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12:06 AM
Heh. I recently got a downvote and some interesting comments because I gave an answer that assumed "normal" campaigns weren't full of self-aggrandizing jerkfaces.
 
[finds]
 
Aaand question posted.
Now to wait for Changeling players
 
[found]
 
@Problematic ?
 
I was searching for the question of which you spoke. Found it. Or at least one that fits the criteria.
 
12:12 AM
Yay question upvotes!
 
The one where I assumed players weren't self-aggrandizing jerkfaces?
 
I'd had worries that people would consider a homebrew balance question to be offtopic
 
Homebrew balance questions are totally kosher provided they're presented in the framework of the site's "can be answered, doesn't invite debate" criteria.
 
@BESW Nope, the other one.
 
@BESW Well, that's the trouble with asking about balance. A lot of times it provokes debate even if you try to make it not. Like monks
 
12:15 AM
Aside from a few trouble spots, "is this roughly the same power as that?" provides enough context and a narrow enough frame for it to work.
@Problematic Ah, you mean the one where I was told to get over the illusion of GM mystique?
 
Not that one either!
 
Just link it you tease.
 
So, which one did you find?
 
12:31 AM
I was reading this one
 
Ahah.
 
Oh, hey, @BESW, I wanted to suggest something to you that might be interesting research material for FATE games etc.
 
Ooooh?
@Problematic It's probably indicative of... something... that you could find a recent answer with similar issues other than the one I was thinking of.
Probably of my inability to communicate.
 
There is a Changeling: the Lost supplement going by the title The Equinox Road. It deals in the Changeling endgame; that is, the Third Act when characters bask in the full flower of their potential and face down enemies and plot lines that are truly epic and catastrophic. That part is going to be precisely useless to you.
However, it has two sections that could be incredibly inspiring and/or useful. The first is their chapter on the True Fae - nigh-omnipotent beings which must paradoxically reduce their power in order to exist at all. True Fae require narrative conflict in order to survive and their entire political, social, and even ecological existence revolves around telling stories that manifest as hideous reality, devouring each other's souls with Legends.
BRB
 
I must go! ttfn
 
12:41 AM
@Lord_Gareth no
 
@BESW The other part you might want to read is the appendix - The Game of Immortals
 
 
3 hours later…
3:26 AM
@Magician [waves]
 
Hello
 
How's Brian holding up?
 
This week seems to be better than the last. Though it's only Tuesday.
 
4:05 AM
Hey everyone, exciting times for Rule of Cool Games: Legend 1.0 has been released!
 
@KRyan Hi!
 
(and I promise that'll be the last time I spam that)
 
Nice answer to the race creation question.
 
thanks
 
Good explication on why the choices matter and what to keep in mind when making them, instead of just presenting rules.
 
4:07 AM
yeah, there aren't really rules
so it was really kind of just an info dump of some of what I've noticed with it
 
I thought it was good because instead of saying, for example, "Don't use conditional bonuses," you made it clear why you thought they should be avoided.
It lets the reader come to their own conclusions.
 
mm
 
5:05 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan hi!
 
@BESW Hola.
 
What's new?
 
Summer's arrived, and my FATE game has been derailed by circumstances after barely two sessions.
 
Aw.
My DFRPG game is in a similar situation.
 
And my usual Ars Magica game is stalled for the same reason. Well, no so much "stalled" as "continuing without me for a while".
 
5:16 AM
Heh.
I'm trying to get the FATE game room more sufficient without me.
 
@BESW I believe the proper response is "snerk"
 
Sigh.
 
I appreciate what the channel has become, regardless of how many actual sessions are run, though.
 
Glad to hear it.
Umm. What's the SE I should be sending this guy to for his android problems?
 
SO
I think he landed on us because "game" in the name.
 
5:26 AM
Yeah.
I see no evidence that he's recently said anything at all in that room.
 
Me either, I was trying to offer him something besides the door hitting him on the way out.
 
Mhm.
Ah, I see. He asked... 12 days ago.
 
For some reason the mention at the end of the message makes me twitch
 
at all?
Oh, you mean the way he's using it in our chat. Yeeah, well.
 
Now I just have to go see what that's all about.
...and I'm back here, procrastinating instead of finishnig my lecture.
 
