English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

15:00

@Martha, I just bumped you over 7K.

Martha

@Robusto Whee! (Although 6999 was a nice number, while it lasted)

Robusto

Everyone has to grow up sometime.

RegDwight

OMG. uɐʇɐs uʍop-ǝpısdn!

Thanks, @Robusto!

That was close.

MrHen

Why are closed posts showing up in the review section?

RegDwight

@MrHen Um, I had a quick look and I don't see one.

Martha

15:06

Ok, I gotta ask: @RegDwight, how are you doing that upside-down text?

RegDwight

Googling for "upside down", then doing whatever Google suggests.

flipmytext.com

MrHen

@RegDwight I see two:

-1

Q: FCE use of english part 2 - where to find

Where can I find some www test with script checking for use of english? omit www.examenglish.com please.

test

And the other is an answer to a closed question, which makes sense.

english.stackexchange.com/review/…

RegDwight

Ah, stoopid me was in the wrong tab. Sorries!

MrHen

That is the link I used to find the above.

Robusto

¡pǝɹǝʍsuɐ ʎpoqou ǝɹoɟǝɹǝɥʇ 'pǝʞsɐ ʎpoqou uoıʇsǝnb ɐ sı sıɥʇ

RegDwight

15:09

Okay, now my neck hurts.

Robusto

You started this.

MrHen

okay, quick, give me an upside-down palindrome that can be read both ways

RegDwight

@Robusto I never invaded Poland! Personally.

@MrHen ooo

MrHen

@RegDwight Was that an exclamation of excitement or a really lame answer to the request?

RegDwight

Whaddaya mean, lame? Them's fighting words here, buddy.

Robusto

15:11

@RegDwight — Uh-huh. I suppose Poland invaded itself, from both sides, by both countries of whose language you are a native speaker?

RegDwight

@Robusto That was my understanding as well.

I only surround and occupy stuff linguistically.

Robusto

@MrHen — Watch it, you don't want @RegDwight to go all NKVD on your ass.

RegDwight

It's my wife who keeps invading Poland and speaking all kinds of weird languages there.

Except Polish.

Because Polish is not weird.

At all.

@MrHen Anyhow, to answer your actual question: the point is that closed posts can be improved to the point of being reopen-worthy.

At least theoretically.

I think we've had exactly two reopened questions thus far.

MrHen

@RegDwight Ah, thank you.

Also, does it actually help if I flag things? Or am I just being annoying? Or... ?

Robusto

@RegDwight — So, you practice linguistic phagocytosis?

Rhodri

15:19

@MrHen I must admit I haven't bothered flagging things because @RegDwight reads everything. Twice. The second time upside-down.

RegDwight

@MrHen Well, the rule of thumb across pretty much all sites of the network is that most mods prefer to see too many flags rather than too few. If you keep flagging stuff incorrectly or just for fun, you will get contacted by mods soon enough. Also, keep an eye on your flag weight.

(Under the gravatar in your user profile.)

MrHen, Texas

1.3k 13

meaning usage word-choice single-word-requests idioms prepositions words

MrHen

@RegDwight What is flag weight for/mean/do?

RegDwight

You start off with 100. If a moderator judges one of your flags as valid, you get 10 points or something. If a flag of yours gets dismissed as invalid, you lose points.

MrHen

I was going to edit my most recent typo but realized I deserve the shame it brings. :(

RegDwight

You're currently at 185, so whatever you've been doing, it's been for the better overall.

MrHen

15:21

@RegDwight Mmk. I am just sort of winging this so let me know if I could be doing something better or make things easier on you.

Martha

Yeah, my flag weight's only 160.

RegDwight

@MrHen Well, of course the best thing for you to do would be to get to 20k, like, pronto.

Rhodri

So @Martha throws her weight around?

Martha

THWACK!

RegDwight

@Rhodri She's been playing too much Wii Fit lately.

Martha

15:23

(And harumph.)

I wish my actual weight was 160. Heck, even 185 would be nice.

MrHen

@RegDwight Ugh. I think "pronto" may be over-estimating my ability to farm^H^H^H^Hgain rep.

RegDwight

BTW, cross-through is ---farm---, like so: ~~farm~~ gain rep.

MrHen

@RegDwight Thanks, but I prefer the tech cred.

RegDwight

I figured as much but thought I should ~~brag a little~~ mention it nonetheless.

