with foodstuffs.

BESW

McKraut's was a lot better when it was a kitchen in a container on the side of the road with some lawn furniture to sit on.

trogdor

@BESW I won't disagree with that

BESW

Now they're all hoity-toity with their newfangled aircon in a concrete building and you can't see if your friends are there when you drive past.

the dark wanderer

Hey, guys, how do you make rooms?

Miniman

12:04 AM

@BESW This is a sad pattern that plays out over and over again.

trogdor

I went in there one time since they upgraded the facilities, and it was definitely actually less impressive

the dark wanderer

Sorry for interrupting ^^;

Miniman

@thedarkwanderer Click the "site rooms" button in the top right, then scroll to the bottom and hit the "create room" button in the bottom right.

the dark wanderer

thx!

nitsua60

The explicit assumption that a player whose character's stats are below-average can't enjoy the game I find bizzare....

Shalvenay

12:05 AM

hey there @thedarkwanderer

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Miniman

@thedarkwanderer Yes, you interrupted our deeply important conversation about bratwurst. How could you presume to do such a thing.

trogdor

XD

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

BESW

@trogdor "Ooh, we have fancy beers!" "What about your famous brats?" "Oh, yeah, we make those too."

the dark wanderer

12:06 AM

@Shalvenay hey

trogdor

@thedarkwanderer I hope you learned your lesson and will never do it again :P

@BESW to be fair, I was with my father, and he did enjoy having some of those beers with the food

Miniman

@nitsua60 It comes back to "D&D is about combat". If your character feels like it doesn't contribute in combat, and combat is where you spend the majority of your time, then you're not going to be having much fun.

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah, that.

Miniman

I've been that guy - "I shoot the crossbow and miss" while everyone else is going on about the cool stuff they're doing is just not a good time.

BESW

Yup, this is one reason we stopped playing D&D 3.5.

trogdor

12:09 AM

hehe, failing in Fate is usually a lot more fun than simply missing with a crossbow attack, for sure XD

like when the whole party purposely failed to figure out that Dr Light was replaced by Vultura XD I still love those sessions

BESW

In our last 3.5 campaign, Troggy's PC was so underpowered compared to his brother's PC that whether or not Troggy even GOT a turn in combat was entirely down to whether he got initiative before his brother did.

nitsua60

@Miniman Yeah... I guess that's just not my D&D....

trogdor

@BESW oh the grappling Goliath?

that guy was ridiculous yeah

BESW

@trogdor I'm actually thinking about the acid-flinging warlock.

trogdor

oh

BESW

12:11 AM

The warlock was worse.

trogdor

was he? I don't recall him actually being worse

maybe he just wasn't as flashy and I don't recall how broken he was as a result

BESW

At least with the grappler, you and he were both playing in the same sandbox: close-quarters physical damage.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, that links back to a whole bunch of topics.

BESW

The warlock was designed to deal massive un-resistable, un-save-able damage at range.

trogdor

to be fair,... I was playing an extremely un-optomized character in order to have a fun gimick

BESW

12:13 AM

Yes. And so was Matt.

trogdor

yes

BESW

Which means Geoff's "I found this build on GitP" chargen style left you both in the dust.

The question being talked about here isn't that extreme, but it's the same deal.

trogdor

well, he had a lot of his D&D experience with a tryhard minmax group that had a GM who killed his characters off in order to get him to be a co-GM for certain sessions

soooo I can't actually blame him entirely on that point

BESW

Mismatched combat power in a system where combat power is a primary form of agency means mismatched agency.

trogdor

@BESW yes, my point is, his experience in D&D was a lot more messed up than mine ever was

BESW

12:16 AM

@trogdor I wish I'd known more about that at the time, I might've been able to help.

trogdor

that one campaign was probably the worst in terms of that kind of thing I actually ever had

nitsua60

@Miniman Encumbrance, mainly. =)

trogdor

and my character gimick was still fun for me, at the very least

Miniman

@nitsua60 "No such thing as D&D" is the big one.

trogdor

@BESW he only told me about it after we were starting to move into 4e, as I recall

or at least only told me to that kind of extent

the dark wanderer

12:18 AM

@Miniman No such thing as D&D? Is that the thing about every table actually playing a different game?

