TRPG General Chat - 2014-10-01

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12:03 AM

@shatterspike1 Whilst there are a bunch of things in the new edition I like, overall I am generally repulsed by it for a variety of reasons. I think it's overenthusiastic to suppose it'll be everyone's second favourite.

(And the people at my local meetup who don't see it as necessary to pay attention to any D&D editions beyond AD&D 2e will probably continue not caring.)

@Adeptus there are a few little things about it that make me look forward very much to seeing it.

e.g. a couple of scenes I've seen.

and other things i now can't remember, but I remember they made me want very much to see it. ;D

1 hour later…

1:32 AM

@Adeptus I have not seen it, because the plot sounded... unsettling... to me. Ebert describes the problem I anticipate, which is one that would ruin my viewing experience:

> "Always at the back of my mind was the troubled thought that there was something wrong about placing a 12-year-old character in the middle of this action. [...] In what is essentially an exercise—a slick urban thriller—it seems to exploit the youth of the girl without really dealing with it."

@kviiri For undefined but limited magical powers, you might want to look at Ars Magica or White Wolf's Mage (old or new WoD). Both are different but similar - you have skill points in a type of magic, that you can combine to create a spell. Eg, in Ars Magica, you have (basically) verbs & nouns. So, "create fire" can be used to light a candle or throw a fireball. The combined skill points gives your dice pool, and the difficulty is based on the scale of the effect.

@BESW It's been quite a while since I saw it, but I only remember a couple of points where it was an issue to me. And mostly it was "how can the bad guy(s) do this?" Which is by no means unique to this movie

I'm probably unusually sensitive to such themes; I don't want to watch something like that unless it feels... purposeful.

Have you watched Torchwood: Children of Earth?

No, for similar reasons plus feeling that Torchwood was always a bad idea poorly implemented.

I know CoE is supposed to be "Torchwood done right, finally," but I just couldn't muster up enough caring to ALSO overcome my dislike of that sort of theme.

1:47 AM

I mostly liked Torchwood. CoE was well made, but I have no desire to watch it again.

1:59 AM

Leon was, for me, lower on the scale for that, than the average episode of Law & Order or CSI

getting annoyed with the lack of good options for a Warlock.

getting real annoyed.

2:44 AM

@doppelgreener what was my question too short? :P

@Dorian no, see the edit summary

Ah, I don't usually the editions in the question lol

@Adeptus I have, currently watching miracle day actually

yeah it generally doesn't get mentioned, but sometimes it's useful to say it outright, such as when you're referencing multiple editions

@waxeagle I thought CoE was well done, but not the sort of story I want to revisit. And, Miracle Day seems like an attempt to launch an American version.

2:48 AM

I almost thought to put pathfinder in there too, but I haven't seen the DM allow a pathfinder class yet.

We have been allowed to take pathfinder feats though on a case by case basis.

@Adeptus thats legit. I'm pretty sure when we rewatch the doctor in a few weeks here, we'll probably skip TW all together

@Adeptus it was, it appeared on american TV. Its interesting, but there are definitely better premium cable shows now

I have a bugbear with American TV companies taking popular shows from UK (or Australia) and making their own version of them. Why not just show the original? Or come up with something that's your own idea?

economics

original ideas are far more expensive than rehashes

I has DS beta!

Yay for DS beta! (boo for economics!)

yeah, it's...not much at this point sadly

at least...it's not what I want it to be

3:06 AM

Lovely, my question was closed because it's the same.

When it's not.

does the answer on the other question answer your question?

Negative.

Though apparently generating lists is also off topic.

meh

Gotta go for a walk, when I come back I'll take another look and see if KRyan was satisfied with my attempt at explaining why my question is different.

[eyeroll] List questions are not definitionally off-topic, but they're prone to having other problems which do make them bad SE questions.

yeah. You can always contest on meta. Being one of the few non-mod single vote closers on this site, I can say our fiat closures should be reviewed extra criticallly (lord knows I've screwed that up a few times as I've adjusted to the power)

In this case, you've asked for options relating to unspecified situations which you're not even sure exist; that's far too broad. This is one of the reasons that "an actual problem you're facing" is the best underpinning for a question.

Your current edit is slightly better, but it has flaws like referring to portions of the question which are now removed from it.

