English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

F'x

20:15

I'm ever so bad at economics 101: how do you fight inflation? should we print more paper money (sorry, "questions") or fix prices (read "rep")?

RegDwight

Well, there is a price ceiling.

This is precisely what the rep cap is for.

2 days ago, by RegDwight

@JSBangs This is actually a good example of how the rep cap is not just there to "protect" newbies. It's there to protect regulars who have been onboard since the early days of the beta.

2 days ago, by RegDwight

I mean, back in the day, an excellent answer would get you what, five upvotes? Nowadays, anyone can drop by and get 20+ upvotes just because the site has grown so much.

Without the rep cap, the unstoppable tide of newbies would "overtake" this site in no time.

So, everybody gets a chance to get ahead of Robusto, because he can only get some 300 points a day, but at the same time, Robusto won't just get his ass kicked by someone who happens to post three answers with 1000 upvotes each.

Robusto

Calling all @Kosmonaut ...

15

Q: Central Pennsylvanian English speakers: what are the limitations on the "needs washed" construction?

In the Central Pennsylvania dialect of English (and possibly elsewhere), the following construction is possible: This car needs washed. (=needs to be washed) The room needs cleaned. (=needs to be cleaned) It appears that, if a verb like needs is followed by a passive construction in...

Dupe of Man Tookus's question of Nov 22.

Wait, I mean ...

0

Q: using -ed vs. -ing

I'm from Central Pennsylvania, and apparently, we have a strange language construct in this area. I was recently talking about how "my car needs washed" to a friend from NJ, and she told me that my sentence was grammatically incorrect. I realize she's right. And I realize my options are "my car...

dialects past-participle

F'x

in fact, it's such a clear, exact, duplicate (though shorter) that it's very suspicious

RegDwight

Going by the title, I would have never thought it could be a dupe of that question.

Robusto

Very misleading.

Talk a dog off a meat truck, huh?

I heard a better one than that.

RegDwight

20:26

Misleading, but not on purpose. That's doubly misleading.

Robusto

"His breath was so foul it could knock a buzzard off a manure truck."

RegDwight

@Robusto Through a cornhole?

Robusto

Yep. Me grandaddy was full of country witticisms.

"He was so dumb he couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel."

RegDwight

Haha.

Robusto

And my mom's personal most-hated one: "Ah'm hungry enough to eat the ass-end out of a skunk."

RegDwight

20:28

36 secs ago, by RegDwight

Haha.

I mean, eww. Gross. Haha.

Robusto

Stop being such a girl. That's what real men talk like.

RegDwight

You mean like Kevin Bacon?

Robusto

Bacon is a fruit, right?

RegDwight

No, that would be tuna.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tuna

Robusto

20:41

I have reached a milestone in my project! It all works!

Cue the Optimistic Voices from the Wizard of Oz!

Alain Pannetier

Good evening everyone.

Robusto

►

I'm feeling so good I think we can hear that one again:

2 mins ago, by Robusto

►

Martha

That's nice. However, I think y'all screwed up by closing this as a dupe:

0

Q: using -ed vs. -ing

Possible Duplicate: Central Pennsylvanian English speakers: what are the limitations on the “needs washed” construction? I'm from Central Pennsylvania, and apparently, we have a strange language construct in this area. I was recently talking about how "my car needs washed" ...

dialects past-participle

Robusto

@Martha — Uh-oh, it's Mrs. Buzzkill.

Stop harshing my mellow, lady.

Martha

Pbbbblll.

Robusto

20:47

See? I rendered her speechless.

Martha

That wasn't speechless, that was a raspberry.

Robusto

Whatever it was, it ain't speech.

Feel good for me, @Martha. I don't have to work this weekend.

I'm gathering my things and ... going ... home ...

Happy weekend to all, and to all a GOOD NIGHT.

Martha

It's not night yet.

RegDwight

@Martha If it's reworded with the "I now know this is wrong" part removed, it can be reopened.

