Ask Ubuntu Town Hall Chat

Seth

5:47 PM

If a candidate doesn't answer the questions at some point, will they be removed from the running?

Grace Note

6:02 PM

No.

Manishearth

6:34 PM

I just realised that the THC is 4:30AM, not PM in my timezone

so I won't be around, I guess

The questions I wanted to ask (feel free to steal the ones you like and post during the THC):

> What, in your opinion, is the purpose of closing?

> You disagree with the other mods on the closing/deletion of a post. What would you do about it?

Seth

Good questions :)

Manishearth

> A user calls you out on meta for an action which you feel was legitimate. What do you do?

> A user seems intent on proving that the mod team is an oppressive dictatorship. What do you do? [Not really appropriate for the THC, since a good answer would be waay too long]

@Seth thanks :) some of these are modifications of actual problems I've faced (or seen others face)

mateo_salta

9:31 PM

@Manishearth if something like this happena? -

►

George Edison

9:47 PM

I am here and I haz questions.

Patiently waits for the event to start...

FEichinger

George Edison

:P

FEichinger

Don't star that. Not here. The star list was so clean before.

Now it has been tainted.

George Edison

Fair enough.

Grace Note

I'll be cleaning up the stars just before we start, anyway.

FEichinger

9:51 PM

A wild @GraceNote, ohmahgawd!

Grace Note

Still got an hour to go~ ♪

FEichinger

Ahyup.

Tim Stone

@GraceNote Hopefully chat will stop choking by then. It should really learn to chew its messages before swallowing.

Grace Note

Quite

George Edison

I'm going to be drafting up some questions here, and I've enabled editing for anyone else who may be interested:

Grace Note

9:53 PM

Yeah, we almost had a full house at the Ask Different, stopped because chat wonkiness beat up the last candidate.

George Edison

docs.google.com/document/d/…

FEichinger

SE seems to love invoking Murphy's Law recently ...

Anna Lear

@FEichinger "recently"? :)

FEichinger

10:09 PM

Point taken.

Seth

I might not be here when it happens

could someone make sure my question gets asked?

Grace Note

Sure thing.

I'm always available to ask questions on anyone's behalf for these events.

Seth

Thanks

FEichinger

Could also just add them to GE's document, I think. ;)

Seth

@FEichinger I did :)

Grace Note

10:14 PM

I... really need to add that to the post. It's a regular service I always offer but I always get asked.

Seth

@FEichinger It's the last one.

FEichinger

Huh, go figure ... Now where did I read it ...

Caleb

10:37 PM

@GeorgeEdison Doesn't this kind of ruin the surprise for the candidates?

George Edison

@Caleb I guess so...

I never thought of that.

FEichinger

I think just skipping the main event would be the first idea when it comes to avoiding the surprise.

Caleb

@GeorgeEdison I was mostly being tongue in cheek (I just added something that had come to my mind). Candidates can take as long as they like to fire back an answer anyway. But there is something about the live-fire nature of it that makes it exciting...

Marco Ceppi

I prefer the element of surprise

jrg

10:53 PM

Surprise is good.

Makes for interesting reactions.

George Edison

Looks like I need to make an unexpected trip out. Feel free to ask the questions from our shared document (link is above somewhere).

mateo_salta

Use the bathroom now. 5 min warning.

Flabricorn

Oh joy!

ObsessiveSSOℲ

Hello!

Luis Alvarado

Sorry guys but I won't be able to keep on going for moderator

ObsessiveSSOℲ

10:55 PM

Oh, the perfect day to break one's wrist. I'll be slow with responses today.

jrg

Oh man, why @Luis?

ObsessiveSSOℲ

Also, my internet connection is a bit slow today, but everything should be operational.

Flabricorn

@LuisAlvarado Oh no! Why?

Luis Alvarado

Because of the following problems am having

AHA SURPRISE!!!!!!! Let's see who surprises who!!

Flabricorn

@ObsessiveSSOℲ How'd ya break your wrist?

Grace Note

10:58 PM

By the by if one of the candidates is on a chat name that does not match your name on the candidate list, do let me know when I name all the present candidates for the event.

jrg

Don't pull our legs like that.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

Ice and rowing(winter training on indoor rowers of course, not heading out onto the river in this weather), combined.

@GraceNote Are you presenting me as ObsessiveFOSS, or ObsessiveSSOℲ?

Flabricorn

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Ow, feel better.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

Thanks!

Grace Note

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Seeing as you're the latter on both the ballot and here, I'd have to go with the latter.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

11:00 PM

@GraceNote OK, perfect.

Grace Note

Welcome to the Ask Ubuntu Town Hall Chat

6

Before we begin, I have a big opening text. Please withhold all of your commentary and questions until after I clear through it all.

Marco Ceppi

My first question to all candidates. ARE YOU READY?

Grace Note

We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.

A few notes about the format:

The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.

Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)

It's a good idea to bold your questions (use ** or __ around it) to make them easier to see. When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question. Please do not star answers.

@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.

There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us as we go through this..

Candidates among us I spy are: @LuisAlvarado, @mateo_salta, @FEichinger, @ObsessiveSSOℲ, @RolandiXor, and @AmithKK

7

Alright, let's get this show on the road!

In your opinion, what do moderators do?

5

fossfreedom

Easy one to start with ... How much time do you have to devote to janitorial tasks?

7

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@fossfreedom While I am a student, with events and extracurricular stuff, I can manage one and a half hours most days, more on weekends, but some days(maybe like 8 per year) I can do none. I can also moderate during various free times throughout the day. So, anywhere from 2 to 3 hours a day.

mateo_salta

11:05 PM

@GraceNote Handle the exceptions.

Amith KK

Hey guys

A bit late?

Flabricorn

@AmithKK A tad.

Grace Note

Not too late, though.

Anna Lear

@mateo_salta Can you expand on that? What kind of exceptions do you think moderators deal with?

FEichinger

@GraceNote That's a question I believe I have partially answered on the nominations already. Moderators should guide the community and support it (and keep it in check a bit), not lead it. A moderator should, in my opinion, mostly act on behalf of the community.