Shalvenay

@thedarkwanderer exactly

the dark wanderer

kk.

nitsua60

@Miniman amen.

trogdor

@BESW I also, at the time, never considered it in the light of "maybe BESW can help with this" I always thought of it as "ok well, this thing happened"

because I mean, for one thing, he never said it was a thing he needed help with

I also think, to some extent, by the time the Warlock was a thing, he might have felt like the characters that Matt and I had made might need some, like, carrying

I realize that isn't necessarily the right way to think of it with a GM/DM, such as yourself, who isn't trying to be the antagonist of the players

and I am quite sure you were the only DM he ever had, at the very least up to that point, who took any view other than the antagonistic kind of DMing

as I understand it, that is in fact an issue with the D&D community as a general whole XD

Magician

@BESW Brian wrote a whole paper on the topic, IIRC

BESW

12:24 AM

@Magician Yup. I've slogged through a page or two of it.

Magician

Hahaha, yeah

Academese... is.

Shalvenay

@Magician -- something had me wondering...are IDs edible? :P

Miniman

@Shalvenay Everything is edible.

trogdor

in any case, I did like that 4e, for example, let me build a "gimick" character, in fact more than one, that actually turned out to be very viable at what they do

Shalvenay

@Miniman haha

Miniman

12:26 AM

If you mean "what happens if you eat an ID?" then that's a different question ;)

trogdor

4e still had it's own issues, but it was missing some of the issues 3.5 had that I most disliked

BESW

@Miniman You get iddigestion.

Magician

@Shalvenay If they are, they likely taste very unpleasantly, as most carnivores do. Or am I misremembering it?

trogdor

@Magician the key word is "most" instead of "all" XD

Shalvenay

@Magician you know that people eat dog meat, right?

Magician

12:28 AM

If we accept the idea some cultures had of eating the brain of your enemy to gain their knowledge, and IDs certainly do, you may even learn what it knows! On the other hand, I can't think of a more sure-fire way of triggering an identity crisis than having distinct memories of your brain wandering about, jumping into other bodies.

BESW

@trogdor I did love that Geoff managed to make a character whose signature was "I don't roll d20s" and it wound up being a ridiculous force multiplier for the party.

trogdor

@Shalvenay I was actually thinking of just that

BESW

@Magician Have you read iZombie?

trogdor

@BESW yes, and my troll paladin-lock, and our push fighter

Magician

@BESW Nope. Does the protagonist eat zombies?

Miniman

12:30 AM

@trogdor You could play as a troll?

BESW

The protagonist is a zombie who acquires qualities of the people whose brains she eats.

trogdor

@Miniman no, not that no

the troll was more like "internet troll" than "fantasy troll"

Shalvenay

@trogdor haha, tell me more about your trollish Palalock :P

BESW

In order to stay sane regarding both the low-key multiple personality thing and the fact that she eats (dead) people (she lives in a graveyard and digs up fresh corpses), she uses their memories and emotions to try and resolve their unfinished business.

nitsua60

@BESW Sort of an undead Sam Beckett?

trogdor

12:32 AM

@Miniman @Shalvenay so this Walock I made in 4e was a tiefling, and multiclassed into paladin

BESW

@nitsua60 ...yes. (thanks for the clarification, I was momentarily confused and imagining "Waiting for Godot to Eat Our Brains.")

Magician

@BESW Ah, so she doesn't eat alive people, that's... good. I'll go with "good".

