TRPG General Chat

doppelgreener

12:00 AM

@Miniman i'll find out in a few hours :) got some stuff to work on first

Miniman

@BESW Discussing the problems of D&D throughout the ages?

BESW

Whinging about it.

@Ethereal [wave] What's new?

Ethereal

hello

:D

Zachiel

heya

Miniman

@BESW You'll never hear me whinge about D&D. (Well 5th ed, at least). Unless it's to complain that it's just too awesome!

Zachiel

12:04 AM

You know what's really awesome?

This fried onion dish is.

user61230

Hello, @Ethereal!

BESW

@Zachiel Also the word grognardery.

user61230

Can we please all share a moment to respect our favorite vocabulary words?

Miniman

@Ethereal So, snuggling up to the chat biscuit, are you?

Ethereal

I am! I just opened it up

Lord_Gareth

12:07 AM

@Emrakul I do get a wonderful and unique feeling from saying 'Eviscerate' out loud.

Ethereal

so I figured I would check out all the hubbub

user61230

Cozenege, bailiwick, chirurgeonly, and sclerotic are among my favorites.

user61230

@Lord Hmm... have you tried shouting it? I've heard that improves the effect.

Miniman

Defenestration takes the top for me.

BESW

@Emrakul And/or makes you feel like a Potterverse wizard.

Lord_Gareth

12:09 AM

@Emrakul No, I find a subtle murmur to be best, typically while fingering a sharp, curved object

Ethereal

@Miniman aha! figured out the @ feature, that's neat. I'm glad you liked that terminology. I try to be at least entertaining even if I'm being rather dense.

Miniman

@Ethereal You can also reply to a specific message by hitting the arrow on the side.

Zachiel

@Ethereal And if you click on the small bent arrow next to the flag and the star you can see if you hover over a message, you can directly reply to specific messages

Ethereal

@Miniman thank you that helps

Zachiel

Ninjed, but -I was more exhaustive- u_u

Miniman

12:12 AM

@Zachiel Ninjas are never exhausted.

Lord_Gareth

The chat also has a hidden feature that permits you to summon demons of desolation and hate by mentioning certain words out loud.

4

doppelgreener

@gatherer818 Swearing-free version: Paizo boards are hostile (as in swarm of velociraptors) toward people who try to debate RAW.

Miniman

Paizo!

user61230

@Miniman NOOOOOOOO

Miniman

Pathfinder!

Zachiel

12:13 AM

@Lord_Gareth Seankreynolds

doppelgreener

VOW OF POVERTY

Miniman

Monks!

Lord_Gareth

Slow down guys, I can only kill so many people at one time

doppelgreener

[Nyarlathotep's tendril reaches through the void and into the chatroom]

user61230

Dungons and Dargons!

Lord_Gareth

12:13 AM

I need to get a list and MapQuest around

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth What the hell is a MapQuest?

Also, the stars are bright tonight.

doppelgreener

@Miniman It's the thing he'll use to find your house.

user61230

It's like a fetch quest, but all you're doing is tracing your finger on a map.

Miniman

@doppelgreener AOL still exists? You learn something new every day!

doppelgreener

@Miniman it does, as some kind of small tendrilly growth loosely linking much healthier organisms

Miniman

12:19 AM

@doppelgreener That...makes AOL sound better than it ever has before.

doppelgreener

I think, actually, it might now exist mainly in the form of simply owning other companies

user61230

Same thing with Yahoo.

wax eagle

I know they still have a mail service...not sure whether they still offer a ~~proxy~~ web portal

BESW

@Miniman Speaking of which, last night I dreamed I ran a Lovecraftian campaign where cultists used pop songs to summon ancient horrors.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Hello, Miniman, welcome to NetHack! You are a neutral male dwarf Ranger. The stars are bright tonight. Be careful!

Miniman

12:23 AM

@BESW Never gonna give Cthulu up! Never gonna let Cthulu down.

Str: 3d6

3d6

Dice Service

•

Miniman

@doppelgreener This Ranger's not looking good already...

