TRPG General Chat - 2013-01-16

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12:08 AM

Hmm.

In order to keep the party on the diplomacy-with-the-enemy track, I think I'll have a player-terrifying Far Realm MacGuffin get stolen to fuel the ritual. That'll add a bit of combat into an otherwise RP-heavy session, and emphasis the "things just got real" nature of the upcoming events.

Last time they met the MacGuffin, the bugbear channelled All Knowledge and turned permanently hot-pink with a white Rogue stripe. They immediately handed it off to the safest, most sane, least-risk-taking group of qualified priests they could find.

(Another criterion was that the priests not be living near any major communities.)

They saw someone burst into tentacles and die just from having the thing bounce off him.

As is becoming customary I'll post a link to my ever-changing adventure notes once I've got something semi-readable.

1:16 AM

Haroom. Another comment pointing out something I feel like I said in the answer. [obsesses with effective communication]

5 hours later…

6:19 AM

I arise in my gory and my wrath!

@Lord_Gareth Fairest and Fallen, greetings and defiance!

(Hey, if you're going to hand me a straight line like that...)

:D

(+25 geek points for quote recognition.)

@SouthpawHare it's a very fine line, as @KRyan pointed out. My answer doesn't stem to RAW but experience from running into a similar issue as you have. Hostile spell effects don't originate from the origin (is bull's strength hostile if an enemy caster is coerced into using it? no). Seemingly, hostile here is a matter of DM opinion

@LitheOhm Welcome to the neverending nightmare that is 3.5 RAW. There is no escape, no clear ruling, and no sanity within it.

6:22 AM

@Lord_Gareth hence my reliance on XP. Thank you, though I've been here a while :)

Hey, don't look at me. All I've done with it is make a man who throws boomeranging grizzly bears at his enemies in a 120-foot line of furry death

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::makes vacuum noises::

@BESW Dai stihó, cousin

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Hail unto thee!

@BrianBallsun-Stanton In Life's Name, and for Life's Sake...

Ohgodwizardsseriesreferenceyay

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:31 AM

Is it bad that I've actually read the oath aloud?

That series is great reading when I'm in a foul mood.

Unfortunately after the fourth book, they put me in a foul mood...

I dunno, is it bad that I consider Ozymandias the real hero of Watchmen?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW oh, I really like the later books :)

I dunno, it felt like the story was done and each one after that was just sorta... there...

And one of my massive pet peeves is stories that don't know when to stop.

@BESW That's a peeve of mine as well, but I don't feel that the later books in the Wizards series were like that. And in any event the cat in A Wizard Abroad is, like, divine

That cat is awesome

Though my absolute favorite was High Wizardry

6:36 AM

I once ran a party through the Fallen One's New York.

They pilfered his desk for office supplies, and gave the dragon in the subway his calculator so it could keep track of its hoard.

I fell out of my chair with approval.

epic win

(This was also where they managed to put 50% of an artifact into 30% of a bag of holding; they were exploring after Kit twisted the dragon's lair.)

I'm working on a campaign right now where the primary antagonists are the Nine Hells of Baator Customer Service Department

(Serving under Farcas, the Minister of Mortal Relations and member of the Dark Eight)

Evidently the NHoBCSD killed the chat

CS seems a bit passive-aggressive for an actual antagonist.

Ah, but that's the beauty of it

Passive-aggressive is how Baator WORKS

6:47 AM

@BESW Most of the time yeah, it does work passive-aggressively. It's a war of tact and cards up one's sleeve

among the Nine Hells, at least

In any event the reason they're the villains is because one of the setting's rulers offered to pay up their debt to Hell by selling off their subjects

And the CSD is using it as a chance to blackmail that ruler further and begin a hostile buyout of that Prime

Enter the PCs

7:00 AM

I wish I had a game to play in. Or run.

@BESW Attempting to write a battle between a pair of archmages that hate each other. Surprisingly difficult thing to write.

Especially since in D&D wizards can casually rape time

And I really do mean that statement in the most clinical of senses

They can rip bits of the future out and stuff them into the present

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Lord_Gareth likewise

@BrianBallsun-Stanton you can also rape time?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Lord_Gareth click the little arrow to see where my comment refers

2

Aaaaaaah

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

7:24 AM

awesome feature of this chat.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton didn't know i could do that :D

Thanks

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@CarolinaLoza oh, there are all sorts of features buried here.