Shalvenay

@trogdor righty-o...tell me more

trogdor

so that he could use eyebite on people to go invisible, after marking them with his once per encounter paladin mark, which did damage to them and gave -2 to hit for the attack every time they attacked someone else

so they had no idea what square he was in (because he was invisible, and teleported a lot) and they also had -5 to hit him even if they guessed his square

so the choices they had were, attack a square they think he is in for -5 even if they guess right, or attack somone else for -2 and take damage whether they hit or not XD

Miniman

Yep, that's a troll all right.

nitsua60

12:36 AM

@BESW I get that a lot of the game tends to spotlight combat. What I don't get is why "sitting back" in combat is inherently unfun? I mean, plenty of people "sit back" during other play-modes. Is it because of the turn structure? The idea that one "should" participate in combat because it follows a different scene-management rule than everything else? (I'm just brain-farting out loud, here.)

BESW

@nitsua60 Yeah, that's a big part of it.

It's also because D&D frames the stakes as being highest during combat.

nitsua60

@BESW That's an excellent mental image. A nice sequel to Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, I think.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Also because, for most groups, that would mean sitting back for most of the time.

BESW

Combat is when you can DIE. Which means you lose all the time and effort you've put into your character over weeks/months.

Not pulling your weight during a social scene won't usually get your friends' characters killed.

Miniman

I mean, I sit back a lot. But if I found myself doing it most of the time, I'd ask myself why I'm playing in this game.

trogdor

12:37 AM

@nitsua60 also, even if you really like sitting back and shooting crossbows, every time you miss an attack,... you basically didn't get to do anything that turn

BESW

To my mind, playing D&D means you want to participate in frequent combat scenes. Otherwise, you'd be playing something else.

Magician

It does go beyond combat, though. If your character truly has terrible stats, you're more likely to fail any roll, combat or otherwise. And because D&D doesn't by default support interesting failure, you're bound to end up with quantifiably less influence on the game than your fellow players with decent stats. Lots of "you failed to achieve anything" outcomes.

@BESW Unfortunately, D&D being THE game, people get stuck on it.

BESW

Yup, that's also the case. When failure is boring, low stats mean boring play.

So a low-stat character in D&D is stuck between boring non-combat actions and tragic in-combat actions.

trogdor

yeah I am pretty glad to not be stuck thinking D&D is the only game in town anymore

BESW

This can be salvaged by a good GM and a cooperative party, but Fixing Something Doesn't Mean It Wasn't Broken.

Shalvenay

12:41 AM

@BESW yeah, you need a table that's OOCly relatively low-stakes for a low-stat D&D char to work well

BESW

...I once ran a campaign where each PC had a Tragic Flaw which made it difficult for them to fulfill their typical/desired function in the group.

The wizard could only prepare spells by imbuing them into arrows, and could only cast them by firing the arrows at the desired target.

If he mixed up his arrows, he wouldn't know what spell he was casting. And buffing his allies became "fun."

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

trogdor

@BESW wait, did he do that by shooting them?

BESW

@trogdor Yes.

trogdor

lol

BESW

12:43 AM

"Hold still, we need to planeshift!"

trogdor

how did he cast self targeted spells?

nitsua60

@BESW True. I need to make social scenes more lethal. (cc: @Shalvenay)

=)

the dark wanderer

SOunds like an interesting situation offensively, though. Rapidshot+Manyshot to replace quicken spell?

BESW

The bard had negative Charisma, but used an intelligent set of bagpipes with awesome Charisma... but they sulked and refused to play unless they were drunk. And bagpipes soaked in ale don't sound too great.

nitsua60

@Miniman Mostly to fiddle with dice, add other people's numbers for them, and push around minis with my little croupier's stick =)

Shalvenay

12:45 AM

@nitsua60 hahahahaha :D how do you propose to do that?

BESW

The ranger was raised by wolves and knew a number of words in Common equal to his intelligence score.

nitsua60

@BESW & @Magician these are good points. Another prompt (as if I needed it) to remember to make failures interesting/forward-facing.

daze413

@Shalvenay heya!

nitsua60

@Shalvenay I dunno... we'll find out the next time one of you opens your mouth =D

trogdor

@nitsua60 blahblah bla-ureutggehrffs'g.......

