TRPG General Chat

Metool

12:02 AM

Hello.

BESW

[wave]

Metool

@Lord_Gareth Which comment?

wax eagle

12:20 AM

@JoshuaAslanSmith and naturally, it showed up in my mail today

Phil

dontcha just love the hilarious new answer to the 4 sided dice question? :o/

AgentPaper

12:33 AM

new 4 sided dice?

wax eagle

@AgentPaper new answer, old question

Miniman

@JoshuaAslanSmith Incidentally, (probably too late to weigh in here), the Paladin has a lot going for it that the Cleric doesn't.

AgentPaper

aw, thought someone'd come up with an alternative to the caltrop

wax eagle

@AgentPaper short of a multi-numbered d8/12/20 and a crystal style, I'm not sure there are too many more ways to do it :(

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Miniman its got interesting features but their utilization is very dependent on campaign/gm

I feel like its very similar to ranger where they can be incredible story engines that are just as powerful as everyone else, but only if the GM meets you half way

Miniman

12:37 AM

@JoshuaAslanSmith I actually meant that their bonus action spells which seriously enhance their attacks are a great combo

AgentPaper

What edition are you guys talking about?

wax eagle

@AgentPaper 5th

Miniman

It's like what the ranger tried to be, except the ranger list doesn't really support it

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Miniman ranger list supports it if you are a bow ranger

Miniman

@JoshuaAslanSmith Eh, sort of. But they've only got a few, and they're much less powerful

Some of the auras are pretty amazing, though the dependency on your party clustering is a bit less than ideal

AgentPaper

12:39 AM

The paladin seems a lot more distinct from a war cleric than previous editions (well, 3.5 anyways)

From both an RP and mechanical perspective

wax eagle

@AgentPaper there's a pretty significant mechanical gap between the two in 4e

Miniman

I have to admit that the Oath of Vengeance really doesn't have a lot going for it

wax eagle

which I know is Josh's "native" system (and mine)

AgentPaper

Yeah, I guess they're more similar compared to 4e, especially at early levels, but then that's true for every class.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Miniman I love all that stuff but a lot of the pally on hit spells are still save spells, so you need to bump cha over str

@Miniman they are pretty ridiculously strong when combined with Volley

you just hit all those enemies for weapon damage, now they all save against a spell attack as well

Miniman

12:42 AM

@JoshuaAslanSmith The saves only apply to the additional effects though. The damage is guaranteed

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Miniman depends on the spell

Miniman

@JoshuaAslanSmith Find me a smite that doesn't

Seriously, they all do the damage

Actually, that's another thing the Paladin has over the Ranger, because the Ranger's ones mostly require a failed save to do anything

AgentPaper

It's not like you can't use the save spells without pumping your Charisma to max. Even if you only have a 14 in charisma, your DC will still be more than high enough for monsters to fail pretty often. It's only a difference of 3 DC compared to a charisma of 20, after all.

Miniman

12:56 AM

Also, while the Cleric is 100% a better caster, even with the War domain it doesn't hold up in terms of attacks.

Extra attack only Wis mod times per day, no fighting style

Tritium21

Has anyone actually ever played FATAL (and I dont mean the people in this room, i mean, anyone of the 7+ billion people alive today)?

BESW

I've collected all the Modes and Skills (Weird and otherwise) from ARRPG in one place and calculated their skill point values. Someone may find it useful.

If someone wouldn't mind double-checking my math on the Spirit mode? I got two different skill point values depending on whether I worked backwards from reinforcements or forward from applications.

BESW

1:21 AM

@Tritium21 Oh All-Seeing, All-Knowing Google, has anyone played FATAL?

Tritium21

@BESW I like how the first link is to a "Not Safe For Sanity" rpgnet post

Phil

@BESW no, and I feel dirty having read about it

doppelgreener

@Tritium21 maybe the creators

Tritium21

@doppelgreener Accidental-rape-rules aside, I don't think you can play that system, and have it come out that bad. Its like a homebrew post without ever having played it

The Oracle

1:39 AM

0

Q: Can we affirm that RPG.SE embraces a plurality of playstyles?

