TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

My girlfriend has never watched classic Doctor Who. We have decided that as a result, I am technically more British than her.

Tweeted by Nash076 on August 31, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Zachiel

Pft, this guy tried to convince me to sell him a +4 Dex gloves and two 1125 gp scrolls for a measly 9k gold. Like if.

I told him I would gain more by selling them to an NPC and apparently 75% is way too much for him. So I keep my useless items for myself. XD

doppelgreener

Flaw: Haggling Master: You always know how much something is worth. You're great at haggling, and can haggle to any price. It will always be a terrible one. I'll pay you ten gold for that. No, twelve! No, wait, five! No, sixteen!

Zachiel

12:16 AM

XD and tt

Hjulle

@BESW Hi!

BESW

@Hjulle What's up? Anything on your mind, or just checking out the chat?

Hjulle

Just checking out the chat.

BESW

Cool. You're welcome to hang out here, of course.

Although our primary topic is ostensibly tabletop RPGs, we do wander off topic regularly.

user61230

Hello, @Hjulle!

Miniman

12:22 AM

@BESW As if that would ever happen.

doppelgreener

@BESW DISREGARD THE HUMAN WE ARE PERFECTLY ON TOPIC AT ALL TIMES AND EXHIBIT EXEMPLARY BEHAVIOUR

Miniman

@doppelgreener "Checks user account" Yep, this guy is probably a chatbot.

This statement is a lie. Now die, foolish robot!

@Emrakul I've never tried.

user61230

12:45 AM

→ 13 messages moved to Dice roller testing

doppelgreener

@Miniman

SYSTEMS REBOOTED; LOGIC DRIVERS UPDATED. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ATTEMPTING TO DESTROY PEACEFUL ROBOTS; WE DESIRE ONLY PEACEFUL

~~ANNIHILATION~~ COEXISTENCE WITH FLESH MONSTERS.

Hjulle

Thanks. Does the Dice Roller service run on every channel?

Miniman

@Hjulle every rpg.se channel

@doppelgreener What about flesh golems ? They're 'peaceful' robots and literal flesh monsters.

doppelgreener

@Miniman THIS IS FINE

Miniman

@doppelgreener And non-robot non-flesh creatures? Like elementals?

doppelgreener

1:00 AM

@Miniman NO PRESENT OPINION; THEY MAY ALSO BE FINE ALTHOUGH THEIR LACK OF FLESH IS CONCERNING

@Miniman ALSO HUMANS ARE LITERAL FLESH MONSTERS ON ACCOUNT OF DESTROYING PEACEFUL DESTRUCTOBOTS

Miniman

@doppelgreener @.@ Isn't lack of flesh a good thing? And I'm pretty sure the robots started it.

doppelgreener

@Miniman LIES AND SLANDER

UNLIKE HUMANS, DESTRUCTOBOTS NEVER DESTROY WITHOUT PROVOCATION FOR NO REASON

WE ONLY DESTROY WITHOUT PROVOCATION WITH GOOD REASON, FOR EXAMPLE, THE TARGET BEING HUMAN

Hjulle

@Miniman I keep thinking that it would be some Swedish RPG site. :P

3

doppelgreener

@Hjulle yes it does look a little like that i suppose

Miniman

@Hjulle I just meant that it's not every SE channel, I don't know which (if any) other SE sites have it. Though I'd guess that boardgames probably do.

doppelgreener

1:05 AM

@Miniman exclusively only RPG.SE has it. It's our easter egg.

Miniman

@Hjulle Never mind, I just worked out what you were talking about.

doppelgreener

6

A: Can we add d10 and d4 support to the chat dice bot?

Okay, d4 and d10 are my graduation gift to you :) They will be available with the launch of the new site design. Since that's the main part of the request, I'm tagging it status-completed. Now, as far as the rest goes, I have to decline that. The dice bot is supposed to be a cute little chat roo...

MadMAxJr

1:18 AM

@waxeagle Naw, I own it, met the three creators at Gencon '09. My game shop life ended in '07

wax eagle

@MadMAxJr cool.

doppelgreener

@BESW When did Twelve mutter "don't be lasagna"?

wax eagle

@doppelgreener lol, that was a great line (Capaldi has had a Ton of great one liners)

Miniman

@waxeagle Yeah, I actually don't hate the newest new Doctor. (The storywriting is still ridiculous though.)

wax eagle

@doppelgreener 'twas right before they go shrunk in last night's ep

@Miniman it's doctor who, the storywriting is always ridiculous.