3:13 AM

The only thing I removed was the line about knowing about other classes built for Warlocks.

And I don't refer to that at all.

You refer twice to a list of classes which isn't actually there.

Unless that unedited line of PrCs is a list, in which case it kinda needs some formatting--or at least punctuation.

It was meant to be a list, but it somehow got crammed into a single line.

But even setting that aside, you're still asking for PrCs that are generically available to all possible permutations of a feature used by a wide group of classes.

@Dorian use the list markdown, or 2 spaces at the end of a line.

I'm not sure how that's reasonably answerable.

3:17 AM

I am specifically asking for classes with a requirement of "caster level" that do not require spells.

actually, further revised.

Classes that actually advance spellcasting level/caster level.

They would actually list that as "+1 existing arcane caster level" or "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" or such.

But that would be useless to a lot of the examples you've given of the kind of build you want this list to be useful for.

Pixies could qualify for a PrC which requires caster level but not spells, but wouldn't benefit from advancing an arcane caster level or a spellcasting class.

But if it did advance them it could further qualify for other things, and affect certain abilities based solely on caster level.

...but it doesn't advance them.

Even their own SLA's are affected by caster level. Their base caster level would be there, but the class could further advance the caster level of those SLA's.

Increasing caster level would advance them.

But advancing arcane caster level or spellcasting class level would not.

And PrCs are very careful to specify that kind of thing.

3:25 AM

It could apply for various reasons.

Also, Factotum! Forgot that one.

Without a particular baseline for the kind of non-spell-class caster level you want to advance, the list is nigh useless because the PrCs on it are going to be designed to support cases which any given application wouldn't meet.

You're dealing with a wide category of edge cases, and PrCs are generally designed to treat one particular kind of edge case while denying others.

"In case it might work for various unspecified reasons" doesn't seem like a clear enough use case to generate evaluable answers.

There are many reasons increasing caster level would be beneficial. Warlock is a prime example, as is Factotum.

I'm not arguing that.

There are spells and spell like abilities that are directly benefited by an increase of caster level.

I know that.

3:28 AM

In fact, many SLA's can still be dispelled as well, and having an increased caster level helps prevent that.

I also know that, it's not anywhere near my point.

Then what is your point? Because you're saying this list wouldn't be beneficial.

And somehow you're reading that as my saying that the concept itself couldn't possibly be useful.

You seem to be telling me that there is little to no point of me asking the question.

I'm addressing the framing and scope of the question, and you're trying to defend the usefulness of its premise.

I'm saying that you've cast the net so wide that either no PrCs will fit the criteria (because they don't all apply to all possible cases), or you'll get a really long list of PrCs which are each for individual edge cases.

In the first instance, well, that's not useful for fairly obvious reasons.

In the second instance, it's a bad Stack question because it's impossible to evaluate whether you'll find it useful because we don't know what you'll use it for--and thus can't know if any of the listed PrCs will help.

If you've got a build you're working on, ask about that.

3:34 AM

I've got about a dozen or two builds I'm working on. That won't help :P

I've gotta go though, I'm missing my free food window.

The possible applications are too many and too broad: it's kinda like asking "What's a PrC for a Cleric?"

There was a question about PrC's for Monks... but they're a bit of a special case...

I'm not sanguine about that one either.

It's basically "Google this for me."

@BESW Not quite, it's: "This will take a phenomenal amount of googling. Has someone already done this work for me?" (All answers note that no, nobody has, everyone has just listed an incomplete cross-section of prestige classes useful to a monk.)

Mmm. It's also a link rot hole.

3:48 AM

Sure, like any request for resources.

Though we're in a community where the good resources can be amazing help and totally buried, so I'm happy with resource request questions being on topic here

4:25 AM

@doppelgreener Those edit explosions get me every time

@Miniman meta Q incoming, too.

> I discovered a bunch of our [rules-lawyering] questions were really RAW questions, though, so I retagged them. Then I found out that's the case for all our [rules-lawyer] questions, except these two:

somehow writing this reminds me of Dragon Ball Abridged (or the other one, I can't remember.)

Vegeta says something like....

"When you were born with a tail, we sent you to earth, because you were a freak. Then we noticed, we all have tails! So now you're coming home."