Amith KK

11:06 PM

@GraceNote Moderators help the community handle some exceptions. Like when a user goes rouge or when a user starts using unfair methods to gain rep

Marco Ceppi

It's a good thing this is a persistent chat and you can scroll up.

Luis Alvarado

In your opinion, what do moderators do? - They are the neutral exceptional error handlers. They solve problems which need a "referee" to solve or find an answer. Apart from this the help the site by cleaning, merging and guiding the community.

How much time do you have to devote to janitorial tasks? - Well I actually have a lot to spare right now. Normally I dedicate about 4 hours a day (divided of course in 15 to 20 minute pieces).

Tim Stone

Do you feel like a representative percentage of the community participates in your site's meta? Based on that, how strongly do you think feedback presented on meta should factor into your decision making as a moderator?

6

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote IMO moderation is a task for keeping a site functioning, akin to the Pipeworks workers and electricians in The City of Ember, or other books of the sort. There is little fun downtime, and one's day is spent reviewing flags, and staying within the NDA. This job requires impartiality, maturity, and time. Also, lots and lots of manual labor.

RolandiXor

@GraceNote apart from ruling with an iron fist (just kidding, my fists are titanium :), moderators are here to take care of the less glamorous tasks that may come up on the site, such as turning answers into comments, driving off trolls and spammers, helping users who have lost their way, and in general - doing a lot of behind the scenes work to both keep the peace and the smoothness of the community.

mateo_salta

11:07 PM

@fossfreedom Several hours at various times during the day

Grace Note

Is a tad easier for Tim and the digest if you do the whole reply thing, just to note.

Amith KK

@fossfreedom I have a good amount of time to dedicate to it after my exams are over. I can put over 6 hours on a holiday

Gilles

@LuisAlvarado please reply to each question to answer it. There's a script that parses the transcript

jrg

Someone posts on meta, damning your Nazi soul for closing his question. What do you do?

4

RolandiXor

@fossfreedom My time is dependent largely upon my work load and my choice of how to spend my free time. In general, I work quickly but, carefully, so I can get a lot done in half hour intervals. I would sum it up as about three hours a day that I can devote to the janitorial tasks.

Amith KK

11:08 PM

@TimStone A good percentage of people do participate on meta. I would consult it for my decisions . Although, participation should improve.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@TimStone Honestly, I feel as while a good amount of people do participate, I'm not seeing enough recurring meta users beside a handful f 30-50. users.

Luis Alvarado

@TimStone No, I feel there should be more participation. Of course I am not one to say this since I too participate little on meta, but some ideas or incentives can be created to welcome new and old users to meta in favor of actively participating on how AU will work and offer.l

FEichinger

@fossfreedom While studies do occupy quite some time, I am usually available a good ten hours a day, at least. I already spend a large amount of that time on /review, but I believe at least 4 of those daily hours can go straight to janitorial.

Grace Note

@ObsessiveSSOℲ You have really big hands.

fossfreedom

There are many great candidates here - why should I elect you instead of someone else? What makes you stand-out from the crowd?

3

mateo_salta

11:10 PM

@AnnaLear suspicious voting, destructive actions that sometimes occur, and then the everyday tasks as handling flags

FEichinger

@TimStone The participation feels quite low. We have a core group, and then some one-offs. I do, however, push for using meta more, and I rely heavily on it in my decisions - this is where the community voices its opinion.

jrg

For the younger candidates (who are fairly numerous): how will you handle posts on meta claiming "you are incompetent because you are so young"?

6

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@jrg First of all, I would respond to the user on the meta post explaning my reasons for doing action XYZ. Then, I would carefully reevaluate my reasoning, with the user's reasoning also put into reason, and if I am still unsure, reach community consensus over policy in another meta post. Then, keep or undo the action.

RolandiXor

@TimStone in my opinion not that many people visit meta or even know what it is. I can't blame them as I tend to visit meta somewhat rarely (I admit), as I spend more time digging through review tasks and looking for ways I can help with answer or editing questions. I think however that feedback on meta is essential to a moderator's duties as it gives access to "a pulse of the community."

Luis Alvarado

Easy, explain the reasons for the close in a way that:

1. It is explained by being "on the poor victims side"
2. By explaining the reason in a way that the victim will understand and also accept.

* In case victim does not accept, I would start a talk/chat about why he/she thinks so and work out from there

FEichinger

11:11 PM

@jrg I would edit out the offensive parts and kindly inform the user that this hostilty is not gonna help getting an answer. I would, however, also answer the actual meta post.

Amith KK

@jrg Well, I'll really not change my mind unless the so called someone points out some detail that causes the question to be valid. Anyways, my reason would be fair and statable.

RolandiXor

cry, because there is no escape.

On the real though I would carefully explain why I made my decision, and if they are especially confrontational, knowing my own personality, I'd leave it to someone else to handle. I believe in stepping away when you know you can't deal with things the way they should be dealt with.

FEichinger

@fossfreedom I disagree with the very notion of judging myself or other candidates. I do have an opinion, but I do not think this should be voiced publicly.

RolandiXor

@TimStone in my opinion not that many people visit meta or even know what it is. I can't blame them as I tend to visit meta somewhat rarely (I admit), as I spend more time digging through review tasks and looking for ways I can help with answer or editing questions. I think however that feedback on meta is essential to a moderator's duties as it gives access to "a pulse of the community."

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@jrg I would begin (as with the question regarding how I would handle a use who complains about my actions) by reevaulating, explaining, and seeking consensus on policy if needed. If the belief of incompetency continues, I will continue to work with the user complaining until I manage to reach a decision that is fair to the user(from multiple perspectives) and remains within policy. I would also argue that mental age is not the same as physical age.

Amith KK

11:13 PM

@jrg Well. I'd just tell them that age is not a factor in moderation. You just need to have a straight mind. Well, Aren't you one of the younger one's that provided good services to the community?

Luis Alvarado

@fossfreedom Comparing myself to other candidates is like comparing a Hershey bar to another Hershey bar. We are all good, support the community, have the same ideals when Ubuntu is concerned and are actually advocates of Ubuntu (Reason why we are active on Ubuntu)...

