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7:00 PM
It's just like 2000 > XP
Everything was still there, it just got moved
By the way, if you are intrigued by recent chatter about King of Dragon Pass by the likes of @Wipqozn and I, the game is on sale on iOS for this week to celebrate their 30,000th sale.
@OrigamiRobot Yeah, but I never had to administer anything pre-XP. I'm sure once I learn it it won't be a big deal, but adjusting to it is needlessly painful.
@StrixVaria Yep
Also it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to switch tabs using the mouse in the new IE App thing.
Or to even get to the address bar to type a new URL.
I was trying to figure out the "intuitive" way to do things and was failing.
I could only navigate using memorized keyboard shortcuts.
Typically everything can be reached simply with Windows <name of the program> enter
If that fails, Windows <name of the program> down (to select Settings instead of Programs) Enter
7:03 PM
@badp So you can start typing right at the metro screen?
Yeah, just like in Windows 7
I'm just going to skip Windows 8
You don't have to mouse to the corner, then click the magnifying glass, then type?
@badp This is turning out to be the most difficult thing I've had to teach people about Windows.
@StrixVaria You can do that but you can also just type
There's also a key combination to search the settings directly, but I can't remember it now
7:04 PM
@Coronus That's how I've been accessing my programs pretty much since I started using Win7
@badp Saying this is kind of annoying because the UI is utterly different than in Windows 7. In W7 when you click 'start' or press the Windows key, it at least puts your cursor in a text box. There is no text box on the metro screen to make you think typing is a thing you can do.
you can do that?
@StrixVaria That is a fair criticism, but it is mechanically equivalent
I seem to be unable to type on the desktop in 7
@Sconibulus not on the desktop, at the start screen
7:05 PM
oh, ok
although when I login I hit desktop...
The biggest fair criticism against Windows 8 is one of discoverability
start menu? You can type in that
@Sconibulus Press the windows key, then start typing
I didn't hate Windows 8. I could get used to it. It was just frustrating to try to do stuff that would have taken me no time at all in W7.
The Start screen is the exception, rather than the rule, for being able to search just by typing directly. A few metro apps do that, most don't.
@StrixVaria I'm just trying to help you along given that likely Windows 9 is going to be Windows 8 polished - but still mostly Windows 8
7:08 PM
@badp Oh yeah I appreciate it for sure. Knowing I can type straight on the start screen will be huge.
just like people looking for Windows XP + 1 are still stuck with Windows XP, people looking for Windows 7 + 1 are probably going to be stuck with Windows 7.
well, Windows 7 is almost XP + 1 : () )
I hope W9 has everything more integrated into the metro UI instead of having half the settings there and the other half on the old control panel.
Win7 is WinXP + 2
@Sconibulus tell that to the people using Windows XP still today
7:09 PM
I did say almost...
@badp My fiancee's parents upgraded from XP straight to 8.
@badp I find Win XP pairs nicely with IE 6!
Hell, remember when Windows XP had just came out and people whined that it was ugly and unprofessional and slow and bloated? They were looking for Windows 98 + 1. XP wasn't that.
Whereas Vista was WinME + 0.5
@OrigamiRobot but 7 is Vista + 1.
7:10 PM
Windows 3.1, baby
16 bit is all you need
@badp No, not at all. Win7 is Vista + Infinity