MrHen

@RegDwight I actually didn't know that yet, so it was helpful if not practical. :)

RegDwight

15:27

Hm... That could be my motto... @Cerberus: how do I say "extremely helpful though utterly useless" in Latin?

Rhodri

@Martha Ow. (My nervous system is slow today. I blame it on the automounters.)

MrHen

@RegDwight "Trivial," but in Latin

RegDwight

Mucho triumviratum est?

Rhodri

Something about this answer has my inner pedant up in arms, but I can't figure out what. english.stackexchange.com/questions/4828/…

Martha

Not to be a pedant, but it's spelled pedant, not pedent.

MrHen

15:30

@Rhodri Too many commas and the comma'd portions are not actually helpful.

Martha

]:-P

RegDwight

yesterday, by Robusto

Hey, maybe we should have Pedants.SE. Then we could ask about the proper way to do, say, or appreciate anything — just imagine the seething resentment for all the accepted answers.

MrHen

"required, and correct, " is redundant.

RegDwight

Feb 15 at 19:22, by Martha

Somewhere I have a button that says something like "I'm not anal, I'm a pedant. There's a difference. Let me explain it to you..."

Martha pushing buttons again, tsk, tsk, tsk.

Rhodri

@Martha So it is (now ;-). I must be distracted if I'm ignoring the flyspeller.

MrHen

15:32

@Rhodri Ack, and like two or three other problems.

Rhodri

@MrHen That's one of my besetting sins as a writer, spraying commas to the winds.

RegDwight

Well, first of all, it could use some formatting. I'm too spoiled and can't parse it as is.

Rhodri

Sorry, I'm trying to do too many things at once. I'd probably better concentrate on the work I'm actually being paid to do for a bit.

Martha

Ack, Rhodri is using obscenities in chat! Somebody flag him!

Which is to say, I better go follow his example. TTYL!

Rhodri

No, no, it's fan dance, not a flag dance.

MrHen

15:36

Wait, when did peer pressure start doing good things to you?

Rhodri

a) I'm not a peer, and b) I'm not that heavy!

Robusto

@RegDwight — I love to see pedants and sophists go at it.

RegDwight

@Martha Hm, but if we flag him, he'll be forced to concentrate on that obscenity for at least 30 minutes!

Just ask Robusto!

Robusto

Black Flag (band)

Black Flag was an American punk rock band formed in 1976 in Hermosa Beach, California. The band was established by Greg Ginn, the guitarist, primary songwriter and sole continuous member through multiple personnel changes in the band. They are widely considered to be one of the first hardcore punk bands. Black Flag's sound mixed the raw simplicity of the Ramones with atonal guitar solos and frequent tempo shifts. The lyrics were written mostly by Ginn, and like other punk rock bands of the late 1970s and early 1980s, Black Flag voiced an anti-authoritarian and non-conformist message, in s...

RegDwight

They burned through 17 members in 10 years?

Robusto

15:41

Not exceptional for hardcore punk bands.

RegDwight

Yeah, not even remotely the record. Trying to find that Wikipedia chart....

Dammit, Guns N' Roses and Sugababes won't stop interfering.

Robusto

I'm trying to find a list of oddly prophetic last songs by rock artists, but with no luck so far. You know, like Lynyrd Skynyrd's last song was "That Smell" (i.e. the smell of death). I read a list of about 20 uncannily eerie prophecies like that one, but I can't find it on the Web.

RegDwight

stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-237555.html

stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-26090.html

@Robusto The best I could find so far.

Robusto

Thanks. As amazing as it is, Google can disappoint as well.

RegDwight

15:58

MetaFilter has a thread, too: ask.metafilter.com/14245/Ironic-Song-Titles

But anyhow, I gotta go in a few minutes.

Robusto

Well, I didn't expect you to by my search monkey.

But thanks for the effort anyway.

RegDwight

Nah, you got me intrigued, that's all. You intriguing nurse, you.

And now I'm out! Get the party started!

Robusto

16:23

Later.

Cerberus

16:42

Hai.

@RegDwight: Commodissimus sed irritissimus.

That might work. These are masculine adjectives.

Rhodri

Hi yourself.

Cerberus

(I know you don't actually need this, but translating keeps me off the street.)

Hi!

I like how I'm the Latin nerd cum evangelist here.