If you care to blast.

:D

8:04 AM

@JonathanHobbs Your grammar in that edit. It causes rheumatism of my pedantry.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@CarolinaLoza We... need to work on your titles

Aaaand she's gone.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yep

Concept: the party defends an artifact from attackers that are trying to strip it of its Far Realm stain (the party would rather the artifact not have the stain, but are concerned about the motives of anyone who wants to steal that kind of thing). Regardless of outcome, at the end of the fight the artifact will splinter into non-artifact but epic-level Ioun Stones for the party to use. The outcome of the fight will determine if the party gets Far Realm stain along with them.

Dilemma: what if the party wins the fight, but gets smart and decides to turn down Free Gifts?

Trying to figure out how to make the event relephant and rewarding without making the players play dumb.

(I fully expect them to not play dumb and take the Free Gifts anyway, but you never know when one of them might have a blinding flash of Obvious.)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW Awesome. Give them plot coupons instead.

8:14 AM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Redeem for one free Moral High Ground?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW redeem for $faction to do something for you of your choice.

Of scope epic.

Here's a smallish blank check. Please spend it all in one place.

Sooo.... a fistful of FATE points earmarked "must spend in one place"?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

bascially

"A Fistful of Fate Points" would be a good name for a band.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

but yeah, in epic, they should be capable of changing the world

So this is a token by which they can do it

8:17 AM

yeah, my physical Gift alternative will be slotless Ioun stones.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW works

"Here, break the rules a bit. They give you bonuses you know you'll want later!"

I'm expecting the Ioun Stone of Perfect Language to be insanely tempting when they know they're about to head deep into the heart of the enemy holdings and negotiate with the leaders of their rival empire.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW so you probably shouldn't tell them about the common hats of "sure we talk goodnow"

Right.

I may buff all the Ioun Stones to be very tempting.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW fun

8:33 AM

@BESW nope

being to the point i don't think is my forte...

and now for something totally random.. does anyone know why it's writing and not writting?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@CarolinaLoza ask on english.stackexchange

ok

Then link it here! I'd like to see what they say.

(I know the answer, but don't have the vocabulary at the tip of my tongue to express it simply and eloquently.)

is there a shortcut other than pasting the url? english.stackexchange.com/questions/100197/…

oh that'll do

That's fine, and if you paste it on a line all by itself it'll do this:

0

Q: Why is writing spelled with only one T?

It has always been a word that intuitively I wish to spell with two Ts. So does anyone know why it's not wriTTing? Could it just be that the T is harder when said in a continuous tense while the T is harder, for example, in the word bite than in its continuous form?

8:43 AM

every time i write it correctly i hear it said in my head in an alice in wonderland type of voice and it has the same I sound as writhing

It does, and for the same reason.

yeah but the t just sounds wrong, it needs to be doubled xD

It has to do with an English convention that vowels are short or long depending on whether there's one or two consonants immediately after.

oh and i got that backwards, when I spell writing properly it rhymes with their silly pronunciation of reading and when i spell it incorrectly it sounds like writhing o.0
i'm tired

(Being English, that's a convention, not a rule, and is frequently and gleefully ignored.)

8:45 AM

i should off myself to bed

true english is a nightmare of a language

i bet gaelic makes more sense

Dec 3 '12 at 3:00, by BESW

@KRyan "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for new vocabulary."

it it makes anyone feel better.. half of the words shakespeare used he made up... like Barney Stinson in an episode of HIMYM

@CarolinaLoza Gaelic probably has fewer loan words from fewer sources, and fewer people from different backgrounds trying to declare what is and is not proper.

ah but i was thinking more about how a T has a D sound but a TT sounds like a T, and a D has a p sound while a DD sounds like an F....

ok I made that up cause I don't remember which sound goes with what double consonant, but you get the gist

That's just orthography, and in Gaelic once you learn the rules they don't change.

8:51 AM

prolly not...