If I had to actually answer this I would say nothing. Nothing is different from me or any of the other members that contribute to AU on a daily basis, helping the community the best they can.

Anna Lear

@LuisAlvarado Please use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together instead of copying the question into your responses. Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply.

mateo_salta

@TimStone I was active in meta from nearly the start of when I came here, and see many new users active in meta, Many are interested in the workings of the site, and it is a good platform for discussing things on the site, however solely basing a decision on a single new meta post may not give the best "view" of the entire situation

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@fossfreedom I also disagree with selecting by proving oneself "better" than others. Prove yourself competent, and the voters will see your positives, not tohers' negatives.

Grace Note

In what way do you feel that being a moderator will make you more effective as opposed to simply reaching 10k or 20k rep? Or staying there, if the case may be?

5

RolandiXor

11:14 PM

@fossfreedom that's really not something I like to discuss, as I've said numerous times - the moderators we have are the choice of the community. That said, I think what makes me stand out from some of the candidates is my depth of experience with the site, though in many ways, I'm still a learner - like all of us - still plastic. I would humbly decline puffing myself up vs anyone else.

Amith KK

A diamond will be attached to everything you say and have said in the past, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?

5

mateo_salta

@jrg Close the meta question (edit out Nazi, and other harmful content), with a firm but polite response, why - how the site works - and actions that he might incur if the situation is continued

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote Honestly, I feel as if I (and/or another candidate) would have a "surer" step if they are elected by the community that know what the voting is going to, as opposed to post votes. One can be good with Ubuntu, make it to 20K, and then prove to not be good at moderation.

Luis Alvarado

@jrg I would actually point them to jrg as an example. A "young candidate" physically, a very mature person emotionally and intellectually. So the whole idea of younger not been able to it is just an old VERY old idea that is long dead. If they prove their worth, they do not have to prove anything related to their age.

Amith KK

@GraceNote Well. We're the representatives of the community. Generally speaking, it is much more easier to control a group of people when you are leader.

RolandiXor

11:17 PM

@GraceNote after having been at 20k for some time, I quickly came to feel frustrated with just how much I couldn't do. For example, migrating questions, turning answers (that don't belong) into comments, merging accounts when new users get confused, returning a bounty, merging tags, etc. All told, none of these are tasks anyone would clamor for, but they are exactly the kind of tasks that myself and other high rep users would love to help with, but can't - as mere immortals. Wait...

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK First of all, I have some older comments from when I was less experienced with the site. I would work through those comments, making sure I did not misstep, and then either keep or remove them, as would be proper if it was a comment I made now.

Caleb

A new user comes along and asks several generic scripting questions. Somebody comes along and flags them all for migration to U&L; what do you do?

5

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote May we give multiple answers to a question if we run out of time with editing our existing post?

Amith KK

@AmithKK Well, I'd be fine with that. I would maybe go through some of my really old posts and refine them a bit. But other than that, I'm fine with that happening

mateo_salta

@AmithKK It will make me think more, but I will always be who I am.

FEichinger

11:18 PM

@GraceNote The difference between a moderator and a trusted user is quite apparent here, as the duties of moderation are very different from what garners reputation the most. A user who gains reputation easily may be well informed about the topic at hand, but lack experience in dealing with the more meta topics - and vice versa. I believe that I am considerably experienced on the meta end, while I hesitate answering main questions.

Grace Note

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Yes, just make sure they all reply to it.

RolandiXor

@jrg I shouldn't answer this I guess, but essentially I would point them to many real world examples of young leaders who are successful in what they do, as well as to older leaders who are ruinous to their positions and those under their authority.

Luis Alvarado

@GraceNote I none that sticks out but some moderation features that I could use (Like the janitor features) could help lower the confusion (And huge amount) of new users not finding the correct answers because the title has a typo or was expressed in another way, not to mention duplicate questions and helping in solve problems that require actually calling out for a moderator.

jrg

Some posts a question about some unreleased software that Canonical is working on and has demoed, but not released. What do you do?

4

FEichinger

@AmithKK I would stand by these comments, posts, and whatever else I said. I may have been wrong or inappropriate - but it happened. Trying to cover it up - or even fearing it - is the wrong way of going about this.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

11:20 PM

@Caleb I would carefully consider the questions first. Are they Ubuntu-specific and answerable? If so, keep it, but mark the flag as helpful as it is in good faith. If it isn't, and is a good question that is migration-worthy, then I shall migrate after checking with the U&L moderators. If it is not migration worthy based on quality, then close it with an appropriate reason.

Luis Alvarado

@AmithKK If the diamond becomes real, multiplies and makes me richer than Bill gates, then bring it on. If not, then I will be the same guy but, hear this... with the diamond on my side (Do not confuse with Pokemon). So it will actually not change my feeling for the site or community.

Amith KK

@Caleb Depends on the question. I would migrate it if it's absolutely U&L worthy after asking the mods there.

RolandiXor

@AmithKK like nothing will change. I am who I am and always will be myself. A diamond, more eyes on me, or being completely alone should not ever change that. Outside of this site (TMI?) I'm accustomed to this kind of scrutiny, both as the son of two pastors and as a prominent person in various situations over the course of my life so far. Being under scrutiny for being a moderator would be just another instance of the same.

fossfreedom

You find out that a well known and highly valued Ask Ubuntu contributor is possibly engaging in questionable behaviour, like having friends upvoting their posts. How do you handle the situation?

5

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@jrg In accordance with the current alpha/beta policy, I would close as off-topic if it is for support or bug complaints(which are off-topic anyway). If it is about features and is of sufficient quality, I would leave it open. However, we must remember that Canonical makes things that are not all Ubuntu.

Luis Alvarado

11:22 PM

@jrg Just point them to the FAQ and also to the question about why it should not be asked about unfinished, in development, future ideas in AU. Basically, it would not have a real answer in that time frame or until the work Canonical is doing is actually released.