I've recently had the dubious pleasure to have been told both that the high visibility of RAW-centric optimising online is an illusion and nobody actually plays that way in a real game, and that old-school playstyles are obsolete and nobody actually plays that way except from irrational attacheme...

wax eagle

1:56 AM

@TheOracle I think we need to reserve the right to tell someone their style of play is hurting their game.

AgentPaper

That seems highly opinion-based and not really something that we should be doing here...

Shalvenay

I'm still scratching my head as to what I should do to some extent -- because to my game-recommendation question: the DramaSystem just doesn't sound like it'd work very well for someone who focuses on manipulating the physical world to actualize their wants and needs

vs. focusing on working with (or against) other people to do that

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle great answer with a very good analog lol

there are political/religious undertones to some of the stuff that happens here

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith I make RPG.SE comps on C.SE too :). Cuz systems and denominations are a nice analog sometimes.

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

wax eagle

2:05 AM

specially for question scopes

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh yesh

Shalvenay

@Joshua: YES.

AgentPaper

So, I mentioned that fate was a real force tied to the lore and storyline of my campaign (dnd5e) before. To that effect, I was thinking of using a houserule I heard of before, and was wondering if anyone had used something like it.

Essentially, the rule is: Whenever a roll would cause a player to die (ie: an enemy crits, player fails a save, etc), that roll is replaced with a natural 1 (or 20, as appropriate), and then that die result is "saved" to be used later on when it would cause harm to the players (but not death, obviously).

wax eagle

@AgentPaper so you're eliminating PC death in favor of karmic retribution?

AgentPaper

The intent here is to have a sort of karma system that protects the players from death, without removing the sense of danger in the game

Yeah, exactly.

Shalvenay

2:12 AM

I like the rule-as-implemented -- although 5e seems a fair bit less swingy to begin with than 0e or 2e at low levels was

AgentPaper

Yeah, it'd likely come into play the early levels, mostly.

Which can still be fairly lethal.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@AgentPaper so there was an optional rule for 4e published in dragon mag called less death more danger

AgentPaper

Oh? Care to provide a link?

Or just post it here if it's short.

Joshua Aslan Smith

basically when you got knocked uncouncoius you took minor wounds and if you faiiled enough death saves or took enough damage to "di9e" you took a major wound

do you have D&D insider

AgentPaper

I used to, not anymore.

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:15 AM

yeah you can see the article then one sec though ill break it down

@AgentPaper actually how about I email you your notes

*my notes

basically though the system is designed to remove death that isnt for story reasons

@AgentPaper check it out, going afk for dinner

Tritium21

email addresses in the permanently logged chat

wax eagle

@Tritium21 yeah, I was gonna offer deletion, @AgentPaper want me to scrub that for you?

AgentPaper

Sure, though it isn't the first time I posted it.

wax eagle

the googles find these rooms and that means the spam bots do too

@AgentPaper I haz mod powerz want me to delete the old ones too?

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:55 AM

@AgentPaper you get the email okay?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

... this seems to be an argument.

Go have it in 5e debate.

wax eagle

@BrianBallsun-Stanton meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/a/5154/1084 maybe?

D&D 5e Overflow

For when main chat wants to talk about other things too.

for easy reference ^

Bradd Szonye

Heh, I’m familiar. Don’t think there’s anything further to argue though.

wax eagle

yeah, y'all are kinda going in circles at this point

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

→ 104 messages moved to D&D 5e Debate Room

BESW

3:02 AM

I'd move the messages but I'm not sure yet how I feel about the handful of other-topic casualties involved.

wax eagle

@BESW too late now...lol

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BrianBallsun-Stanton thank you for clearing up the comment thread if that was you

BESW

Loverly.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

→ 6 messages moved to D&D 5e Debate Room

hrmph.

Bradd Szonye

Was there much interleaved on other topics?