English has cribbed from so many other sources, and was turned into a written language by so many groups in so many different places, that orthography gave up a while back.

if only! XD but still french is pretty messed up... and don't get me going on chinese

(I've spent nearly a year working as graphic designer and unofficial editor on a trilingual book on my local culture, the language of which is currently in Orthography Hell. I've got a lot of Opinions.)

Languages change and evolve. It is in their nature. Standardisation is useful only inasmuch as it provides a foundation to measure change and facilitate communication between dialects, and a living standard is generally crucial to develop in any professional field, adapted and adapting to that field's needs.

what's your local culture?

@CarolinaLoza Chamorro.

I'm a native of Guam by birth, though not by heritage.

8:56 AM

sounds mexican xD

cool

Tiny Pacific island near the equator, just about midway between Sydney and Tokyo.

yes I know where it is xD

That's one up on most people on the Internet.

@BESW Feel free to give it a title that does not trigger your allergies.

Now ashmore and the cartier islands I have NO idea where they are... (though I could give a few smart ass guesses)

or Benin.. who ever heard of Benin?

9:00 AM

@JonathanHobbs Mebbee after dinner.

(Baked pancake and ice cream, with lime juice. Pancake's nearly done.)

@CarolinaLoza [raises hand]

don't know Dhekelia either

@BESW raises hand for both?

damn i really need to go study my flags again o.0 o swear it hasn't been THAT long since I had a geography class

@CarolinaLoza Mostly Benin. There were some Reflections on Growth reports from there a few years ago.

both islands?

Benin. In West Africa? Not an island.

ok, well i'm looking at a list of all the countries... most of the ones i've never heard of have the word isle in it somewhere... o.0 i guess a lot of islands got independence recently...

hmmm ok... i'll buy that.. probably formed after the whole third world war thing in africa ...

9:04 AM

@CarolinaLoza Or are small enough to remain largely unimportant in the wars and trade of the nations that write the textbooks?

i guess.. they gained independence in 1960.. that definitely is something i should have learned

Guam wouldn't be known as well as it is except for its strategic location for WWII and the Cold War.

meh, it was a flag i had to draw up

never heard of jan mayen either... but once again it's an island.. with a flag that looks suspiciously like norway

's

Dinnertime, ta.

toodles

Kiribati! ok favourite island name!

9:09 AM

@CarolinaLoza And yet, it is not pronounced that way. (I'm fairly close by.)

ah no?

then how?

Closest white people usually get is "Kitty-boss."

Ey up

kittyboss = kiribati?

da fuq is all i have to say to that

9:35 AM

Many Pacific island languages were never written down until Europeans tried, using their European orthography. The languages are now, or have recently been, in the process of being reclaimed.

There are currently three or four different orthographical views on our native language, and the fact that the northern islands have different governments means that Guam has an Official Chamorro Orthography that nobody else in the area cares about.

(Do I intend to include this kind of thing in the next campaign it's reasonable to? Yes.)

@CarolinaLoza I'm not exactly sure how the "s" got written as a "t," but the "r" is pronounced so hard that most people hear "t," thus "kitty." And the "i" at the end is there, it's just so softly voiced that it's easy to miss, and thus easy for non-speakers to get away with not saying at all.

Also: that english.se site did not impress me with their Tautology Club answers.

I like the campaign idea xD i recomend rokugan and have a calligraphy, etc showdown at one point!

so kirribott?

xD i'll post again when more english speakers are awake?

:P hey.. i can just.. give out points!

so i can come here, post stupid questions and give out points when i feel like playing santa :D

... ok i'm going loopy i'm really off to bed now gnite all and good game

10:36 AM

@BESW Damn straight. The question is, what kind of campaign is going to let you get into all that lovely detail?

@SimonGill I HAVE NO IDEA.

@BESW Intentional caps lock?

@SimonGill Is there any other way to quote that?

@BESW To quote what?

10:48 AM

Ahhh

11:27 AM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Hey, how's it going?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Debugging hotel wireless

Seems to be a theme of whenever I travel internationally.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Ah, the joys of conventions...

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yeaap

4e Hiccoughs: d20 rolls that get even-numbered results take a -5 penalty. Save ends, but with a -10 penalty. The penalty reduces by 1 for every save already failed.

@BESW huh?

11:33 AM

@SimonGill Just a homebrew that came out of a chat Hobbs and I are having.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

what in the world?