Incidentally, does "cum" require hyphens? And is it even used with persons?

Rhodri

I'm afraid my Latin has got rusty. It used to be my best foreign language.

Cerberus

Really!

The you must practice!

If you ever need to train your brain, find some E-L translation exercises with answers.

Rhodri

Sort of. I sing in church, in a traditional enough place to do the occasional Latin motet.

Cerberus

16:50

That is good.

Rhodri

Every now and then, someone wants to know what it means

So I fumble round for all the vocab I've forgotten and oblige.

Cerberus

Yeah I know the feeling.

Rhodri

That's a good idea, I'll have to look some E-L exercises.

@Cerberus What's the context?

Oh, sorry, I'm being dim.

Cerberus

Of my Latin phrase?

Rhodri

I think I see "nerd cum evangelist" most often with hyphens. I'm not sure if they're required.

Cerberus

16:52

I don't know: Reg beeped me when I was away, requesting a translation. I obliged without bothering to read what was going on. A very bad habit for a translator...

Ah ok.

Rhodri

(OK, I don't see that exact phrase often, but you know what I mean!)

Cerberus

I do!

And you would use it with people?

Rhodri

No, I don't think so. I can't think of a case when I would.

Cerberus

That's what I thought.

Rhodri

"cum" is a bit too specialised to use just as "with".

Though it does appear in place-names, like "Chorleton-cum-Hardy"

Cerberus

16:54

Yes... though "with" wouldn't have worked either.

Rhodri

You're right.

Cerberus

I'd use "cum" with things, like rooms in a house: attic-cum-den or something.

Maybe not that, but you get what I means.

Rhodri

I guess the modern idiom is "slash" or "stroke".

"Attic/den" prounced "attic slash den"

Cerberus

Yes. Though you would use those with people too...

Rhodri

Yeeeees.

Cerberus

16:56

I still see cum occasionally.

Okay scratch that!

Rhodri

You're not making this any better, you know.

:-)

Cerberus

Arg!

I am trying to stick with Latin words, and even then I fail.

Rhodri

I assume that was you, @Reg?

Cerberus

Bastard he is!

Rhodri

Twas ever thus.

RegDwight

16:59

Huh, what? I'm not even here.

Cerberus

Lies.

RegDwight

Nonono, I'm really absent.

Cerberus

Brb.

RegDwight

See? I'm not even logged in!

Rhodri

Gah. I lost track of time. Now I have to absent myself.

Bye folks.

Cerberus

17:14

Bye!

JSBangs

17:28

ha! that's one way to beat the rep cap: have ArthurRex award you one of his useless bounties

and i was wondering why my rep went up by 100 all of the sudden

Cerberus

17:40

Nice.

Dinosaurs tend to shake up existing structures.

MrHen

20:18

2

Q: Having or eating one's cake

Which is it? "You cannot eat your cake and have it, too," meaning you can have it or you can eat it, but once it's gone there's no cake left to eat. "You cannot have your cake and eat it, too", meaning, as I understand it, you actually own the cake, so you can eat it if you want to. A brief ...

phrases

Is this a rant or dup? Seems likely to be either but I cannot tell. Another opinion would be great.

Martha

20:30

My immediate first thought was also "this must be a duplicate", but I couldn't actually find this question already asked.

As far as the phrasing, yeah, there's a whiff of ranting about it, but that may just be my interpretation. In other words, I don't think it's a problem.

psmears

There's been some discussion of that phrase, but it was in some comments

55

A: What does it mean, 'Chuck Norris can lead a horse to water AND make it drink'? Why is it funny?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" is an English proverb. If you want the horse to drink, the most you can do is lead it to water; after that, the horse drinks only if it wants to. More generally, the proverb is used in the senses of "there's only so much you can do" or ...

MrHen

@psmears Ah, that's what I remembering. Thanks

MrHen

21:01

What is the best way to handle an incorrect answer? (Or, at least, an answer I strongly disagree with?)

psmears

21:19

It depends... the best options usually tend to be "post a correct answer", "post a comment tactfully pointing out the error (preferably backed up by references)", and "hope that someone else does the above". There's downvoting too of course, but doing that without commenting as to why is bad karma...

MrHen

@psmears Thanks.

psmears

@MrHen (if you want any advice less vague and wishy-washy than that you'll have to add some specifics :) )

MrHen

Arg, so much work for someone else being wrong.