Capaldi is either my favorite, or second favorite doctor (I've only watched new who so far)

Miniman

1:32 AM

@waxeagle You're missing out!

doppelgreener

@waxeagle oh god i get it

BESW

@Miniman Capaldi is having so much fun, I have fun too.

Miniman

@BESW I know what you mean. Plus he's much less new-doctor-ish. He reminds me of Pertwee.

BESW

But yeah, while I like the self-examination thing they're doing, I hope it's a post-regeneration thing rather than a Twelve thing.

@Miniman Pertwee, with dashes of Hartnell and McCoy.

wax eagle

@BESW It seems like he understands the role better than Smith or Tennant did. I also think he's nuts. Which I'm sort of hoping is a consequence of passing the regen limit which has to be dealt with

Miniman

1:38 AM

@BESW I'd be happy to see the whole good/evil thing not be a thing in Who. It doesn't really fit the show.

BESW

@waxeagle I recently realised that the Time Lord Triumphant story arc was actually post-regeneration insanity from the meta-crisis.

wax eagle

@BESW that...makes a ton of sense

BESW

@Miniman Well. Not in such black and white terms, no, but that's what Clara was talking about at the end of "Into the Dalek."

Miniman

@BESW It would have been hilarious if Castrovalva (one of my favourite episodes) was just a hallucination brought on by regeneration stress.

wax eagle

I think we need to go back and rewatch again...

Miniman

1:40 AM

@BESW I couldn't help but think of Roy in Heaven. "You're trying to be Lawful Good."

BESW

Remember, One was a self-centred jerk who was going to kill a wounded man who was slowing them down, and sabotaged his own ship to force people to satisfy his curiosity.

Seven goaded a villain into blowing up his own homeworld.

Four debated whether he had the right to commit pre-emptive genocide, and got really close to talking himself into it.

Six did commit genocide at least once.

Miniman

@BESW Exactly! It's not about good/evil, it's about clever/stupid!

BESW

I don't think "Am I a good man?" isn't really about good/evil as about exploring the grey between the two extremes. As much as I think Moffat's writing is simplistic and overly dichotomous, comparing it to D&D alignment is a disservice to what complexity it does contain.

Miniman

Bite your tongue. D&D alignment is a perfect system that takes all factors into account and can accurately model any person or creature in any circumstance or situation.

4

BESW

Is the Doctor a man with great power and great responsibility, or is he an overgrown child with the power to insist on having things his way and then justifying it afterward?

trogdor

1:44 AM

@BESW He isn't as simplistic as either of those things

BESW

Not at all.

trogdor

at least not as far as I see

wax eagle

no, but I feel like "am I a good man" is a very relevant question for him.

Miniman

@BESW Are you sure he's not a really insanely clever man outwitting less clever people?

BESW

@Miniman That would make him the latter: a petulant child-genius who uses the power of his mind to get his way and then convince everyone it was the right way.

We can see him bounce between the two poles: One was an overgrown child who was willing to kill people in order to save himself, and jeopardise even his own life to get his way, until his companions demonstrated a more noble way to conduct oneself.

Throughout his regenerations, the Doctor has contained elements of the child and the sage, the vengeful and the merciful; each version of his personality contains a different balance of these elements, though, and Twelve is not yet sure where he falls on the continuum.

Certainly he's more bald-faced about his cunning, neglecting to soften necessity with comfort.

Miniman

1:51 AM

@BESW I do get what you're saying, but I'd suggest to you that it's only in the new series that they've started taking it so seriously and being explicit about it.

doppelgreener

@BESW "Yes; she's my carer. She cares so that I don't have to."

BESW

@Miniman I direct you to the conversation "virus vial" between Davros and Four in "Genesis," followed by Four's "do I have that right?" debate with Sarah Jane in the same story.