BESW

@Miniman Little in the middle but Hastur's come back!

Lord_Gareth

Argh why did you have to remind me that 5e brought rolling for stats back

That disease was dead. DEAD

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth Actually, there's a standard point array.

I think there may even be a point buy system.

doppelgreener

12:27 AM

@Miniman rangers in nethack usually have pretty decent strength actually

user61230

Pshhh, rolling for stats makes the most sense.

user61230

I mean, it comes out right on average, right?

wax eagle

@Miniman there is

Miniman

But I've never met any players who didn't prefer rolling for stats anyway.

BESW

> That is not dead which can eternal lie...

wax eagle

12:27 AM

and in fact point buy/standard is required for org play

Lord_Gareth

@Emrakul The demon known as Murphy mocks your 'averages' from the blackest pits of Hell and weaves sorcery unknown to the quickling race of Man

wax eagle

@Miniman [raises hand] count me out of the stat rolling

user61230

@Lord If it's not working out, just make the average higher!

user61230

3d6+1d8, drop lowest!

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman You can't make me and I will die first

Miniman

12:29 AM

@waxeagle That's legit the first time anyone has said that to me. Every player in every game I've been in has chosen to roll.

wax eagle

I have no interest in something that crucial to my character's existence being decided by random chance...I won't be rolling for HP either, thanks :)

user61230

@Miniman There's the difference, though: when you roll, there's a chance that you can get something better!

user61230

Same reason people play the lottery. Sure, it could cost me something in the long run, but I could win something better!

Miniman

@Emrakul Exactly! I need 1 high score, and the others can be as bad as they want! Rolling can get that 1 score higher than the other methods ever could.

Lord_Gareth

@waxeagle On my end of things, I don't want things about my character's nature and personality - like their mental ability scores - out of my control. It's not even about power at that point, it's about I Have a Concept, And I Want to Execute It

BESW

12:31 AM

My players enjoyed the act of rolling, but often not the results. So in 3.5 we rolled, and took the elite array if it was better.

Miniman

Once I've got my Int 17 (18 on a good day), the other scores can all be under 10, I'm not fussed.

Especially in 5e where you really only need 1 stat.

BESW

My very first PC ever rolled two 18s.

Miniman

@BESW And probability cried in a corner.

BESW

It biased me for rolling for years afterward.

user61230

@Miniman We once rolled 17 1s in a row on 1d20.

user61230

12:33 AM

We all nearly died.

user61230

Except by miraculous saving grace cough

Lord_Gareth

Basically @Miniman, the thing with rolling is that it tends to create bad feelings, weird spreads, disable character concepts and force you to draft a personality around you ability scores

All of which gets filed under 'Screw that, seriously'

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth In my experience, rolling has only ever caused wild celebration at the appearance of an 18.

(Note that roll 4d6 take best 3 is required.)

user61230

And quiet disappointment at the appearance of an 8.

Miniman

Now, if it was roll for stats in order, I'd be first in line to say screw that.

Lord_Gareth

12:35 AM

@Miniman Be the guy who rolls a 4 like that

Be the guy who somehow landed straight 12's and 10's

And then tell me you're not upset

BESW

> And we'll never surviiiive you;
Earth'll run in our blood!
That apocalypse just ain't for us,
You'll rule without this human fuss...

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth I've seen it done, the guy put it in Wisdom and roleplayed it amazingly well.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Lord_Gareth nice League of legends reference

Miniman

I'd be upset at straight 12's and 10's because you need one really good score.

user61230

But here's the thing: with rolling, it's wholly possible that you can end up with scores that suck

user61230

12:37 AM

And 99% of the time, the GM will just say 'throw it out and roll again'

Miniman

@Emrakul Word up.

Lord_Gareth

Maybe more importantly, with rolling you don't get to come up with your concept before you roll

user61230

Which just shifts the average - may as well let the player decide, no?

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth Every one of my players had their concept before they rolled.

user61230

It defeats the purpose of rolling if we say "4d6D1, but if it's less than N, roll again."