@OrigamiRobot It's the sequel to Vista just like Windows 98 is the sequel to Windows 95
it's all about OS/2
I'm not talking about release order. I'm talking quality.
Windows 98 never got a sequel (we don't talk about ME here). Windows XP neither did. Windows 7 is also likely to fall to this fate.
7:11 PM
@Sterno I just use an abacus.
@OrigamiRobot I'm not talking about quality or release order either, I'm talking about "incremental steps that involve little or no relearning of the system"
@badp Then 2000 didn't get a sequel either
XP retconned 2000 as another sequel to NT
@OrigamiRobot I don't know if it isn't fair to call XP the sequel to 2000
@OrigamiRobot Fail. Doesn't have Minesweeper.
@badp Not by your definition
7:13 PM
XP came from the NT branch of Windows, not from the "customer windows" code
@Sterno I just tape firecrackers to it
@OrigamiRobot then I'm okay with considering 2000 another dead end
A sad one :(
Bridge, make me not sick.
@Fluttershy You are in the wrong place.
7:15 PM
@Fluttershy me too, while you're at it
@Sterno The Bridge smells better than a doctor's office, if only slightly.
@BenBrocka We can be sick buddies!
@Fluttershy I'm not that sick, fortunately
I gave up and decided maybe my stomach was more hungry than achey (that's never actually the case)
@BenBrocka Same. I'm not in any serious danger of needing to go to the doctor. I just have an awful cold.
How can the Bridge help you with your sickness?
7:16 PM
@jeffreylin_ Black magic.
@Fluttershy Doctor's offices usually smell pretty sterile.
@badp Get to sacrificing some goats so I feel better.
@badp DOS --> 3.1
@Fluttershy Did you mean... cows?
Way better than the hobo's bathroom which is The Bridge.
7:17 PM
@Fluttershy I just have a...don't relaly know. Just upset stomach and sore/tired as hell
@badp Whatever works.
@jeffreylin_ Nope, there's a rather fundamental break between DOS (single tasked) and 3.1 (cooperatively tasked), just as large as the one between 3.1 and 95 (preemptively multitasked)
ME is the dead end of the "customer branch" of Windows
People that want an operative system as lean and mean as XP (and able to run DOS stuff natively) have no alternatives
and 8 broke in several ways the expectations of everything before it
3.0 --> 3.1 3.0 actually had a GUI. :O
Microsoft Windows is a series of graphical interface operating systems developed, marketed, and sold by Microsoft. Microsoft introduced an operating environment named Windows on November 20, 1985 as an add-on to MS-DOS in response to the growing interest in graphical user interfaces (GUIs). Microsoft Windows came to dominate the world's personal computer market with over 90% market share, overtaking Mac OS, which had been introduced in 1984. The most recent client version of Windows is Windows 8; the most recent mobile client version is Windows Phone 8; the most recent server version...
@jeffreylin_ Perhaps! Although 3.1 had networking and 3.0 didn't and that's pretty huge. I was only 5 or so when my father still had a laptop running 3.1 (with a trackpad!), though, so I know very little about those days
7:20 PM
@OrigamiRobot Let me know so I can answer it
@badp Personally, I'd have XP coming straight from NT and laughing at 2000 on the way by.
@fredley I did and deleted it immediately because @jeffreylin_ already asked it on the 13th
Windows 8 just about sucks as much as the mobile version of this site.
wut did I ask?
@OrigamiRobot Honestly my experience with the NT side of things is similarly limited. The only thing I know about Windows NT 4 is that it amazed me how the computer claimed it was saving your unsaved data on shutdown.
Q: How can I convert between EU, MJ, and Blutricity?