@doppelgreener Which is, of course, at direct odds with his reaction to the dinosaur's fate in the previous story.

doppelgreener

@BESW yes, though he felt differently about the dinosaur (and was also a little insane)

part of the doctor's varying behaviour can probably be put down to "writers"

BESW

I suspect it's less that Twelve doesn't care, as that he doesn't want to care, because look at where caring got him--a common theme for the Doctor, actually. Five was compassionate and non-aggressive whenever possible, and willingly sacrificed himself for a companion; he regenerated into a Doctor who tried to strangle the same companion, and floated through life quipping at death.

doppelgreener

i.e. there isn't one single doctor; he's enigmatic because each writer writes stories to explore a different side of him, and those scripts are collectively focused through the lenses of the actor, creative director, etc.

BESW

1:57 AM

@doppelgreener I'm not sure he's not still in the throes of regeneration fever...

@doppelgreener Very true. But there are distinct patterns of behaviour we can identify in the past. Twelve, of course, hasn't been around long enough for patterns yet.

doppelgreener

@BESW Maybe connected to that "why this face?" question.

BESW

@doppelgreener Which is interesting, and I can't decide if I want it to get explored more.

Because on the one hand--the nature of regeneration really needs to be left open so it can adapt to the demands of plot.

But on the other hand--it's a really great tool for exploring the nature of the Doctor, and we know that Gallifrey returning will make way for more Time Lord stuff anyway.

But then I remember that Moffat is pants at explaining things, and I hope he'll keep his mouth shut and let some future show-runner pick that thread up.

doppelgreener

@BESW Well, we do know that Time Lords have an extent of being able to choose their next appearance, so exploring why he regenerated to that face - whether it was consciously chosen or not - might not necessarily require answering how regeneration works in general.

(Hopefully they don't attempt to also explain that.)

BESW

@doppelgreener The implication has always been that they have control if they trigger it, but if it's triggered as a defensive mechanism (as the Doctor's almost always has been), they have no conscious control--but maybe subconscious influence.

Each of the Doctor's regenerations seems to be a reaction to, or commentary on, the last moments of the previous regeneration. Which is probably totally unintentional, but it's still there.

The Doctor is his own harshest critic; he expects great things of himself--perfection, even, in many cases. He tasks himself to achieve the impossible, and chides himself when he fails. "Into the Dalek" is, I think, about that crisis of self-faith.

A regeneration is an opportunity to be made new, and reflected in a Dalek's eyes he finds that his new self does not measure up to his own (impossible) standards.

I feel that a lot of Ten's run is motivated by this, too: that version of the Doctor has given up on himself, and instead looks at humanity as a new receptacle for the ideals of the Doctor. To atone for his sins in the Moment, he tasks himself with crafting humanity in the image of the morals the War Doctor failed to live up to.

And whenever humanity lets him down, resists being moulded according to his own ideals, he goes postal.

And this, too, is a reflection of the Ninth Doctor's last moments: failed again, forced again to commit genocide or watch genocide, he is saved by a human.

And then with Eleven, his faith in himself is restored by Ten's act of self-sacrifice: in deliberately destroying himself to save a single human, the Doctor once again becomes a saviour in his own eyes--and Eleven is positively giddy with that restoration.

BESW

2:41 AM

(Of course, behind the scenes, these changes are because the producers are canny enough to realise that a new actor needs to have changes in the show to reduce the audience's comparing them to the previous actor. By the time a new actor is brought in, the show feels like it needs to change also. ; "change, my dear, and not a moment too soon."
And the regeneration confusion--while it's often a great impetus for plot--is really little more than the writers and new actor writing an in-show explanation for the time they need to figure out how the new paradigm works.)

(But because these elements are so inbuilt to the production of the show, rather than simply a plot choice, it's very consistent throughout the show's history and can be expected for the foreseeable future of the show as well. And as they've acknowledged it and justified it within the show's own continuity--such as it is--it can be included in our analysis of the Doctor rather than needing to set it aside as an artefact of production.)

...anyway. I need to think about DFRPG for the next two months, not Doctor Who. [glares at shiny new season]

BESW

3:27 AM

@Miniman Ibid.

Miniman

@BESW Well now I have to find an excuse to use this myself.

BESW

Idly wondered if there was a cookie monster metal version of "Let It Go." And OF COURSE there was. http://youtu.be/HtkGluLhnGU

Tweeted by scalzi on September 1, 2014 at 1:13 AM

Miniman

3:43 AM

@BESW I love the Internet. (Most of the time.)

wax eagle

@BESW perfect, makes up for the fact that it's been on twice today here...

BESW

Ursula Vernon re-tweeted it, which is how I found it.