Miniman

12:38 AM

Like I said, if it was roll for stats in order I wouldn't touch it with a 3d6 foot pole

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman How, praytell? How did they go about deciding on aspects like personality, education, intelligence, and backstory when all of these things inform & influence ability score selection?

doppelgreener

I've done something like: roll 4d6 drop lowest, do that 6 times to make an array. roll 3 such arrays. if an array has total modifiers below +X, discard it and roll up a new array to replace it. pick one of these arrays, arrange the stats how you like.

Miniman

@Emrakul Most DM's get a player to reroll the entire array if they end up with a sucky array, rather than individual rolls.

@Lord_Gareth Yep, pretty much. And placed their scores accordingly.

user61230

Point's still the same: if the scores are bad, make new ones

doppelgreener

@Emrakul yep

the fun of rolling plus the safety of half-decent stats

user61230

12:42 AM

Every step people add in the process just shifts the average up and tightens the curve

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Yeah screw that. I take deep pride in making my mechanics and fluff match as closely as I am able. I'm not about to settle for 'good enough' when I had something in mind and some RNG decided to screw me

user61230

If you're rolling enough sets, you'll eventually find one that's perfect for the character you want to create, which is what point-buy skips directly to

Phil

@Emrakul this, a million times this

Lord_Gareth

@Emrakul - Amusingly, this conversation has an ongoing example of Oberoni: "Everyone fixes rolling, therefore rolling has no problems."

No, rolling has common fixes

It's got plenty of problems

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth sure has

user61230

12:44 AM

@Lord_Gareth Oh gods

Miniman

It's got plenty of problems, but players still prefer it.

Disclaimer: based on sample of players I have played with.

Phil

@Miniman each to their own :op

Lord_Gareth

@Emrakul However, your statements have been fairly correct re: those fixes do help mitigate those problems

Phil

@Miniman you clearly play with some craaaaaaaaaazy people

user61230

@Lord_Gareth <3

user61230

12:46 AM

@Miniman Eh, if it's what the players want, then it's what the players want.

BESW

Based on conversations with my old players and what I've seen on this site, it's often a matter of constraints fuelling creativity.

Miniman

I gotta admit, this has been an eye-opener. Everyone I'd talked to before has taken it for granted that rolling is much preferred.

user61230

I'd be curious, though, @Miniman. If I wrote a program that generated six stats, and had you sit and discard the ones that were terrible and reroll the ones that were suitable, what the distribution would come out to.

BESW

(It's often framed as "more realistic," which is patent pablum rising from people being unable to self-analyse and express themselves.)

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Someone fetch this man the "There is No Such Thing as D&D" article

BESW

12:47 AM

But straight-up legit: being able to perfectly control the environment and choose all optimal options is not good for creativity.

user61230

@Miniman Here's what Lord_Gareth refers to. Basically, an exposition on how D&D means something completely different to everyone who's played it, ever.

doppelgreener

In my own experience: when my friends and I were new to D&D 4e (i.e. not that long ago) we preferred rolling to stats. So we rolled 4d6 drop lowest for six. Two of my four players had arrays they were pretty unhappy with (even if they were playable), so I proposed the three-arrays thing. That worked out better. Now we're in Fate, they have no problem with the fact it's by default point-allocation. (Not to imply they had problems with rolling they just took it in stride and never said anything.)

BESW

No Such Thing As D&D is written by our own @Magician. It, and other useful/interesting RPG links, can be found in my profile.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Of course not, but when it comes to building one's own character player agency is pretty important, no? After all, with uncommon exceptions players are often not involved with the worldbuilding, nor do they have input as to the overall tone or progress of the plot.

doppelgreener

@Emrakul Except that it reliably means you are probably using these rulebooks, and thus the game probably vaguely resembles so-and-so, unless you are playing in a rules-light-as-in-ignore-the-books game that is barely D&D at all but poses as such. But at least it means you're almost guaranteed to not be playing Dread or Fate.