Amith KK

@fossfreedom Well, I'd tell them clearly in a private chatroom that it is behaviour that can get him/her banned and that they should not repeat it

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@fossfreedom I would politely contact the users related to this violation, ask then to stop, and allow the serialvoting script to do its job(since moderators cannot see or change votes). I would explain to the users why they are in violation, and explain the serial voting detection script, as well as link to the pertaining meta post.

mateo_salta

@jrg close it to the Duplicate general "this is what Canonical is doing" question that the community has made, as there will always be interest in the new software. If it is "how do I use it" it would be off topic as it can't be used yet.

FEichinger

@Caleb This depends on whether or not these questions are of use to us. Do they apply to the ubuntu audience or are they, due to their more in-depth point of view, rather localized and would probably fit better on U&L? Even if they would belong on U&L - can they still be beneficial on our site? Does U&L already have a Q&A on it that we could link to? I would only migrate it if U&L deem it fitting and AU does not need it at all.

RolandiXor

@Caleb Unless the questions really don't fit the site (for example, if the user references another distro or a *NIX), I would decline the flags, and if possible, I would explain to the flagger (via an anonymous comment, or if they bring it up - on chat in person) why the questions are acceptable on the site. If need be, I would write a meta post about it - without mentioning who flagged.

Amith KK

11:23 PM

@jrg Well Canonical!=Ubuntu. So, depends on how good the question is.

What will change about Ask Ubuntu after you are elected?

4

FEichinger

@jrg I would close it as off-topic, as it is technically part of ubuntu+1, or similar "future" and "not yet supported" projects. I would, however, consider going for a similar setup as with ubuntu phones currently: A canonical question detailing why we are probably not the best source of information for that.

Luis Alvarado

@fossfreedom First I actually look at the evidence, he/she did not get to that position by doing stuff like that. If it is true, I then talk to said person to explain the information I found. After that I would ask in private to other mods about what should be done or how it should be handled.

RolandiXor

@jrg if the question fits within the boundaries of the site (such as - Is the source code for xyz available as yet), I would most likely just answer the question. However, in most such cases, I would explain why the question is outside of the scope of the site (pointing to the FAQ at times (if I remember, to be 100% honest ;), and close the question.

Marco Ceppi

Do you feel you'll use your new super-vote privileges a lot if elected moderator? (Just for clarification: All votes to close are binding and no longer require 5 votes from community to close)

4

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK There will be a new set of hands helping keep this site operational. While I will avoid changes for the worse, I will continue getting community feedback on meta(both MSO and AU.meta) and possibly request features on MSO to help with moderation, or help explain the MSO process to interested users.

Luis Alvarado

11:25 PM

@AmithKK Basically nothing, at least the day after I get elected. After that I might start throwing out ideas or ways the site could be enhanced, which probably the older mods have already thought of many of them

FEichinger

@fossfreedom I would evaluate evidence and contact the user in question - perhaps even make sure the user hasn't been hacked and that the behaviour isn't induced from the outside. But I would also rely on the systems SE has already in place at first.

Amith KK

@MarcoCeppi No, Actually i'll use it in moderate quantity. After all, it's the community that's moderating and you just help them in decisions that they can't really take on their own, like a referee

RolandiXor

@fossfreedom I don't believe in jumping into anything too quickly, especially with regards to taking action in such a situation as a voting ring. I would (if it is allowed) contact the person suspected of the behaviour | (and if it is not allowed to contact them) I would monitor the situation until we have enough data/info to make a decision, then upon consulting with other moderators, I would take action. I do not believe in partiality.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@MarcoCeppi IIRC moderators are still forced to use the super-vote, and cannot cast a normal vote. If this is implemented, I will only use this in cases of obvious spam, off-topicness, and other noncontreversial closures and deletions.

Caleb

What, in your opinion, is the purpose of closing questions? What are the positive and negative impacts and, in your opinion, should the measure be taken more or less frequently than the current status-quo?

7

ObsessiveSSOℲ

11:26 PM

@MarcoCeppi IIRC moderators are still forced to use the super-vote, and cannot cast a normal vote. If this is implemented, I will only use this in cases of obvious spam, off-topicness, and other noncontreversial closures and deletions.

Shog9

on Ask Ubuntu, almost anyone can moderate, as gaining reputation provides access to various tools for doing so: flags, commenting, editing, close/reopen, deletion... How much moderating do you engage in now?

7

mateo_salta

@Caleb It often depends on the quality of the question, and how abstract the scripting is, if it involves common components to Ubuntu many users are more than enthusiastic to get into a little scripting, especially when it involves the things we use in Ubuntu everyday, however many may be too complicated or unrelated.

Luis Alvarado

@MarcoCeppi I actually REALLY hope that, as the help site for moderators shows (The theory of moderation I think it was named) I do not get to use the new found super cow powers very often. In fact, if they ever get used, I hope it is for something that can be dealt with in a positive manner. If I do have to get into the gray area, then well, it will take longer but I will do my best to solve the problem.

FEichinger

@AmithKK To be perfectly honest - probably nothing. We already have an established group of moderators and a good chunk of policies. There is few room for change overall. But in this small space, I hope my philosophy on relying on the community's decisions and using meta a lot more do get spread.

Amith KK

@AmithKK I'd not really do anything in the beginning. Maybe I'll emulate @Oli and do something like the Cleanup Site, for tag cleanup :P

ObsessiveSSOℲ

11:28 PM

@Shog9 I often check on the queues such as close vote, edits, low-quality posts, and others. I will flag upon seeing an improper post, and/or cast a closevote. I will also perform edit approval and close votes from posts where I simply come across one deserving a vote.

Luis Alvarado

@Caleb Am more with the idea of explaining the OP that his/her question could be closed because of X reason. I would also give advice or point in the right direction to avoid first closing the question (Let OP close it themselves or alleviate the problems associated with closing the question to the OP or other members.

RolandiXor

everything, and when I say everything, I mean everything. All users must wear my planet's uniform. All moderators must... oh wait, wrong answer.