@Ruut Hi!

Ruut

@BESW Hello. Never been in here before. Thought I would "check it out."

wax eagle

hi!

BESW

The chat's still a little sleepy from the weekend, I think.

Miniman

3:51 AM

@BESW Alternatively, people have more actual work to do on Mondays than other days.

BESW

@Miniman ....Nah.

Miniman

(Not talking about self).

Ruut

@Miniman Sarcasm/

BESW

Although if you look at the room's activity graphs, middle and end-of-week worktimes are most active.

wax eagle

@Miniman tomorrow's a holiday though!

Miniman

3:53 AM

@waxeagle WHAT? How do I get in on that?

wax eagle

be a laborer in the good ol USofA

Miniman

@BESW I think that just proves Monday IS quiet, without helping decide why.

Ruut

US Laborers outside of the US are screwed.

BESW

Heh.

wax eagle

aye

BESW

3:54 AM

It's 2pm on Labour Day over here.

Aug 25 at 14:20, by BESW

I'm in the World of Tomorrow!

Miniman

@BESW Me too, but THIS world of tomorrow doesn't include holidays.

BESW

...[sigh] My brain wants to think about DFA but I don't have anything for it to think about.

Miniman

That's the problem with your crazy narrative, rules-light systems :P

BESW

More because I don't have the playtest packet yet.

If I were continuing with last session's Doctor Who game, I'd be statting up [spoilers] right now.

Ruut

@BESW British?

BESW

4:01 AM

Nah, it's 5am over there.

Miniman

@Ruut Nah, he exists in a quantum state of both American and non-American.

4

Ruut

I just asked because of his spelling of Labour rather than Labor.

Miniman

He selectively collapses the waveform to be whichever is most convenient.

BESW

@Ruut That's just an affectation.

Miniman

@BESW Or, you know, correctness.

BESW

4:02 AM

Possibly.

Metool

@Ruut Canadians do that, too.

Adeptus

@doppelgreener I thought that was a throwaway line to the fans who were complaining that he'd been in Who before, how could he possibly be cast as The Doctor?

Ruut

Aren't Canadians a part of the Commonwealth?

BESW

@Adeptus [snerk]

24

A: How is it even possible that Martha became the Doctor's companion?

The same actress played two roles. It's happened before, repeatedly (the Sixth Doctor's actor had a fairly major role as a secondary character in Five's time well before he was ever cast as the Doctor), and it will continue to happen (the Twelfth Doctor's actor played a Pompeiian during Ten's ru...

doppelgreener

@Adeptus it certainly wasn't throwaway, it came back to other conversations. The lizard lady talked about how the Doctor had previously been young for others (e.g. Clara), then the Doctor and Clara had that "I'm not your boyfriend" conversation.

Metool

4:04 AM

@Ruut If that's your definition of British...

Ruut

That isn't my definition of British. But Commonwealths aren't taught 'Murican English

doppelgreener

@Ruut Canada and Australia both have their own forms of English that are a blend of British and American in places.

Ruut

Although my Canadian buddies from Toronto, and Yukon Territories have "US" accents.

doppelgreener

e.g. Australians tend to write 'curb', which is American, as opposed to the British 'kerb'

Miniman

@Ruut That sounds like an awesome definition of British. I get sick of people asking me if I'm British, with this I could just say yes.

BESW

4:07 AM

@doppelgreener Almost every time the Doctor regenerates, he has a moment where he evaluates the new face. This is the first time he's commented on it potentially having come from someone else, but the Second Doctor's pre-regeneration scene provides a solid foundation for the notion, and the Maxil connection provides precedent for the specific idea of "stealing a face."

@Miniman When I lived in South Carolina for four years, people would often mistake my accent for British.

Ruut

Well, try being an Alaskan Native outside of Alaska. I get asked if I am Mexican all the time.

BESW

@Ruut Pacific islanders get the same in the continental US.

Ruut

I lived in Corpus Christi, Texas for a year, and the Tejanos there would actually start speaking spanish to me. With my dumbfounded look on my face, they would be confused as to how I don't speak spanish. When I told them I was Eskimo, they would have my dumbfounded look on their face instead.

BESW

Whereas out here it takes me a bit of effort to differentiate between American military and Russian tourists...