Shalvenay

12:47 AM

@nitsua60 hahaha :P

nitsua60

@trogdor annihilate

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 the only thing I can think of are folks that instead of dueling you over social slights, engage in...skullduggerous forms of revenge instead ;)

BESW

@Magician There's a TV show based on the comics, also called iZombie. It's not bad, but instead of being a homeless zombie in a graveyard she's a forensic examiner in the police morgue. So she eats peoples' brains to solve their murders.

nitsua60

@Miniman The problem with this answer is that I've already introduced him to the concepts of aleph-nought, c, and inaccessible cardinals. He won't accept "infinity" as an actual answer.

BESW

Which is a shame, because the primary plot of the TV show is so much more interesting than the murder of the week and doesn't need the "CSI with Zombies!" gimmick to propel it.

@nitsua60 But will he accept "Buzz Lightyear" as an answer?

trogdor

12:50 AM

hehe, Buzz Lightyear as an answer would be fantastic

confusing, but fantastic

nitsua60

@BESW It's possible. I'll try it next time.

BESW

> My AC is Buzz Lightyear. You are immune to physical damage, but weak against existential crises.

trogdor

fantastic, yep

also less confusing than I would have thought

Karelzarath

@BESW You're a sad, strange little man.

trogdor

hehehe

Miniman

12:53 AM

@nitsua60 What about AC = t/2, where t = the number of days spent reading Manuals of Quickness of Action?

nitsua60

"Daddy- can Eli come over to play this afternoon?" "Buzz Lightyear!"
"Daddy- can I watch a show?" "Buzz Lightyear!"
"Daddy- what's for breakfast?" "Buzz Lightyear!"
"Daddy- when will Mommy be home?" "Buzz Lightyear!"
Whoa: that got worse and worse as it went on....

BESW

> A sad, strange little man. You have +2 when using Rapport to get people to help you.

trogdor

lol

daze413

@trogdor challenge accepted

trogdor

@nitsua60 this is the song that doesn't end, it just goes on and on my freinds, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because,...... XD

BESW

12:56 AM

> The Song That Never Ends. You can use Perform to make a mental attack against everyone in earshot, including yourself, with weapon:2 on the attack. However once you use this attack, you must continue making this attack every turn until you are taken out (and you cannot concede).

trogdor

@BESW I have a stunt for huge amounts of armor against this attack actually XD

I even tested it the last couple of days, though to be fair if I were actually using this attack against other people I would take entirely separate mental/social damage

possibly also, to be fair, run out of breath

my testing of my own armor against the attack was in the car when no one else could hear me, after all

that song makes me happier than it has any right to

the dark wanderer

@BESW Not being able to concede seems really problematic in Fate. You should make that, like, an extra consequence for conceding or something. Maybe just 'if you concede you still must keep playing the song until you fall unconcious' or something.

BESW

@thedarkwanderer It's a self-activated condition on a stunt you choose for yourself, and it's a ridiculous stunt anyway.

the dark wanderer

Well, alright :P

trogdor

it is already ridiculous yeah

nitsua60

1:04 AM

@thedarkwanderer I don't know the mechanics (at all), but lore-wise I'd say you can only concede if someone else takes up the stunt. The only way to rid oneself of an earworm is to pass it along, after all.

the dark wanderer

For sure! There should be some kind of thing to try and trick/force them into it as well. That'd be great.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 -- I think my problem with Bards (and likewise with Charisma-based Rogues) is that I have trouble giving impact to the archetypes that character class invokes

BESW

@nitsua60 That'd be the Punch, Brothers, Punch form of earworm, then?

daze413

@Shalvenay just because he has high charisma, doesnt mean he has to be skinny. I find weightier people are generally more charming

nitsua60

@Shalvenay ??

