Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed that the first system tag that's not D&D is #22 (WoD)

Also, wow, almost a quarter of our questions are 4e

Also just found out that there's a giant gamer meetup every Tuesday like two blocks from my apartment. Very excited to check it out.

@waxeagle gm-techniques is probably beatable, although it'll take a while. 4e, 3.5, and PF I can't see being taken down

@Grubermensch awesome!

@Grubermensch yeah, 4e is huge, but it's been the latest D&D release the site's whole life until recently

@waxeagle Tabletops aren't mentioned explicitly, but there is a sizable board games focus, so I have hopes.

that's a start at least. hopefully there will be at least a few tabletoppers there

Yay

I don't even have a FLGS

Our FLGS has never heard of anything except D&D.

...

Could be worse, I guess.

@BESW Wait, there are things other than D&D?

The idea of selling packs of d6s made him scrunch up his face in confusion.

Um...

Do they expect people to roll fireballs with one die?

He has D&D polyhedrons which you can buy in the typical D&D set or individually, and he's very proud of his drawer of individual-sale blank d6s.

@BESW Blank d6's?

Blank?

Six-sided dice with no markings.

Yes, I understand that they are blank

@BESW Isn't that just a useless cube?

I am confused as to why

The idea is that you can use markers/stickers/etc to customise them.

Erm.

@BESW That seems as ridiculous as the whole 'expensive figurines which you have to paint and assemble yourself'

Still brings to mind why you aren't buying a cube from somewhere else.

@Miniman Actually, to a point that one makes more sense.

@Arkhaic I understand it's part of that hobby, but it makes no sense to me. If I've paid the money, why should I have to do half the work?

I recently found out my FLGS will order in Reaper miniatures. But only the Bones range (I think their supplier was in the Bones Kickstarter). I got some as gifts for my newbie players, and some monsters that I couldn't resist

@Miniman There are prepainted miniatures out there.

You buy the unpainted ones so you can paint on them.

Because there are people that can do so much better than the ones that are storebought

I was talking about wargamers, not RPG miniatures

@BESW Blank d6's actually sounds really useful. I can make my own fate dice, or random result dice, or dice with coloured faces, or custom designs for games that need those, or so on.

And I can pick one up and make my own thing with it. For something homebrewed, or my own game, or so on.

Sounds like it has a lot of point, I like it.

@doppelgreener maybe if these are well made, I was under the impression that they were selling plastic cubes

What is the difference between blank dice and plastic cubes? What is the difference between normal d6's and plastic cubes with numbers/dots on?

@Arkhaic well, yes, that is what they are selling. So I buy one, and get out my permanent markers, and make my own thing with them.

we have so many bones coming in a few weeks... KS2 should be shipping soon.

Is there any particular difference in quality than what I can make myself, is essentially what I'm asking.

also if you like bones..and mechs, they have an ongoing KS...

@Arkhaic Can you make plastic cubes?

Because if I want to make my own thing I'd dig out some wood.

@doppelgreener For a not-unreasonable investment, easily. 3D printers are becoming less expensive

@Arkhaic Ok, sure, you can do that. And for those of us who won't be doing that (like me; I don't have the tools to make it properly even), the blank cubes will be pretty handy.

@doppelgreener they're still probably selling them for way more than I would want plastic cubes for.

Stores for teachers are incidentally very good for this.

@Miniman ... that's kind of nuclear though. That's $100+ on a printer and printing plastic, so that you can avoid spending $X on some plastic cubes.

100 cubes for $25 rather than 12 cubes for $11

@doppelgreener I wasn't suggesting that you should buy one specifically for cubes, they're pretty versatile

At no point did BESW actually say how much they cost at his FLGS, so let's not go making assumptions they're overpricing them. We have no information about that.

Based on whether the edges are rounded and they are called dice or not.

@doppelgreener I'm looking up blank dice.

a variety of blank dice including polyhedral, from an Australian online store

But generally specific things are more expensive than the generic

I would be curious how well 3d-printed plastic holds up to impacts

I probably would pay for blank dice that are something other than d6

Sure, I was just saying that the blank d6 aren't useless. I'd buy 'em.