(aaaaaaaalmost)

BESW

12:51 AM

@Lord_Gareth That depends on the players' attitude; many I've talked to like the challenge of being given a random set of stats which they need to adapt to. Remember, chargen is a solo minigame, and a game without some element of unpredictability is a lot less gamelike.

user61230

@doppelgreener I'm confused as to which statement you're responding to, sorry.

doppelgreener

(because games that don't like the D&D rules but don't want to play other games can get really weird with the extent to which they'll house-rule but still consider themselves to be playing D&D)

BESW

@doppelgreener Zachiel can talk about that experience.

doppelgreener

@Emrakul The one the bendy arrow will take you to. It does mean something different to everyone. The thing it does at least mean in common is that you probably are playing with something resembling the D&D ruleset.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Not everyone treats it as a minigame. When I'm making a character I have one goal: represent my concept. That concept is the tool with which I'll interact with the campaign world.

Building that tool isn't a game, it's a craft

doppelgreener

12:52 AM

@BESW Yep, he sure can

Lord_Gareth

And I don't want some random ass putting his hand in it

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Therein lies the difference in how you view rolling stats.

user61230

@doppelgreener Gotcha. Yup, makes sense

user61230

@Miniman I'm actually legitimately curious. Would you mind if we ran that test at some point?

Lord_Gareth

@BESW I don't understand how it can be viewed another way. Outside of hack-and-slash play, you're going to be spending 4 to 8 hours of game as this persona you're expressing mechanically. I presume you would like as much input as possible on who they are.

BESW

12:56 AM

@Lord_Gareth And yet, people do --magically-- have different attitudes than you. It is not illogical, it's just a matter of different play priorities.

user61230

@doppelgreener So, the highest 3 of 4d6 averages to 12.25, and there's a 50% chance you'll get at least 13. If you have them roll three sets, and they take the highest set, that average shifts to 14.61.

user61230

And the standard deviation drops by a whole point.

BESW

To some extent, simply the fact that you are using an RPG system instead of playing free-form means that you, too, are willing to sacrifice some level of input on your character and your play experience, handing it over to the rules and system, and to the GM.

Other players wish to go further with that than you do, but it's still just a matter of degrees.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW My play experience is fine. If I sit down to play a system like 3.PF I'm expecting a certain amount of reaction-action to happen

Which I suppose is why I'm so meticulous about characterization details

I want to know who that person IS

So I know how to react

Zachiel

In my groups I've seen very different attitudes towards RNG for character creation

some players take pride in being able to roleplay whatever the dice give them

some just hope in three 18s. Which they got.

BESW

12:59 AM

@Lord_Gareth And that's fine, I'm similar in my playstyle.

Zachiel

some are just nostalgic. The edition I started with did it that way, so that's what I want to do.

BESW

I'm just saying, the only real difference between sacrificing character control by limiting yourself to the system's rule options, and sacrificing control my rolling your stats, is that you know one of them ahead of time and can more easily predict its impact on the character. It is not such a fundamental paradigm shift as you're making it out to be--and even if it were, don't act like it's badwrongfun.

Zachiel

me, I sorta hate when the dice fall short, so I'm more for point buy. But I never seem to get enough points, and Point Buy does not like getting very high stats

doppelgreener

@Emrakul Sure, but players don't necessarily choose based on overall average. They pick based on the fact that this is the set with the 18 in it, or this one has two 16s, or this one has a 15 and 17.

('course, on average, they'll be more likely to be able to access good arrays like that)

Adeptus

@JoshuaAslanSmith I have a few games I've rebought on GOG & Steam by accident.

user61230

1:03 AM

That's fair. The merits of that method of rolling are not something I think I want to comment on at the moment, but just wanted to let you know :P

Zachiel

it's late. tt

user61230

It does almost double the chance of an 18.

doppelgreener

@Zachiel night!

@Emrakul Yeah, though, then again that's kind of the point ;) massively increases their chances of getting something good they'll enjoy using

rather than "these are your stats" ".... oh. ok."

BESW

I'm reminded of the Cthulhutech dice pool options.

doppelgreener

(which comes back to why LG does not like to roll at all)

@BESW What are those?