You actually reminded me of a question I meant to ask

0

Q: Synonimise [rules-lawyering] to [rules-as-written] (and then maybe destroy it)

From this old meta topic, the rules-lawyering tag is for questions about engaging in that practice, or people doing so. It isn't for asking about strict rules interpretations; that's rules-as-written's turf. I discovered a bunch of our [rules-lawyering] questions were really RAW questions, thoug...

discussion tags

shazam!

'DMing a published adventure and I think one of my players might have read it' - too subjective?

4:36 AM

that isn't a problem, though.

that's an observation

What can I do about it without accusing him?

what is he doing that is a problem?

@Miniman Change some of the details

@doppelgreener He seems to know the 'best' options in every situation

is he playing along fine? or, is he carefully drawing chalk outlines around all the hidden trapdoors, carefully filling all the rooms with invisible/hiding enemies with poison gas before the players walk in, strolling up to the hidden buttons as if he already knows where they are, etc

4:38 AM

Part of the problem is that he is frighteningly experienced and knowledgeable, so it might just be his informed judgement

@Miniman is the fact that someone is playing well and using good tactics really a problem?

@doppelgreener And is this a problem? One of the points of "Tomb of Horrors" was learning it well enough to be able to do that, as a display of mastery.

@doppelgreener It wouldn't be, but it seems like other players are getting quieter every time they find a new obstacle

My wife and I played a published adventure years ago, with a friend DMing. I ran the same adventure for my wife & some other friends recently... and the only thing she remembered from the first time was an NPC's name...

I'm glad I asked in chat, this isn't even close to a decent question.

4:41 AM

@Miniman That is a problem, then, which you can ask about.

@BESW So...something along the lines of:

@Miniman yeah, the problem isn't "they might have read the thing", it's "they are solving everything to the point other players are not"

"I wonder if they might have read the adventure" is a tangential concern you could mention

One of your players is dominating the group's problem-solving, and the other players are getting marginalised. You need to figure out how to get the other players back in the problem-solving game.

Thanks for helping me work out what my problem really is, but I don't think it's one for SE

I suspect there are elements of it which have already been asked.

4:45 AM

@BESW Me too, I was just trawling looking for something along those lines

There's a player-POV question about how to reduce their characters' dominance in this kind of situation.

There's also several questions which boil down to "How do I start a healthy conversation about resolving unhealthy group dynamics?"

@Miniman probably a good call; this kind of thing would excel in a forum where you can go back and forth discussing the details of your group and what's happened

This is the question I want, except for out-of-combat situations instead of combat ones

> My generic answer for problem behavior is "talk to the guy," which is harder but often more effective.

Have you tried talking to the guy about how he's solving all the problems?

(And asking him: "have you already read this adventure?")

Anyone familiar with 4E Warlocks?

0

Q: How does a Warlock Familiar Function?

Two questions concerning Warlock Familiars: First, the player must use their standard action in order to control the familiar, so when it does damage does it still proc your Warlock's Curse even though you aren't the one doing the damage? Warlock's Curse Once per turn as a minor action,...

dnd-4e warlock familiars

5:01 AM

@doppelgreener No...Not sure how to say, dude, you're way too good at this game.

@Miniman "Hey, you're really, really good at this. I'm concerned that some of the other players are participating less because of how good you are at solving puzzles. Could you work with me to figure out something we can do to help them get involved? Maybe we should figure out some puzzles that you can shove off to them, or sometimes you can sit back and let them solve it."

"Way too good" isn't a problem. :) Being good at stuff is a great thing, so be happy about that. Treat him like your friend and ally in working out how to help the other players, since the difference is what's the problem.

@doppelgreener Sounds good, I'll give it a go once he gets back from overseas!

Yeah, I've had similar situations and usually "I know you're really good at this, but we need to give the others some spotlight time too, so can you work with me on this?" is quite effective.

notice two major differences here:
(1) treat the problem as external to everyone. it's nobody's intrinsic qualities that are bad.
(2) invite him on board as your ally in working out something good to do about it.

5:19 AM

And in either case, if the reality is that he's just memorised the adventure.... well, you've made sure he knows about the problem in a way that isn't accusative and doesn't get him defensive.

1 hour later…

6:44 AM

Anyone know any good ways to get Power Resistance? I see tons of good ways for Spell Res, but haven't been able to find many people mention Power Resistance.