As it stands, the premise is flawed.

And that is explained in that other question.

Martha

Yeah, but how does that make it a duplicate?

RegDwight

20:52

Yeah well, you have a point.

Martha

The old question is "what can I substitute for 'washed' in 'needs washed'?" The new question is "what's the difference between 'needs to be washed' and 'needs washing'?"

RegDwight

Whatever, it's open again.

But now you must post an answer.

As someone from PA.

An all-encompassing one.

Including an explanation how his premise is flawed.

I'll be having some cake in the mean time.

Martha

Is it? I mean, what exactly is his premise?

RegDwight

> I realize she's right [that my sentence was grammatically incorrect]. And I realize my options are "my car needs TO BE washed" or "my car needs washING".

She is wrong.

He has a much better option.

Martha

@RegDwight Not for NJ she isn't.

RegDwight

20:55

Put that in your answer.

She is right as much as she is wrong.

He has all the right in the world to speak his local dialect.

This isn't Sudan, this is NJ.

It's a free country.

Billare

Good job Martha!

I was just coming here to post what you said.

That's why I put "related" in my comment, @RegDwight.

RegDwight

@Billare Yes, apologies.

You can re-post it or wait for Martha to include it in her answer.

Billare

Is she in fact writing one?

RegDwight

She better be.

Billare

60

Motor Vehicle Maintenance and Repair – mechanics.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for mechanics and DIY enthusiast owners of cars, trucks, and motorcycles

Currently in public beta.

how did Motor vechicles get started in the first place

it's as dead as a doornail

RegDwight

21:07

Listen to the podcast.

Billare

Worst stats I've ever seen on the network.

RegDwight

Jeff and Joel had very interesting things to say.

Billare

I didn't listen to it completely...I think they analogize to DIY

And say that mechanics might not go an attend MVMR because they don't directly work on the computer

Still don't know why that explains how the proposal, which required 200 committers, has only 40 ppl over 200+ rep

RegDwight

Actually, they kinda explained that.

Everyone specializes in a brand.

So if most questions are about Ford, and you're all into Subaru, you won't get over 200 any time soon.

Billare

Huh...

RegDwight

21:12

Plus, it could be more deserted because those people aren't logged in 24/7.

Unlike, say, programmers.

> Over on mechanics.stackexchange.com, Jeff wonders why online car communities are so brand-centric — there are hundreds of dedicated sites for Ford enthusiasts, and Subaru enthusiasts, and so forth. Whereas programmers can have Java and Python installed side by side on the same PC, you have to own a lot of physical, real world vehicles to have experience with many different car brands — or, be an auto mechanic.

> Stack Exchange sites do well in professions where you can open a relevant Stack Exchange site in a window side-by-side with the work you’re already doing on the computer. But what about people who don’t regularly work on computers? Is it realistic to expect people who tend to work offline to take the time and effort to come online after they finish working and keep discussing their work?

And anyhow, there's still the general rule that not every site will succeed.

We're in the top 10 or even top 3 by many metrics, but not everyone can be so lucky.

There'll always be the long tail.

Alain Pannetier

@RegDwight, there's a real sense of quality here. And to some degree kindness. Some other forums are more... say, geekish.

And there's a greater sense of humour here too.

RegDwight

Yeah, but the thing is, geekish doesn't automatically mean unpopular.

It's not completely orthogonal, but not the only defining factor, either.

Alain Pannetier

I can see in the upper right corner of that very window 57 users in 28 rooms and I can count 9 gravatars.

RegDwight

I'm sure Mechanics is as geeky as it gets, in its own sense.

@AlainPannetier Well, I am usually in several rooms at once.)))

Alain Pannetier

Actually I've never connected to that forum. Didn't even know about it before @Billare mentioned it.

@Dori beats you for this.

RegDwight

21:24

Well, that's her job.

To beat me.

Dori

@RegDwight Damn, I knew I was letting something slip…

The beatings shall now commence!