It's hiccoughs. Hiccups?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

ummmm

@BESW ahhhh, would it trigger on all even-numbered rolls?

@SimonGill Yup! [hic]

Including even-numbered saves against it.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

11:36 AM

that seems rude :)

@BrianBallsun-Stanton -2, except Stealth rolls which is -5?

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Just a little bit.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

so how is it imposed?

Whenever the player does something that makes the GM spit-take.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

....

then you need the opposite and positive sid

er, side

11:38 AM

Positive Sid - the Cockney Rhyming Cleric.

3

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@SimonGill heh

I've got this image of a guy in a flat cap channelling positive energy.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@SimonGill hahahahaha

user image

"Cor blimey, that's a nasty lookin' empty 'ead"

11:49 AM

I just discovered through that image that the Twitter account @MagersLugg exists.

My life is richer.

(Magersfontein Lugg is the cockney gentleman's gentleman to Albert Campion. He used to be a cat burglar, until he got so wide the only way out of a house was through the double doors in front.)

(As the books progress he increasingly puts on airs and tries to "better himself," to Campion's constant exasperation.)

So more of a fat burglar

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:01 PM

@BESW linky to book?

Albert Campion is a fictional character in a series of detective novels and short stories by Margery Allingham. He first appeared as a supporting character in The Crime at Black Dudley (1929), an adventure story involving a ring of criminals, and would go on to feature in another 17 novels and over 20 short stories. Supposedly created as a parody of Dorothy L. Sayers' detective Lord Peter Wimsey, Campion established his own identity, and matured and developed as the series progressed. After Allingham's death her husband Philip Youngman Carter completed her last Campion book and wrote two m...

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

that looks fun.

The above picture is from the BBC Mystery miniseries based on them, starring the Fifth Doctor in the title role.

Last I checked they're being reprinted in Britain but not the US.

Now taking bribes...

@BrianBallsun-Stanton I did the full plug for the series to @Rob last night in this chat.

Or the night before?

Recently!

12:09 PM

:)

12:21 PM

Okay, so I said I'd post this when it got halfway legible, in case anyone's interested.

So far so good in hero labs.... trying to create an item so I don't have to buy an entire new suppliment...

Imperial Wars E-3: The Way will be Opened. The Way will be Opened. The Way will be Opened...: docs.google.com/document/d/…

@Rob Hero Labs?

@SimonGill Character tracker/editor for 3.5e/Shadowrun/PF and others : wolflair.com/index.php?context=hero_lab

Ah.

12:37 PM

Hmm. The only official map of the city I'm about the destroy is of the modern-day ruins.

@BESW Sounds right. Most people don't play these events out.

@SimonGill yar. Though I did find two separate campaign discussions on the forums when I first decided to do this.

I'm mostly trying to decide if I should give the party a rebuilt map or not.

@BESW Probably a good idea. Even if it's just a sketch map.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

12:53 PM

What's a good way to reward players in futile situations? Lets say I've planned an encounter with a bomb. Bomb has to go off, if not, they get a huge advantage from all the loot they can gather. How do I reward them for trying to disarm it? Just saying "you failed", seems a little disconcerting.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@William'MindWorX'Mariager look at mouseguard.

Complication or success + "but"

@William'MindWorX'Mariager also, loot's awesome. Why not let them have an honest shot?

They should choose the level of risk they're comfortable with, and be rewarded commensurately.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton I'm experiencing something like that myself now. Sometimes you write yourself into a corner and the game can't just roll with whatever the PCs throw at it.

Bahaha Hero labs 0 Me 1

Saved myself having to buy an update

So long as everyone's okay with that happening sometimes, and you keep reward in mind as @William'MindWorX'Mariager is, I think it works out.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

The idea is something along the lines of finding some ancient ruins filled with lots of awesome. They should be able to pick up what they can carry.

12:55 PM

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Have the bomb damage only some of the loot, other bits survive the blast

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

But on entry a bomb starts ticking down.

Yeah, ancient ruins and bombs. Great setting eh? :P

@William'MindWorX'Mariager So your dilemma is that the loot you've put in front of the party is enough to imbalance the game if they can actually get it?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Yeah, but I also want to leave them impressed by the place.