I can't remember and I can't check right now - is the D&D5e net 1-handed or 2-handed?

Am I in the right place to ask a beginner DnD 3.5e question?

@overactor Depends who's around, depends on the question

Ask and see what you get would be my advice

@overactor in general, yes

I'm going to participate in a beginner dnd group

we met up for the first time yesterday

and our dm (who has played dnd for a few years) explained us a thing or two about dnd and roleplaying

and we discussed what we would like to do

a few of us also dove into character creation

I chose to be a monk because it seemed like fun

I didn't roll too well though

here's the question:

7:00 AM

@overactor Monks, unfortunately, suck.

should I reconsider my class?

@Miniman so I've read

How bad is it in real terms?

My 'friends' talked me into playing 1 the first time I tried D&D, I died in the first encounter.

I'm more of a role player than an optimizer

@Miniman But that's the thing I'm a fraid of

With good rolls, it sucks slightly less. With bad rolls, I wouldn't even consider it.

apparently the best I can hope for is being ignored in combat

I think my stats are

7:02 AM

@overactor Little bit, yeah. If you want to make an awesome character who goes around punching dragons, there are ways to do that, but monk isn't really one of them.

16 Wis 15 Dex 14 Con 12 In 12 Str and 5 Ch

VTC please, two questions in one:

1

Q: How does a Warlock Familiar Function?

Two questions concerning Warlock Familiars: First, the player must use their standard action in order to control the familiar, so when it does damage does it still proc your Warlock's Curse even though you aren't the one doing the damage? Warlock's Curse Once per turn as a minor action,...

dnd-4e warlock familiars

needs to be split up

For example, a cleric dual-wielding spiked gauntlets could cover a lot of monk territory really well.

@Miniman I wanted to use it as an unconventional tank

drawing aggro and evading the attacks

D&D 3.5e doesn't really have tanks

7:05 AM

but apparently, that doesn't work

Mmm. Two things.

The Tome of Battle has a Crusader; one of the experienced players here has described it as "the only true 'tank' in 3.5"

First: Monks are great fun if the group keeps its power level low. If the group can't control its power level, or goes for high-powered characters, monks quickly start to become frustratingly irrelephant.

Second: "Tank" is not a viable mechanic in D&D 3.5, unless the GM allows role-playing to significantly influence NPC tactics.

@BESW What are the fun parts of being a monk?

being able to evade attacks doesn't seem like a very useful skill if no one tries to attack you

@overactor The flavour! Running along walls, punching fire elementals like a real man, dodging like a ninja...

7:08 AM

@overactor The flavour of the thing. They've got a lot of wacky powers for various situations. Unfortunately, most of those powers are underwhelming in practice unless the GM really works hard to make you relevant.

Should I bring up my concerns with my gm?

Yes.

I think there's a Tome of Battle class which might be a better choice for a similarly-flavoured character, but I can't recall what it is.

If I can avoid dying constantly and feeling utterly useless, the flavor is enough to keep me in

If you want to be a melee class of some kind, pick up the Tome of Battle.

I have never heard many words of praise for the standard melee classes, and lots of criticism. And from the same people and others, praise for the Tome of Battle making melee classes fun and viable.

@doppelgreener I'll look into it

What about double classing monk?

7:13 AM

(I am aware of a lot of D&D 3.5e stuff, but haven't played a lot about it, and I've heard enough I'd do the same if I wanted to play melee classes. Heck, if I wanted to join a D&D 3.5e group at this point, I'd probably buy my own ToB before I head along to join them.)

Thanks for the info

@BESW Am I saying things that are OK and reasonable or crazy and wrong?

(can I find the ToB online somewhere?)

(BESW has played far more 3.5e than I have)

@overactor you can probably order a physical copy online, but I don't think WotC ever got into the habit of selling 3.5e PDFs.

Oh hey allow me to correct myself.

DriveThruRPG has the Tome of Battle PDF for sale

@doppelgreener I'll allow it

7:17 AM

@overactor excellent, thank you

The Tome of Battle has the Swordsage variant Unarmed Swordsage. "because monks can only punch straight" as i've seen somewhere. It's basically the Swordsage class, minus armor, add monk unarmed attack progression.

Yeah, Tome of Battle is probably the best sourcebook for "martial" style classes.