BESW

1:09 AM

Let's say you have 9d10 to roll on a DC 12 (average) task.

Before you roll, you can choose how to determine the result of the pool: highest die; sum of highest multiples; or sum of highest string.

9d10

Dice Service

6

10

2

3

9

3

5

8

BESW

With the first choice, you got a 10. With the second, also a 10 (highest multiple is two 5s). With the third, 27 (8+9+10)!

user61230

Sum of highest multiples = sum of numbers that are duplicated?

BESW

Yes.

There are two multiples: two 3s and two 5s. 5 is higher than 3, so add the 5s together.

Miniman

@Emrakul Sorry I wasn't here for a sec, I'd be happy to do this experiment.

And quite interested to see the results.

BESW

1:13 AM

(There's also game currency you can spend to add dice to your pool, even after you've rolled.)

user61230

Seeeeems like highest string is almost always the way to go?

user61230

@Miniman Sure! I'll write up something quick and dirty in a minute. Little busy, sorry.

BESW

So if I added 1d10 with a Drama Point...

d10

Dice Service

10

BESW

Now highest multiples is 20.

@Emrakul I haven't run the math on it yet, nor read the rest of the system to see how it interfaces with arcanotech, but --yeah, seems like.

Miniman

1:15 AM

@Emrakul All good, me too.

BESW

I'ma run some sample rolls in the back room.

doppelgreener

@BESW Define how "highest string" is determined. Is it the string of numbers of which the highest number is the highest?

BESW

@doppelgreener Yes, I think so.

doppelgreener

i.e. a string of [3 4 5 6 7] vs [9 10]: the former has a higher total (25), but the latter has a 10 in it, so you go with that

wax eagle

@BESW straight is a better word, no?

BESW

1:17 AM

That seems to be the intent.

user61230

I mean, I keep rolling strings of four on my desk. 7,6,5,4 that comes out to 22, and 8,7,6,5 that comes out to 26. I could just be getting lucky, but this in no way compares to either of the first two.

BESW

@waxeagle Yes, my bad. That's the word they use, now that I'm looking at the book again.

user61230

I haven't had a roll under 20 yet.

BESW

@Emrakul I just rolled three 6s, but no straight at all.

(And apparently in the system, you only roll a lot of dice if you're pretty good at something, so straights are less common than strictly 9d10 rolls indicate.)

user61230

And your highest straight of none is... a single die, so that's equivalent to the highest single die?

user61230

1:20 AM

Or is it just taken to be 0?

BESW

A straight is three or more consecutive numbers.

doppelgreener

@BESW Do you know why this mechanic exists?

BESW

@doppelgreener I'm assuming because in Cthulhutech you can do AMAZING AWESOME OVERPOWERED STUFF... but it's not guaranteed.

So you can go for the big numbers to succeed at something others wouldn't dare--but it's not like getting a flat mod on a d20; you could just fail miserably.

(And coming up 1s is very bad.)

(Like I said, I haven't read the rules for arcanotech and mechs yet, which I assume is where this gels.)

I thought of this mechanic in relation to rolling stats vs flat arrays: do you risk everything for awesome results, or guarantee relatively safe results without the possibility of intense awesomeness?

afk a bit

doppelgreener

I want to make an anydice graph of 9d10 take highest run or 9d10 take highest pair, but i have no idea how

but 9d10 take highest is going to be pretty safely a 9 or a 10 most of the time: anydice.com/program/4559

Adeptus

@doppelgreener In my current 3.5e game, the DM rolled a bunch of stat arrays, and let the players choose from them. I picked the one that let me have everything at least 10 (and one 17) after race mods. My wife picked the one that had an 18.

BESW

1:39 AM

@doppelgreener If you're less trained, you're lucky to have a 3 or 4d10 in the thing.

Lord_Gareth

....

