TRPG General Chat

1:06 AM

hey there @nitsua60

...I need a way to sort my games.

I've got about 250 individual systems, with another 50+ iterations within various systems, before counting more conventional expansion material like adventures.

It's getting kinda hard to find anything.

BESW

1:43 AM

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
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nitsua60

3:02 AM

@Shalvenay hiya

Joel Harmon

3:31 AM

@BESW I assume that you mean rule books; physical or digital?

BESW

@JoelHarmon Digital.

Joel Harmon

consider setting up a local wiki

BESW

Go on.

Joel Harmon

there are dozens of implementations of wiki-style software; I believe wikipedia has a grid

there: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software

nitsua60

[eavesdrops]

Joel Harmon

3:33 AM

wikimedia is the actual software that runs wikipedia

I haven't actually tried this myself, nor seen it done, so this is all a bit off the cuff

but I don't see any reason you couldn't do things like make a page for each game, listing whatever you like about it, assorted notes, etc, and link the pdfs from there

BESW

Personal wiki

A personal wiki is a wiki maintained primarily for personal use. Personal wikis allow people to organize information on their desktop or mobile computing devices in a manner similar to community wikis, but without the need for collaboration by multiple users. Personal wiki software can be broadly divided into multi-user wiki software with personal editions, and those wiki applications that are designed only for single users, not depending on a database engine and a web server. The first class includes wiki applications such as MoinMoin or TWiki, as these can be installed for standalone use as well...

Joel Harmon

features like search would clearly be useful, as would lists

BESW

Like that sort of thing?

Joel Harmon

exactly that kind of thing

it's presumably a ton of work to curate and maintain that kind of thing on your own, but copyright issues would probably kill a collaborative project

BESW

I wouldn't even need to link the pdfs, really.

The wiki can work more like an encyclopedic cross-referenced index.

Once I know what game I want, I can retrieve it easily enough. The challenge is in, for example, saying "I want a one-shot premade horror adventure, but I don't care what system."

Joel Harmon

3:38 AM

a wiki is just a bunch of html and related files; you can impose semantics on it however you like. That is, there's no reason you couldn't set it up to be a text choose your own adventure via links, if you like.

BESW

The way I'm set up right now, I'd have to go to every system folder and check if it's got a pre-made horror adventure.

Joel Harmon

if just that is your use case, then perhaps a simple excel document with columns would suffice; tag appropriately and filter by column. It's quick and dirty and inflexible, but it might work

it wouldn't do something fuzzy like matching four of five properties

BESW

I've tried using OS X's native tagging system, but it's not very great.

nitsua60

or even file-system tagging?

BESW

Like, I can't tag all files in a folder at once.

nitsua60

3:41 AM

(nvm)

Joel Harmon

I'm not familiar

BESW

I have to tag each file individually.

nitsua60

You can't do it from the terminal?

(admittedly, it's literally been a decade since I've used an OSX terminal)

Joel Harmon

I suspect you can, but BESW has previously stated he's not a techie

BESW

The only Terminal line command I don't copy-paste is "cd."

Maybe this is an opportunity to teach myself Adobe Bridge.

nitsua60

3:45 AM

8

Q: How can I apply tags in Mavericks recursively?

Now that Mavericks removed that ugly colored bar and replaced it with a nice looking dot, I would like to use tags more. Basically I have work files in different places that deal with different projects and I would like to apply the tag for all the files included in specific folders. The files m...

(maybe?)

Joel Harmon

a cursory googling seems to indicate that Adobe Bridge could work

BESW

That's... not bad, for brute-force workarounds.

nitsua60

Want an ugly "solution"?

BESW

?

Print all my PDFs and shelve them by publication date?

nitsua60

One of us'll write you a script to go through your RPG folder and severally e-mail you each document contained therein. And then you can label them in GMail to your heart's content.

BESW

3:48 AM

That's terrifying.

Joel Harmon

that's probably even worse than the Excel suggestion

BESW

It'd be easier to use OS X's tagging feature.

nitsua60

...maybe you should paste them into a Word document first.

BESW

[shudder] You pierce me to the quick, sir.

Joel Harmon

I've more or less devolved to this xkcd in helping you

BESW

3:52 AM

I show that one to all my MS Office students.

Joel Harmon

I know someone who will use Windows' snipping tool to capture part of their screen, then screenshot that window to send to me

nitsua60

In a Word document, right?

Joel Harmon

she didn't seem to know that the snipping tool already puts that image in the copy buffer, and all she had to do was paste it

over Skype, so half credit for Microsoft I suppose.

BESW

Almost every class I teach, at least once person goes "oooooh" over ctrl+z.