So I could just leave them a bit, but then they don't get that great feeling.

@BESW It sounds more like "I want to give them some limited choices from the awesome stuff."

Is this a Bag of Holding type setting?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

12:58 PM

Nope.

At least, they don't have one yet.

I like the bomb idea, it sounds very atmospheric, and @BrianBallsun-Stanton's suggestion about Mouseguard's +but mechanics is great.

Add Narwals on Unicycles, that'll impress them.

But you might want to consider the possibility that your players surprise you, and add in a different limiter. "How much you can carry" might be enough, depending on their transport options back to a place they can spend it.

@Rob Or make them look at you like the meds have worn off.

@SimonGill They just don't know what imagination IS! Well, that or I've been plotting too much stuff for Cthulhu dreamlands...

1:02 PM

@BESW Another option is to think about why the bomb is there. Maybe the presence of mortals will tear open a fragile seal to another plane from which will pour demons beyond counting to attack the world?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

What system?

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Probably a less insanely awesome one than @SimonGill is hoping.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Yes

@BESW Bah, you can do that in any version of D&D.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

That does sound interesting. :P

1:04 PM

@Rob The second one, I think.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Anyways, it's a fantasy setting, so demons is an option for sure. And the whole area is supposed to be tied in with some inter-dimensional timey wimey stuff.

"We're sorry, the treasure you're currently viewing is in another timestream. Please try again some other when."

2

@BESW Also an option. If strange things start happening slowly, such as not being able to touch certain things, that can ramp up the paranoia and show why the place was abandoned.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

That's interesting!

@SimonGill I once ran an entire encounter in a dragon's hoard that had been twisted halfway between planes to avoid theft.

The party hadn't been able to quite mimic the feat, so they were about about 1/3 of the way through, leading to them wading through piles of gold like it wasn't there, except for the occasional "Thud!" when they ran into a helmet or something that was.

1:09 PM

@BESW Planar Engineering, now on offer at the Arcana Department of the University of Waterdeep.

This was the encounter that wound up teaching everyone what happens when you put a 1/2-there artifact in a 1/3-there bag of holding.

(About 1/6 of the artifact drops out of the bag into the Plane of Indefinite Articles, without actually breaking or destroying the artifact; so far as it's concerned, nothing's wrong...)

@BESW Brain. Trying. To. Process. The. Wrongness.

@SimonGill Level 30 3.5 campaign with round-robin GMing.

All I did was end the session with "...and the artifact isn't all there, but it seems unbroken anyway," and let the next GM deal.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Jackassery between GMs. Interesting. :P

I'm the only GM around here sadly.

I love being a player.

Well, not the only one, but the one that actually has a proper grasp of the rules to run a campaign. :P

It's hard enough to manage my players.

It was a kind of running challenge: each of us tried to out-do the last guy and stump the next guy.

Anyone who wanted to run the next session rolled a d20 at the end of the previous one. Highest was next GM.

@William'MindWorX'Mariager I enjoy being a PC, but I love being a GM and sticking with one character is kinda hard.

And yes, a bit of social engineering skill can be very useful as a GM.

Though I generally find that a group will respond well to being given some agency and responsibility, and it helps them stay on task.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:21 PM

You mean like initiative tracking?

That's a good place to start.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Use them as a better alternative to off-screen trading?

It depends on what your group needs done and what you personally find onerous.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I like roleplaying most situations.

From initiative tracking, to having a Guy Who Looks Up Rules (or a Guy Who Reminds Us Not To Look Up The Rules All The Time), to building monsters according to your general specifications ("level 12 yuan-ti caster, specializes in melee touch attacks, please") during the week.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:24 PM

Hehe, I bet you've scared your players a few times with that guy.

See what your players are good at, and what would be useful for you.

It's not your game, it's the group's game, and giving them agency in it can really help the sense of ownership.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I've had players help me make NPCs to populate a town. One guy got really into it.

Some systems actually have the players part of the worldbuilding and scene-setting process as a mechanical aspect: even if your game doesn't do that, it can be incorporated more casually.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

So I see why it would help with the ownership.

Then did you ask him to RP the NPCs he made?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:26 PM

He didn't play them, but he did give them traits and personalities.

@waxeagle Heya.