It's got strong flavour and some of the strongest non-caster options available.

Ok, thanks a lot guys.

@overactor you're welcome :)

(brace for tongue-in-cheek comment)

Sauron dressing up pretty and gift-giving? I don't know who this Jerry Tokin guy is, but his fan fiction is ruining a perfectly good movie franchise. ;) — Digital Chris 16 hours ago

7:41 AM

Jerry Tokin ^^

8:02 AM

@trogdor I have the Atomic Robo pdf. I also have the digital version of that Tesladyne Field Guide thing we joined the Kickstarter for... a year ago.... as well as desktop wallpapers and posters from that project.

@BESW cool

do I owe you anything for that Kickstarter?

I'm pretty sure you paid me for that back in the day.

mk

just making sure

that was a while ago

I was really excited for it too,... but it started to drag on.

It's still funny.

From "Chapter 1: When Dinosaurs Attack"

> Seriously, when all else fails, and it probably will, riding works. We’re not sure why, but the leading theory is that it’s a bit like when you scruff a cat. Even a wholly engineered genetic monstrosity has four billion years of echoes working through its DNA, and somewhere along the line a mother rearranging its young made a strong impact.

(That chapter begins with a discussion about why it's more efficient and economical to make BIG dinosaurs than smaller ones.)

And there are mnemonic slogans like "If it glows, let them know!"

lol

8:15 AM

I'll put together a package after dinner and link it to you in Skype.

Also, @doppelgreener: I think you want me to read about point buy first, neh?

mk

what did we get from this kickstarter at the level we paid?

Good morning.

@trogdor All the digital stuff--posters, wallpapers, field guide pdf--as well as a physical copy of the field guide and a miniposter. The physical stuff is in warehouse hell, apparently.

@BESW I gave a test-run of my *punk talk last night. Used Kaballahpunk as one of the "Oh my god I don't believe people consider this a genre" items. :)

Hi!

8:24 AM

oh

that sucks XD

@trogdor Alas, yes.

@lisardggY Cool! How'd it go?

Pretty good. A bit disjointed and lacking in examples, but I got good feedback and I'll tighten it up for the con itself, in two weeks.

Sweet.

Also, Elfpunk.

For a moment I thought that said Effpunk, and I thought "I'm pretty sure Diamanda Hagan has reviewed at least three effpunk films."

8:37 AM

@BESW it has a thing for creating your own modes, and i noticed that in the fate system toolkit, there's a point-buy for upgrading your skills - does atomic robo have that?

Watching Cinema Sins while waiting for dinner to cook, and got this amazing line, which someone really needs to turn into a short-form shootin'/cussin'/blowin'-things-up RPG:

> It's like a trainful of Bruce Willises.

2

@doppelgreener Yes. As well as a point-buy for inventing skills.

@BESW oh right yes please that too :D

@doppelgreener Yeah, this question netted me 4 badges, including a gold. :)

9:38 AM

@lisardggY congrats ;)

Oh, @doppeldude, how's the spoiling?

i read part of it, must read more tonight

10:00 AM

dear chat: the chili con carne i cooked tonight was amazing. I wish I could share some with you through the 'tubes. love, doppelgreener.

10:12 AM

@doppelgreener Have you actually tried shoving it through the tubes?

Yeah, the cats ate it

There's too many cats in the tubes

user image

10:29 AM

My cat won't eat anything short of goose liver.

Chili, however well prepared, is quite simply beneath him.

understandable; there would be too much spice and deliciousness on all that meat

ruining perfectly good meat

> Tesladyne Field Guide, Chapter 3: SO, SOMEONE PLUGGED AN AUTOMATIC INTELLIGENCE INTO THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND NOW THERE ARE ROBOT FACTORIES PUMPING OUT HUNTER-KILLER DRONES
> As of this printing it hasn’t happened yet, but it’s only a matter of time.
> On the other hand, as far as we know, this book is one of the few remaining artifacts of The World That Was before the robot uprising. Perhaps you worship it as a religious document. Hopefully your peoples have retained basic literacy so the message hasn’t become corrupted over time. It is also our hope that your leaders don’t ap…

@BESW I want one of these books XD

10:45 AM

@doppelgreener I've been waiting for a good implentation of Chili over IP (CoIP) for years now.