BESW

3:03 AM

Seriously though people, I step out for lunch and what happens.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@JoshuaAslanSmith that's what flagging is for, such that the triune eye of sauron gazes with impartial and burning flame on comments which desecend, as they always do, into bickering and debate. I was asleep at the time.

@BraddSzonye no, I control-clicked those bits on e-mails.

Joshua Aslan Smith

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only edition war

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@waxeagle no. Someone else said something relevant. and it's really bugging me that my brain is returning 404

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw You on your return

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Do you remember anything about it? I'm not sure what you mean by "consider" in that answer's context.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

3:09 AM

@BESW I want to say that it was d7 saying something about providing an answer to the querent first, and then suggesting on top of it

and it... might... have been a comment?

BESW

OOoh. Isn't that in the Challenging Frame meta, too?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

it's... somewhere

BESW

I'll trawl through SSD's comments a bit.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

note, I apply a 40% certainty to that attachment

BESW

Then I'll only look through 40% of his comments.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

3:11 AM

it's... not... really... ... oh good, now my brain is returning 418. I think it wants coffee.

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

@BrianBallsun-Stanton DAMMIT JIM IM A DOCTOR NOT A BARRISTA

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Too much blood in your caffeine system!

Dorian

Hmm... Anyone know of a good 3.5 source for construct races? Looking for some interesting ones.

BESW

Interesting lore-wise or mechanically?

Dorian

Either I suppose.

Bradd Szonye

3:24 AM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton This got accidentally moved with the argument.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

right. thanks

Can someone help me source meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/a/5177/760

Restated :)

BESW

I need to name an astronomy-focused millennial-conspiracy nut.

Metool

@Dorian Besides warforged?

Looking for homebrew or 3PP?

I think one of the Dragon magazines had modrons as a player race...

Dorian

Yes, besides Warforged :P And no homebrew or 3pp, I doubt I'd be able to justify them.

Construct creatures* I suppose I should say.

BESW

What are you going to use them for?

'cause, like, wood elementals may feel right but they aren't technically constructs.

And if you run down the 3.5 version of Modrons, I think they're technically right but may not be appropriate.

Dorian

3:36 AM

Would need to be specifically constructs, due to the Incarnate Construct clauses :P Looking for some interesting ones to turn fleshy I guess. Have a couple ideas of a powerful caster or something experimenting with life. And I might want to play one as a character in some game at some point if it's allowed.

BESW

Ah.

Yanno, there's a template for statting up construct versions of almost any corporeal creature.

Dorian

Where? o.o

BESW

Complete Arcane, I think.

Effigy Creature, page 151.

Your guy could make constructs of known creatures, and then turn them flesh to see how they match up to the originals.

I'd have fun using that to mess with encounter expectations.

Dorian

Hmm would be interesting

BESW

Mind flayer shows up, but turns out to have no psionic powers because it's an enfleshed construct.

Dorian

3:46 AM

Just give it the Phrenic template too :P lol

Lord_Gareth

4:06 AM

@BESW You have discovered 3.5's one and only strength: if you can imagine it, we can build it.

It might be convoluted, difficult, and require advanced math

But by god

We can make it

BESW

I was never able to figure out how to make a Captain America build without re-fluffing or making some odd compromises like "my shield deals stabby damage."

Shalvenay

that's just goofball

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Define "Captain America" beyond "throws his shield and it comes back" for me real quick.

Shalvenay

shield-as-weapon should be possible -- it's unrealistic for it not to be useful as a weapon, even!

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay Well, shield-as-weapon is built in, but they sort of. Suck. Really badly.

Like, "big heavy steel shields deal the same damage as daggers but in a crappier damage type"

Shalvenay

4:09 AM

oof

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Super-athlete with focus on protecting & inspiring others, with secondary focus on debuffs.

He's empty-hand-and-board, using shield bash or equivalent and punching for melee, and throwing his shield for ranged (with multiple-target skip and returning).