Or rather, I can foresee circumstances in which I would buy them, or would have bought them in the past were they available.

They aren't useless, but it's like buying a ten-foot pole instead of a ladder.

You can get equivalent things elsewhere.

Selling them as dice is probably a sign that they'll be more expensive

exception: printplaygames.com/product/16mm-blank-dice

@Arkhaic I think that analogy kinda broke down before it got going. I woulda bought them to make Fudge dice in the time after I bought Fate Core, and before the Fate Dice kickstarter started and got shipped, because at the time I had no fudge dice and nobody sold them. Alternately, make my own thing.

I live in Australia. Special dice are generally not sold here or take a very long time and lots of money to ship.

Make my own thing includes my own effect dice to mimic ones I've seen, or, y'know, if I'm making my own game and want to experiment with special dice for it.

@doppelgreener I am suggesting that buying plastic cubes is cheaper than dice, and more likely to be found in stores.

@Arkhaic Alright, sure.

That was my point from the start.

You're buying a ten-foot pole when you can buy a ladder for cheaper and get two.

I wasn't really aware there was a difference between dice and plastic cubes.

@doppelgreener ^ see my link. MilSims has a decent range, at reasonable prices. Just don't backorder from them, I'm still waiting on a couple things from an order in February...

@Adeptus Ouch...

Neat, though. I have learned about a new store.

@doppelgreener Yeah. I've bought from them before, lots of times, with no issues, but I think this is the first time I've backordered something that was out of stock.

@doppelgreener the site I linked also has them, and actual beat the school supply place on prices. But that's the exception rather than the rule.

(those blank d10s also look neat)

A quick search also turned up d6 & d8 versions with indented faces, so stickers are less likely to peel (or markings are less likely to rub off).

That sounds useful too.

@Arkhaic Shiny. Those look like they do something... different. Does that inner section slide around?

It looks like it.

I've been buying from Milsims since the early 90s, when they were mail-order (before the www went mainstream). They used to have a Crazy Specials page in each catalog, got some great bargains from there.

@Dorian A character idea specifically?

My idea was Yoda-esque Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (no epic feats, that was ruled out) Warlock/Arcane Swordsage/Eldritch Theurge. Going for a bit of a Glaivelock build. The Sublime Way was very thematically appropriate, and Arcane SS was shot down. Yes, other casters can pull it off, but not in the same way and doesn't gain the same types of abilities.

Given the other characters, I'd say some sort of combat mage, with area-effect spells etc. (But that's more a functional role than a character concept)

The latter is an idea I like and can play well, but I'm not too keen on actually doing it right now, been playing that thematic for far too long, wanna play something else. I wanna play my Yoda VDK build REALLY badly but I can't.

The VDK Blaster would get old fast. Yes, it'd work. Yes it'd be quite good at what it does. But it'd be boring.

I want to play something unusual though, something not often seen, but works and has an interesting thematic to it. I'd love to see something like a Rogue/Warlock working combo, or better yet a Warlock/Shadowcaster, but both of those combos have little synergy.

@Dorian If you'd like to experiment with something new, try this: pick something you habitually depend upon and use often. Ban it. Like, "not allowed to deal damage to single targets." Or "not allowed to deal damage." Something that will make you stop and think how you'd build a character around that constraint. Then do so.

You can ban a broad category, or several things, etc.

I have considered a Glaivelock + Sneak Attack build, but idk how I'd make it work well together.

Or, alternately, pick something you never really think of using much. Build a character that is majorly into doing that thing.

I'm wanting to play something that is NOT a sneaky trapper/skirmisher type. I usually play those.

I like gish builds, but there is a limited way of making them fun and flavorful. I like the thematic of the Warlock (and the Shadowcaster but I know that doesn't work worth a damn) and I don't particularly like being off in the distance going 'pewpew'

Ok. Someone who's a fan of direct and open confrontation. Maybe the kind of guy who even finds attacking someone from behind to be distasteful. Glorious combat for Kord! He might get along well with the hulk smash and the trip god.

But I can't get in the way of the HULK SMASH really.

Problem with hulk smash is he has a tendency to take out groups on his turn. And he does AoE on a crit.