So you've seen it happen.

You can bring that to more or less meta, and more or less practical aspects of the game group experience.

@BESW This is a good plan.

I provide a binder and an index card box for my players to keep their sheets and minis in, and I keep them at my house because our venues change. That way everybody's stuff is there every time.

But I expect them to make sure their junk is in the proper place at the end of every session, and to keep it updated without my supervision. I'll help them level up if they want, but it's help.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I had a player that asked about artificing, and I told him that I was more than willing to incorporate it if he came up with a list of items and effects for me to balance.

Sadly, he never gets it done.

The GM is not in charge, despite what the DMG 3.5 says, and anything that reminds the players it's their game too and they're not just along for my ride, is good in my book.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:29 PM

It definitely sounds like good advice.

I bet it gets players more invested in their characters too.

(And it helps take some of the stress off the GM, who is expected to shoulder an unbalanced amount of the work for the group.)

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Sometimes it feels like they don't care if they die, they'll just roll a new one.

@William'MindWorX'Mariager There are other tricks a GM can use to get a player invested in a character. [grin]

@SimonGill Of which part do you most whole-heartedly approve?

There's a really classic example of a player investing in a PC from an Actual Play post on the MLWM forums. Let's see if I can find it...

@BESW Finding a role for your players in running the game and not just enjoying it.

@BESW howdy

1:36 PM

@SimonGill Unless you're railroading the game to the point that the players are simply mute observers within the bodies of characters that are actually NPCs under your control, the players are running the game to SOME extent already. Why not make it explicit and practical?

(I saw a game like that once. I played in a session of it. It was.... eye-opening, as a GM.)

@BESW Yeah. The important bit is finding out what each player's skills are.

@SimonGill And for that, the moster importantest bit is remembering that skills do not spring full-grown from the head of Zeus.

If you can learn to identify potential in a player and nurture that, whether it's increasing RP skill or designing characters or aiding you behind the screen to accompany him on his way to being a GM, you can really help your group grow.

@BESW No, but people have likes and proclivities too. So they may not be able to create fully-optimised NPCs right not, but they like creating characters and playing with features.

@BESW That's almost a duty - grow your community.

Ah, finally found it: indie-rpgs.com/archive/…

The GM is concerned his players aren't engaged because they aren't RPing; he gives an example of them trying to help one of the players figure out how to use the rules to accomplish the mechanically disadvantageous goal of not killing a puppy when ordered to.

The fact that the guy doesn't want to kill an entirely fictional puppy, and is willing to take semipermanent character penalties that will noticeably delay endgame, IS role-playing, regardless of whether they're largely talking about it out of character.

@SimonGill I think that for many it's a duty they're unaware of, or unsure how to accomplish, or perhaps they don't even realize their RPG group is a community.

@BESW Yeah. 3rd-person is still roleplaying - despite some people's opinions that only talking IC is roleplaying.

@BESW I was thinking of the wider community, not just the local group.

1:50 PM

@SimonGill The player I've got now, who came up with a whole contingent of NPCs for his DFRPG solo PC to have Aspects with, is definitely a third-person RPer.

2:01 PM

nice when the person calling you realizes the error is on her end, not yours :)

2 hours later…

3:54 PM

Heya folks

@Lord_Gareth Afternoon Gareth :)

@SimonGill How's tricks?

heya

@Lord_Gareth Not bad, just trying to catch up on my RSS feeds at the moment.

Going to delve back into writing code in a bit.

4:22 PM

What flavour of poison are you looking for @Lord_Gareth?

2 hours later…

5:58 PM

@SimonGill Contact or injury poison; Mykael the Grinner and his Laughing Ones prefer odd avenues of attack and favor a powdered toxin known as Mirthlocke that causes paralysis and even death when it touches the skin.

Needless to say they find cultures that like to shake hands hilarious

@Lord_Gareth Hilarious? As in they are highly destructive psychopaths on a Joker level?

Not always. They're fatalists.

They consider the idea of struggling against predestination to be literally laughable

Their, ah, ideology didn't inform their tactics (they were inclined towards ambush, poison, unfair fighting and deadly magic beforehand) but it's certainly changed the presentation, as it were

Sounds something like they went from a place where frogs were a delicacy fit for the gods to some place where they were highly toxic and deadly. That's got to screw a culture up.