On the one hand, no one person will make the "big difference" - as that is the result of *all* of our collective efforts. If I'm elected, things will largely continue as usual, however, we will now have an extra pair of eyes and hands to keep the engine of this site running smoothly, and some users (such as those who speak other languages and don't realize the site only allows English) - will be able to get a better experience (since I believe in …

Amith KK

@Caleb The purpose of closing a question is to tidy up the site, and to guide users. For example, the "Duplicate" vote helps a user to find out where the old question with more answers are. Also, all close votes are decided by 5 users agreeing. I think it should continue how it goes now.

Luis Alvarado

@Caleb For the positive aspects, one could say, cleaner site, less duplicates or wrongly created questions, less confusion. For the negative side, one could say the OP, depending on the person, would feel bad about the whole situation.

Grace Note

Lotsa momentum and questions, wow. We're at the halfway mark, 30 minutes to go.

mateo_salta

11:30 PM

@AmithKK To the normal user, it will be like nothing has changed, there are allays logical changes to the entire system of course, but a new moderator should not have a goal of "Changing the World" so to say, only in favor of changes for the better, as that could be destructive, and if possible too much power is in the hands of Community Moderators.

FEichinger

@MarcoCeppi Since I don't have actual abilities to do so right now, except for flagging, I will assume the hypothetical scenario that I do have the privileges required. I would probably even slow down a bit, unless it is urgent. I would give the community some time to decide on their own. Spam and "obvious" close-posts would be dealt with sooner - preferably immediately, of course.

Grace Note

War has broken out across the Stack Exchange Network. Ask Ubuntu has enough troops that you could deploy them to take down one rival site. Which do you take down: Super User, Arqade, or Unix & Linux?

5

Amith KK

@Shog9 I use the review queue to do my maintanance. I used to rank #3 in the cleanup. Basically, I try to do what I can with my current powers

Marco Ceppi

@GraceNote Obviously Arqade ;)

RolandiXor

@MarcoCeppi honestly, I do - because if I cast a vote, it tend to be done after careful consideration - so comparing my current level of casting close votes to what I project I would do - I think it would be fair to say I'll use it a lot percentage wise - but not necessarily in terms of the actual number of votes.

Luis Alvarado

11:31 PM

@Shog9 Well actually, I would say a lot. Sometimes, at least 3 or 4 times a week I stumble on a problem that if I had moderation status I could sort it out faster. Apart from that everyday is moderation day for me.

Grace Note

@MarcoCeppi I knew where your crosshairs were aiming before I even asked ♪

Amith KK

@GraceNote Do I need to answer that?

mateo_salta

@Caleb A tool for the smooth operation of the site, many of the closings are for the purpose of ultimately restoring the question. Closing the question, not constructive, not a real question, gives links to the FAQ, so that users can improve the post in a constructive manner, without vagrant excessive down-voting, comments, ect.

Luis Alvarado

@GraceNote None. I sign a peace treaty with them. Wait for them to engage and kill each other. Once they are fewer than us, weaker, then we proceed to "talk to them". one at a time.

Caleb

@LuisAlvarado Quick follow up to that ... the superpowers aren't something you can turn off. In other words, all your actions are now going to be moderator actions. Does not wanting to use them often mean you will take less actions than you do now in some areas?

Amith KK

11:33 PM

Where there is a will, there is a way: How far would you go to help another user? How far have you gone in the past to ensure a new user does not become discouraged at the first sign of trouble?

4

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote That depends. By "take down", if you mean by spamming and trolling, none, since that's against general network-wide policy. If you mean by shutting down the site in favor of us, I'd lean in favor of taking down U&L, as it seems to be a crossover site between AU(Ubuntu only) and SU(any OS and/or hardware)

Amith KK

@LuisAlvarado Brilliant tactic.

FEichinger

@Caleb I think we're doing a fine job, right now. Questions should be closed, if they are actively harmful to the site's quality. As for impact: Closing a question is a sign to everyone that this seems "unwanted" - this may sometimes give a wrong impression. It obviously helps consolidate, collapse and organize the site, though.

Grace Note

@AmithKK You could elect not to answer it just like you could elect not to answer any other question.

Carries all the same weight to skip it, though.

Amith KK

@GraceNote Well. I'd prefer not to wage war. U&L could be absorbed into us though

mateo_salta

11:34 PM

@GraceNote Discourage fighting among the sites, contact mods of the site saying that there are rouge elements at your site to best handle the possible cross posting and chaos.

RolandiXor

the purposes for closing questions in my opinion should be the following:

- The question does not fit the scope of the site and would fit somewhere else, or not at all.
- The question is not a question at all (for example, rants, spam, and feature requests).
- The question is out dated, no longer relevant, and cannot be brought up to a useful state.

I do believe that we should close questions a little less (and sometimes it does seem like we are a little heavy handed with some of the more obscure questions), but in general I don't see that we need to make a big alteration in this regard.

fossfreedom

What is the stand out thing/activity that you have done on Ask Ubuntu to-date that you are MOST proud of and why?

3

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK While I cannot personally find the time to help every frustrated user out there(at least, not without a fake London telephone booth), I will try to help users that are sincerely willing to contribute to the site, but are having trouble. For this, I plan to use a few polite comments, and possibly the power to reopen a question that was incorrectly closed.

FEichinger

@Shog9 Due to my low reputation, I hardly have access to full moderation tools. I do regularly participate in the First Post /review, and keep flagging what I come across - as well as, as I mentioned in the nominations already, the CleanUp and Regulators Room actions that clean up the site - directly or indirectly.

Caleb

@LuisAlvarado (*and anybody else who wants to follow up) The whole close question workflow is changing across SE sites. In the mean time, what do you think about the long standing concept of a closure being a "temporary holding place" while the ultimate fate of a either improvement and re-open or eventual deletion is hashed out?

4

Amith KK

11:36 PM

@AmithKK I'd go as far as correcting and notifiying their mistakes. Reopening their questions if they are rational etc.

FEichinger

@GraceNote While I'm a firm believer that we really shouldn't have so much hostility (and my personal preferense SO isn't on the list), if I had to choose, I'd go with Arqade, as I believe the Q&A setup is not the best per se for the gaming topic.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@fossfreedom Probably my many Meta feature requests(on Meta.AU, and MSO), which I feel is a sign of community interaction.