(Though, this doesn't necessitate being a melee attacker. He just likes his enemy to know he's there. Otherwise the combat's hardly fair! Or so he thinks.)

Shit almost killed my sneaky archer.

Would have killed him if I didn't make my save for that matter.

It wasn't designed to be super-effective, so I don't know how min/maxed it could get, but I once created a fire mage with the sadist and masochist qualities from BoVD. He'd give himself fire resist, then run into melee and fireball himself, gathering bonuses from damaging others AND from damaging himself.

(He perished to a mob of zombies that exploded for minor damage when they died.)

In all honesty the Yoda idea started from a buddy of mine saying to go Swordsage, Arcane Swordsage (as separate classes) Jade Phoenix Mage, and Master of the Nine. I added the Warlock flavor and tweaked it and game about with the sort of idea I had

I like the flavor surrounding ToB and The Sublime Way, but I can't use it in tandem with alot of the unusual classes because alot of those classes were never expanded on.

Or just plain suck.

Any particular reason you don't want to just use ToB content by itself?

Mostly because I don't want a flat out melee dude. And that's really what you get from ToB no matter how you work it.

I'd be getting in people's way most likely.

Fair enough.

I did once make a "Captain America Throws His Shield" build from ToB, but it was... kinda niche.

@Dorian Bloodstorm Blade says hi

@Lord_Gareth I think that's what I used.

Also Warblade Archery Builds, relying on the Mongoose maneuver lines and certain boosts & stances for utility

Warblades make amazingly respectable archers

I know both of those routes @Lord_Gareth, but firstly... Archery. I'm VERY sick of it. Secondly, throwing was usually a meh thing for me.

Eh, if that's the case, it's the case.

Though I should note that B.Blade is less "throwing" and more "all of your melee is now ranged"

They throw greatswords. Or, in one case, boomeranging grizzly bears

I'm currently playing a Rogue/Scout with a lvl dip in Ranger and Swordsage, lvl9. Archery focus. Very good. VERY high stealth (I currently have a +31 to hides) Dropping 11d6 in extra damage right now from Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Raptor Arrows, (all from a simple +1 longbow)

I am essentially a ninja archer build. High acrobatics, high stealth, high damage. I've learned several lessons from this build over the course of using it, and I may enjoy making it again at some point, but I know that I'll soon reach a point where I can no longer keep up with the party. In fact, I'm at my peak now. There's little else I can do now that I've painted myself in a corner with him. I got all the good stuff there is to get, and I took things I shouldn't have.

I built a sniper, and did it well.

So you want mostly melee, but not pure melee?

@Dorian What do you think of current suggestions from BESW, LG and Adeptus? (and myself, though I didn't suggest a build so much as a way to approach your character so that they wouldn't be sneaky)

LG's suggestions are nice but not particularly what I'm going at here. BESW's sadomasochist pyromancer looks entertaining but no :P lol Hmm... the throwing in general is a bit meh for me, always has been. Not sure why but that's how it is. Adeptus's suggestion would likely bring alot of friendly fire, and if I accounted for it that's still a very classic straightforward mage build.

Yours fit pretty well along with the Yoda build idea I was working. The whole idea was to walk in appearing all peaceful and when they wouldn't be peaceful move rapidly and drop the arcane pain

What's the problem with the suggestions from LG and BESW specifically? It's helpful to know what you dislike, so that we can know what to avoid and what to target specifically. Is there something unfun about the concept? Something that won't work given your table's constraints? Will it just be a problem considering other party members?

(Have you tried having a conversation with the Hulk Smash player so as to ensure they don't hulk smash you too, and especially not because It's What His Guy Would Do?)

He has a tendency to hulk smash, and then crit when someone's close to him. It's not what he would do, it's more like he generates ALOT of collateral damage.

He has a sonic crit that delivers half his damage. And his crit damage is often close to or over a hundred.

Ok, so he sort of makes the melee combat zone a no-go.

Yeah. Anywhere within like 5-10 feet of him is a death zone.

For friend and foe.

I'm kind of surprised he's not already dead as a result of singling out himself as the only guy able to enter melee safely.

