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2:38 AM
@SethJ You either have to revert back and post your edits as an answer, or convince him that your new question is more worthwhile.
If you choose the former and still like the new question then ask it yourself as a separate post.
3:02 AM
@jake Another mazal tov to Jake, bo bayom. :)
3:54 AM
@doubleaa, what about now that Fred has answered?
4:22 AM
@SethJ I was just trying to explain the Tosafos as I understand it, not answering any more specific question. I personally don't mind if you edit the question or post another answer or both.
2 hours later…
5:59 AM
@IsaacMoses I believe so.
@DoubleAA @IsaacMoses What are "festa" (in the Pledge) and "fest" (in the Gettysburg Address)?
6:10 AM
@msh210 I guarantee there are Yodeyans who know Yiddish significantly better than I.
@HodofHod Time's almost up before your chatroom freezes judaism.stackexchange.com/a/28601/759
8 hours later…
2:11 PM
"What gives" always reminds me of this question from a competition a few years back.
2:25 PM
@msh210 Sorry; dunno. I suspect that your command of Yiddish/Yeshivish is stronger than mine.
2:41 PM
A: Welcoming new users

msh210I recommend that, perhaps not in an initial welcoming note, but after it is clear that a user is here for more than a one post and for more than one day, the user be referred to "Where do you live?".

@IsaacMoses After posting my reply to your comment, I edited it. So you may not have gotten pung. So now you have. :-)
3:13 PM
@msh210 It depends on the reason for the "Where do you live" question on meta
Is it just so we can figure out a geographical distribution of our users, or is it so we can plan something like a get-together?
@Daniel The latter AFAIK.
If it's the latter, then the responses from people who have only been here for a day or a week might just drown out the responses of people who would be more likely to attend
@Daniel Well, yeah, see @DoubleAA's comment on my answer. Feel free to suggest an even lengthier time. (Maybe suggest it in a comment there, for wider exposure.)
3:42 PM
The moon holds of the Chazon Ish, because after the Churban, the Astronomical Units shrunk in size. — Double AA 1 min ago
4:24 PM
> His estimate of 43,000 is off by a scale factor of 2! What gives?
That's a factorial. :-)
@msh210 A trivial one, though.
@IsaacMoses Triviality of trivialities, all is trivial.
@msh210 "(His estimate of 43,000 is off by a scale factor of 2)!" -- is that better?
@MonicaCellio But... then the whole thing is a factorial.
@msh210 I guess that 3! = 2! * 3 = 6 is pretty trivial, too, so your statement can be proven by induction.
4:34 PM
@IsaacMoses Yeah, for whole numbers.
@msh210 You've got some weird function designated by a Greek letter for other reals, right?
In mathematics, the gamma function (represented by the capital Greek letter Γ) is an extension of the factorial function, with its argument shifted down by 1, to real and complex numbers. That is, if n is a positive integer: :\Gamma(n) = (n-1)! The gamma function is defined for all complex numbers except the negative integers and zero. For complex numbers with a positive real part, it is defined via an improper integral that converges: : \Gamma(z) = \int_0^\infty t^{z-1} e^{-t}\,{\rm d}t. This integral function is extended by analytic continuation to all complex numbers except ...
@msh210 Thanks. Decidedly more difficult to demonstrate the triviality of
@IsaacMoses True. In my dissertation, I thanked "my first topology teacher, Alphonse Vasquez, who taught me that everything that has been proven in math is tautological, and if one doesn’t see it as such, he hasn’t sufficiently wrapped his head around it".
@msh210 Nice! Did he or you quote Kohelet?
4:43 PM
@IsaacMoses :-) No.
Q: Is mathematics one big tautology?

Coffee_TableIs mathematics one big tautology? Let me put the question in clearer terms: Mathematics is a deductive system: it works by starting with arbitrary axioms, and deriving therefrom "new" properties through the process of deduction. As such, it would seem that we are simply creating a string of equi...