BESW

1:08 AM

(As opposed to the Hip-High Hippopotamus earworm.)

Shalvenay

@daze413 ah. let me edit that

@nitsua60 better?

nitsua60

@BESW ??

daze413

@Shalvenay I was kidding! haha

BESW

Mark Twain wrote a short story about an earworm which you could only get rid of by getting it stuck in someone else's head.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay I still don't think I'm following.

@BESW A-ha. Thanks.

daze413

1:11 AM

@Shalvenay Do you mean how, like, Sam Riegel plays a bard?

BESW

Robert McCloskey wrote his own short story about an earworm which spread but didn't leave the person who shared it, and which was cured by replacing it with Twain's earworm (only one earworm per person at a time!) and then passing that earworm along.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah. basically, I tend to see that sort of chassis as almost...flirtatious if you will -- not able to project power, in a sense.

nitsua60

You haven't met some of the flirts I have... =)

trogdor

I don't actually see how being flirtatious has no,... power behind it

Shalvenay

nor able to draw people in, then get them with a strong "back pocket" ability

@daze413 don't get the ref

trogdor

1:12 AM

it's just an alternate form of exercising power

and as with all forms, it depends really on how good you are at it

Karelzarath

@trogdor Exactly

Shalvenay

@trogdor I think this circles back to me not acknowledging social conflict as legitimate

trogdor

like, I am total trash at flirting, I just never meet anyone who I feel like flirting with, and it makes me uncomfortable to even think about it, therefore I don't do it, and am not good at it

but someone else who actually does? they can get people to do any number of things if they are good at it

daze413

The Best Hits of Scanlan Shorthalt - Volume 1 (Available Today From Gilmore's Glorious Goods!)

►

trogdor

or even just feel certain ways (and no, not just one way, literally a whole slew of seperate emotions can be invoked)

Shalvenay

1:15 AM

although I think some of my terminology was off -- to frame this alternately, Bards and charisma Rogues rely upon guile for their power, something I don't see as workable in my worldview

(partly because I'm bad at it, and partly because I come from a background that quite actively rejects it)

trogdor

like, one girl in Highschool flirted with me once just to mock me, I didn't fall for it in the sense that I thought it was for real or anything, but she made me feel pretty bad for the rest of the day regardless

this kind of thing is in fact, a sort of social attack if you know how to apply it that way

nitsua60

is How to Answer an auto-link mainsite?

BESW

I'm reminded of a chat some years ago with someone who thought "eloquence" was equivalent to "deception."

daze413

@Shalvenay Ah, because you're playing a high Cha, bard-ish, fast-talking, the game expert, and you yourself aren't one, it's tough to pull off?

nitsua60

(well there's my answer, I guess.)

Karelzarath

1:18 AM

Much like someone playing a character that's astoundingly more intelligent than they are.

Shalvenay

@daze413 not just that -- it's that my worldview actively rejects that means to power\

daze413

@trogdor aw, that sucks. :(

trogdor

@Shalvenay ah I see, are you just saying it is hard for you yourself to play a character like that? rather than that you don't know how it could be powerful?

Shalvenay

basically it's like "don't do that, because you'll paint yourself into a corner that way"

trogdor

@daze413 eh, I wouldn't share it here if I wasn't over it a long time ago

BESW

1:19 AM

@Karelzarath Or, yanno, playing someone who's really good with a laser sword and can move things with their mind.

trogdor

it just seemed like a good example

Shalvenay

@trogdor I don't know how it can be powerful because my worldview says that any and all attempts at gaining power by that means should be stomped out

BESW

@trogdor I once had someone I barely knew publicly break up with me. I'm still not sure why.

trogdor

@Shalvenay so more of a moralistic choice?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay one thing I don't quite grok: are you saying you don't know how to play that sort of character, or that you don't recognize that a character can exert power that way?