Anyone who isn't built to soak alot of damage is going to die if they stand too close to him. He has already demolished the entire front end of a tavern repeatedly.

He has alot of hitpoints, and Mithril Tornado

And most of the time EVERYONE is tripped near him thanks to the trip god.

Who effectively says "I trip them" to everyone within 30 ft of him.

BEFORE popping enlarge person. =_= his arm's reach is 15 ft

he pops enlarge person when needed and gets 60 ft range.

Welp. Ok, so, what's wrong with LG's thing?

And I am totally not kidding. I've seen maybe two creatures get lucky and NOT wind up on the ground when he targeted them. And only one that was strong enough to actually resist regularly.

I gather the pyromancer out because just... being in melee is out.

Sick of archers. Very.

And throw builds never did it for me.

....... Go to a different table where you can actually be viable within 60 feet of your enemies and survive being near your friends?

(Yes, I know it's 'your melee is now ranged' still similar thematic)

No other known table. All roll20 also. I know of one group right now playing 3.5, and this is it.

So, to summarise, unusual, thematic, not pure caster, not sneaky, not melee, not archery, not throwing?

@Miniman Kinda. Melee can work if I can get out. So I'd need to be able to move in, attack, and move out. That's why the Yoda worked, I had the mobility and some reach and capability to pull that off.

What about the whatchamacallit--scout? The one with skirmish dice.

Pure caster can even work, but not the archetypal Wizard/Sorcerer builds.

Pardon my language but HELL NO

Current chara is already doing that.

Also, would melee with sonic immunity work?

@Miniman There's a trip god.

@Miniman Might, but I still would want to add a unique flavor.

@Dorian trip god affects allies?

No he doesn't.

It's only the smasher that affects allies atm.

@Dorian Yeeeah, now you're just being confusing. You said you might be interested in melee if it can do exactly what your current character is doing, but you refuse to do what your current character is doing.

@Dorian Yep, just trying to establish your criteria

My current character is archery.

Flat out sniper archery. I would still need mobility, but the problem with the Scout class is that it is rather crap on its own.

Then say that. Don't say "my current character is already doing that" when what you mean is "the class you suggested is not optimised to my liking."

What about a Flyby Attack-er?

Skirmish advances very slowly, and currently most of the party is quite optimized without even trying that much.

Or Rideby, but that's trickier

A buff/debuff master, like a bard concept if not the bard class itself?

This group seems to enjoy taking T3/4 range classes and turning them into powerhouses.

Cleric is essentially buff/debuff.

Terrain modifier?

Heal/buff/debuff. That's literally his full on role.

Terrain would affect the smasher most likely, and the Trip God handles CC for the most part.

Coordinate with the smasher to create effects he can ignore/take advantage of.

Right now, my character has been stealthy scout type plus high single-target damage output. This works well with the group especially when it comes to taking down boss types, but I'm frustrated with it both because I could have made it much better, and also because I see that wall ahead of me.

At one point I had a fun build around the Aglarond Gryphon dude, but I can't remember the details

I was going to go for an arcane+high damage potential type of build with an unusual flavor.

Whether it be an odd faux-gish, or just flat out arcane with weird powers. I'm back at the drawing board right now though.

It sounds like you're the kind of player who enjoys doing unique/different stuff. That's fine. But it sounds like this table doesn't leave you room to do that at present. Or the game doesn't.

Both, to a high degree almost. However there is the whole, I'm stuck in a role.

I'm stuck in this group. And I'm stuck in this role.

I can't seem to budge out of it. Every idea I come up with either won't work with this group, or won't work with this game.

What makes you stuck in that group?

I literally have no other group to play with.

Right, so, find another. We have a bunch of questions on the site about that.

Also, I very much enjoy playing with one of the groups.

@Dorian Not presently, though, apparently!

One of the players*

You could also have a conversation with them in the likes of: "I can't do anything fun here. Could we talk, and reconsider our builds so as to leave me room to do something I find fun, without fearing death or just overlapping with someone else?"

The DM frustrates me quite often. The story has me quite interested. I enjoy the characters very much. The problem is right now every viable idea leaves me with the choice of risking my neck, slipping into something redundant, or just winding up bland.

Yes. So, talk to them about this.