@BESW Hold me. Someone just informed me that Racial Holy War exists

BESW

@Lord_Gareth ...unless that's a Chick Tract parody, nothing good can come of it.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW It's a deadly serious Aryan Superiority RPG

doppelgreener

I feel like we have already had all productive conversation we can have about this RPG

(in that we have not even begun discussing it XD)

Lord_Gareth

I could quote the introduction but that might actually cross several lines

Though I sorrowfully state that it's technically on-topic

wax eagle

1:42 AM

aye, just because it's on topic, doesn't mean it's a good idea

5

Miniman

Quick we need to flee this topic! I think Paizo is the greatest company in RPG history!

doppelgreener

oldest message in star list is now only 11 hours old. I like this chat room.

@Miniman WRYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman I dunno bro, they might have trouble competing with White Wolf's top-notch editing.

Miniman

@doppelgreener I'm sorry, I had to escape any discussion of the previous topic.

Lord_Gareth

[Pauses to listen to the sound of irony killing everyone]

Miniman

1:44 AM

Looks like I succeeded.

BESW

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth [takes 201d6 nonlethal irony damage, dies]

Miniman

Incidentally, I think the Soulbow is the best and most well-balanced class in 3.5.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Soulbow is the single-most functional form of soulknife, yes, and hovers at high tier 4 and eminently in the realm of playability. Why?

doppelgreener

Potential D&D monster: An Avatar of Irony. All damage it deals is strictly nonlethal. However, it deals such large quantities of nonlethal damage it still has a good chance of killing you.

BESW

1:46 AM

@doppelgreener Also it is a monk?

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth Oops. Maybe I should've run with monks.

doppelgreener

@BESW It cooouuuuld beeee

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman That also would have been difficult, as then monks would be competing with the perfection that is Commoner

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth The difference is, Commoner does what it's meant to do - be useless.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman I think you miss the thrust of the joke

And will now be buried under my tidal wave of chickens

Miniman

1:54 AM

I'm fine with both of those things.

Although you might as well explain the thrust of your joke.

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth Ha, I get it.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman All of the in-the-rules 'fixes' to make a 'viable' monk also create a 'viable' commoner

The common joke is that this means clearly commoners are OP

doppelgreener

Didn't someone here once have a player who put several levels into an NPC class like Commoner, for good reason?

Miniman

@doppelgreener I remember someone who had all their players start as commoners and slowly transition to adventurers.

6

Q: What happens if a commoner takes a prestige class?

I'm currently in a 3.5/pathfinder campaign. (Mostly 3.5, but since it's steampunk we're borrowing liberally from pathfinder as we find the need.) We started as commoners, the idea being that we would gain base classes as we began to act like heroes, and as circumstances warranted. Our fighter kil...

Adeptus

Speaking of things that should not exist... Hollaback Thriller Girl - a Michael Jackson / Gwen Stefani mashup

It's well done. It's just... wrong...

Lord_Gareth

2:03 AM

Excuse me while I shop that to my metalhead friends

So that I might feast on their suffering

Adeptus

They may actually like some of DJ Schmolli's other tracks, eg Queen Will Slay You

Lord_Gareth

Shh, I'm supposed to /hurt/ them

Hurt

Adeptus

Break their brain with Amon Amarth mashed with Katy Perry

Adeptus

2:20 AM

oops I killed the chat... pokes with stick

doppelgreener

@Adeptus [burbling noises]

BESW

I think I've linked Puddles' version of Royals here before.

(Not really a genre shift, but still a ridiculous premise that actually improves the song.)

Adeptus

@BESW I counter with Weird Al's parody, Foil. Second verse really takes it to the next level.

BESW

I do like that one.

Adeptus

Word Crimes is still my favourite off the new album

Miniman

2:46 AM

Every time I see a downvote on an answer I've given I feel like screaming 'no don't do this to me'

wax eagle

@Miniman after a while, you learn to shrug and move on. If there's a comment, sometimes it's actionable, if there isn't, you can scan and try to figure it out...but usually it's tough to do it

Miniman

@waxeagle I know all of these things. But deep down, there's still a little voice screaming why...

doppelgreener

@BESW @Adeptus Going to listen to both now in order :) I love both of these

BESW

@doppelgreener I feel that Puddles manages to take what was presented a whiny, self-justifying song that's really more about the narrator convincing herself of the thesis (rather than explaining the thesis to others), and he makes it a genuinely defiant (if somewhat melancholy) anthem.