1

A: When is a person called a "lightning rod"?

It generally means that a person is perceived as combative, divisive and or an antagonist. An irritant so to speak.

That was the answer that prompted the question.

As far as I know, it means no such thing. (I could be wrong.)

Cerberus

If you feel you know enough about the subject and you consider it truly wrong, from any possible perspective, just vote it down.

psmears

I agree that that answer is wrong, though I think I can understand how someone might believe that, if they've only heard it in contexts like "so-and-so is a real lightning rod for conflict, he's the centre of every argument"...

Cerberus

21:23

Just a bit off but generally somewhere vaguely around the right direction would just get an ignore from me. I only vote down answers when they are truly misleading. But you should just follow whatever rule you like for your own down-voting.

MrHen

Well, in that case I just added a comment with no downvote.

Cerberus

Excellent.

MrHen

I do periodically run into other answers which is why I was more curious

That particular case isn't really a big deal.

Cerberus

Right.

MrHen

I just like to get a vibe for typical community responses. :)

psmears

21:26

Yep, I tend to be cautious with the downvotes too... if it bothers me enough I usually leave a comment with either a reason why it's wrong, or at least asking for a reference to back up their assertion... then if there's no response after a day or two (and the question hasn't already been downvoted into oblivion) I'll put the boot in...

Cerberus

Well I usually don't see many down votes; I think most people just ignore low-quality answers unless they're very wrong, or wrong in an unsympathetic way.

MrHen

I've also noticed there are some people that seem to always post answers I have problems with...

psmears

I think it adds value to the site to draw attention to wrong answers - but it has to be in a constructive way

Cerberus

Right. A comment and a chance to improve the answer are always better than a simple down vote, but a down vote is better than nothing in some cases.

MrHen

@Cerberus I think the site is currently too upvote happy. Unless it is a brand new user I downvote questions and answers I think are useless or incorrect. (With an explanation.)

Cerberus

21:28

@MrHen Well, that seems fine; use your own discretion.

Now you've left me wondering who this user is you usually disagree with...

But I suppose it would be bad manners to name him here.

If it should be @Robusto, you're out of luck.

Hehe. But I bet it isn't Rob.

MrHen

@Cerberus No names. Also no comment on how many there are.

Or how many heads they have. ;)

Cerberus

What! Heh.

MrHen

Nah, it isn't a big deal. I just find it strange how some people consistently say something I do or do not agree with.

Cerberus

I sometimes disagree with the hard-core functionalist answers you will often find here. But I still think they have a point in a way, so I won't down-vote them.

But if someone should answer "sure, using pls in an e-mail to your profesor [sic] is fine", then yes I will happily vote it down.

Not a real quote, by the way.

MrHen

Haha

To be clear: I am not taking most of the upvote/downvote thing super seriously. The rule of thumb: Is this helping? Is this hurting?

Seriously as in, tearing out my hair. Not seriously as in, I should care about this.

As in, I do care, but not enough to tear out my hair

Arg.

Words. They don't work always.

Cerberus

21:36

Haha well you were still understandable.

I head to read that only twice.

MrHen

Here is an example of me disagreeing with F'x:

14

A: "Extirpation" vs "Perdition" vs "Smash"

The meanings are certainly not the same, nor even “almost” the same. perdition is the most peculiar of the three, meaning “damnation”, “hell” or “doom”. It is a name, with no corresponding verb. Extirpate is a verb, completely synonymous with eradicate; it implies complete destruction. Smash, l...

So it happens.

Cerberus

Hmm well your disagreement doesn't seem to be very fundamental.

I think you could use "smash" either way.

psmears

Often comments are the best solution... much more so on this site than on (say) SE.com... because often the answer is "there are several common views on the nuances of this word".

Cerberus

As in, "my hopes were smashed/shattered by her contemptuous attitude".

MrHen

@Cerberus Yeah, I guess I used that example to also clarify: Most of these are petty. Hence me pinging for the typical behavior.

Cerberus

21:45

@Psm: Agreed. Most questions are not about countable or binary facts.

MrHen

@psmears Yes, good point.

Cerberus

@MrHen: Cool, then long live pettiness!

MrHen

@Cerberus Heh, what can I say? I am a petty guy...