As for rebuilds... I wouldn't ask that of anyone firstly. And secondly, retraining in this game literally takes a year per character level.

So it is not a viable option for anyone.

It was effectively disallowed with that ruling =_=

So your DM is not on your side with this?

The DM is not on anyone's side with anything. He works with you to a certain extent, but I just have the tendency to have ideas he won't allow. Every freaking time.

What I am suggesting isn't that you ask them to do a bunch of ingame retraining. What I am suggesting is that you talk to a bunch of people who are doing the virtual equivalent of sitting at a table with pieces of paper rolling dice for fun. Talk to them about how you are finding it hard to find a way to have that fun everyone is there for. Propose they change what is written on those (virtual) pieces of paper, and resume the game with slightly different characters.

@Miniman I think I just overrode your edit.

The worst part is I'm even working within RAW and house rules. One of his house rules for example was no alignment restrictions except for Paladin and Knight. That worked great, until I wanted a dip in Assassin for one concept. Then the rule became "no alignment restrictions on BASE CLASSES except for Paladin and Knight"

No retraining, just the characters adjust, dropping certain traits and picking up others, no large retconning necessarily, etc.

Retraining = YEARS

No retraining

@BESW All good, you fixed what I was fixing anyway

I am not suggesting retraining

These are highly optimized characters. Dropping traits and picking up others would involve retraining or retiring the chara altogether.

By highly optimized I mean they are very good at precisely what they're already doing, and trying to go elsewhere would cripple them in both.

I am suggesting the kind of thing where the group talks, then the other three characters erase certain things on their sheets, replaces them with other things, and then the game continues from where it left off before. In the middle of the cave, whatever. Notice this isn't an ingame solution? Nothing happens ingame. Just people change their character sheets, based on an agreement to do some things to leave you room to have fun.

@Dorian Wait a sec. Ignoring the other players, what build would you want to do? From the way you've been shooting down or ignoring suggested ideas, it seems like you have something specific in mind.

That would not be allowed out of game.

A rebuild / readjustment to leave you room for fun.

The DM does not allow those.

@Miniman Yeah, something you can't do inside your current party, @Dorian.

You want to erase something and change it, you must retrain.

I have alot of ideas, most I don't even get that interested in. Currently, my favorite idea isn't allowed by the DM.

Ok. Then [shrug] I dunno man. Find a different table, go join that one. You've shot down virtually every idea given to you and you're not having fun despite the fact you do enjoy the company (so find some other way to enjoy that company).

@Dorian What I'm saying is, asking the chat for build ideas is very clearly not working for you. So why not change the question to be 'How can I make such-and-such a build work with this party?'

@Miniman That could go somewhere.

Classic SE - if none of the answers are right for you, you're probably asking the wrong question.

Or perhaps asking how I can make a style of build fit a style of flavor without pulling most of it out of my rear...

though in both cases I have no idea what to ask right now.

Ah well, it was a thought.

Are there any Wis based Arcane spellcasters?

I don't think so, but my knowledge is not especially comprehensive

And now I'm hungry to top it all off and the pizza joints are closed. As is the sixpack shop. =_= today is not my day.

The only thing I could find as a Wis arcane caster was the Arcane Swordsage...

If you're thinking about Yoda, I'm pretty sure his flavour is 100% monk

I just noticed our site has at least 2 questions in online-roleplaying on "I want to GM, how do I find players?", but not one on "I want to play, how do I find an existing group?"

And that has been disallowed.

@Dorian Wait, your DM banned monks?

I was trying to come up with an appropriate simile for how ridiculous that is, but I've got nothing.

@Dorian Whilst I'm here, to this message in particular: you do not presently have another option you know of, but nothing is really obstructing you from searching for another. (And I expect you'll have the opportunity to return to play with the individual whose company you enjoy later, probably.)

No, I'm dealing with lag.

And connex issues.

At least, I'm presuming nothing is really obstructing you.

DM disallowed Arcane Swordsage

Not even so much banned, but disallowed. As in, it was greenlight due to RAW which he pretty much sticks to, but then banned the moment I brought it up because it's not detailed, and thinking about it is too much work. (and I am not kidding about his reasons)

I deal with lag too.