5:49 AM
Re: dire koala, we had actual dire wombats here in Oz: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diprotodon , amongst other things.
 
I'm not sure if Australia has more Weird Animals than any other place, but it's certainly more brash about them.
 
I'm fairly certain we do. Isolated evolution would do that.
 
I think the only reason D&D still gets away with the whole "dire X" trope is that there are very few animals, if any, that rhyme with "dire".
Once you get one of those, all pretense of viciousness goes straight out the window.
 
When the continent is ruled by dire wombats (dire dire hamsters), what can you expect
 
Fair enough on both counts.
 
Gobble of Doom (Su)
 
I like how you can stack templates in Pathfinder (or maybe D&D too, I don't remember). Dread Fey Celestial Savage Tenebrous Dire Werefryer. Of Doom.
 
Lich
 
....paragon.
 
6:09 AM
Apocalypse Swarm?
Seems fitting that an überdire turkey would come in swarms.
 
Would an infernal (or elemental?) dire turkey come pre-cooked?
 
6:47 AM
The trick with stacking templates has always been to do so in the correct order, as they change the type of creature, and many of them don't apply to all types. That said, the dreaded pink dragons (red half-white dragons, immune to fire and cold damage) are indeed dreaded.
 
Heheheh.
Reminds of the cheap "summon something commonly known to be vulnerable to an element, give it resistance to that element" gag.
"Why aren't these ice monsters melting?!"
 
lol
I hate that
especially when it happens in a game that expected you to only win because you knew the weakness of what you were fighting for the first half or so of the game
 
Hah. At an Ars LARP Brian ran, and had the absence of mind to invite me to be an npc "jester", I assaulted some players with illusionary zombies. Players threw all sorts of magic at them, from fireballs to custom made dezomibifications, and it all failed to affect them in the slightest. Players concluded they were too powerful.
 
Illusions: one of the cheapest ways to scare.
 
I saw an illusion build, or feat, or something
that let you deal damage with illusory fireballs and such
I never saw the point of that
when you could have just gone for like,.. actual fireballs
 
6:52 AM
In highschool, with AD&D2e's very loose ruleset, my players learned to attempt to disbelieve any encounter, right at the outset.
 
Well, normally people take a couple of swings at illusions and figure it out. Magi don't do that. They throw spells at them that target bodies, and spells fail, and OMG WAT IS HAPPENING.
 
It was AD&D2e, so there weren't any actions wasted, just a WIS check, I think.
 
@trogdor Versatility.
Aside from the fact that at high levels your illusions could deal 115% damage compared to the real thing.
 
@trogdor Properly built shadowcaster can emulate any evocation or summoning spells with his illusions (insane versatility), and they are 120% real when revealed to be illusions. "Go on, disbelieve it, punk, make my day."
 
The idea is that a level 3 spell slot containing fireball is inferior to a level 4 spell slot that can be any evocation spell level 3 or below.
 
6:54 AM
@BESW mutual obscure knowledge of useless stuff high five
 
@Magician /)
I once built a shadowcaster gnome who specialized in non-attack evocation/illusion.
If you find stuff without saves or variables... [buff buff buff]
 
ah
so it was basically cheese then
 
7:11 AM
Even at non-optimized levels, it's both fun and versatile.
 
I can see that
I am especially fond of the idea of summoning illusory monster/troops of some kind, and watching my enemies waste resources on them
 
Wouldn't it just make the shadowcaster a sort of spontaneous caster?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan They essentially are
 
You could just refluff a sorcerer for that, couldn't you?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Not with the versatility.
 
7:15 AM
Sorcerer wouldn't work nearly as well. also, not shadowcaster, wrong name, I apologise. Shadowcaster is from Tome of Magic, and is terrible.
I don't actually remember the name of the prestige class
 
If a shadow(mage?) prepares one 4th-level illusion spell, he can at the moment of casting choose any summoning or evocation spell of 3rd level or lower for it to mimic.
 
Does he have to know the given spell? Have it in his spellbook?
 
No.
 
So that's the tradeoff from sorcerer then. Fewer spell slots (due to the spell level bump) but a much wider spell selection, which is where sorcerers are usually stumped.
 