Joel Harmon

I have problems giving presentations via screen share on how to do stuff. I habitually use shortcuts for everything and inevitably confuse people

nitsua60

3:58 AM

@BESW Any tips that tend to surprise even the savviest?

Aside from "save often," of course =)

Joel Harmon

use version control

yes, even for things like word documents; particularly the newer microsoft formats

the .***x formats are all just zip files you can open and poke at

if you're desperate or curious, you can find out quite a bit about it

anyway, I think I've caused enough trouble for now; talk to you gentlemen later

BESW

@nitsua60 You can disable the Mini Toolbar quite easily.

nitsua60

@BESW What's the mini toolbar?

BESW

That set of buttons that pops up over what you're working on if you highlight something and then hover your cursor over it again.

nitsua60

Oh, you mean that annoying thing that pops up in a place that I've specifically indicated I want to use my mouse in, and which I've never used a single button on?

I.e. the 2010's version of "clippy"?

BESW

4:03 AM

Yes.

nitsua60

I'm all ears--how?

BESW

File tab -> Options -> General (probably already selected) -> User Interface Options -> uncheck "Show Mini Toolbar" (probably the first option visible).

nitsua60

Done. Awesome! Where do I send the check?

BESW

Also: you can customise the Quick Access Toolbar so the features you use the most are available no matter what tab you're on.

And if you're a keyboard shortcut guy, press "alt" to reveal the shortcuts for each tab--press one of them to see all the shortcuts for that tab's features.

nitsua60

@BESW definitely a keyboard guy, and very appreciative that they left in the F10 access to menus that I've still got in muscle memory from the 90s.

I think F10,F,A will never be supplanted by SHIFT+CTRL+S in my hands.

BESW

4:09 AM

I was deeply disapproving when they changed the redo shortcut.

nitsua60

Is it no longer CTRL+Y?

BESW

For a while it was shift-ctrl-z, which works a lot better.

Being able to move back and forth just by lifting or depressing one finger, instead of moving a finger halfway across the board--yes, please.

nitsua60

I can dig that.

Alright--out for the night.

BESW

ttfn

BESW

4:37 AM

Anybody have experience with TiddlyWiki?

Axoren

4:48 AM

Is it just me, or does KotOR not have any replay value?

BESW

[blink] Are you maybe looking for the video game chat?

Axoren

Right, this is the TRPG chat.

But I feel like my gripes with it have to do with the RPG elements.

And I kind of blurred everything together in my tired state

It's a game with transparent D&D-heavy elements

BESW

I mean, we don't ban that kind of discussion, obviously, and I'm sure some folks have experience with that game here.

I won't be much help, though.

Axoren

Generally, it's a game about being a Jedi, but you don't become a Jedi until "D&D" level 8ish

And the first half of the game is a railroad. So, imagine playing from Level 1 to Level 8 in a campaign you've already played before just to try a different Jedi class.

Doesn't that sound like a horrible module/campaign?

BESW

That... doesn't sound too unlike a common D&D 3.x experience of the same period. Start out underpowered, kill rats until you start getting the good stuff.

I wouldn't say it's horrible, but it's definitely a playstyle which is... less popular these days.

It's more of the OSR concept that you must earn your exceptionalism.

Axoren

4:54 AM

Put more bluntly, it's Level 8 before you can take levels in Wizard.

Rather than you actually prestiging into exceptionalism.

I don't know how much like that 3.x was before 3.5e

BESW

Earlier editions of D&D had certain classes or level options which were unavailable until you'd achieved certain other goals.

eg, at one point to be a bard you basically had to take at least one level in every other class first.

Axoren

That just seems so odd to me in this era, since I wasn't part of that one.

Then again, this is a game from that era.

BESW

KotOR was designed on the cusp of a change in gaming philosophies, yeah.

But, for a more direct comparison of video game to video game, look at Wizardry 8 from 2001.

Axoren

I can't imagine Bard being competitively useful to a party after having spent 7 levels without his buffs, nor a Wizard being forced to be a warrior for just as long before learning his first spell.

BESW

Sounds like KotOR was building on the legacy of S&S CRPGs at least as much as it was drawing from the TRPG landscape.

Axoren

4:59 AM

This one: youtube.com/watch?v=uRbtLSjIKAU ?

BESW

Yes.

Axoren

There seems to be a whole series of this game.

Was 8 special in particular?

BESW

Yes, particularly for being one of the last of its type and kind of codifying the whole subgenre.

It's about long unrewarding and repetitious slogs leading to high competencies later on, and its fans consider it to have great replay value in the variety of choices you can make about what kinds of slogs you'll take for what rewards.

Axoren

That's something I would have rather liked if KotOR did. It's exactly the same slogs even if you try to be fundamentally opposite of your last play through.