Maybe not your kind, but I'm gonna call you out on it if you think finding another group online is impossible.

That's the thing. I enjoy playing with the specific characters

I also love the world.

Yeah, but they leave you in the space where you can't have fun playing your own, and the DM's a butt.

Everything works but I'm the third wheel so to speak right now.

I can't find something I both enjoy and plays well in the group. And when I do the DM won't allow it

Yeah, or the fourth wheel on a well-powered tricycle.

He also has no problem taking things from material he has banned and throwing it at us.

The rules are confusing at best, and while these guys have been playing in it for IDFK how long, I have not.

I once ran a game where I said "Everything is available to you, but I won't use anything from any book against you unless a PC has also used content from that book." It was silly, of course, but created an interesting dynamic.

Sounds like you need to confront your DM. With or without the group being present. (Probably with.) You'd like to play, but you don't enjoy the spaces available for you to play in, and apparently he has rulings that are preventing you from having fun, because you can't do the stuff you want and people can't change/retcon/rebuild to let you have fun.

I am a fifth wheel on this 3PC/1DM car.

Also, your group is probably buying way too much into D&D's idea that the DM has absolute authority, and the DM is over-exerting it under that illusion.

The DM does have absolute authority unless a good chunk of the group is against him. That's how it's been in every game I've played in (D&D or not)

@Dorian Yeah, it's an illusion the D&D manuals are happy to foster, and not the case in a lot of games.

The problem is, there's really only one person that doesn't like alot of these rulings (or at least is unhappy enough to attempt to challenge them) and that is me unfortunately.

I have not heard a "I have tried talking about this with my group and it has failed" yet, so I'm gonna assume you haven't, and I am suggesting you try it.

(Currently I'm playing the Dresden Files RPG playtest for Fate Accelerated, and the GM is leaning on us to create the story, mostly.)

Alot of games I've played, the group and the GM work together. But in the end if the group is cool with something, the GM ruled it, and ONE GUY doesn't like it. That one guy is usually booted or forced to conform.

My problem is I tend to think so far outside of the box that I've forgotten where the box is. So... yeah. I'm always that one guy.

^ go try it.

half the group is of the not talking type.

In fact, most of the group is.

they're the type that are hard to get in contact with in the best of times.

took me 2 weeks at one point to get responses from them.

RP wise, they do RP, but they're not RP heavy.

the one guy that got me into this group, I've spoken to him at length about it

the DM is also hard to get in contact with at times...

It feels like what is currently happening is this:

We are playing a transactional analysis game, wherein you have a difficult situation, you ask us for a whole lot of options, you reject all those options, and are left in a situation where you feel justified doing nothing, despite having a ton of viable options presented to you.

Which achieves a survival goal psychologically and is probably happening entirely subconsciously, but that's what's happening.

I suggest you watch that video for an explanation of what is happening right now here with what you are doing.

After this, either allow this transactional game to be fulfilled and allow yourself to feel justified in doing nothing totally successfully. Or, take one of the many suggestions that has been given to you over the course of this conversation, and work with it, or do something different.

Problem is I do need suggestions, and I was about to leave in a "well frick I'm screwed" type of mood.

I don't need or want attention. What I'm looking for is an idea that pings and I don't know what that idea is.

@Dorian Yep, there you go, that's the result of this transactional game: you get to walk off deciding you're screwed, instead of doing any of the many many things that have been suggested.

It's not about attention.

The many things that were suggested class build wise didn't ping. The things that were suggested to change the group are either not within my power or not within what I would do. I'm not about to ask if the other players will change their characters so I can have fun.

You might seem to have really good reasons for not doing any of this stuff, but that is just this particular transactional game down to the tee.

As for leaving, I'd be leaving feeling more dejected and helpless than I started. I started with the mindset of trying to find a good idea. At the moment, I'm leaving with the impression that the only good idea is to leave the group.

So, I reiterate: take one of these many suggestions you have turned down and act on one. (Try it!) Or, succeed at the game of justifying doing nothing.

It won't be very fun, but you'll get the subsconscious psychological payoff this entire conversation has been for.