RegDwight

@Dori I get enough beating from Jin, thank you.

0

Q: All mods are equal, but some mods are more equal than others

/about: Dear Jin, this is funny and all, but... but... BUT! (Opera, Chrome, Firefox; Vista.)

bug design

Dori

Oddly, it's correct on meta

RegDwight

I'm pretty sure it used to be correct on the main site, too.

Alain Pannetier

@Dori, I can see you in so many rooms, that I'm sometimes tempted to send you a captcha.

Dori

21:30

@AlainPannetier You should take a look sometime at how many @Rebecca is in

MrHen

@RegDwight Haha, awesome. I knew I was following the wrong role model.

Martha

@RegDwight That's friggin' hilarious. :D

RegDwight

@Martha Thank you for the answer to the PA question.

Much appreciated.

Alain Pannetier

I can see this is a serious contest. I already find it hard enough to follow the things happening here. Today I had to look up "harshing my mellow" and a few more... and even "tookus" was a new word for me. EL&U is a kind of crash course for me...

MrHen

In other news, I am now completely comfortable handcrafting markdown links, images and references.

Stupid Javascript.

2

Martha

21:34

@MrHen Hear, hear.

Alain Pannetier

Anyway, I have to go. Jr is asking for his evening story. Night all.

MrHen

Also, for anyone really not paying attention, Mother's Day is this Sunday.

Martha

Oh, wait, you probably didn't mean the effing jquery checkbox tree I'm fighting with at work.

MrHen

@Martha Fortunately, I have completely avoided all use of jQuery professionally.

Although I still have to explain that Java is not related to JavaScript. :P

Martha

@MrHen My boss almost always says "Java" when he means "JavaScript". The problem is, sometimes when he says "Java" he actually means "Java". It's very annoying.

Dori

21:36

@RegDwight I've posted an answer to your question that might make things a tad faster for Jin to fix.

@MrHen Hey, I made a good living doing that from '97 to now

RegDwight

Thanks!

MrHen

@Dori Hm. To each their own. I prefer not explaining the same things over and over to the same people

RegDwight

@Martha Just tell him to stop meaning Java. Ever.

Dori

@MrHen Write it once. Sell it to each of those people. Profit!

MrHen

It is admittedly funny when they throw Java Beans into the mix.

@Dori No, see, it is the same people.

Specifically person, actually.

Dori

21:40

@MrHen Me, I would make them buy a copy of the book every time they blow it (but I understand that not everyone has that option)

MrHen

@RegDwight I am assuming that you don't mind me flagging those older questions like I have been

let me know if it bugs you :)

@Dori Yeah, well, technically they are paying me to explain it to them over and over... so that sort of counts ;)

RegDwight

@MrHen Well, just keep an eye on your flag weight.)))

Martha

@RegDwight Actually, I'd kind of prefer him to always mean "Java". Because he'd need to write that himself. But if it's JavaScript, then I need to write it. And I hates it, I really does.

RegDwight

MrHen will be a Deputy soon.

Dori

@MrHen Nah, I'd get bored silly if I had to keep saying it. At some point I would just make flashcards and start holding them up.

MrHen

21:41

@RegDwight Well... sure. But I'd rather preemptively not bug you than suddenly realize I was doing it wrong. :)

Dori

@Martha JavaScript has been very very good to me.

RegDwight

@MrHen Well, you're not bugging me, there are like 12 mods on this site.

MrHen

I try to space them out at least and only flag them when I inadvertently encounter them.

@RegDwight Yeah, but the lowly one always gets the work. I know how it is.

RegDwight

Haha.

Martha

@Dori My brain just doesn't work that way. I like a nice understandable linear progression.

MrHen

21:43

For the record, I have nothing against JavaScript. I just don't need^H^H^H^Huse it for anything I do.

Martha

@Dori, actually, the one JavaScript book we have here at work is the 1999 edition of your "JavaScript for the World Wide Web, 3rd Edition". :)

Dori

@Martha Things have changed a tad since the 3rd edition. ;-) Consider buying the eighth (available some time after I finish writing it, sadly).