Shalvenay

1:20 AM

@trogdor yeah, to some degree

trogdor

@Shalvenay fair enough I suppose

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 more the latter than the former -- I see any power they can exert that way as fleeting/transient and with deep, deep drawbacks

nitsua60

okay, but they can exert that power, it just comes at a cost. That about right?

Karelzarath

@BESW Those don't generally require the player to emulate their character's abilities like a high mental stat character.

BESW

@Karelzarath Only because of table traditions.

Karelzarath

1:22 AM

@BESW And the roleplay/rollplay stigma

nitsua60

A long time in the future, in a galaxy far, far, away, astronomers in the year 2008 sight an unusual gamma-ray burst originating from somewhere far across the universe.

(couldn't resist)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 the way I see it, the costs make that sort of power exertion not worthwhile/practically usable vs the alternatives

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 ha!

BESW

There's no reason a player needs to describe their character's specific rhetorical flourishes, any more than a player needs to describe their character's specific sword form.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay to you, or to all? Here's where I'm stumbling: if your (RL) worldview makes you not want to play a certain character, have a blast. If your (RL) worldview makes you not acknowledge that other characters even have the power that the rules say they do, that seems problematic. On the third hand, if your (RL) worldview says that such characters exerting such power should come at a greater cost than most recognize, then that's likely an interesting conversation to be had with a group.

Shalvenay

1:25 AM

@nitsua60 the costs are both local and global -- that sort of power exertion I see as corrosive

Karelzarath

@BESW Which is totally fair.

nitsua60

Sure. But I'm having trouble understanding how that connects to the game.

Shalvenay

it makes it hard for me to accept the conceits and archetypes that live under the name of the class

it almost feels like I'd be RPing an internet troll

Miniman

@Shalvenay Would you find it easier if they were called "politicians"? Or maybe "marketers"?

Shalvenay

@Miniman haha, I'd have a harder time with mapping the class to "politician"

but that's a function of my wonkishness

daze413

1:29 AM

@Shalvenay take 2 levels of bard, and many levels of warlock with the patron: the government

Shalvenay

@daze413 hahahahahaha

that works for power-mongers, but it is very definitely not a good fit for policy wonks

Miniman

I mean, really, these days the majority of white-collar jobs basically boil down to your ability to persuade people of something.

The methods of persuasion and the something vary enormously, of course.

Shalvenay

yeah, what I'm trying to say is that I strongly prefer INT-driven and WIS-driven persuasion to CHA-driven persuasion

trogdor

I mean, I don't entirely see it that way

I think of Cha as being this intangible quality that some people have

Miniman

Your background is as an engineer, right? You must have seen how some lecturers are able to convey concepts far more effectively than others, regardless of the content.

trogdor

1:33 AM

and depending on who they are, what they are like, and how they apply it, it could come from a variety of sources that you can't necessarily put your finger on, but that none the less do exist

Shalvenay

@Miniman and the way I've seen it in my experience is much of it has to do with framing, not any intrinsic quality of the lecturer -- you're confusing CHA-the-intangible with CHA-as-you're-applying-it-to-persuasion

daze413

You can understand, apply, even create ideas for a subject with your INT, but doesn't necessarily mean you can convey those ideas to others as effectively

trogdor

like a general that all the troops like to hear speeches from, and maybe it turns out this particular general spent a lot of time at lower ranks among the normal troops before moving up in rank, and just happens to know how to talk to them better than anyone would ever expect

Shalvenay

basically, I was mapping INT to logos, WIS to ethos, and CHA to pathos there

Miniman

@Shalvenay I'm really not. Cha is an abstraction of thousands of small factors.

trogdor

1:37 AM

and none of it is this person like, trying to manipulate people, it just so happens they know what to say because of prior circumstances in their life, and they don't even think of it in terms of applying charisma to the task, or bamboozling anyone

daze413

body language, micro-expressions, tone

trogdor

charisma can be just as much about honesty and true character as it can be about manipulating people

nitsua60

this ^^

trogdor

charisma isn't any more "evil" or "corosive" than pure intelligence or wisdom,

Shalvenay

basically, what I'm saying is that if your argument relies on the charisma of the arguer to stand, it shouldn't stand.