Cerberus

Oh you wouldn't believe how often I disagree with small details!

Sometimes I feel the urge to add "side notes"; at other times it turns out I was wrong.

MrHen

@Cerberus Wait, are you implying I could be wrong?!

Cerberus

21:47

@MrHen: Never! I != you.

MrHen

@Cerberus Whew. Anyhoo, I am off. Thanks for entertaining the questions/thoughts. :)

Cerberus

Ok later!

I am starting to appreciate Luise Adolpha Le Beau (1850-1927). Never knew there were such good female composers.

I mean, most of them didn't get as much chance; and I probably forgot some major female composer whom I like but who remains comfortably hidden in my subconscious.

MrHen

@Cerberus I sort of felt like leaning on you a bit and making you sweat the no-really-I-am-not-sexist bullets but you were nice to me earlier so you get a break. :)

Cerberus

Haha aww.

Well I am remarkably insensitive to accusations of sexism and other discrimination, so you may have a go at it if you like!

Anyway, if anyone should be in the mood for a bitter-sweet song about corn flowers:

►

Oh, Blumen und Heidekraut...

I don't know this Wiebke Hoogklimmer but I really like her voice, and she has a Dutch last name.

Alain Pannetier

22:05

Good evening everyone !

Cerberus

Welcome!

Or, as the Chinese restaurant around the corner says, well come!

Alain Pannetier

@Cerberus, regarding your comments about the methodology employed in various studies about English loanwords, I got hold of an electronic copy of one of the books mentioned by wikipedia and I was wondering whether you would be interested ?

Cerberus

@Alain: Oh, yes, I would! Thanks. Do you know where I could get it?

Alain Pannetier

I can probably upload it it on my public dropbox account and that would be available for you to DL.

I'll give it a try and send you the URL if you want.

Cerberus

Oh that would be great! Unless you got it from another location where it can be downloaded? I have access to most academic sites through my university.

Alain Pannetier

22:14

I have it at home in paper (this and a few other ones - I really miss my books) but I could get a copy yesterday night from P2P (emule). If you're not unfamiliar with this kind of grey zone way, I can also provide you with an edonkey URL.

Cerberus

Oh, please do. Or I could Google for it myself, if you give me title and author? I don't feel particularly guilty as I can probably get it in paper from the library as well. In fact, that might be the best idea. What is the book called again?

Alain Pannetier

Origins Of The English Language A Social & Linguistic History by Joseph M. Williams.

I can't afford to carry paper books with me. My method of reading is to hop from one book to the other. I can remember of very few books I really read from cover to cover. The huge "The Normans" by Jon Julius Norwich is probably the only one actually.

BTW. What university are you working in ?

Billare

Allo, all.

Alain Pannetier

Hello Billare. Nice to "meet" you. From Tunis to Boston, there's quite a hop !

I just saw you answer on Nitty Gritty. Have to peruse it again. Thanks a lot.

Cerberus

Cool, the book exists about 500 meters from here.

I might pick it up tomorrow.

Billare

22:30

Heh, nice to meet you to, @Alain. Wow, Tunis?

@Alain You do travel everywhere.

Cerberus

Hi Bill.

psmears

@Alain: Were you there during the revolution?

Alain Pannetier

In Panama !!! I had left one week earlier, really wondering how close we were from the explosion and whether I would find my house in rubble or not.

I live in Paris, but I've had this assignment in Tunis since April last year.

Billare

@Cerberus I would really prefer to be called Billare, not because I have anything against informality or pet names, but I just dislike the nicknames Bill and Bob and such

@Billare I am no Bill :)

psmears

Heh - know the feeling: I'm in Egypt at the moment, living in Alexandria - but we happened to be in Luxor when everything kicked off over here

Since it was much quieter there we decided to stay put for a couple of weeks

Fortunately when we got back our flat was entirely intact!

Cerberus

22:35

@Bill: Fine I'll call you Billybop then, ok?

Alain Pannetier

@Cerberus, the chapter about the Norman influence is chapter 4 and the author has explained in great detail his methodology.

Cerberus

@Alain: Okay interesting!

Alain Pannetier

@psmears, so you could see things from pretty close then !!!

Billare

@Cerberus LOL. How do you like "Clifford"?

@Cerberus Ahh, you're not American, I'm not sure you would get that...