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Human Warblade, emphasize White Raven, Iron Heart, and Diamond Mind. Use Martial Study and Martial Stance to get 2 Devoted Spirit maneuvers & Thicket of Blades. Throwing Returning shield will come back to you, or you can Bloodstorm Blade to simply use the shield at range. Iron Heart does the multi-target skip via Steel Wind & its line-throws, Bloodstorm Blade makes that work at range.

Unarmed Strike feat in ToB will make his punch worth using

BESW

That's very close to what I managed to puzzle together four years ago.

Lord_Gareth

The shield still does crappy damage but thanks to strikes it doesn't have to deal high base damage

BESW

I seem to recall a problem with needing to modify the shield to count as a weapon for some of the features, though.

Lord_Gareth

4:14 AM

The shield already counts as a weapon. The trouble is that shields get enhanced separately

Dorian

Shields do count as weapons in many things.

Lord_Gareth

That is, a +1 (AC) shield is not a +1 (weapon) shield

You have to buy it twice if you want it to work twice

BESW

Specifically I remember I had to give it a shield spike for some bizarre technicality.

Dorian

You can probably buff the damage somehow too... Hmm...

Lord_Gareth

@BESW I've seen that particular misreading of RAW before. It's erroneous.

BESW

4:15 AM

Like, it needed to be piercing for something to work?

Lord_Gareth

@BESW There's certain weapon properties & feats that would want that

But nothing I described above needs it

BESW

Fair enough.

Dorian

I seem to remember some way of making shields into weapons for certain builds, IDK how though...

BESW

My notes are opaque.

Dorian

I think I saw a build about it once somewhere...

Lord_Gareth

4:16 AM

It may also have been to pierce certain kinds of DR, @BESW

Though you can get around that by spending 1 maneuver for Mountain Hammer

BESW

Mebbee? I don't think I'd gotten that far in the build.

Dorian

And you'd better use Adamantine for the shield :P

Lord_Gareth

Eh

Adamantine is useful for three reasons:

1. Tunneling

2. Sundering

3. Not being sundered

Dorian

Thematically Gareth.

Lord_Gareth

@Dorian Needs more Riverine

Adamantine can be broken

Riverine can't even be broken by magic

Metool

4:18 AM

Riverine is... force effect, right?

except not dispellable?

Lord_Gareth

@Metool Yep. Two walls of force wedged together with water in between to give it heft

Totally indestructible.

BESW

That is an appropriate modification while keeping the thematic core of the Cap's Shield concept.

Metool

I need the book it's in...

Lord_Gareth

@Metool Stormwrack IIRC

Forrest would know though

Dorian

Because this is a Capt. America, needs to be admantine, because adamantium lol

BESW

4:20 AM

Riverine 128, says Google.

Lord_Gareth

@Dorian Wrong material.

Capt. Am's shield is Vibranium, which is notable for...being wholly indestructible.

Metool

Wolverine?

BESW

@Dorian This kind of excercise is about translation, not transliteration.

Lord_Gareth

@Metool Adamantium is slightly more destructible than vibranium is.

BESW

41

A: Character build for Gandalf in D&D3.5?

Build him by feel SevenSidedDie has an excellent answer about why there's no definitive Gandalf build, but I think we can talk constructively about how to go creating a Gandalf build. You want to "recreate Gandalf from the books" "in D&D3.5 terms." You can't, not precisely. D&D isn't a good fit...

Metool

4:21 AM

Right.

BESW

Adamantium is less likely to asplode when it does destruct, though.

Shalvenay

hrm...what is adamantium?

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay The short answer is "comic book BS". The long answer is "a metal that can only be destroyed by heat when the writers remember that you have to be able to smelt it to use it."

Dorian

I thought Adamantium was derived from Vibranium or something? Thought it was derived from the same material as the cap's shield.

Lord_Gareth

And the bitter answer is "the reason Wolverine turned into a freaking Gary Stu"

Dorian

4:23 AM

Technically Gareth, adamantium can be destroyed in its original state, but when it is smelted and rehardened it becomes indestructible supposedly.

Lord_Gareth

@Dorian No, it's mined as ore and smelted.

BESW

Adamantium is the name for a group of man-made superalloys.