Dos and Don'ts if the robot uprising comes to pass:
- DO form a resistance.
- DON’T try to travel back in time.
- DO reference CHAPTER 1: WHEN DINOSAURS ATTACK. You will find much of it applies to robots too.
- DON’T try to ride the robots though.

5

Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol

The Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP) is a facetious communications protocol for controlling, monitoring, and diagnosing coffee pots. It is specified in RFC 2324, published on 1 April 1998 as an April Fools' Day RFC, as part of an April Fools prank. An extension is published as RFC 7168 on 1 April 2014 to support brewing teas, which is also an April Fools' Day RFC. == Protocol == RFC 2324 was written by Larry Masinter, who describes it as a satire, saying "This has a serious purpose – it identifies many of the ways in which HTTP has been extended inappropriately." The wording of the...

there are some experiments on that front at least

@BESW hahah!

@doppelgreener I'm cutting out a lot of material, like whether it's a more sound strategy to time travel if the robots invented the machine first and you're hijacking it.

> DO NOT be concerned about murdering your own grandpa by accident. Time travel does not exist. When it does: be more worried about your grandchildren! Enroll in Advanced Predictive Patterns Martial Arts with Jenkins TODAY!

> [...] stop, drop, and roll doesn’t work nearly as well on acid. Or industrial waste. Or radioactive material. Or biologically disastrous aerosols. Or gray goo!

11:03 AM

@BESW I was trying to find what I thought was an SMBC comic, but can't find it now, about a time agency recruiting Hitler because he's the person most experienced in fighting off assassins from the future.

Heheheh.

Ha!

smbc-comics.com/?id=3266

And also viruscomix.com/page382.html

> Just because this has never happened and the laws of physics tend to prohibit it doesn’t mean we don’t have protocol for it!

@lisardggY Hehe

Also, apparently from a New York Times article in 1924:

twitter.com/HistoricalPics/status/517026255527768064/photo/1

11:56 AM

> Congratulations! You have successfully opened a door to another world. Nobel Prizes for everyone, right? Wrong! You are currently one slight move away from being vilified as a monster worse than a Hitler/yersina pestis/pterodactyl hybrid. Also, please don’t make one of those (SEE ALSO: Tesladyne Bioethical Chimeras Policy).

They then discuss why finding a parallel dimension where Nazis rule the world "would be quite a relief" compared to the other options they have found. "Because at least it would give you a frame of reference."

$50 shipping :(

?

That's how much the Evil Hat store wants to charge me for Atomic Robo shipping. Which ain't happening.

Ouch. I got under $17.

Which is... not quite 20 in Australian Dollars.

I'll wait and see how much it costs in the local store once it gets here, should be somewhere in the middle of $35 of the actual cost and $85 of cost+shipping.

Are all of these quotes from the core book, or from the, er, field guide or whatever that's called?

12:07 PM

These are from the Field Guide.

Which exists solely to be a repository of such lines.

Is there any way to get it nowadays?

Since even the Kickstarter backers haven't gotten their physical copies yet, no. I suspect it'll become available--at least as a pdf--someday.

You've read the free Atomic Robo comics though, right?

I have a physical copy of the first volume, as it has been passed to me through a chain of flatmates.

Haven't gotten around to reading the rest yet.

12:23 PM

I've only read the author's previous work

Morning

@Aaron 'morning.

[wave]

TIL there's the Science of Scientometrics

which covers topics like "A bibliometric analysis of plagiarism and self-plagiarism
through Déjà vu"

Apparently, if Authors plagiarize themselves, they are more likely to change the text than if the plagiarize someone else

...... how can an author plagiarise themselves?

12:28 PM

You write a paper A, then you write paper B that includes the same results again

@doppelgreener Ah, very common. Publish more than one paper based on the same base research, each taking a different part of the results to make a different case.

or at least partial overlap

pretty sure 'plagiarism' is the wrong word to use there

that's just "writing about something you wrote about already"

I'm studying STS, Science, Technology and Society, which has some overlap, though it approaches the study of science from the humanities and social sciences.

that's why it's called "Self-Plagiarism"

12:30 PM

but plagiarism itself implies lack of consent

@doppelgreener Not necessarily, just lack of credit.

the etymology includes ancestors like literary thief

well i mean

dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagiarism

it's in all the definitions: lack of permission, pretending it's your own (you can't pretend if it is your own), etc

The thing with research papers is: You don't own them

In this case, since scientific publications have a base criterion of innovation and originality, you can't republish the same paper twice - it wouldn't be new.

ahh, so we're talking about this kind of thing, alright

12:32 PM

The publisher is usually just merciful enough to send you an Author's copy

So reusing work you've already published would be an ethical and/or professional problem. Not identical to plagiarism from different authors, but with similar problems.