Yeah.... actually a sorcerer who goes into shadowmage can be pretty powerful.
Since the limited spell selection stops being a problem.
However, because sorcerers get spells a level behind most other casters, and shadowmages are mimicking spells a level below the slots, his potential might be crippled anyway.
 
7:19 AM
yeah
I actually liked sorcerer a lot
but I did dislike the slow spell progression, actually even more than the small number of known spells
 
So do I. Well, my last character was an Oracle (in PF) but the principal is the same.
 
Of all the stupid 3ed builds, I most regret not playing a MMMage. He was almost legit, required a prestige class from Dragon Compendium and DM allowing Chain Missile (Spell Compendium) to be treated as a Magic Missile, which it was, just higher level. He'd take other prestige classes to do with force effects, and stock up on metamagic. All he'd ever cast would be MMs (with extra missiles and extra damage on each one), metamagiced to whatever level.
I estimated about 200 damage off high level slots, which don't require an attack roll, don't allow a save or SR, and pass through Shield. Plus he'd have all sorts of nifty force tricks, but that's incidental
 
I always liked the Invisible Hand prestige class, myself.
 
Not the highest damage by far, but reliable. Plus I'd call all combinations of metamagic different names, and shout them as I cast them. Dragon Slap Missile! Inponderable Banana Missile!
2
 
Heheheh.
 
7:31 AM
I've a friend who did some work a few years ago for a mostly-reskinned Vegetable Monk variant, with remarkably silly fruit and veggie-based martial arts maneuvers.
Strawberry Strike!
 
Was he dedicated to the Squash Kachina?
 
@BESW A disturbingly erotic pose, I must say.
 
Thank you for that image. And now, I am off to war^H^H^Hwork.
 
7:39 AM
G'bye.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:58 AM
I bring you all some scenery
 
10:35 AM
The most unbelievable thing about Lake Hillier is its name.
 
Yes it is more like an inverse hill
so it is the least hilliest thing possible
 
...somewhere in the Enchanted Forest, there is a lake called Unhill.
 
10:50 AM
@BESW Is that a thing that was already a thing or is that a thing that you just now decided is a thing?
 
This is now a thing.
 
11:10 AM
Can we get this guy voted up into chat?
The question's deserving.
No big rush, as I'm going to have to go afk for about half an hour to an hour soon.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:02 PM
Woot! [badge:strunk-white]
 
@BESW bravo good ser! (or madam I don't think we've had a gender reveal party for you yet)
 
Wait, that gets a party?
 
@BESW it's an emerging tradition
the short version: take a conclusive ultrasound pick in a sealed envelope to your cake decorator, have them make a cake with pink or blue filling (depending on the picture). Invite all of your friends and relatives over and have a big moment where you cut the cake and all find out the sex of your child at once.
 
Ah.
I'd seen ads for those cakes at the local bakery.
 
@waxeagle that's kinda cool
 
1:09 PM
@LitheOhm yep. Depends on the couple. It's a complete no-go for us for a variety of reasons
 
my bro already had his boy or they would've loved that
@Phil you might beat me to the silver review badge for first posts
 
I swear rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/26437/… is a dupe of something
any thoughts?
 
none I recall seeing
 
I thought so too, and supplied a goodly handful of similars but couldn't track down a duplicate.
Usually it's "my player isn't interested in X part of the game" or "my players are too mechanically-minded" or the like.
 
yeah. Or 'the party' instead of 'a player'
 
1:14 PM
16
Q: Strategies for dealing with turtle or roach players?

AprecheHow should GMs deal with players who turtle or roach? By turtle I am referring to players who obviously wanted to play because they joined the game, but when they're actually at the table they keep their heads in their shells. They're too intimidated or shy to actually role play. They just sit q...

 
good call. looking now
 
I'm trying to figure out how to bring the line from Fate Core 31 into the issue without seeming like I endorse it as an excuse to abuse the poor guy.
> You must figure out why your character is going to keep getting involved in these more dangerous things. If you don’t, the GM is under no obligation to go out of her way to make the game work for you—she’ll be too busy with other players who made characters that have a reason to participate. (Fate Core 31)
3
 
I see Besw mentioned that one
 
would that be exact? Seems different than 'invest in char'
 
@LitheOhm Yeah, I don't think that's quite the same.
 