jeffreylin_I have RedPower, BuildCraft and Thermal Expansion, and IndustrialCraft. Unfortunately, these all use different forms of energy. Is there a way to convert between the three forms of energy?

@badp All I know is that I had a world of trouble moving from 2000 to XP
7:22 PM
In retrospect, my amazement was likely to be fully justified. Whatever happened while NT 4 displayed that dialogue screen, "saving unsaved data" probably isn't it.
I wish I could couch today :(
Saving the unsaved....burning the heretics...shutting down
GODDAMNIT PEOPLE STOP WITH THE CHATTING! My iPad freezes when you guys do this.
@OrigamiRobot :(
@jeffreylin_ can we ping you mercilessly?
we're good at that.
7:23 PM
Oh god this is so sad. There is no screenshot on the web of the "writing unsaved data to disk" dialogue.
@jeffreylin_ What?
@jeffreylin_ Why does it do that?
wait was win 2k not the same thing as win ME?
@BenBrocka 2k was NT5, ME was a bastard child of 98SE
7:24 PM
If we don't chat how will you know if chat is frozen?
@BenBrocka 2k was on the corporate branch of Windows afaik
back when Windows and Windows were two different things with different APIs
@fredley cuz the mobile version sucks and I need to resort to using the full site on a device not supposed to have the full site
then they scrapped the "consumer" edition altogether past 2k. 2k->XP->Vista->7->8 were all the same codebase, iirc.
just different sets of features enabled, essentially.
@badp before they started just having "professional"/etc versions?
@BenBrocka yeah
7:25 PM
didn't know they weredifferent codebases, seems...dumb
NT 4 and 95/98 were completely different
For one thing, NT 4 had unicode support, 95/98 didn't
Windows 8: informing all users that windows is shutting down....
For another thing, 95/98 had Direct* stuff, NT 4 hadn't
man, windows 95. back when it was considered no big deal to reformat every 6mos to a year
2k was such a nice break from all of that.
Windows 8: informing Windows that windows is shutting down.... WTF.!?
7:27 PM
@agent86 You mean that stopped being a thing?
@jeffreylin_ ?
and dem manual defragments
@badp well, you're fail, so probably not for you. have you considered being less fail? that does exist, you know.
Thats what it says when it shuts down
@agent86 I am fail for failing to reformat regularly since I've ever owned a computer
@jeffreylin_ It says "Shutting down..." for me, like it did in Windows 7
I don't think I've reformatted aside from major HW changes in the last 5 or so years.
win95 it was like, you look at it wrong and you have to reformat.
7:28 PM
@agent86 ??? not my experience
I could recite the autoexec.bat/config.sys for installing windows 9x from a CDROM back once upon a time
@jeffreylin_ uh... nowhere as colorful as the one in Windows 95/98 man
@jeffreylin_ This
It showed you every cluster. EVERY SINGLE CLUSTER ON YOUR DISK
7:29 PM
I miss the old graphical defragmenters :(
norton utilities FTFW
@badp I had a third party one which was like that. I would run it just to see it go
you had that on a bootable floppy and you were golden
Maintaining that display was so slow, hiding the details sped up defragmenting by 50% or so
not like this bloated symantec spyware crap you kids have nowadays. GET OFF MY NICELY DEFRAGMENTED & SURFACE TESTED LAWN
7:30 PM
and the clusters would all be different colors and shades
Me: get a virus --> format --> get a virus --> "fuck this" --> gets MSDOS 7.22
I am such an answer whore
@BenBrocka defragger.info
Not only it'd show the status of every single cluster on the disk, it'd wait until the graphical representation of every single cluster being moved on the disk was complete
@badp like this?
@fredley you take questions out back and will answer any one of them for a few reps?
7:32 PM
@agent86 I'll answer anything tagged . Anything.
@fredley you're positively filthy.
@jeffreylin_ ?
I feel like that's a question he would ask.
@fredley How is MJ distributed?
7:33 PM
@jeffreylin_ yeah
defragger.info lacks the whole bottom part of the window
@fredley Was that necessary?
I'll be damned if I remember the difference between white and slashed and white with black/red dot
@jeffreylin_ No...
I'm ready for some Bioshock Infinite.
7:34 PM
Double ...
Q: What is a strategy to earn the Elite AI Romp achievement?

ahsteeleWinning 100 matches to earn the Elite AI Romp seems like a difficult achievement to earn: not only because of the time involved, but because of the skill of Elite AI opponents. What is a strategy to earn the Elite AI Romp achievement?

Q: Will the quarry itself keep its chunk loaded?

fredleyI've ended up with the boundary of my quarry such that the corner Land Mark is at point (0,0), i.e. not in the same chunk as the quarry machine. Will the quarry's chunk remain loaded?

@badp is the slash a broken sector or something? Don't remember seeing that
I love Texas Instrument scientific calculators. You could do some fun stuff with them.
Look @flagger, you summoned @AshleyNunn!
@BenBrocka White black and red is "in use" afaik
> This version had the limitation that if the contents of the drive changed during defragmentation, it rescanned the drive and restarted the process from where it left off.
Oh god I remember that
Defragmentation in progres... 98%
7:35 PM
Is crazy stuff getting flagged again?
@badp oh christ
Disk contents have changed!
I like to download my terabytes while defragging.
I must have a sixth sense because I can't actually see flags on mobile
@BenBrocka Restarting entailed pretty much reading every byte of the disk again; the changes in disk contents were unlikely to trigger further defrags
7:36 PM
@OrigamiRobot Good work, @flagger!
It was a single-step defragger
@badp Oh geez
Shits... When I installed MSDOS I thought it would install in drive D: ..... Not wipe my freaking C drive!
@jeffreylin_ ...you just installed MSDOS?
Well at least it's fast
Simply type in the programs you need with edit.com
(Truly the single biggest weakness of Windows 8 is the lack of edit.com)
I didn't take "THIS WILL WIPE YOUR FUCKING C DRIVE" literally
7:40 PM
It has edit.exe
Who keeps staring random things?
'edit.exe' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