Luis Alvarado

@Caleb No, it only means that, if the final decision in this site were up to me, I would actually like to somehow manage to avoid taking "final decisions" that could put somebody down or make them see AU in another way. Since this is not the case, any issue that comes in AU I will deal in the best manner I can, with or without super cow powers. If I have to use them, I will, if not, then that will be also good. I actually like treat everyone the same and expect the same.

RolandiXor

@Shog9 I make avid use of the review queue, though recently (due to a temporary jump in my work load) I have not been able to do as much as I did before. However, as I've mentioned on numerous occasions, there are some details of moderation in which my hands are tied, and thus I can't contribute as much as (or where) I would like to, such as in turning a "me too!" answer into a "I have the same issue" comment.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@Caleb IMO a closure is still a decision that a question does not belong, but if a question is edited and becomes acceptable, I won't hesitate to reopen upon request(from the OP or another user)

Amith KK

11:37 PM

@Caleb Well. That won't really work out for duplicates, now will they? For other close reasons, I agree with you

Marco Ceppi

Most of you are running under the premises that "I have x years in Ubuntu/Linux/Open Source". While this seems helpful for answering and asking questions, how does this help distinguish you as a good potential moderator?

5

Luis Alvarado

@AmithKK I have gotten cases where I actually SSH to the users PC, VNC my way to their computer, had a live google hangout, skype chat, IRC or google chat. They came to Askubuntu because they needed help, some cases, this people REALLY needed to solve their issue. Since I have worked for people that work for some company, I know how they feel. So I give it my best I see if I can solve the problem in the best way I know how.

Amith KK

@fossfreedom Well. I'd say I have answered quite a few questions, and used the review queue regularly.

RolandiXor

Super User most likely, because they use Windows. Windows is inherently evil, everyone should use Doors.

On a serious (lol?) note, I don't think I would need troops from Ask Ubuntu in such a war. I'd just return to my normal life... and avoid the war :)...

_then come back and take over the world after the warring factions have destroyed their governmental structure! MUAHAHAHA... ahem, I mean, tee-hee._

George Edison

<--- is back

mateo_salta

11:39 PM

@fossfreedom This askubuntu.com/questions/233065/… Because at one time the question was closed as off topic, and extremely down-voted in encourging the user to improve the question, and intervention by some other users, we were able to help the user.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@MarcoCeppi I personally don't think it really does. While there are a few edge cases where this may apply, maturity and impartiality are more important.

FEichinger

@AmithKK Get them into a chat, show them around, show them a few tweaks - and try to reach out for them if they do get "lost". Again: I promote a philosophy of much less hostility on SE. We don't need instant smirk remarks and sarcasm, so, obviously, I would discourage these from the established users as well.

Luis Alvarado

@AmithKK I should also mention that I learn more from a very tough question that I have to research, test and work my way into it than an easier question. I also find tougher questions a challenge which really raise my will to solve it. I mean REALLY gives me a adrenaline rush to work on it.

Shog9

Comments: more like footnotes, or more like those things under YouTube videos?

3

RolandiXor

@AmithKK I've gone as far as to stay up late at night and talk people through their issues on chat, once I set up a VM to install PBX service that I didn't even need, and once I stuck with a single issue for weeks on end. I think I'd go pretty far for a user if I felt they really needed it.

FEichinger

11:40 PM

@fossfreedom I think what I am most proud of is my activity on /review and the chat. Keeping in touch with everyone and discussing stuff, rather than just putting the decision on the wall, that feels awesome.

Amith KK

@MarcoCeppi I don't think experience on just using the OS matters much. But it is required to help to understand the question, which is then needed to take action on it.

As a moderator on AU, you will also moderate the entire Stack Exchange chat system. How much time do you spend, or plan to spend in the Ask Ubuntu chat room, and why?

4

mateo_salta

@MarcoCeppi All the computer/linux experience in the world would not distinguish someone as better for a moderator.

Luis Alvarado

@fossfreedom I have some answers that took me a while to solve, several hours or days. Thos might me some of the proud work. Others are also those people that got their answer to a problem they had for days. A couple might also be the people I dedicated more time and even dedicated myself outside of AU so that they could enjoy Ubuntu and feel that Askubuntu reaches out to anyone that needs help, no matter where. Got small proud moments that are good to remember.

Grace Note

If I'm not mistaken, this should be Seth's question (Apparently it wasn't, so I think his did get asked by now), so: What is your vision for what Ask Ubuntu should focus on as a community given the scope overlap with other sites on the network, including Unix & Linux, SuperUser, etc?

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ObsessiveSSOℲ

@Shog9 Comments are not for chitchat. They are for site moderation reasons, such as suggesting duplicates. Therefore, more footnotes and managerial remarks, and less opinion about the post.

bcbc

11:42 PM

What previous leadership experience do you have

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RolandiXor

@fossfreedom I'd have to say going out of the way to help people with difficult questions. Why? Because I know I'd be happy if someone did the same for me.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK If I am elected, I plan to spend most of my AU day there, handling users' questions, and will be able to handle flags as they come up.

FEichinger

@Caleb Personally, I disagree with that. I do agree that it has its merits - it keeps the question from being overrun with even more low-quality content, but on the other hand, it shows a bad sign. This sort of "cooldown" should, in my opinion, really only be used if it's a topic that's controversial in the community.

mateo_salta

@Shog9 Not like YouTube. Reading youtube comments is maddening, so comments should be on-topic, and most used for asking for further information.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote I feel as if AU should continue extending a hand to newer users, without any of that trigger-happy(downvote and closevote) SO style.

Amith KK

11:44 PM

@AmithKK I already spend enough time in the chat to moderate it. It will continue as usual after I get elected

George Edison

Just a quick interjection here - have we asked any of the questions from our shared document yet?

RolandiXor

@Caleb I see no need for a change in that system, except for more effort on our part, being put into making "nu-uh" questions into "How can I abcd, efg?" questions, which can be answered instead of nuked.