@msh210 Here's a Physics dissertation that quotes Tanach and Chazal (see p. 6).
@IsaacMoses I see. Nice.
Anyone have contact info for R' Alex Schutz? He may have considered this question at some point. — Isaac Moses 24 secs ago
ISTR that someone here may be in contact with him.
@IsaacMoses It is in the acknowledgements rather than in the substantive content, though. There was a court case of some sort (civil suit, I guess) in which someone claimed he was damaged in that his hair turned white overnight when faced with trauma caused by the other party. The tortfeasor said that that's impossible; and the court ruled with the plaintiff, citing the g'mara that describes R' El'azar b. Azarya. (My father has a hard copy of the opinion/order/whatever it was.)
@DoubleAA That question asks not so much what its title says but "...and if it is, is that bad?" -- and that's more what the answers address. (Some of them actually admit that, yes, math is one big tautology.)
4:56 PM
@msh210 Whoa. I'd appeal on the basis of the purported medical expert's standing as such.
@msh210 I see it more like automatic type-disambiguation (like when a function has multiple overloads with different args) -- since the whole thing can't be a factorial, we have to fall back to other meanings of '!'.
@IsaacMoses I doubt that was the only support. I'd have to reread the opinion; it's been many years.
@MonicaCellio Ah, I guess my math head was getting in the way there.
@MonicaCellio Mathematicians don't rely on compilers cleaning up after their imprecisions like programmers do. ;^P
@IsaacMoses ok, how does a mathematician properly notate the sentence in question, then?
> His estimate of 43,000 is off by a scale factor of two! What gives?
Or, if you mean the factorial:
> His estimate of 43,000 is off by a scale factor of 2!. What gives?
Or, if you mean the factorial and wish to be clear:
5:03 PM
@MonicaCellio IANAM, but I suspect that a true mathematician would eschew sullying himself with such mundanities as the concrete distance to the Moon and expressing surprise.
> His estimate of 43,000 is off by a scale factor of 2!, which is substantial. What gives?
@IsaacMoses Ouch.
I mean, you make a good point; but, on the other hand, that means I'm no true mathematician.
@msh210 I'd probably claim, in the course of rhetoric, that you're not a Scotsman, either. Wouldn't mean I'm necessarily right.
@msh210 ... but you probably would never consider actually breeding a cat and a dog, would you?
@IsaacMoses I had to look up the reference.
@IsaacMoses "Cross" is an important part of the joke.
@IsaacMoses for sure, but for the isur kil'ayim.
@msh210 Yes, and a programmer would probably insist on applying it type-appropriately and responding that Cat.Cross(Animal a) throws an exception when a is not a member of type Cat or some subtype thereof.
@msh210 Nu? You're a Halachic Man first and a mathematician second. Nothing to be ashamed of.
@IsaacMoses ... and that the function prototype for Cat.Cross is probably incorrect to begin with, since it should explicitly only take a Cat as its argument, rather than an Animal.
5:21 PM
@IsaacMoses Wouldn't it make more sense for extension to other uses to have a cross function with two arguments?
All, is there any reason judaism.stackexchange.com/q/16333 isn't off-topic?
@IsaacMoses right -- if the interface actually is Cat.cross(Animal), rather than Cat.cross(Cat), then implementations have to handle it somehow. But that would be a poor interface choice, as you note.
@msh210 Yes. Proper Hebrew pronunciation is an element of both Torah learning and prayer.
@msh210 it depends. You can certainly have a static class with a cross(Cat,Cat) function, but if you have a lot of animals, you don't really have a way to specify "cross(Animal, Animal) but must be the same" in any language I'm familiar with. It's not uncommon to have this.function(operand) style, in part to dodge this problem I suspect.
@msh210 this makes sense (along with the cases that follow), thanks.
@IsaacMoses If there's some JeLLy motivation in the question....
@IsaacMoses, heh, I was just doing that. :-)
@msh210 Added "I'd like to understand the rules for how to pronounce this form in general so that I can pronounce the words correctly when studying the Bible in Hebrew."
5:31 PM
34 secs ago, by msh210
@IsaacMoses, heh, I was just doing that. :-)
@msh210 Thanks. In general, in cases like this where the JeLLy motivation is IMO implicit or suggested but not explicit enough, I'd much prefer that people just go ahead and add it in rather than closing.
@IsaacMoses Sure, makes sense.
6:31 PM
^^ articulates one rabbi's idea of a qualitative line between "liberal" Judaism and his own standard of Judaism
7:32 PM
@msh210 Is there some way to set up a private chat with you?
@Fred It doesn't look like he's here right now. I believe that mods can set up private rooms that are only available to other mods and explicit invitees, and that they're supposed to use this ability sparingly.
@Fred Any of the mods can set up a private chat with all of them and any number of users. Just ping us in chat or send us a flag.
@DoubleAA Ok, it's related to an account issue. I guess you could invite me to a chat and we could discuss it now.
@DoubleAA tny.cz/8cc94614 ps:weed
tny.cz/2426c987 this link works
8:32 PM
Hey, thanks everyone who voted me up on stack exchange so I can talk here. :)
@Shmuli Hey!
Yeah, getting question upvotes on SO can be tough, unless it's a particularly broad and perplexing question (and most of those are taken already)
Much easier on Mi Yodeya!
Are we all pretty much programmers in these circles?
Q: How many regular users here work in IT?