'edit.com' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
How about edit?
Notepad :P
7:41 PM
It's less blue.
@jeffreylin_ Well, color displays were only required for Windows 95 onwards right? I forget.
I meant to star that
Cuse you fat fingers!
Land like an idiot I hit yes
7:44 PM
btw @agent86 I remember trying to install my copy of Windows 95 on a virtual machine. I had to plug in an USB floppy disk reader for that
I was foolish enough to not keep the screenshots, or the virtual machine T_T
...actually I might be able to rescue them from my old disk-broken laptop... but the chances are slim.
...except I have no way to power it
`1999 Mode – Upon finishing BioShock Infinite, the player can unlock a game mode called “1999 Mode” that gives experienced players a taste of the kind of design and balance that hardcore gamers enjoyed back in the 20th century.
@badp can't you have a virtual disk or something? or boot from a bootable CD image, maybe?
@agent86 hah! There was no such thing as a bootable CD image back then
7:49 PM
@badp yeah, but in the meantime I think people have made some.
or a BIOS able to boot CD images
for virtual machines, anyway. seems like that's got to be a thing. I don't think I even own floppies anymore. maybe a few...
You needed to store the CDROM reading drivers stuff image onto a floppy disk, then boot of that, then use that to boot from CD ROM.
I think I still have most of my sierra floppies somewhere.
@badp I'm aware :P like i said, I used to be able to recreate the config.sys and autoexec.bat to make this work
Goddammit, I have no way to boot my old rusty keys-missing broken-disk laptop
7:51 PM
I can't for the life of me recall them anymore though. there was one driver that got the drive working, and then another program you had to load to assign the drive letter...
I'm also reminded that I had to wait for the laptop to rust, miss keys and have its hdd broken before I could replace it.
perhaps unsurprisingly, F5, S and - are the keys that didn't make it. S in particular is completely destroyed.
@fbueckert on twitter Star Command released screenshots and said that this "might be the last week of development". Whatever that actually means.
@OrigamiRobot It's complicated.
@fredley That's butt.
@fredley So the only reliable plan as far as energy output vs demand is "Generate more that the demand accounting for losses."
8:07 PM
Q: How much of a tank can I destroy without losing the liquid?

fredleyI can knock a block out of a railcraft tank, replace it, and the liquid inside will be magically restored. However I just expanded my 5x5 tank to a 7x7 tank by knocking out a corner of it and the liquid did not come back. Under what conditions will the liquid inside a tank be kept? When will the...

Q: How is MJ distributed?

OrigamiRobotLet's say I am generating 50MJ/t and I connect a quarry (max 55MJ/t) and a Pulverizer (max 4MJ/t). Will it send the full 4MJ/t to the Pulverizer and the rest to the quarry? Does it look at the total power demand and provide everything with an equal percentage if its full demand? How will the M...

Q: SimCity activated in Origin

astdiumI bought my copy of SimCity on March 5th via PC download on Origin. When I install the game is automatically activated, right? Or do I have to do anything else? Because in order to claim the EA Free game the game has to be activated. Thanks!