Lord_Gareth

Argh Paizo posters hurting my soul. "3.5 was perfect until they ruined it with splats"

Miniman

3:01 AM

@Lord_Gareth While this is obviously untrue, splats complicate 3.5 to the point of unplayability.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Core did that.

Hence why there is no such thing as D&D

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth So...remind me how you're making a living?

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman I cut meat in a supermarket deli. Your move.

Matt Giltaji

@Miniman i never found 3.5 that complicated

ducks

Miniman

@MattGiltaji Depends how many splatbooks you allow. With none, I'd agree it's not particularly complicated at all. ducks also

Lord_Gareth

3:03 AM

The point being, 3.5's great strength - possibly its only strength - is the sheer weight of options. It means you can do almost anything in the rules - which, in a super-legal system, is a blessing.

doppelgreener

Jun 5 '13 at 3:53, by Jonathan Hobbs

The knowledge my companions had seemed arcane to me - they understood stuff and could tell me what it meant and it made sense but I had no idea how they actually knew the stuff they were telling me, and their interpretations of mechanics made sense once I heard it but it took them knowing stuff I didn't to arrive at that interpretation.

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth If only there was a game system that had inspired another game system that had companies that wrote additional material for it that would hire you.

doppelgreener

it was pretty ungraspably complex to me

Miniman

@doppelgreener I started in the PC games, great way to learn.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Pathfinder is not less complex.

Miniman

3:05 AM

@Lord_Gareth I didn't say it was. I said it would be great if it existed so you could make money from it :P

Also, what is not less complex?

Lord_Gareth

I know you were there for when they linked that, @Miniman

doppelgreener

@Miniman he might make some money from it, but it's more likely he makes a starving from it. the deli job is his living.

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth There being at work where I don't follow links.

Lord_Gareth

@Miniman Essentially there is no unified D&D experience, which is a symptom of several factors

The biggest one being that D&D lies to you like a filthy cheating cur

Matt Giltaji

@Lord_Gareth i roll a sense motive check!

doppelgreener

3:08 AM

everyone houserules their own thing, plays different types of games which the system doesn't do a good job of supporting (and so houserules more), bans or permits different manuals or mechanics or classes or etc

Miniman

1d20

Dice Service

20

Miniman

@MattGiltaji You can see through any lie.

Matt Giltaji

NICE

sorry, never seen the 1d20 command before

Miniman

@MattGiltaji There's a room for playing with the dice commands

It's partially my fault, but we definitely needed it.

Lord_Gareth

3:10 AM

You know, Weird Al actually re-did a song theme, and this surprises me

His latest album has this little ditty: youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A

BESW

Dice roller & formatting tests playgr…

The roller supports: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20. You can roll ...

Lord_Gareth

youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZVElgotdM <-Which he already did

user61230

@Miniman Alright, I have the program

Lord_Gareth

In any event @Miniman, that'd be the whole, "There is no such thing as D&D" bit

user61230

I can send you a .jar, or if you'd like to look and run it, I can send you the source

Miniman

3:13 AM

@Emrakul Send me the source! I'm excited now, I assumed you'd just do it in chat

BESW

@Lord_Gareth He'll touch on the same themes if he has something new to say; in this case, it's definitely a different approach and tone. The social commentary is repositioned.

user61230

NetBeans good, or just the .java file? (There's only one source file)

Miniman

@Emrakul .java please. NetBeans is for Apple users shakes fist

user61230

I'm running NB on Windows? Have been for a long, long time? But sure!

Miniman

@Emrakul Sorry, I have so much enterprise-y stuff I'm pretty much locked in to Eclipse.