Vibranium is a unique element derived from the ore of an ancient meteorite in Wakanda.

One of Cap's shields is made of vibranium-reinforced adamantium (and sometimes uranium).

Dorian

Hmm... Coulda sworn there was a connection.

Thought something like it was scientist's attempt to re-create vibranium

Shalvenay

@Lord_Gareth: haha :P more or less durable than the armor on a fully fitted Damnation?

BESW

Kinda? Obviously there are a lot of different versions.

Lord_Gareth

4:26 AM

Ultimately it's probably been re-written a million times. The inmates started running t he asylum ages ago in superhero comics.

Magician

Adamantium is just tough. Vibranium absorbs kinetic energy - that's why Cap can take Thor's hammer on the shield.

Shalvenay

OT but chillingly good all the same: youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0

BESW

Hence why vibranium has a tendency to asplode if it is sundered--all that absorbed kinetic energy.

Tritium21

I was apparently invited to the D&D 5e debate room?

Magician

It's open to everyone.

BESW

4:30 AM

@Tritium21 If you were anywhere near the "round/turn" debate earlier today, your messages probably got swept up when it was tossed bodily into the debate room.

Tritium21

usually when i get invited into rooms, its because a post of mine was moved

ahh

BESW

But yeah, every time Marvel visits Wakanda, physics has to show on the doll where vibranium touched it.

I love Wakanda.

Magician

Helps that currently Wakanda doesn't have any vibranium due to Doom.

BESW

Orly? I haven't kept up.

Magician

Doomwar, it was called. Wasn't that great.

Also, I think right now Wakanda has largely been wiped off the face off the Earth, due to conflict with Namor and then the ongoing Time Runs Out thing.

BESW

4:37 AM

If you have to invent a new word to make your plot sound good, you might want to re-think your plot.

...Namor?

Magician

The Submariner!

BESW

Last I checked, Wakanda was landlocked.

Magician

He of the tight shorts!

Giving Namor 1/5th of Phoenix Force may have been a bad idea:

BESW

He Who Is Not Aquaman No Really!

Magician

Actually, he predates Aquaman by a couple of years.

And is actually interesting :P

Pixie

4:40 AM

He Whose Eyebrows Know Not Their Own Power. (Actually I think that's Thranduil.)

Dorian

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Steel-Chthonic
Wish I could have this in 3.5 lol

BESW

(And yes, I know Namor pre-dates Aquaman, but--you just said that.)

Shalvenay

lol@Dorian

Dorian

Got a sword made of it in the PF evil game I'm in though. Also have me one of these
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/3rd-party-magic-items/3rd-party-wondrous-items/rite-publishing/crystal-of-arcane-assimilation

Shalvenay

yeah -- it sounds like a pretty decent tool material, but not quite as good as some of the ideas I've come up with for "do whatever you can to make the best sword you can"

(do you mind if I share my thinking here -- or would you rather I pull you aside for that @Dorian?)

Dorian

4:48 AM

Doesn't matter either way.

More it matters about the others in the room I believe.

Lord_Gareth

If you share homebrew in my presence I may critique it. Understand what you face and do as thou wilt.

Shalvenay

well, this is more of a modern-fantasy line of thinking, but think "carbide edges over a titanium nitride coating, atop a high grade high-speed steel"

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay So you're creating a broken sword factory?

Shalvenay

as in the edges chipping/spalling?

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay As in the edge breaking off of the steel entirely

There's a reason metallurgy always favored alloys over that sort of thinking

Shalvenay

4:51 AM

hrm. I'll have to take a look at that a bit more closely -- I was thinking carbide edging on tools is more of a case where the carbide provides hardness over a structural edge in the underlying steel

Lord_Gareth

You want consistency in the material of your murder device.

Because otherwise you create a stress point where one material connects to another.

And this is bad because it causes your murder device to break

Thus impairing the murder

Shalvenay

actually -- the way the carbide works is it's small particles embedded in the underlying matrix

Lord_Gareth

But why bother?