Martha

Yeah, well, I don't actually use the book much. I find stuff online and muddle through.

Dori

You, and everyone else! davidflanagan.com/2011/04/javascript-the-1.html

(I have a comment there down towards the end)

Martha

Oh, I don't mean pirating - I mean I find free JQuery code or the like and try to adapt it to my purposes, mostly by trial and error. Well, mostly error.

RegDwight

21:49

@Dori That's some serious pitch.

Dori

@Martha No, no, that was just his take—I was mostly referring to the way he says that book sales have tumbled, and one of the main reasons his commenters gave for not buying books is Stack Overflow.

MrHen

22:01

Here's an answer that ended up being the opposite of what I expected:

0

A: What is the origin of the phrase "you've got another thing coming"?

Well, the phrase was older than I expected. NGrams reports the following matches for the phrases "got another thing coming" and "have another thing coming": Here is snap from 1906 (I think. I am still learning how Google Books works.): As for your other question, "you've got another think c...

Martha

Heh. So "another thing coming" is the hypercorrected version of "another think coming"?

RegDwight

@MrHen I liked this part most:

Martha

22:30

@RegDwight Odd how the 'image not available' image is so huge - the actual image you're not seeing is something like 400x50 px.

RegDwight

@Martha Yeah, I kept wondering whether it was a whole page from a book or something...

Oh, and the edit doesn't help, @Martha.

Martha

Well, shucks.

More drastic measures are forthcoming.

RegDwight

Ah.

I just commented.

You're ahead of me.

Martha

There, that ought to sidestep all image-access issues.

RegDwight

Checking...

Very elegant!

Martha

22:40

If that worked, you might want to delete all our now-pointless comments.

RegDwight

I know.)))

Martha

As opposed to all our comments that are pointless from the get-go. :D

RegDwight

I have killed like ten now-pointless exchanges four days ago or so, by googling for "thanks. fixed".

MrHen

22:55

@RegDwight Stop breaking my answers!

;)

RegDwight

I'm only screenshotting your answers. (Screenshooting? Screensheeting? Screenshitting?)

Mr. Disappointment

23:12

Howdy, guys.

RegDwight

Helloez.

Mr. Disappointment

Oh noes, we've reduced us l33tness speakness?

I figured that's not your usual greeting, Reg, but sorry to offend you if so.

Martha

It's Friday night, and way past @RegDwight's bedtime.

RegDwight

/kick all offenders

@Martha Yeah, I'm having a fun time looking at all the various manifestations of that bug.

Diago rules them all.

Martha

Aw, you mean it doesn't just affect you? Meh. Now it's not so funny anymore.

RegDwight

23:20

Aaaand it's been fixed.

In the next build, that is.

@Martha Yeah well, this is via another room where people started checking their sites.

Me, I only care about ELU.

And unicorns.

Martha

It still would've better as a conspiracy specifically directed at you.

RegDwight

Yes, and I am quite offended that it isn't.

Martha

Once the fix goes through, I think you need to post an Eeeek! question somewhere.

RegDwight

Haha.

(One E is missing, BTW.)

Martha

Right, sorry. (Editing.)

RegDwight

23:25

I'm sure Diago will complain.

Mr. Disappointment

I know the number of e's dictates the severity, but isn't an exclamation always required?

Martha

Again, you're right, sorry. Sheesh. You'd think as the meme originator I'd do better than that.

Mr. Disappointment

@Martha Good job. ;)

Martha

I blame this stupid project at work.

And my boss.

Everything's his fault.

RegDwight

And Java. Never forget to blame Java.

Martha

23:27

Java*Script*, you mean.

RegDwight

No, I'm not your boss, so when I say Java I mean Java.

Mr. Disappointment

Whoever chooses to use Java is to blame.