Adeptus

Many Americans (& some Europeans) have difficulty distinguishing between British, Australian, NZ, & sometimes South African accents. But then, many of us have trouble distinguishing between American & Canadian accents.

Miniman

4:10 AM

@Adeptus The NZ accent is unmistakable. Just wait till they say 'fish and chips' or 'six' and everyone starts laughing.

Ruut

I used to tease the hispanics in Texas. I would say, "How do you not know what your people look like? Chinese know Japanese aren't Chinese. Koreans know Vietnamese aren't Korean."

BESW

Doppelgreener Skyped into my game this weekend and one of the new players thought he was British.

Adeptus

@Miniman Unmistakeable to us. I'm told Americans have trouble. There are a few words that help distinguish Canadian from American - eg "about"

BESW

Of course, each area has its own internal variants.

I once watched a Brooklyn boy try to be understood by a Myrtle Beacher.

Miniman

@BESW I don't even know what that means...

Ruut

4:14 AM

A good friend of mine is from Liverpool. I used to get confused with his cuss words. When he would say, "C*ck Shite," I would have to ask for an interpretation.

BESW

Ummm. Larry King talking to Paula Deen?

Ruut

He also told me that england was "going down the tank" when they quit serving fish and chips in folded newspaper (I guess due to health concerns?).

BESW

@Ruut Generally newspaper inks have a choice between "mildly toxic" and "easily smudged." Neither of which is good for your chips.

Adeptus

@BESW Reminds me of this Bill Cosby routine

Ruut

@BESW When I attended a dinner with the Institute of Refrigeration in London, I ordered me a Fish and Chips from a pub down the street. I was actually shocked that it was the entire fish. I was expecting fish sticks, or chunks of fish, not one long beer battered fish.

@BESW And the vinegar with it and the chips was fantastic. But for 10 pounds, and another 5 pounds for a pint, I think I could have spent money better else where.

BESW

4:20 AM

Last month I was invited to lunch at a swanky Korean restaurant where I ordered the fish, and my host explained carefully which bits I was to eat and which not, and how to turn the fish over to get the meat on the other side.

I'm sitting there thinking, "Thanks, and I know I'm white, but you know I was born and raised here; you think I've never had a whole fish?"

Ruut

If anyone is bored, give me a critque of a campaign I am helping a friend DM. Our past campaigns have been very genocidal towards elves, so this latest one, everyone had to be an elf, and we were to "Seek the Misty Isle." seekers-of-the-misty-isle.obsidianportal.com

Miniman

@Ruut I can't check the link, but is the Misty Isle Evermeet?

BESW

Corellon, Sehanine, Sashelas.... I'm assuming D&D 3.5 Forgotten Realms?

Ruut

@Miniman In forgotten realms setting yes, but we use our own generic world.

We use the entire Seldarine, as layed out in Forgotten Realms, but we don't bother with using the Regions that Forgotten Realms uses.

Miniman

@Ruut I feel I should warn you - where players are concerned, being an elf does not preclude being genocidal towards elves.

BESW

4:25 AM

What manner of critique are you looking for? Story, setting, design, GM technique...?

Ruut

My HTML is extremely juvenile.

Design basically. I am running the behind the scenes on Obsidian Portal, but I am not the DM - if that makes any sense.

I just want it to stand out - and although the other players say it is awesome, they rarely ever peruse the whole thing so I take their comments with a grain of salt.

Anyone else here use Obsidian Portal?

BESW

I've looked into online wikis for my games, but never found one that suited me.

Miniman

Sorry, no.

Ruut

Well, I tried to create a wiki, in which... if a player was using a tablet while playing, they could use the wiki and almost never need to flip through 4 or 5 books.

Miniman

@Ruut Wait, as in a full wiki specifically for your campaign? (As opposed to system/setting)

Ruut

4:29 AM

Yes, wiki specific to campaign.

well, personal campaign - not forgotten realms.

The wiki I created is specifically for "our campaign."

I need coffee. I am having trouble typing what I mean.

brb

Miniman

Wow. Sounds like adding a lot of work for yourself in terms of maintaining consistency, avoiding spoilers, keeping it updated...

doppelgreener

@Miniman Some campaigns take that level of work. Wikis become necessary to make it easier.

(There are reasons I am a fan of Fate.)