(Or building up to, maybe, once everything got shot down.)

Which really makes me feel small, helpless, and worthless. I'm used to that feeling, it pervades my life. But I fight it day in and day out.

I'm not looking for a payoff. I'm looking for an idea that sparks an interest.

Have you tried talking to the group about this?

@Dorian This transactional stuff is almost always not conscious.

"Guys, I'm having trouble finding a cool character concept that'll work with your characters. Do you have any ideas what we can do?"

Like, really, here's how you win here: try one of these things. And maybe fail at it in the process. But try it.

@BESW Sounds good.

I asked that.

Know what I got?

The build that got shot down by the Dm.

The smasher and the cleric don't input much. The trip god's player is the guy who's been giving me ideas thus far.

And tbh? I'm pretty sure if I asked Hulk and Cleric they'd tell me my current character is perfect as he is.

Just today I made it open and clear that I intended to swap out my current character by some means. The DM knew, and the Trip God knew, but Hulk and Cleric didn't. Their response was absolute silence.

Throwing: never, ever liked it. Standard casters: very boring. Standard melee: gets in the way of the rest of the group. Archery: I've been doing that to the point it's sickening. Flyby Attack: I like this, I want(ed) this, what do I DO with it though?

As far as I can tell, that sums up every idea presented that are straight up build suggestions.

Nonstandard caster suggestions, like self-immolation and terrain modification, were also made.

Self-immolation involves being in melee range.

And terrain modification... I can't even figure out what you mean by that, because as far as I can tell that's AoE CC stuff.

Which is a rather standard caster in my book. CC Wizard.

"Crowd control" is an MMO term, applied inconsistently to the tabletop RPG continuum.

@Dorian Does that go around in weird circles and leave everyone worn?

Terrain modification means changing the context of the battle to give your side an advantage or impose a disadvantage on the other side.

Crowd Control to me means disabling or "managing" large amounts of weak critters so the heavy hitters can take them out without being swarmed, or the heavy hitters can take out the "leaders" without being swarmed.

Frankly, any caster scenario where someone other than the caster is the "heavy hitter" is nonstandard in my 3.5 experience.

@BESW As for that, really, explain that a bit better to me. I am having issues wrapping my head around it. Are you talking about a stuff like Bards, Auras. and AoE buffs and debuffs?

We're working with a guy that can take out a dozen enemies in one attack.

Without critting.

Melee

Dude practically spams Mithril Tornado.

Numbers are literally nothing to us. If they have anything less than 80hp, they're going down the moment the Hulk character swings. he has 10ft reach, and has a tendency to be swarmed.

@Dorian That can be part of it, but more to the point when I say "terrain" I actually mean terrain. Look at your allies' strengths and play to them while obstructing the enemy. If a character can ignore rough terrain and benefits from high ground, use earth-moving spells to create high ground and rough terrain. If he has tremorsense or blindsight, bring down fog and darkness. If he's got acid resistance, summon acid fog.

The trip god helped that. The minions charge, trip god trips them all in about the same spot, hulk charges in and mithril tornado, my archer hides and pegs the leader in the back with a few high damage shots, and the cleric heals/buffs.

noone has anything like that in the group.

I'm not kidding about that.

Darkvision is about as fancy as we have.

Summon walls to keep the stragglers from running; summon flying creatures to grapple flying enemies and bring them to ground.

Ignoring rough terrain is pretty much my bag.

@BESW (and possibly, have a spell that gives acid resistance for at least as long as the acid fog will last? :D)

running? nothing can run from us.

I'm not kidding lol. Anything that tries to run gets triplocked.

...what level are you?

It sounds like your GM is either unwilling or unable to optimise at the same level as his players.

We had a singular flying enemy face us. And he was taken out via the trip god sundering his spell component pouch, and a silenced arrow, and LOTS of hits.

we're lv9 approx

DM is just now starting to get wise and throw high level casters at us.

Because really, that's the ONLY thing that stands a chance.

Ghosts. Blink dogs. Ethereal marauders.

He threw a 15th caster lv minotaur with so many spells it wasn't even funny.

Ghosts don't work, ethereal doesn't work. I still hit them all.

And hide from them all for that matter.