@AshleyNunn If it releases, I'll be surprised.
It's been vaporware for so long, I no longer care.
WTB undelete button
Today I was reminded how wonderfully useful this script was. Yes, I wrote it. That has nothing to do with it! Just wanted to mention it to people who may not have seen it when I linked it way back when.
@Sterno Flagged for spam.
Chat room info = useless
@fbueckert I was just mostly amused at their statement that this week MIGHT be the last week of developement. They can't ever just stick to a statement. They are always so wishywashy
8:11 PM
@AshleyNunn Yeah, right.
They've been polishing that thing for so long, they're afraid to let it go.
@AshleyNunn They're giving up?
I can't even remember whether I backed it or not anymore
@SaintWacko I didn't. I considered it but at the time I didn't have money. Glad I didn't.
No update on the actual kickstarter.
Where they should be keeping us backers up to date.
@fbueckert Oh, you expect them to actually tell the people who gave them money anything :P
I instead back awesome metal dice with a really well-run kickstarter
8:14 PM
@AshleyNunn Yes, I have unrealistic expectations of people I give money to!
@fbueckert Crazy man
Well, lesson learned.
Never backing their projects again.
87 more subscribers to 3k...so close
@fbueckert That strikes me as the best plan
@BenBrocka Subscribers?
8:17 PM
@jeffreylin_ youtubes
@OrigamiRobot Yes
@badp want as screensaver
@fredley I am the saddest robot. :(
I've done some testing, and it seems that 3 alvaries with fast production distilled bees per high pressure boiler should be enough. Further tests are required though, and it's not exactly quick to test this sort of thing...
Is the server down?
8:24 PM
@jeffreylin_ Are you doing biomass?
@StrixVaria Suck eggs! It only needs to be 6 high!
@jeffreylin_ It's been a long time since I gave a shit.
8:25 PM
if I plug in a charger into a laptop
and I don't know if the charger matches but the plug does fit in
and when I plug in the charger I hear a soft, repeated noise
...that's not good right?
I mean, nothing exploded
@badp give it a minute
When I plug in in my charger, i hear a buzzing sound, like something flopping back and forth
I don't think that the normal usage of a laptop power charger involves any kind of "noise".
@Unionhawk ...then it explodes?
Only when I put my ear next to it, though
8:27 PM
It was like a soft rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
sometimes there's a hum
It could've been the sound of repeated electric discharge, too.
I mean, 12V 4.1A doesn't sound otherwordly
but I don't have the correct specs either
@badp Possibly... hard to say just from a textual description.
...the original specs are 16V 3.42A
... ... ... ...yyyyyeeeeaaaaah.
That's... not quite the same.
more Vs less As
what does that do again?
try electricians.stackexchange :P
8:32 PM
dawwwwwwwwwwww, my sister just linked me to asdfmovie. THEY GROW UP SO FAST
What's going on?
@badp Undervoltage is probably not going to kill it.
Overcurrent is probably a problem though
@fredley Have you been playing with my farm?
@badp That's not how power supplies typically work. The amperage is typically the maximum current output.
It can supply less if less is needed.
insert coin
8:34 PM
insert coin
...but the laptop draws more power than the thing can give, right? watts are volts*ampere right?
Employee spam eh? BRB suspending
nick didn't know arqade chat had the hidden game...
@badp If there's not enough voltage, most of the stuff probably isn't even turning on.
@Jin I only learned like three weeks ago, if it's any consolation.
8:36 PM
@Fluttershy you're fired.
I learned from some random Meta thread a while ago
@fbueckert See below
> Not only is text chat quicker and easier with the GamePad's virtual keyboard, but voice chat is supported using the controller's microphone and speakers.
@OrigamiRobot This is possible.
@Jin I was never hired. =(
I would have thought the chat room specifically for it would be a giveaway though
8:36 PM
At any rate, I think the point is the charger is underpowered so if it did work, the charger would get fried after a while.
Which is better than frying the laptop.
@badp If the device is requesting more than the supply can give, it just doesn't get it. It's not usually a problem beyond the device not functioning.
so I'll try again, actually hitting the power button this time
@badp Damage to the supply is probably a concern.
there goes tomorrow's productivity.
8:37 PM
@badp 5 seconds later half of Italy is burning
insert coin
@OrigamiRobot This is a random supply found at home while looking for something compatible
As a general rule when replacing power supplies, match the voltage and get at least the same amount of current. More current is fine.
I bought the current general changer in Netherlands and... I think threw away all the plugs except for the one I needed
I don't know if I did, but I can't find them now
Because V=IR, the same voltage and the same R (the laptop) will draw the same current as long as the supply is capable of at least that amount.
8:41 PM
so far so good however
a fault causes more current to be drawn, or some weird eletronics such as battery chargers which demand as much as possible
causing HOT HOT.
Yea, but a fault is a whole different ballgame.
I wouldn't replace a 12V 3A supply with a 12V 30A supply.
That's just asking for trouble
good ;)
It would work as long as everything stayed happy, but if there was a fault that'd be mean.
But replacing it with something like 12V 3.5A should be no problem.
8:46 PM
insert coin
Not that I want even a 3A fault happening in my lap...
@NickCraver Monster Hunter?
Have it back!
@StrixVaria It could also be room owner abuse.
8:47 PM
@Wipqozn I can't even blame you for that any more :(
@StrixVaria That's what I get for being a douche.
@OrigamiRobot Technically, I starred something else, and now it's not starred any more.
@StrixVaria No, he is an owner again.
@OrigamiRobot His name isn't slanty.
@StrixVaria It is for me.
8:47 PM
@OrigamiRobot No, I'm not. @badp removed my owner powers as punishment for being a big meanie.
@OrigamiRobot Refresh.
@Wipqozn meabie*
@StrixVaria Did he get removed today?
230 points
@OrigamiRobot A few days ago.
yesterday, by Stack Exchange
@Wipqozn I'm gonna blame cache or cookies or w/e.
@Wipqozn OK, that's probably not before I last closed my browser.
8:51 PM
@Wipqozn oh right, when you were being a troll.
@badp should have let me go on another rampage to remove you.
@AshleyNunn Yeah, I'm a pretty awesome guy.
@Wipqozn I would add you back if I were an owner.
@OrigamiRobot so you could remove me?
No, my next rampage would be adding everyone.
8:55 PM
If you elect me room owner, I will make everyone who voted for me also a room owner.
(but only for 3 seconds while you're not in the room)
My favourite thing about ownership is being able to see deleted chat messages.
> You cannot star your own messages
My favorite part of being a room owner is the respect and admiration it garners.
@OrigamiRobot Yeah, I get loads of respect.
It's kind of lame how 4 of our room owners have diamonds anyway, and 2 barely/never come here any more.
We only have 2 distinguished owners.

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