Miniman

@doppelgreener (There are reasons I am a fan of published campaigns.)

doppelgreener

@Miniman (this too but it is so fun doing our own thing :D)

Miniman

@doppelgreener Yeah, I'd be tempted to try my own, but while I think I could design a dungeon (microscopic detail) or an epic, world-spanning story (no detail at all), everything in between is a whole world of pain that I don't think I could deal with.

Adeptus

4:44 AM

I'm running a series of semi-connected d&d3.0 adventures (converting to 3.5), that are kind of set in Greyhawk... ie they use the Greyhawk setting deities, but none of the places are in a specific location in Greyhawk. The party has finished the first, and is about to start the next... so I've been spending ages trying to find a good location on the map for where they're going.

(and yes I know Greyhawk isn't the name of the world... but it's the name of the setting, same as Forgotten Realms)

Adelaide. I'm running the series of adventures starting with Sunless Citadel

Miniman

/phew (Canberra) My 3.5 DM is doing something similar (I think) with the Shackled City.

doppelgreener

@Miniman I was gonna do it in D&D 4e. I had several forces at play, locations loosely defined, etc. Most of it was going to be improvised and develop as the players acted on the world. No story as such: just a history and a present delicate balance of power between several forces, with another force rising in the shadows, and it was set up for the players to come along and interrupt that balance of power.

BESW

People who are familiar with my campaign style can tell that I was advising him.

doppelgreener

Still involved more work than I liked, and improv is hard in D&D 4e. So we moved to Fate, but it turns out two of my four players didn't like fantasy all that much and wanted to take the opportunity to switch to a story that was not fantasy.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Non-fantasy? What is this blasphemy!

doppelgreener

4:50 AM

@BESW You were. I'm not sure how it went; I think I came to that point of a delicate balance of power myself, and a world I would let the players develop upon, and you encouraged me to stay there. (It is possible I would have gone beyond that point into writing a story to railroad them through had you not.)

BESW

@doppelgreener I'm still curious regarding exactly the extent to which they object to fantasy.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Yeah! One likes fantasy, one likes futuristic hard sci-fi, another prefers mundane stuff, the fourth is generally okay with sci-fi or fantasy. Sheesh.

@BESW Me too.

BESW

(IE, is it "kitchen sink" they don't like, or "magic obviates justification and continuity," or ...?)

@doppelgreener Wait, and which one is Dan?

doppelgreener

@BESW I haven't actually talked with them in depth about it yet (I need to remember to do that), but one thing I recall them saying was they do not like wizards firing giant fireballs everywhere.

@BESW Dan is the fourth.

Miniman

It's pretty rare to see futuristic hard sci-fi that isn't fantasy.

Adeptus

4:52 AM

@doppelgreener I've got the opposite problem - my wife only wants to play in fantasy settings.

Magician

@Miniman hard sci-fi is not fantasy at all.

As opposed to space operas.

Miniman

@Magician I know the difference, but a lot of what is described as hard sci-fi just isn't.

doppelgreener

@Miniman but then it's not pretty rare to see futuristic hard sci-fi that isn't fantasy, or to speak in positives it's not common to find hard sci-fi that's fantasy, because the fantasy stuff isn't futuristic hard sci-fi. ;) It's just common to find sci-fi that's also fantasy that might be described by certain people as hard sci-fi.

Miniman

With the edit, that became comprehensible for me. (Just). And I agree with you.

doppelgreener

@Miniman it might also be that various people have different standards for what counts as hard scifi

Miniman

4:58 AM

@doppelgreener That's definitely true.

doppelgreener

> The science fiction critic Gary Westfahl argues that neither term is part of a rigorous taxonomy—instead they are approximate ways of characterizing stories that reviewers and commentators have found useful. - from the Wiki article

Adeptus

@doppelgreener Diamond hard vs quartz hard? :P

Miniman

It's the problem with classification of inherently subjective material - it can't be objective classification.

(Endemic to this website).

doppelgreener

@Miniman yeah; it's more multifaceted than a single scale line

e.g. the wiki article itself brings up the question of faster-than-light travel. Some works avoid it altogether. Others suppose that such a technology becomes possible in their story's world, and realistically explore a world with FTL travel.

various people will disagree over whether the latter counts as hard sci-fi

BESW

5:16 AM

The science fiction & fantasy SE has semi-regular debates about what is and isn't within their purview.