BESW

Mmm, maybe I gave the impression Wiz8's early game has story choices.

The choices one makes early on are about one's character mechanics, but have little differentiating effect on the play experience until later.

Axoren

5:07 AM

From what I can see in the combat, it's rather nice looking.

Rather, it would be on a better resolution.

BESW

It's the same maps, the same fights, with minor changes in how you overcome them--mostly depending on whether you selected for fast-peaking power that slumps in late game, or late-game power which makes early game nigh lethal.

Yeah, Wiz8 has aged surprisingly gracefully so long as you're on board with its design philosophies.

Axoren

I always wanted something rather open-ended from a video game RPG. Morrowind was nice in that way, but it didn't really give me the same RPG fix I wanted. It was more like an bad Action RPG with dice-roll-like mechanics.

Good and restrictionless customization at the beginning, and the gloves come off from the beginning.

Watching the character creation for the game, now. I might buy it.

Thanks, @BESW

BESW

ttfn

Axoren

Peace

The Oracle

5:56 AM

0

Q: Is a question asking for help finding a monster that meets a particular description on topic?

I have an idea of the kind of monster I want my party to face in their next big encounter, but I don't have enough free time to go through the beastiary to find an existing creature that fits the idea I have in my head. I'd like to use an existing creature, or at least use one as a template, rath...

discussion

doppelgreener

1:08 PM

Collection of questions about support…

Task room for gathering our questions on this topic.

Hm, we have had a variety of questions about gaming with various disabilities and conditions over time, a tag for that might be merited but it probably would need to be wrangled over on meta to make sure it's inoffensive enough. — mxyzplk ♦ 12 mins ago

If anyone's aware of questions that match this category, could they check if they're in that room I've linked and add them if not?

nitsua60

@doppelgreener We've got some questions about the challenges players with Asperger's face--do you see those fitting in this room? (I hesitate because the room description currently mentions "disabilities," and I'm not sure that's an appropriate characterization of Asp.)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Yes.

They may or may not be strictly labelled disabilities, but I feel they'd fall in that general umbrella.

Take "disability" for "there's a word for this stuff and this is the closest one I can think of"

nitsua60

Yeah, it's a bit of an overloaded word, but nothing better springs to mind.

doppelgreener

Name changed to say "disabilities or similar"

Mostly this is to support a potential meta discussion on the topic.

nitsua60

looks good--I feel like it's best served by being over-inclusive at this point. When we can see a big sample then it might make sense to try and suss out where a "boundary" might lie.

doppelgreener

1:22 PM

I quite agree.

nitsua60

1:41 PM

Any chance we can make this comment our new site motto: "A bit flabbergasting to find the Roleplaying Stack Exchange is a healthy community full of knowledgeable, considerate people. I hardly expected anyone to read my monsterlith of text."

3

BESW

1:53 PM

Lovecraftesque: a little bumpy navigating the restrictions of each stage because it was our first game, but a good game that we're adding to our list.

doppelgreener

yay!

BESW

2:07 PM

Missed you.

doppelgreener

this week has been rather exhausting, probably why i slept in past it.

BESW

That's reasonable.

doppelgreener

i'll endeavour to make this weekend much less so, and get myself to sleep at better times.

BESW

Next week we'll probably have Eimyr and Raycia again, but no Ben.

doppelgreener

2:25 PM

(i'm also in a room that stays dark until around midday, so that probably throws me off a lot)

I'm looking forward to it.

BESW

Oh, and probably Jake next week too.

doppelgreener

gasp!!!!

BESW

Not sure what's up with Dan these days.

doppelgreener

I haven't seen Jake in ages

@BESW I reached out to chat with him earlier. I'd basically dropped off the radar for a while myself.

nitsua60

2:52 PM

@Miniman in case you're interested, that hacked-together Ftr 1 + Cl many "paladin" I'm playing in Strahd is working brilliantly. Brilliantly! ('cause, Light Domain... "brilliant"....)

Quote from last night's session:
Ftr 1: I'll go first, I'm a fighter.
Me: Maybe I should.
Ftr: I've got AC 18.
Me.: I've got twice your hit points, 3-point damage reduction, more expected damage on a hit, can impose disadvantage on incoming attacks, and the same AC.
Ftr: ???
Rogue: He'll go first.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I take it the Fighter hasn't made the best build choices.

Actually, I can sort of see where all of that would come from, except the "double his hit points" part.

Anyway, 2am here - I'd love to hear more about it, but right now I have to go sleep.

Shalvenay

3:12 PM

@nitsua60 nice!

@nitsua60 it sounds like he could rough up Jherala pretty good, even

Anaphory

3:35 PM

Is there an accepted way to denote in a quote that a specific place does not contain a specific word?