Charles KoppelmanEvery day, I realize that more and more people here know a lot more about tech than I'd expect a random set of Jews to know. It makes sense, but of the regular users, what percent work in or have worked in IT?

@Shmuli Quite a few of the regular Yodeyans are, but not all.
im a jew
8:38 PM
@Double AA: Eh, interesting discussion there...
@Shmuli best I can offer :)
@DoubleAA did you see that link i sent you?
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob What are the manuscripts of?
@DoubleAA manuscripts from rabbeinu avrohom ban harambam's time regarding birkayim al apayim
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Written by whom?
8:45 PM
@DoubleAA one is the manuscript of the mithnagdim to the muslim court trying to stop rabbeinu avrohom
@DoubleAA other manuscript is of 3 ashkenazi rabbonim living in arasS yisroel who were the hHasidim of rabbeinu avrohom and they practiced birkayim al apayim
@DoubleAA the other one i think is from the hHasidim of rabbeinu avrohom in alexandria asking what to do because they are being persecuted by the mithnagdim
written to rabbeinu avrohom which lived in fustat
Hi @Shmuli and welcome! We've got a mix, as you can see from that question -- Stack Exchange in general attracts a fair number of techies, given its origins, but we've got others too.
1 hour later…
9:57 PM
@msh210 It's only odd from the text's perspective, not the interpreter's. Take this story: A: Help I'm bleeding! Call an ambulance please! B: Meh. What will you give me? A: What?? Anything! I'm dying! B: Ok, wire all your money to this account in the Cayman Islands. Here you can use my smartphone. A: Uh...fine. Can I use your laptop instead so you can use your phone to CALL AN AMBULANCE BECAUSE I"M BLEEDING!? B: Fine, you have a deal. Narrator: Thus we see that A is bad for spurning his money. When you read it, who do you intuitively fault more and which line in the story is most unexpected? — Double AA 4 mins ago
@DoubleAA +1 entertaining
@IsaacMoses Let's see what our Writers mod thinks.
@DoubleAA Whoa. Three of the four mods there have accounts here, two have been both active and meta-active here, and one is a mod here.
@MonicaCellio, <strike>is Writers the object of a Zionist plot?</strike>
@IsaacMoses SHHHH!!!!!
Your not supposed to talk about the TL in regular rooms
@IsaacMoses laugh You'd have to ask the community team; they appoint the pro-tem mods. Aarthi was the one who picked me, so that's a little harder to find out quickly. :-(
@DoubleAA Sorry; fixed
10:06 PM
@IsaacMoses I knew Neil had been here and that Standback is Israeli so it it's not too surprising he (?) has been here too.
@MonicaCellio I only thought to check when I saw "Israel" on his user card. He's "Ziv" here, so he's probably a he.
@IsaacMoses fun story @DoubleAA!
@IsaacMoses yup, just got there in another tab. "He" it is, then.
@MonicaCellio, How's Writers doing?
Wow, Neil's even been here enough to have voted in our elections.
@MonicaCellio He's done meta-work for us, too.
10:11 PM
@IsaacMoses it's a small beta that, like other subjective sites, gets a mix of question quality -- some really excellent ones and some that are too localized. We can often reshape the latter. I've been trying to drag more tech writers in since that's a weak area right now, but so far not much luck. I need to ask more questions myself. :-)
Writers is a very friendly and non-controversial community. Good people.
@IsaacMoses nice! Ok, I need to encourage him to spend more time here. :-)
Got to drop off now. TZT all!
@MonicaCellio You, too.
@MonicaCellio ... and tell him to bring his wife back too!
@MonicaCellio Good to hear. I see that its visits/day exceeds ours (of course, that's not too hard), it's getting an average of more than one question/day (not bad for a beta), and it's got 98% answered (not bad, by any standard), so the stats look healthy. I have to remember to keep it in mind in case a writing question comes to my mind.

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