Martha

Sigh. I mean you ought to say, and thus mean, JavaScript. Java I have no problem with, because I just tell the boss, "Sorry, I don't know the first thing about writing Java, you'll have to do that project."

RegDwight

@Martha I know that. You're repeating yourself.

My point is that you should always blame Java.

That's why I said that you should always blame Java.

Whether you have a problem with it is completely orthogonal to my request.

Martha

Harumph.

RegDwight

23:31

(You know, I do read your stuff.)

((Now just read mine.))

Martha

But I don't wanna blame Java. I wanna blame JavaScript.

RegDwight

Feb 10 at 16:01, by RegDwight

Even @RegDwight doesn't read all of @RegDwight's crap!

@Martha And that you can!

Martha

And my boss. Gotta blame my boss.

RegDwight

That's his job. To be blamed.

Martha

Someone needs to tell him of this. [snip]

Mr. Disappointment

23:34

The jQuery 'all' selector could do with its share, too.

RegDwight

@Martha You know the transcript is public, right?

Martha

Yeah, yeah, I'm debating.

RegDwight

Now only the mods can see it.)))

So unless he plans to run for mod on, say, Parenting and Farming Organically, you're safe.

Martha

@RegDwight Not bloody likely. Although he does have one of my (work-related) questions on SO bookmarked.

RegDwight

Uh-oh.

The plot thickens.

Martha

23:37

Not really. I practically had to hold his hand to get him to find that question.

RegDwight

Zis is a maus. Click hier.

Martha

Anyway, speaking of work, I need to get this stupid project into semi-working (or at least appears-to-be-working) shape tonight, so I'd better go.

kiamlaluno

"What is this? It's a table. What is this? It's a pen. What is this? It's a mouse."

RegDwight

CU Martha.

I think I'll go check what's on TV.

Mr. Disappointment

Bye, Martha.

@RegDwight Argh, man, TV; sometimes I just regret it.

I caught a Kent Hovind show - I could and might hit up Skeptics for some free rep.

RegDwight

23:42

Mar 2 at 13:33, by RegDwight

Though I must say, I used to not own a TV set for like three years in a row, back in 1998 or something. And I didn't miss it at all after a while. And it's only after I got married that I got a PC + some Internets at home.

Mr. Disappointment

...intriguing. I could live without it, to be fair. Only very rarely watch it.

RegDwight

@Cerberus still doesn't have TV.

Mr. Disappointment

Probably for the best.

RegDwight

Yeah, they only speak Dutch on TV where he lives.

Dutch!

Proper German or no German at all. Vrow Antje, leave the hall!

If they spoke Latin and Ancient Greek on TV, Cerberus would own like five TV sets.

Mr. Disappointment

For me the proper German would only be Double Dutch anyway.

RegDwight

23:47

Apr 14 at 12:38, by RegDwight

Mr. Disappointment

Does anybody actually speak those languages anywhere? Let alone on TV..

That's a novel image, thanks for that.

RegDwight

The buck stops with the Mars language.

Apparently.

Mr. Disappointment

Maybe we need a MLU proposal?

RegDwight

Yes, but let us not spread too thin.

10 hours ago, by Kosmonaut

I am going to have to create Frisian Language and Usage.

First things first.

Mr. Disappointment

Hah.

kiamlaluno

23:54

The diagram is not complete; we say è cinese and è marziano too.

RegDwight

You didn't mention that the last time I posted it!

Mr. Disappointment

Oh shit, I fracked the company home page. Better fix it..

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight I don't say all secrets the first time.

RegDwight

Yes, you mafiosi are like that!

kiamlaluno

For example, I didn't tell you my second name is Vincenzo.

RegDwight

23:57

And your family name is di Gogho?

kiamlaluno

Vincenzo like, you know, Don Vincenzo.

RegDwight

Don L to the X here.

kiamlaluno

Last time I checked, my last name was Paderno.

RegDwight

Then you're not a famous painter.

kiamlaluno

Also that is said to be a southern Italian last name.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…