Luis Alvarado

@Caleb Sorry I have not researched this (You know more than me) but if I have to say an answer I would say that options are good, limiting is bad. If I have as a mod the option to close for "temp holding" and also for improvement or deletion, it would be better than having only one option. I say this because any of this 3 options really depends on the question involved, the user that did the question, the time it was made, how long has passed since it was made and the way it was made.

Grace Note

@GeorgeEdison The ones that have have been struck-through in the doc.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@bcbc I've been captain of a robotics team, and I've also been a rowing coxswain. The former position requires managing a team, resources, and funding, and the latter requires precision, and a quick and decisive(but also right on the first decision) mind.

FEichinger

11:45 PM

@MarcoCeppi I personally don't - except for the notion that I embraced the community alongside ubuntu. I don't see a direct correlation between a user well-informed about the site's main topic, and a user moderating it - while a large amount of insight obviously helps in defining the border line between off- and on-topic.

Amith KK

@GraceNote Well, AU should be newbie friendly, unlike some other overlapping sites, which are targeted for a professionalistic audience

Grace Note

We're at the 15 minute mark, try not to drown the candidates too much in our closing minutes. ♪

RolandiXor

@MarcoCeppi Honestly, that is not the premise that I'm running under, and in my humble opinion, anyone who thinks that qualifies them is not qualified (or needs to seek within themselves another criterion for qualification).

Luis Alvarado

@Caleb ... As you can see, all of this variables change the final decision one makes as a moderator. In one question, closing it will solve the problem, in another, it would be best to close it until it is improved and so on. No ultimate answer can solve all problems, this is why options that are flexible are better than rigid ones, because humans are no closed minded, they are open.

mateo_salta

@GraceNote Ubuntu is expanding as more than just "A linux OS" and should will adjust accordingly as the platform moves to phones - mobile - android devices (then and overlap with Android will occur).

FEichinger

11:47 PM

@Shog9 Comments should mostly be used for valuable but also tangential or supportive (as in: "Did you try this?") remarks. If it goes beyond that, it often already fits as an actual post. So, footnotes. Definitely.

Amith KK

@bcbc Well. I was the IT president at school a year or two back. :D

Gilles

Do you participate in other Ubuntu-related communities and in what role?

4

ObsessiveSSOℲ

Ask Ubuntu has begun to include a few acceptable non-Ubuntu, but Ubuntu-related questions, such as about Launchpad. Will you remain open to such questions, as long as they are constructive?

4

FEichinger

@AmithKK Way. Too. Much. I think I spend more than two thirds of my SE time here on the chat. I do multitask, so it's not my only activity, but I'm definitely lurking the chat a whole damn lot.

mateo_salta

@AmithKK As much time in chat as possible, It is a backbone of commutation, and connection with other users.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

11:48 PM

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Yes, so long as they are useful to the Ubuntu community at large.

Amith KK

@Shog9 Yeah, more like footnotes indeed "Did you try this?" sorta stuff . Youtube is not the best example of commenting

jokerdino

@ObsessiveSSOℲ I personally am comfortable about questions related to Launchpad. It is much more closely tied to Ubuntu than is obvious. So, yes. I am open to such questions on Ask Ubuntu.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@Gilles While I am not officially on a LoCo team, and I don't do much on the wiki, I've done translations, bug management, and have done Ubuntu-related community outreach, including within our school's IT department. This aspect, however, is similar to the one about Ubuntu expertise in how it is less of a factor than maturity and impartiality.

RolandiXor

@Shog9 A bit of both, more of the former than the latter. Comments should (ideally) be for requests of clarification (in the case of questions), giving guidance on writing a better question/answer, or for explaining an action (such as a down/close vote). However, being that we are all human, I see no problem with occasional (and in rare cases) extended comment threads related to either humour or mild discussion (e.g. two persons are in vastly differing time zones and chat would be impossible).

Luis Alvarado

@MarcoCeppi Actually, the time I have in Ubuntu, Open source or anything related to this, does little to how one is good as moderation. Moderation is more closed related to how a teacher and students behave, how a leader works with his community or pack. If I had to say something related to that is that being a teacher at a pre-college and a degree on teaching can help a bit. Moderation is not about how much you know, is how you apply that information and the way you apply it to the community.

mateo_salta

11:49 PM

@Gilles I have participated in launchpad, clicking "this bug affects me" when the situation arises, since we don't handle bugs at AU

Amith KK

@Gilles Yeah, I do. I'm part of freyja-dev headed by @jokerdino. I also am part of 2buntu.com, founded by @RolandiXor @jrg and @Gui. Although I'm not an active blogger for the last few months. I also do launchpad translations at times.

FEichinger

@GraceNote The ideal for the site would be a clear-cut definition. But that's not possible due to the very nature of language itself. But I think when it comes to the overlap, duplicate information across sites is "fine". I'm not saying "Answer the same topic on both sites.", I'm saying: Answer it on one and have the summary + link on the other, seeing how there is nothing in the system allowing us to actually combine two questions from different sites.

RolandiXor

@AmithKK I spend hours (sometimes) in the AU chat room, both to catch up with like minds, share a joke with friends, or to learn/share info. As a high rep user I'm accustomed to the rare chat flag and the occasional rudeness that crops up in the chat system, and I think I'm ready and able to handle it.

Luis Alvarado

@Shog9 Like those things under youtube although it depends how one uses them. I feel they are there to help the OP enhance the question or the user that answered to explain it better. They are like tips that others leave behind to help others. Of course this is my way of viewing it.

Amith KK

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Yeah, I will keep them open. Launchpad is part of the Ubuntu Project and highly related to the User Experience.

okay, so the moderators will work as a team, but what will be the choosen method of communication between them? and how will regular users be able to be part of this if at all?

4

FEichinger

11:52 PM

@bcbc Well, as I've detailed on my pretty-much-biography-thingy-story, I have been a forums moderator, Quality Assurance, "leading" community member - pretty much everything that gets combined in a StackExchange moderator.

@Gilles I don't, in fact. This is not due to personal preference, however. It is, because I have never really gotten "into it". I have no real project I feel I can contribute to, outside of Ask Ubuntu, and I think this keeps me focused, at least.

mateo_salta

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Using Launchpad is a essential part of getting software into Ubuntu, Many questions that are directly/indirectly related to Ubuntu are best suited for this Q/A style, I found the we made only a few "set in stone" don't ask about topics, and there is a broad range that we do accept as being on topic.