Clifford the Big Red Dog

Clifford the Big Red Dog is an American children's book series first published in 1963. Written by Norman Bridwell, the series helped establish Scholastic Books as a premier publishing company. Clifford was the runt of the litter, and was chosen by a city child named Emily Elizabeth as her birthday present. No one expected Clifford to grow, but Emily Elizabeth's love for her tiny red puppy changed Clifford dramatically. Before long, he was over 25 feet (7.6 m) tall, forcing the Howard family to leave the city and move to the open spaces of Birdwell Island. The characters * Cliffo...

psmears

@AlainPannetier We got back to Alexandria just before Mubarak stepped down - which was great because we got to experience the street party that ensued

Alain Pannetier

22:38

@Billare are we talking about the Clifford my son is mad about ?

Yes I can see that !!

psmears

Before that we didn't see a great deal - the most excitement we'd see on a typical day in our flat near Luxor was two donkey carts struggling to pass on the narrow road...

Cerberus

@Billa: Ah, I didn't get that, but I will call you Cliff then...

Billare

@Alain If your son is mad over the big red Clifford, yes ;)

Alain Pannetier

@psmears, I went several times in Egypt and always wished I could saty longer. You should consider yourself very lucky indeed !

psmears

@AlainPannetier We're here for a year (half way through) and believe me we do consider ourselves very lucky indeed!

Billare

22:40

@Cerberus Do you know what would be really useful? A naming Stack Exchange. That is, an SE that you can ask about the etymology of different surnames.

@Cerberus I have found it impossible, outside of Wikipedia, to get reliable information on even basic things.

Alain Pannetier

He's like me he prefers CBeebies programs to French programs and when in Latin America he gets to see the same programs in Spanish and that does not seem to worry him to much !!!

too much. Let's blame the keyboard again.

Cerberus

@Billa: It would certainly be useful... but I don't think there'd be many people who would know such things!

psmears

I have to go... good (insert appropriate time of day) all!

Cerberus

Bye PSM!

Alain Pannetier

Bye for now then. Nice to meet you as well.

Cerberus

22:44

@Alain: Do you know that you can edit previous chat lines if you are within 1 minute or so?

Hover over the line, click the arrow on the left.

Alain Pannetier

No I didn't. Thx. That's very useful in my case.

Billare

@Cerberus I don't like one functionality of the edit thing...it won't let me edit the text directly in the top window...I have to do it in the bottom window. Which is annoying.

Alain Pannetier

Works !!

Cerberus

Congrats!

@Billa: Hmm I suppose that would make more sense... but I don't find the current way terribly annoying...

Alain Pannetier

I also wanted to let @Kosmonaut know that I withdrew my answer about Dexter. He was right about the drop of Copula. There was only one in the examples and I jumped to conclusions. No regrets.

Billare

22:48

What question was this?

Alain Pannetier

@Billare, you're testing my proficiency at this chat tool. Aren't you ? ;-)

Billare

@Alain The Markdown is pretty useful, it will convert your copy-and-paste links into nice summaries.

Alain Pannetier

9

Q: Do people in Miami really talk like they do in the television series "Dexter"?

Hello everyone, as I'm far from being good English speaker, I use to watch series to improve my skills. I'm fan of various genres, from Star Trek to How I Met Your Mother and I can say until now, I felt "aligned" with it, meaning I knew why such and such grammar was used, when it was slang, shor...

usage grammar dialects

Wow !!! I'm impressed !!!

Billare

@Alain Wow, you deleted an answer that IIRC you got a lot of rep for. Did you get a Disciplined badge? What was Kosmonaut's comment, BTW?

Alain Pannetier

Basically, I thought the dialogues were a pretend AAVE and I was not very good at upholding that opinion. That really smelt made up arguments. More to be ashamed of than proud of.

Billare

22:54

That's alright; but what did Kosmo say? His rebuttal must have been interesting.

Alain Pannetier

@Kosmonaut spotted that quite smartly and I knew he was right...

Basically he pointed at the fact that the dropped words were not in a "copula" role. That is there were not link words.

He said for instance that "to be" as an auxiliary is not in a copula role. Right.

He said that "you" cannot be a copula. Right - at least in the example given.

In addition, the other oddities regarded past tenses. And in this area AAVE has very strict rules. And they did not match...

Billare

I see...

Can't you still see the answer?