Pixie

Carbide steel has been used in swords for quite a long time. Whether it's the kind of thing you're envisioning I don't know.

Lord_Gareth

Steel does the job just fine on its own. And if steel's not doing the job, ceramic is sharper and cheaper.

Shalvenay

4:55 AM

Pixie: I'm talking something closer to cemented-carbide cutting tools -- particles of a very hard, abrasive carbide such as WC cemented in the metal edges

AgentPaper

@Lord_Gareth Did you see my death knight?

Pixie

This is what I was thinking of.

Wootz steel

Wootz steel is a steel characterized by a pattern of bands or sheets of micro carbides within a tempered martensite or pearlite matrix. It is believed to have developed in India. == History == The Wootz steel is believed to have originated in India. There are several ancient Greek and Roman literary references to high-quality Indian steel since the time of Alexander's India campaign. Archaeological evidence suggests that the crucible steel process started in the present-day Tamil Nadu before the start of Common Era. The Arabs are believed to have introduced the Indian wootz steel to Damascus, where...

Shalvenay

yeah -- Wootz is not much different from a baseline modern HSS

you'd want the TiN coating in any case, though

(anti-corrosion + anti-galling)

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay There's a big difference in cutting tools vs. swords. A saw or buzz blade doesn't cut the same stuff in the same way.

Pixie

I figured. I don't know a lot about modern tools. :P

Lord_Gareth

4:57 AM

Honestly if you want a modern-fantasy feel go for ceramic. Ceramic is fun.

Dorian

I prefer my Chthonic Steel sword that makes enchanting it cheaper, and the crystal that allows my sword to consume the magics of any magic item I want.

Shalvenay

ceramic could work as well

Lord_Gareth

Takes an edge even sharper than laser-honed steel, lightweight, invisible to metal detectors

Cheap to replace

Shalvenay

the main issue with ceramic is you need to composite it anyway to deal with brittleness

so it's either you go with a metal matrix with a hard abrasive embedded in it (cemented carbide type), or a ceramic matrix with metal fibers in it for toughness (more of a cermet material)

@Dorian: hrm -- could it cut through ceramic-composite armor plate?

Lord_Gareth

@AgentPaper To be perfectly honest, I remember reading it once, developing a vague distaste and then not following through.

BESW

4:59 AM

@RichieSwanson Hi! You'll need at least 20 rep on any one Stack Exchange site before you can type in chat rooms, but you're welcome to hang out until then.

Dorian

@Shalvenay Not yet, but later probably.

Shalvenay

hrm -- how'd that work? you'd need an extremely hard edge to get through it -- you'd be better off using water-abrasive if you wanted to actually cut through it

that'd be a crazy little piece of work btw in any universe -- weaponized water jets :o

AgentPaper

@Lord_Gareth Distaste for what the class was trying to represent (a WoW style Death Knight), or a distaste for the class itself?

Lord_Gareth

Incidentally, I would like to take this moment to state how much I hate Sci-Fi's giant freaking love affair with lasers and plasma weapons.

We have weaponized handheld lasers in real life. You know why they don't get used?

They suck.

Dorian

@Shalvenay Magic, duh :P

Shalvenay

5:02 AM

@Lord_Gareth: there's nothing wrong with an autocannon Sleipnir ;)

Lord_Gareth

Bullets aren't just cheaper, they kill more people, faster.

Plasma's even worse. It takes more energy to produce, is dangerous to store, prone to misfire and explosive reactions.

and is easier to block than boolet

AgentPaper

To be fair, lasers make a lot more sense in outer space, where distances are enough that the difference between a .9c mass driver and a laser is minutes of extra time to dodge.

Lord_Gareth

@AgentPaper Diffusion means that the laser would never hit at a long enough range for that to be relevant.

Shalvenay

lobbing 17" shells with tac nukes in them at a broadside-every-few-seconds-rate does a pretty nice number on whatever it's shooting at

AgentPaper

I agree that plasma is pure nonsense, of course.

Lord_Gareth

5:03 AM

But yeah a portable magnetic field such as can be produced cheaply today will shield you from all plasma fire.