@doppelgreener Not necessarily. I don't think this is purely a legal/copyright issue.

12:43 PM

Contrary to the usual "scared straight" approach to teaching citation in high school, it's less about giving credit and avoiding theft and more about intellectual rigour and common sense best practices for sharing information. There's also a very strong element of cultural initiation: learning and following citation traditions is a kind of ritual or courtship practice to gain entrance and acceptance in your specific field of choice.

(Using nuclear physics citation practices for a paper on linguistic analysis is going to get you laughed at no matter how rigorously you cited your sources.)

@BESW As far as I can tell, social sciences seem to have much more rigorous citation practices compared to natural science (or at least physics)

I would not be surprised to hear that.

The reason probably being the complete absence of quotes in the latter

I know one reason that many university professors in various fields believe entry-level English classes fail to properly prepare students to write college essays is that (gasp, shock) English composition classes teach literary-analysis citation practices rather than whatever citation practice the student will need to know in their chosen non-literary field.

There's also the thing where I went from writing 1,000 word essays about things I genuinely did not care about and which I had to stretch to fill the essay, to writing 5,000 word essays about topics I was totally enthralled with and could easily write ten thousand words about.

12:56 PM

Yeah, there are many many things wrong with the process as it's currently employed.

I am still confused that people get taught citation in high school, because I sure never was

which kind of makes more sense, since you will learn it, in the correct style, when you need it anyway. And many people will never need to cite anyone in their life

@MrLemon ... from the state of forums I dare say a lot of people could stand to do at least one citation every now and then

Are you referring to the abundance of triple-layered full-quotes?

I refer to the debate threads I could enter on any topic: if I were given a lifetime supply of "[citation needed]" stickers which I could somehow insert virtually into peoples' posts, I would run out in a year.

Ah, yes. Maybe someone should make that into a browser addon

1:05 PM

A white-hat hacker builds a mainframe that hacks into any and all forums on the entire internet, everywhere, using a series of exploits he will never reveal.

He uses it to build a browser addon that lets people insert [citation needed] into peoples' writing.

I though more of a thing where someone can mark something with [citation needed] and every other user of the addon can see that remark, or even provide a citation himself (though that would sadly require moderation of some kind)

Though the white-hat guy would also work

Here's an interesting social study thought: Could this browser teach people to cite?

I got an email from the Zooniverse linking to a grant they were competing for, and asking me to visit the site to vote for whatever projects I liked (hopefully theirs). The page appears to be down. I imagine the entire site is getting DDoSed by hopeful voters.

@MrLemon The people not interested in citations would not have it. c(:

Also I would use it to insert a [citation needed] after my own user name :D

> ★ 3 .... after all this I'm still pretty sure that DCs ought to be restricted to integers c(: - 1d ago by doppelgreener [citation needed]

(maybe it's just me but i find it amusing to call into doubt that it was me)

6 hours later…

6:49 PM

@sevensideddie @heyicanchan please don't make me kick your asses today

bring them old grammar wars here

@mxyzplk Greetings.

@mxyzplk The what? O.o

2 hours later…

8:54 PM

@waxeagle This answer, "your level" in this case is your character's level, maybe?

yep thanks

2 hours later…

10:30 PM

Evening, fellas

10:51 PM

Kickstarter for the Minister of Chance film is now open!

2

11:24 PM

Well, that was a fun boss fight.

1

Q: How do I keep my worlds simple?

I have a tendency to overcomplicate the worlds I build, to the point that it gets in the way of the purpose the world needs to meet. I put in too many characters and places, but more problematic is that I create too many connections between each element of the setting: it's impossible for a plot ...

worldbuilding-process

11:54 PM

@BESW i might actually be able to answer this one... if i can articulate my thoughts around doing so

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