1:16 PM
@LitheOhm true. I guess it's not quite the same, though I think the source might be similar
 
The answers will be different. Subtly, perhaps, but a useful distinction.
 
@BESW this
 
If it's getting starred, I'm putting in the citation.
But it's not the sole solution to this guy's problem; he's also passive in terms of rules and actions.
This isn't a role-playing issue.
 
have a good day y'all :)
 
ttfn
 
2:07 PM
Netflix thinks the 2005 Aeon Flux film is an "ominous crime movie."
 
@BESW I saw that at some point, but don't remember any of it
 
The original shorts were quite astonishing in both good and bad ways, but generally are worth at least knowing about. Just watching a couple is more than enough, as they tend to be repetitious.
(Except the last season, which isn't really worth watching at all.)
Aeon Flux isn't supposed to have a plot or a satisfying conclusion. Of course, as a popular money-making film it must have both.
 
@LitheOhm silver review badge for first posts?
 
@Phil you get one at 250 reviews IIRC
(and a gold at 1000)
I was oh so close to the reviewer badge before the new queues came out and I had to start over :(
 
ahhh, didn't realise that
 
2:18 PM
....
Dear Netflix: Liking classic Doctor Who should CONTRAINDICATE an interest in the Catherine Tate Show, not make you think I might like it.
 
heh
 
Heya @BESW
 
I'd rather watch a spinoff with Adric, Mel, and Captain Not The Pirate Jack.
@Lord_Gareth Hi.
 
Didja get my messages on The Equinox Road?
 
Yes, but I don't exactly have access to them.
 
2:24 PM
Ah
Shame.
[Sighs] Pretty legitimate set of criticisms removed from the highest-rated answer in the latest Monk question.
 
@Lord_Gareth mods have tightened the screws on comments. Might merit a meta post
 
My players don't really collect books at all, nobody I know has interest in that setting, and our FLGS survives on 3.5 and TCGs.
@Lord_Gareth Is there a particular reason you feel that your post is insufficient rebuttal?
 
@Lord_Gareth ultimately though down votes and alt answers are your real recourse
 
@BESW I didn't actually make a post. I offered some criticism on another answer.
 
If your criticism wasn't taken, then go write your own answer or deal.
The other guy's entitled to be wrong if he wants.
 
2:29 PM
and just so you know. It's way way way easier for a mod to hit the "purge all comments" button than it is to try to pick their way through the field of bodies.
 
I think there's an increasing tendency for people to rely on having conversations/criticisms in comments
 
@Phil yeah, and that's not what comments are for.
 
But there's not a lot of other places to leave criticisms
 
They are intended for clarification or mild correction. Outright disagreement generally merits an entirely different answer.
or a chatroom
 
If you are critical of an answer, provide a different one that you are not critical of
 
2:31 PM
Hey, I upvoted the answer I felt was correct.
Anything I posted could only be a supplement to that.
 
@Phil make sure to downvote the other one too.
 
Esser-Z: Tulsa police say a woman came home to find her husband dead in the garage. Police said the man was found with his hands and feet bound and he had been decapitated. Police surrounded the home near 45th & Sheridan during the investigation. They told FOX23 they think the unusual death may have been a suicide.
Wat
 
@waxeagle I have found that dropping a "why I downvoted or didn't upvote" comment is often helpful, if I can be specific about it and I think the answer has merit otherwise.
 
Huh. I don't object to the tag changes on my Changeling question but I am confused by them. Why was the nWoD tag added when I'm only asking about Changeling? Why was the [Mechanics] tag removed?
 
@BESW yes. If there are specific elements/items in the answer that are fixable it's helpful. if the entire answer is irredeemable then it's not.
 
2:33 PM
For example, a couple hours ago I left a comment on one of Sard's answers that made him realize he had presented his opinion in a way that came across contrary to his intent.
yeah.
I know I get derailed in comments sometimes, but I try to be aware of it.
The one case where I think it's "okay" for comments to turn more discussiony is if one of the participants doesn't have the rep to chat yet.
 
@BESW it's hard to stop at the first comment.
 
At the very least I try to keep them turning back toward the post they're made on.
 
@BESW yeah. that's a very hard case. Mods can grant chat permissions to low rep users if it's needed. If I'm around I'm willing to do that as long as it's in a side room.
 
good to know, thanks.
 

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