BESW

3:16 AM

@Lord_Gareth WDTAHTM is about misdirecting trauma into triva; FWP is about privilege, consumer culture, and overindulgence.

user61230

Fair enough! Here's the file.

user61230

Pretty simple, just writes to out.csv

user61230

Ideally enter a high number of iters, but whatever you feel you have time for. It goes by pretty quickly.

Miniman

@Emrakul I see this becoming the RPG.SE personality test - how spoilt are you about your stat arrays?

user61230

We should create a website for it!

BESW

3:20 AM

@Miniman "Ability scores? what are those?"

Miniman

@BESW Quiet, you narrativist.

BESW

(Which is another thing I found... cute... about that "one-sheet RPG" article; it was so obviously and obliviously focused on D&D-likes.)

Miniman

@BESW Sorry, which article?

doppelgreener

I just noticed Pathfinder has a write-up for Cthulhu (YMMV). It refers to him as being imprisoned in his tomb in R'lyeh, until such time he's released. Is that accurate?

BESW

@Miniman This one. It popped up in the chat feed earlier today.

Lord_Gareth

3:22 AM

@doppelgreener AHAHAHA

Pathfailure fluff

Don't listen to it

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, hence my asking.

BESW

@doppelgreener He's dead. And sleeping. Or both. Roll insanity.

doppelgreener

I don't imagine Cthulhu could be imprisoned anywhere

1d6

Dice Service

•

doppelgreener

[loses it]

BESW

3:23 AM

[hands Insanity token]

doppelgreener

[burns the Paizo shelf at each friendly local gaming store]

Miniman

@BESW Huh. I can't think why you would want to create your own system under someone else's constraints. Surely the only reason to make your own system would be to avoid other people's constraints? (Has no interest in creating own system.)

BESW

@doppelgreener Roll to succeed; if you do, roll to lose 1 Insanity.

doppelgreener

3d6

Dice Service

•

doppelgreener

3:24 AM

(in my mind the last dice was the insanity one. Phew.)

BESW

I'd roll a failure die, but your 6 makes it impossible to fail.

Roll to lose 1 Insanity.

doppelgreener

1d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

You're at 4 Insanity. [takes token back]

doppelgreener

\o/

BESW

3:26 AM

(For the uninitiated, we were using the free-to-download two-page cthulhu-dark rules; link in the tag wiki.)

doppelgreener

That was cathartic

Miniman

@Emrakul That is very pretty Java. Have a badge for successfully knitting a scarf out of spaghetti.

(Mostly joking, I'm fine with Java. Mostly.)

BESW

BTW, @doppelgreener, what is your profession, that it's within your expertise to set fire to bookstore merchandise?

user61230

@Miniman Ahh, thank you! And yeah, it's a... verbose language. I think it works well when it works, though, so I don't mind. /shrug

Miniman

@Emrakul It was a bit broken, line 30 should be return str.trim().equals("y");

Otherwise someonce could go through 50 iterations and get back 0's for every array

user61230

3:34 AM

Oh, whoops, I was just using a new line to mean true

user61230

Want a new room for these tests?

Miniman

Up to you, I was just going to do it again and send you the result

user61230

Fair enough!

user61230

I'm just used to "Y/n" meaning "default Y" and "y/N" meaning "default N," but forgot to actually check for a literal 'y' or 'n' >__>

BESW

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.

2

user61230

3:35 AM

@BESW Works for me!

BESW

@Miniman Well, I can see an argument that a system you like, if it's particularly unwieldy, could be trimmed down to just the bits you like.

doppelgreener

@BESW IT professional. Killing unthinking things with fire and extreme prejudice is part of the job.

3

(The unthinking things may still be alive at that point)

BESW

(Especially if there's a lot of the system you don't use in your games because of your playstyle.)

@doppelgreener Fair enough, but don't expect to get away with that in a proper game. (Although I'd let you roll the profession die to decipher scripts not meant for human ken.)

3

...we do not have a tag for Og. Huh.

doppelgreener

@BESW Yeah I probably wouldn't have done that had I paused to think a few more seconds :)

BESW

And tangentially, I still really love the elegance and functionality of CD.

It's the little black dress of horror gaming systems.