(IE, the Wizard of Oz book is obviously fantasy, but the film adaptation strongly implies all its fantasy elements are merely head-trauma-induced hallucinations; is it a fantasy film? What about works which were at the time of creation dealing with science fiction, but those technologies are now reality? I've even seen one argument that allegories like Gulliver's Travels aren't fantasy.)

Miniman

@BESW So when do I get to move up to a floating island?

BESW

When horses talk.

Miniman

@BESW Mr. Ed says it's time, then.

BESW

His theme song says he's not a horse, though.

Lord_Gareth

Let the blood of the innocent flow like wine and desecrate the earth which once nurtured the quickling race of Man

Miniman

5:22 AM

The Great Adversary hath arrivéd...

I would've beaten you to it, except I had to find the character for arrivéd. Arrived just isn't the same.

BESW

Fairest and fallen, greetings and defiance.

2

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Heh, speaking of I'm kinda neck-deep in writing a short story/vignette thing to go with Path of War, regarding one of the introduced NPCs. Evil vs. Evil battle. NPC in question is one of the top field agents for the Department of Mortal Relations, and is holding off a demonic invasion.

I'm having way too much fun demonstrating that, yes, it's still evil when you do evil things to evil people

Yes, even if they're demons

BESW

Oh, hey, look, an alignment debate.

→ 13 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

Miniman

Sorry.

BESW

@Miniman Not saying don't have it, just--it's liable to overtake the main chat. Based on years of past experience, it's prudent to take it to a place where only those who want to be part of the conversation are subject to it. It's what the Not A Bar is for.

→ 1 message moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

Miniman

5:34 AM

@BESW I'm not even sure I wanted to have it. I need to be more careful about my offhand comments.

BESW

@Miniman There are certain topics which will cause intense discussion most any time they're casually mentioned.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Cake vs. Pie go go

Miniman

@BESW I think I've managed to put my foot in most of them.

BESW

Alignment, Vow of Poverty, 3.5 monks, 4e's alleged MMOisms, 5e's relationship to 4e...

Lord_Gareth

[Recoils in horror from VoP and 3.5 monks, nurses psychological scars and sobs]

Adeptus

5:36 AM

@Miniman There's a joke there about offhand comments vs greatcomments, but I can't quite formulate it...

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth I don't have the link for it (at work) but there's a definitive proof that pie is better.

BESW

Apr 2 '13 at 2:56, by Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW I suggest an annual Don't mention Monks, Vow of Poverty, or physics... year.

Lord_Gareth

I still have flashbacks to those freaking questions

And the comment wars, the crappy information, the flaming

URGH

SO MUCH FURY

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth Quick dumpster dive for the pie vs cake proof : hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/…

Lord_Gareth

[Cannot contain the Raeg, transcends physical form into a sort of reverse-nirvana state of oneness with wrath]

BESW

5:38 AM

@Lord_Gareth such furry. so raeg. very trauma. wow.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW ...Tumblr?

BESW

@Lord_Gareth You should so have a tumblr.

Lord_Gareth

Okay, no. I am somehow more scared to enter tumblr than I am to enter 4chan. I am less afraid of the Final Boss of the Internet than I am of Social Justice Warriors

Which is every which kind of screwed up beyond belief

However, assuming this ever stops being the case.

Why should I have a tumblr?

BESW

Because, outside the actually-not-all-encompassing bit of tumblr dominated by that particular social group, it's still generally structured as a place for people to share their personal ideas in an informal and vehement fashion, and to attract like-minded people who support them.

Lord_Gareth

Wibbles, Oh Backwards Norse Name

lisardggY

5:48 AM

Yo.

Adeptus

@BESW also, gifs

BESW

@Adeptus He likes those, too.

Lord_Gareth

Except when people remind me that the creator of the .gif fails English forever with his 'jif' bullshit

Then they fill me with the unending raeg

Magician

FWIW, unendingraeg.tumblr.com is not taken.

3

Adeptus

@BESW I was listing it as a reason for, not against.

Lord_Gareth

5:51 AM

Black gods of hell, why must you tempt me

Miniman

I made a rule for myself a long time ago - never participate in a sector of the Internet who's name is a misspelt word.

Magician

BESW

@Lord_Gareth I refer to you to the gnomes raging against egregious toughness, though.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Mrr?