Well, mostly what happened was their dimension-spanning empire imploded in a major magical apocalypse and the survivors split into two factions

The Laughing Ones learned from their mistake

The Kolari didn't

(The two groups hate each other fiercely)

So in the grand scheme of things, the Laughing Ones are the "good guys". They're murderous assholes, yes, but they're socially responsible murderous assholes mostly interested in being left alone.

And to be sure they get left alone, they use contact poison in a first strike manner?

6:06 PM

Pretty much. The Laughing Ones don't march to war, but they definitely seem to have a proliferation of corpses hanging on the edge of their territory

Most of them with very surprised expressions

@Lord_Gareth I bet.

Do you expect them to attempt to kill the players outright?

No, but the PCs are cooperating with the Laughing Ones and I've got a pair that'd be interested in trading venemous secrets

Plus I want, you know, the poison thing to fly well in cooperative combats

Ahh, ally rather than enemy.

That does make the design a little harder.

Indeed.

Since they need to be dangerous but not overpowering, since they're shady enough that the PCs may just attack 'em

You could treat them like spells. It sounds like they are basically Contingent Hold Person cast with a "When bare skin touches this patch" trigger.

6:15 PM

Hrm, handheld traps

By RAW of course a trap can't be on a mobile surface

But screw dat

Don't really want to craft them as Contingent Spells because of the gold and XP costs

Which would be as bad or worse than poison

7:09 PM

@Lord_Gareth I'm thinking of the equivalencies you can use to think about the effect from a different stand-point.

Given WBL though - aren't consumables like this effectively free?

2 hours later…

9:08 PM

@LitheOhm Heya, how's things?

9:28 PM

@BESW Morning :)

Hey.

I think I may have found a confusing bit of D&Ds treasure guidelines.

9:42 PM

Sigh. I'm editing my "kick them while their down" answer to have a clearly-labelled section about combat heals being rare in the 4e world, because nobody is noticing that paragraph.

@BESW <blink> tags?

Just kidding :P

Is this too much like the wielding of a clue-by-four?

## Addendum: "Kill him before he heals again" *isn't* a no-brainer in 4e

In 4e, NPCs and monsters are mechanically distinct from PCs. One of the results is that no NPC has more than one healing surge per tier, and very few have any more healing powers than `Second Wind`.

This means that *unless a monster has prior knowledge of the PCs* he has absolutely no in-game reason to expect they'll be able to heal dire wounds repeatedly, or that a particular character will have the ability to grant multiple massive heals to others.

It looks alright to me.

One of the basic tenets of the 4e world is that PCs Are Unique. Not just above-average: unique. Both in-game and mechanically they have abilities and potential that the rest of the world cannot match. This is why they are heroes: nobody else can be.

Healing is a major mechanical representation of that.

@BESW And that's one of the enjoyable things about it :) It enshrines the player characters as major elements of the world. As it should be.

9:52 PM

One of my great joys as a 4e GM was discovering that I didn't have to constantly come up with lame excuses for why the local Tower O' Wizards wasn't dealing with the current adventure's problem themselves. With Astral Projection and a handful of cheap scrolls. From the comfort of their armchairs.

Because they have 3 healing surges each, and magic strengths makes you fear attacks against your weakness more than you did before the magic.

That makes more sense when said a different way.... blah.

10:09 PM

Hopefully, people will see that change now :P

10:46 PM

Hail unto thee, @BESW

11:00 PM

@Lord_Gareth Bird I never wert?

@MarkRogers True, but until that happens you'd never think it worth the time and ammo in the middle of a firefight. And PCs in 4e are absolutely unique, as I just said a little bit higher up in chat, and more eloquently.

It's what makes them heroes.

@SimonGill unproductive. You?

@LitheOhm I thought you were calling me unproductive for a second then... Might need more sleep tonight.

@SimonGill lol not at all.

Might make an NPC before getting to homework today. I've done next to nothing since I got out of bed

this isn't good

@LitheOhm Not if you want to be done before your week resets next week.

[note to self. Young Wizards reference: check. Percy Bysshe Shelley reference: zilch.]

11:27 PM

@SimonGill yep

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