Luis Alvarado

@AmithKK The same I spend every day the real world let's me. I actually spend more time hunting down questions I can answer than in the chat, but in chat I also find questions that others need answer that I could add to them. The time on the chat I have noticed is better appreciated and valued by users that appear there asking for help (Last 2 weeks have been helping between mysql problems and video problems), so most likely I will end up applying more time in chat to help more.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK Things which are public, will be discussed in chat(either a public chat room or AU general chat room). What is sensitive, or personal data, even if not directly violating the NDA(but still something you might not want public) would be in a private chat room.

jokerdino

@Gilles I am currently a part of a development team meant to develop apps for the Ubuntu environment. I have also contributed translations, bug triaging, submitting bug fixes and advocating Ubuntu.

Amith KK

8 minutes left

FEichinger

11:53 PM

@ObsessiveSSOℲ Sure. There is not much to qualify on that: If it benefits the site and community, it shall remain.

RolandiXor

@GraceNote Ask Ubuntu should focus on being the best resource for Ubuntu users and developers that it can be - and not be worried about overlap - because after all, even Windows topics will at times overlap with the experiences that drive questions on the site. However, that said, we should be careful not to become the host of "Ubuntu and every unofficial derivative's QA". In that regard, I think we've been doing a pretty great job, actually ;).

Amith KK

@AmithKK anything that needs public interference will be discussed in the AUGR or the Ubuntu Regulators room. Anything that is to be private, in a private chatroom.

jokerdino

@AmithKK I think meta.AU is a perfectly fine place to discuss issues related to the site. Everyone can take part in it and contribute their opinions. If in the case of sensitive issues, it can be taken over to the private chat.

FEichinger

@AmithKK I would love to have some kind of dedicated chat for moderators, or any other way of transparently communicating and getting the community involved. That's actually something I should've answered the "What will change?" question with. But I also don't see that happening. It would be awesome, and I would immediately be up to it - but for the most part the few people that do get involved on meta are also the same people that [...]

[...] can communicate with the mods directly on the General Chat and the such. That is probably a chicken-egg problem, though.

Amith KK

@AmithKK anything that needs public interference will be discussed in the AUGR or the Ubuntu Regulators room. Anything that is to be private, in a private chatroom. The community issues also can me discussed in Ask Ubuntu Meta

I am a funny person, and like to have fun... but sometimes I make comments that can be misread (and in hindsight perhaps should not have been said at all) if a person does this, but is sincerely is sorry after the fact, how would a situation be handled like this?

3

Luis Alvarado

11:56 PM

@GraceNote I have had several ideas about this. Askubuntu is a community that is based on Q/A, many of which solve most users their problems. For each question that appears, many have found their answer and many more will get their answer with that new question. My vision is that Askubuntu, differentiates with other sites in that it focuses on Ubuntu (Obviously) but, by being like that can create tools which relate the Ubuntu OS to this site, creating in a way a "help system" for new/old users.

RolandiXor

@bcbc Without going into too much detail about my offline life, I've been in a leadership position several times in very real and important areas and ways in my life so far, and in the online world I've been the leader of a rather extensive (but disciplined) gaming guild (at one time having 100 members) - which believe it or not - was a good place to learn what it means to truly be a leader, and I've been a GM (game moderator) as well.

Grace Note

As we approach the close of thing, final thoughts from the candidates?

4

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@AmithKK Politely explain to them that their comment may have offended some, and delete the comment. Assume good faith the first time. If done in bad faith, more firmly, bot politely, explain that rudeness is not tolerated. After repeated requests to stop, and further violations(as well as discussion from other mods), a suspension may be put to use.

@GraceNote I wish everyone the best of luck, and I encourage those who do not win, to try again next year.

mateo_salta

@GraceNote Oh, No... Not Again!

RolandiXor

@bcbc I've also run a number of social networks at times (when Ning was free), and I founded and still manage a group blog (2buntu.com). Outside of that I think my leadership experience is quite extensive. Just to be sure - I'll list a few - prefect - twice in my life, manager of a group of other workers at one time, prominent figure in my community (churchwise) - etc.

jokerdino

11:58 PM

@AmithKK If a person acknowledges his mistake and promises not to do that again, there isn't much that can be done. If the intent was malicious, punishments might be dished out but if it was intentional, letting go would be a relatively better option.

Amith KK

@AmithKK Well. I'd tell him/her politely to mind their commentary more, and that rudeness is not tolerated. I'd basically leave him with a warning. I would also maybe edit out the comment to be neutral for him/her

FEichinger

@AmithKK Depending on how viable it would be to edit it to a more "neutral" comment, I would prefer that - in coordination with the user in question. I may also recommend leaving it be - perhaps with a subsequent comment that explains the problem, or apologizes for it (from either me, or even the user themselves) - or removing it entirely. It really depends on the situation, but it is not a definite "Punish NAO!" thing.

ObsessiveSSOℲ

@GraceNote I also plan to use suspension as little as possible, favoring communication first, and then after repeated attempts to reach them, and after it is known to be bad faith, and discussing with other mods, only then employ a suspension.

FEichinger

@GraceNote Final thoughts? Oh, where the hell did that hour go?! Wow!

jokerdino

@GraceNote Final thoughts? Waking up at 5 in the morning for the town hall chat was more difficult than I thought.

Luis Alvarado

11:59 PM

@bcbc Well I could mention I was one of the programmers in a WoW emulator, was the leader of a very old database for the same game and other very geeky stuff. But seriously, I have tough a little over 500 kids and adults and that has brought a different way of thinking. You end up learning how people think and how people try to learn new things. You also learn new points of view that even contradict your own (Which is awesome actually). So I can say i have had several years of leadership.

Shog9

Most critical question: WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE COLOR?

4

Grace Note

@jokerdino Hah, hey there. Glad you could make it within the time. ♪

Transcript for

Ask Ubuntu Town Hall Chat