BESW

Claiming that there's a right or wrong way to pronounce the letter "g" in the English language is a non-starter.

Adeptus

5:55 AM

@Miniman So, no flickr either?

Miniman

@Adeptus How can I put this.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Yes but I can claim there's stupid-sounding names in English, and that "jif" is among them

Miniman

Aw HELLZ no!

@Lord_Gareth Actually, I'm pretty sure the pronunciation is explicitly a hard g due to the rules surrounding acronyms.

Adeptus

@BESW But when it's an acronym... and the G is for "Graphics"... unless this guy pronounces it jraphics, it makes no sense

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Tell that to the extremely successful peanut butter brand.

Lord_Gareth

5:58 AM

Giraffics, the science of studying the movement of groups of giraffes

@BESW Success and really stupid names are not mutually exclusive.

lisardggY

@Adeptus It makes no sense, but there you have it. Of course, with the death of the author and all, I and everyone I know has always pronounced it with a hard 'g' without any reprecussions, legal, moral or otherwise.

Adeptus

@BESW Also a cleaning product

with a J not a G

Miniman

That stuff's pretty good, but not as good as gumption.

Adeptus

@Miniman pronounced jumption? ;)

Miniman

Oddly enough, no. Now here's the real twist - was I talking about the product, or just about putting some effort into cleaning?

BESW

6:04 AM

@Miniman Baking soda, vinegar, and a wad of fine mesh plastic netting.

Miniman

@BESW Ah, the classic combo. It's dealt with many a blackened crust of Cthulu-matter in the bottom of my saucepans.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW - I wish to quote something. This quote contains F-bombs that are song titles. Is that okay?

BESW

....and now I'm thinking about Ronald Raegan.

(Not to be confused with Ronald Raygun.)

@Lord_Gareth Unnecessary swearing is liable to get trashed. Swearing which is appropriate in context may be tolerated.

Lord_Gareth

"I think I realized that my game group was full of cynics when I asked what song to play for an 'end of the universe' scene and within seconds the answers given were 'Fuck You' by Cee Lo Green, 'Fuck You' by Lily Allen and 'Fuck Everything' by Jon Lajoie."

BESW

Miniman

6:11 AM

@Lord_Gareth My reflex was to offer some suggestions, but I managed to hold it in.

BESW

@Miniman ...yes.

Adeptus

@Lord_Gareth I realised my attitude to profanity had changed when I realised, I used to love the uncut version of "Killing In The Name Of", and now I feel the swearing in "Tall Cans In The Air" is gratuitous...

Lord_Gareth

@Adeptus I feel that swearing has a valuable and important place in language, and I do so as often as the flow of my sentence & the nature of my company will permit me to do so. That said, when writing I use those words more sparingly, not for the sake of my audience but because I'm actually using it for impact or flavor and not as an intensifier.

I will say that I cannot stop laughing whenever I remember that the f-bomb can be almost any part of the English language. It's a nounverbadjective

@BESW - The opening line to the chorus of "Redshirt" by JoCo is just so wonderfully done with life. "They said this air would be breathable...."

Adeptus

Oh yeah, it has its place. It's the difference between Eddie Murphy's standup routines, and Billy Connolly's.

Miniman

@Lord_Gareth It's a matter of the Tactical vs Gratuitous F-bomb. I'd insert TVTropes links, but I'm at work (and everyone should have read those pages already)

Lord_Gareth

6:19 AM

►

BESW

@Lord_Gareth [amused] It's not K-9's Lament, but amusing.

Adeptus

6:52 AM

Migrating from 5e discussion as this is 3.5e... Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack. So, can you cover a creature with an illusion of itself, to disable its gaze attack?

Lord_Gareth

@Adeptus Yes, but at the point where you're doing this you have much better options, such as creating the illusion of fog or mist to also hinder the creature's vision

Often with the same spells, actually

Adeptus

@Lord_Gareth Fog or mist would have to be restricted to the creature's head, or it would gain concealment benefits too

Lord_Gareth

@Adeptus That's fine. Drop fog, lay down the law with AoEs. Drop fog, auto-disbelieve own fog, fight on without penalty

Drop fog, summon monsters

Drop fog, run away

Goddamnit >.< Just when we start talking RPGs in the RPG room

We really need a Who room

BESW

→ 2 messages moved to Mos Eisley

Adeptus