trogdor

1:38 AM

it just happens to also have more directly slimey looking applications

@Shalvenay but charisma isn't just one thing though

nitsua60

@trogdor I have a 6yo daughter who is one of the most charismatic people I've ever seen. She genuinely, openly, and transparently loves the people around her, makes them feel it through no intentional activity, and it really changes how people's days go.

trogdor

it can be the combination of several things that make up the character who has it

@nitsua60 I think sometimes people forget that having charisma doesn't necessarily mean you know you have it, or even that you intentionally use if for anything in particular

Miniman

@trogdor So much this, though. The thing where, on first meeting someone, they seem trustworthy, is one of the purest examples of charisma I can think of.

trogdor

@Miniman yeah, and sometimes that is because they literally are, and sometimes it is because they are tricking you

I don't mean to say it is always obvious which it is

daze413

@trogdor and sometimes its how the jaw lines are configured.

trogdor

1:42 AM

@daze413 this is certainly not a non-factor

nitsua60

@trogdor Sometimes it is, though. They bold things a little too much, or dress up like a princess when there's no real cause. Then turn on a dime and threaten to set people on fire...

=D

trogdor

I just mean to point out that no one thing is charisma

nitsua60

(bold! ^^ )

trogdor

@nitsua60 hey, I bold things to put emphasis on them!

nitsua60

Yeah, but how do they feel?

trogdor

1:43 AM

they feel bold sir

daze413

they feel bold sir

trogdor

hehehe

daze413

they feel bold sir

BESW

> 'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I always pay it extra.'

nitsua60

they feel bold, sir.

There's a word that isn't in English: it describes a sentence whose meaning changes into something different for each of the words having been given emphasis. Anyone feel up to coining it?

Miniman

1:46 AM

@Shalvenay Just because you think it shouldn't happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Shalvenay

@Miniman I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ididn'tsayyoustolemymoney.

daze413

woman to elevator-guy: bababa ba?
E: bababa

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

nitsua60

@Miniman The example I can never get out of my head: "I didn't ask for a prostate exam."

daze413

1:50 AM

@Shalvenay oh hai!

Miniman

@nitsua60 I can't come up with a single interpretation of that that isn't vaguely horrifying.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

BESW

@nitsua60 There's no word for sentences like that, probably because almost every sentence is one, but there IS a phrase for meaning implied by emphasis: "contrastive stress."

daze413

I didn't ask for a prostate exam.

the prostate exam

nitsua60

@daze413 It actually works better with a slightly-different pair of last words, the penultimate starting with a vowel, so the stress becomes "I didn't ask for an ___ ____." But I cleaned it up for chatizenry.

daze413

1:52 AM

@Shalvenay family is leaving for the country-side to celebrate my grandma's birthday. She's 82. I have work on that day and am contemplating maybe or maybe not going

nitsua60

(Yes, that's the clean version.)

Shalvenay

@daze413 awww :/

daze413

(to work, not going to work)

nitsua60

@BESW I'm sorry, is that "contrastive stress," or "contrastive stress?"

=)

@BESW (Btw, thanks for making me one of today's 10,000.)

BESW

I'm reminded of the (possibly apocryphal, I haven't checked sources) account of an early 20th century lawyer defending a client who'd published naughty pamphlets with the naughty bits blacked out.

He won the case by reading aloud poetry to the jury:

> Jack and Jill went up the hill
To ███ █ ███ █ ████.
Jack fell down and broke his ███,
And Jill came █████ after.

2

The conclusion being that either the jury find his client innocent, or admit to being perverse themselves.

trogdor

1:56 AM

lol

daze413

I'd admit to being perverse for the sake of Justice (!)

trogdor

@daze413 that isn't justice though

nitsua60