Shalvenay

and it only gets bigger and badder from there

Lord_Gareth

You know what shields you from bullet?

Absolutely god damn nothing.

Sufficient application of bullet will kill anything.

AgentPaper

@Lord_Gareth There are ways around that, though, such as many low-power lasers that combine and focus on the target.

Shalvenay

Lord_Gareth: I want to see the Enterprise try to deal with a Sleipnir class :P

BESW

I am reminded of Bujold's depiction of the history of space weaponry.

AgentPaper

5:04 AM

Mass Drivers are still king for stationary targets, though, I definitely agree.

Shalvenay

autocannons that will sit there and rake you with nuclear-tipped or EMP warheads until the cows come home

a couple of utility highs for energy neutralizers (take that, Starfleet power engineering!)

the ability to go 'no, you are not warping away any time soon)

Lord_Gareth

@AgentPaper Mass Effect solved that fairly elegantly. The trouble with bullet is not accuracy vs. laser, it's that if you miss you just kicked a WMD into random space.

Obviously crapping WMDs everywhere is bad.

Shalvenay

Lord_Gareth: selfdestruct mode + space is big

Lord_Gareth

So ME's society developed two things: 1. computer-assisted targeting 2. failure to use 1 is a war crime.

@Shalvenay ME's bullets are metal slivers fired at FTL speeds

Shalvenay

aaah

so basically a pure KE weapon

vs a true shell

Lord_Gareth

5:06 AM

Yep.

BESW

Space warfare started out as exchanging missile barrages. So they added measures to shoot down missiles safely. So they developed energy weapons. Which were then easily shielded against. Then someone invented artificial gravity.

Shalvenay

@BESW: haha -- graviton physics is fun? ;)

BESW

Now space battles are lethal dances with gravitic lances, which have a very short effective range but no way to counter except to dodge.

The first to get hit loses catastrophically.

Shalvenay

my problem with typical formulations of space battles is 1) lack of good 3D usage, and 2) lack of electronic warfare

BESW

Ship-to-ship hacking?

Lord_Gareth

5:09 AM

@BESW That would take forever.

Shalvenay

yeah, sensor jamming, attacks on various computing systems, or even trying to knock the other ship's powergrid out

Lord_Gareth

Now, I could see trying to disrupt systems with brute force tactics

Shalvenay

@Lord_Gareth -- yeah, such as overloading your sensors

BESW

Also you'd almost immediately get all systems turning heavily-shielded and non-wireless.

Shalvenay

/me is sitting in a Falcon in Eve Online as we speak here

Lord_Gareth

5:10 AM

@BESW Or just cage'd

Shalvenay

@Lord_Gareth: yeah -- redundant systems and protective relays as well

Magician

@BESW That's what Eclipse Phase has grey boxes for - a receiver you attach to a hardwired system.

Dorian

All this g33ksp33k

Magician

Exceptionally handy things.

Dorian

-lost-

Shalvenay

5:12 AM

@Lord_Gareth: what would you do if someone was sitting there, flooding your sensors with wideband noise? :p

BESW

Can I get some help coming up with a name?

Magician

@BESW Shoot.

Shalvenay

@BESW: I have a pretty good random name gen, or do you have specific theming req's?

Lord_Gareth

@Shalvenay Look out a window :p

BESW

Okay, so in 2010 or 2011 a millennial conspiracy nut/ufologist finds a Weird Thing near Mercury. He/she names it Nibiru, and when the astronomy community tries to re-name it, he/she goes public with a massive social media campaign protesting the change.

I need a name and a one-sentence blurb describing the ufologist.

Pixie

5:18 AM

Hmmm. Pretty broad specifications.

BESW

Yeah, that's part of my problem. I just don't have much specific in mind.

I don't want to fall into stereotypes, though.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Hubert Jackson, frustrated science enthusiast

BESW

So: amateur astronomer, good with manipulating social media, either a conspiracy theorist or an exploiter of them.

@Lord_Gareth Is this a reference to something?