Alain Pannetier

I'll try

Billare

No, it's not that important.

I wasn't sure if you were aware that you could though.

Alain Pannetier

Yes, grayed. So I believe I'm the only one (I mean with mere mortal powers) to be able to see it.

The exat quote from @Kosmonaut was: ""Dropping of the copula" is not what you think it is. The copula is a specific linguistic notion. In English, the verb "to be" (when used as a main verb) is the copula. A word like "you" is not even arguably a copula. In "you tell her?", the copula is not being left out, but rather did; in "you fighting", are is used as an auxiliary verb to conjugate the present progressive, which is also not a copula use.

Billare

22:59

@Alain Nope, mods can too, I think. And users with reps over 10K.

Alain Pannetier

Still some way to go then ;-)

Billare

@Alain Ahh, but you are steamrolling. You are the 2nd ranked "newest user".

@Alain Congrats!

Alain Pannetier

Are you the first ?

I'll have a look !

Billare

@Alain No way! Stan Rogers is the first, and he hasn't visited since the 15th of March. His rise was meteoric. I wish he'd still answer a few questions, he knew alot

@Alain You are third, Callithumpian passed you today.

Alain Pannetier

I saw that page !!! I'll have a look at what that user had to say...

This forum is kind of addictive. You must have gathered how much I like to discover things about languages. I learn a lot here...

Billare

23:04

@Alain Yeah, I love the comments of this site especially. You learn alot from the highest ranked ones. I love how they have a mechanism that promotes hiding stupidity. It seems so banal yet it makes a profound difference in quality.

Alain Pannetier

@Billare, what do you mean ?

"promotes hiding stupidity"

Billare

@Alain Because people really have to strive to be seen, via the mechanism of upvotes, it promotes useful comments over banal, "wow, that's so great" "that's awesome" comments.

@Alain You know, in how comments "fold up"?

Alain Pannetier

I see. And I agree.

Billare

@Alain There is a theory in the United States, called broken windows theory. It was controversial at one point, when our mayor New York City Rudy Guiliani invoked it when he wanted to clean up the crime in that city.

@Alain His point was, dirty windows create the conditions for crime. People said, "pah", crime comes from uneducation and poverty, not grime. Well, this site has convinced me that broken windows is largely correct.

@Alain If you don't ruthlessly delete bad questions, bad answers, you can't have excellent quality discussion like we had here. I would never such a thing was possible on the Internet before discovering SE.

Alain Pannetier

@Billare, do you mean "zero tolerance" theory. ? I'm a very tolerant person (I have to considering all the mistakes I still have to make ;-) so I'm not sure I agree.

The thing that I dislike most is when people behave in a "territorial" way.

Billare

23:14

@Alain I don't think its intolerance. You don't have to be rude about why you're closing a question. RegDwight is always polite. I just think this tendency to be overy social in inappropriate forums is a universal human tendency, and good organizations protect ourselves from our weaknesses.

Alain Pannetier

I don't like 10 people downvoting a single question. Looks like lynching to me.

Billare

Broken windows theory

The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the normsetting and signalling effects of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that monitoring and maintaining urban environments in a well-ordered condition may prevent further vandalism as well as an escalation into more serious crime. The theory was introduced in a 1982 article by social scientists James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling. Since then it has been subject to great debate both within the social sciences and in the public debate. The theory has been used as a motiv...

Alain Pannetier

@Billare, put this way. I do agree.

Billare

@Alain I agree with that; there's rarely a need to downvote to more than -3 or -4 or so, I only do it if a user shows he really doesn't care

Alain Pannetier

I've seen many rundown places in various countries turned into pleasant neibourhood after huge rehabilitation programs.

Billare

23:18

@Alain Right, I think part of rehabilitation must be physical rehabiliitation of the neighborhood, not just of the people

Alain Pannetier

@Billare Absolutely. If they have nothing, they have nothing to loose (simple arithmetic) and don't want to turn their mindset into a constructive one... Before I go to bed (it's past 12 here) I also take the opportunity to let you know how funny the list of "Sunday Christian" was.

Billare

@Alain Goodnight, Alain. 'twas a pleasure chatting with you.

Alain Pannetier

Same here of course. Let's see what's in store for tomorrow. Bye for now.

Cerberus

23:42

@Billa: I have my doubts about the Broken-Windows Theory...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…