I have a quote where someone, without giving the original, changes a definition from “A language is a system of arbitrary sound symbols” to “system of arbitrary symbols”, and I think my audience doesn't know the original definition, is there a convention to mark the difference?

Shalvenay

@Anaphory um, tell whoever wrote the original definition to try dictating APL or FORTH at you

Anaphory

Or mathematical formula, really.

Shalvenay

@Anaphory yes, that too :D

Anaphory

(I think they may be dead, they published that thing in 1942 – the quote without “sound” is by Stokoe from the late 60s with reference to sign languages, so we're not talking programming languages.)

I have now used ‘“A language is a system of arbitrary [¹] symbols” ¹)The original definition by Bloch and Trager had a “sound” here’, does that look clear?

nitsua60

4:43 PM

@Miniman Level-difference.

@Shalvenay eh, probably not. Still only L2 =)

@Miniman To expand, due to the player having missed a session I'm second level while that eager fighter's still only first.

@Anaphory I guess I would have quoted the second source (without "sound") and cited it as normal. Then footnote the whole thing with a note that the source's quote appears to be taken from the earlier source, which had it as "blahblah sound andsoforth." That's assuming you actually prefer the "sound"less version for your purposes, but that the fact that the later source changed it is for some reason important.

Anaphory

Footnote the whole thing? Okay, sounds reasonable. Yes, the point there is that second source has been a promoter of sign languages in their own right and he says he hopes this will become the accepted definition, but my adressees won't be that familiar with the original definition or the dispute to notice that that is the difference.

doppelgreener

5:00 PM

@Anaphory It sounds like the quote is "system of arbitrary symbols" but you want to write "system of arbitrary sound symbols". The convention here used by the press is "system of arbitrary [sound] symbols", when you are inserting or substituting words to help make sense of a quote.

For example, a quote by someone saying "That guy has no idea what he's doing", in reference to Tony Stark, might be replaced by "[Tony Stark] has no idea what he's doing" in quote form.

Anaphory

Ah, no. The quote is "system of arbitrary symbols", and I want to highlight that it is precisely not "system of arbitrary sound symbols", as an implied but not explicitly mentioned source did have it.

doppelgreener

the faux pas here is to not change the meaning of the quote, which is avoided here.

nitsua60

@Anaphory So you need to specifically quote second source, because you're specifically commenting on that author's definition. But you need to point out (as part of the commentary) that this is a slightly different phrasing than the "original."

Is that about right?

doppelgreener

@Anaphory right. there's no way I know of to mark that inside the quote itself, so you just have to explain biefly, like in a footnote as someone else mentioned.

Anaphory

@nitsua60 Yep

@doppelgreener Good.

nitsua60

5:03 PM

I don't know how important it is to your analysis to discuss the change/evolution of this definition. That'd inform whether I footnote it or even throw a sentence or more into main body.

But to answer your original question, I know of no way to indicate this typographically. The only times I've seen this sort of thing come up is when an author is pointedly discussing the reasons for/development of differences and so explicitly talks about both sources severally.

Anaphory

I'm not sure how to present it yet, it's likely part of slides for an oral presentation, or a reading list of relevant literature sections for people taking part in that seminar. The question was indeed mostly whether there is an established way to mark it inside the typographic representation of the explicit quote.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 well, Jherala's only L3 :p

Anaphory

@nitsua60 In this context, my first parse of L2 was “as second language”. I should not derail this chat any further, thank you two for bearing with me :D

nitsua60

Well... it wasn't exactly hopping before. =)
In any case, I'm off to work.

doppelgreener

6:45 PM

Nonsense post, vote to delete please (likely more like a spam probe or something)

Shalvenay

7:10 PM

@doppelgreener I VLQ flagged it -- is that good enough?

doppelgreener

7:52 PM

@Shalvenay oh, maybe! @SevenSidedDie @mxyzplk Looks like one of you or Wax destroyed it and the account -- was that from the VLQ flag?

doppelgreener

8:29 PM

VTC no game/edition specified

SevenSidedDie

9:14 PM

@doppelgreener The spam flags and VLQ flags all put it into the mod queue (multiple flags on one post = only 1 notification, but containing multiple flags when it's looked at). It was either spam or someone very confused about how and where to Internet, so I removed it as spam/nonsense.

doppelgreener

okay, thanks! i wasn't clear on the interaction between flags and mod attention.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener It basically Does The Right Thing, which is nice. :)

I think we get VLQ flags with a bit of a delay to give the queue time to handle it, but that's also Doing The Right Thing.

Anything that urgently needs attention tends to get multiple flags, so we see it pretty quick.

Shalvenay

10:39 PM

hey there @Axoren

Axoren

@Shalvenay Yo.

Shalvenay