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12:25 PM
whats that?
Looks like an exterior plug extender, to move it 3" to the left
2 hours later…
2:56 PM
I need to get a government grant to do some research. It's like free money.
"There is sufficient evidence that falling ice is physically harmful and measures should be taken to ensure that the public is not likely to encounter such ice."
"Effective public participation in and direct benefits from wind energy projects (such as receiving electricity from the neighboring wind turbines) have been shown to result in less annoyance in general and better public acceptance overall."
So if you build a wind turbine, people will be mad. If you pay them or give them free/cheap electricity, they will be less mad.
1 hour later…
4:04 PM
@BMitch They're doing it wrong. The female should go into the left plug. Infinite Power!
4:36 PM
Fun with units from the Toronto Star: "When the 65,800 tonnes yield (equal to one half the width of the CN Tower) ..."
So the CN Tower is 131,600 tonnes wide!
@ChrisCudmore link ?
Then they start whining about the Kiwis stealing market share. If you priced the damn stuff reasonably, I'd be buying local!
we went on a wine tour through ontario a couple years ago - wasn't very impressed with the taste of some of them
There are some damn fine wines from Ontario. But the equivalent quality is half price from the imports.
but, that was when i drank white exclusively - now that i drink red, maybe things would be different
stratuswines.com is my all time favorite but its $44 / bottle for the red
4:42 PM
Baco Noir is a good Ontario grape. Pinot's are hit and miss from everywhere, but I have had some excellent Ontario Pinots. We do best with the German styles - Riesling and Gewurtztraminer.
But for Pinot Noir, I"m really into the California Russian River region.
love a nice cab sov
buffalorising.com/2012/11/… nothings worse though then walmart opening a mile from your house though - blah
Yeah. Australian with BBQ, Chilean or Argentinian for a slightly milder meal.
I just ignore Walmart. Like it didn't exist.
better than nothing being on that property - that part of elmwood is a strait up shit hole - run down buildings, graffite, etc... but a walmart ? its adding insult to injury
Ok, just street viewed the intersection. Porn Shop, Donut shop, Vacant Lot and Non-descript strip mall. A walmart would be an improvement.
haha - i guess
5:02 PM
@lsiunsuex You can go take photos of the people of walmart now :)
oh god, kill it with fire.
why can't we get a photo video of women of Frederick's of holywood?
Good God. What's with all the crossdressers?
I'm just hoping that half of those are from Halloween
What happened to @TheEvilGreebo? He got Fanatic, then vanished.
Sometimes you actually have to produce at work.
5:11 PM
all i know is douche bag better accept my answer - i must have looked through 1000 recessed white / ivory oblong kitchen lights this morning
even cropped and rotated the light fixture to match others found on the stores to see if tinyeye.com would find it - nope - had to do it the hard way
Obviously, you have to remove H from G.
So H <---------- G.
How much trouble will I be in if I just use a bunch of foil tape and tape the exhaust duct from the bathroom exhaust fan up to the screened gable vent?
@Aaron You will be grounded for a week.
5:21 PM
Cutting into the eaves from the outside to add another vent in that area is just logistically difficult
Depends on which way the wind blows
What about cutting a hole higher up on the gable?
There's two G's in those instructions. One is the rim, the other is the wire.
Also, if I just lay the insulated flex duct on top of the plywood attic flooring on its way to the vent, that's probably fine
@Tester101 the problem is getting access to that area from the outside
@Aaron How far is the run?
G might snap into F holding H in place though i think - the diagram is wrong probably, F, then H, then G
5:24 PM
There's two F's as well!
Maybe 15 feet
Q: new light fixture1 lbk 1 wht 1 mteal ground to green screw. Walls 2 switches, ceiling has 2 black and 2 white. How to connect?

kenIm trying to install a new light fixture in the front hall. Current light is activated by 2 switches (on each end of hall). The NEW fixture has 1 black wire and 1 white wire. The ceiling wires have 2 black and 2 white coming down. The OLD single light has the 2 wires connected separately by a lit...

and the straight up roof vent is not an option, due to the slate roof
i like that he basically repeated the title at the end of the question - it helped with emphasis
@Aaron What about a hole lower on the gable? You could use a hole saw from inside the attic.
5:30 PM
And then how do I put the vent cap on?
Boy, you want everything, don't you.
Wait... Didn't you just get a sweet ladder?
Get your @ss up that ladder.
Indeed I did, it gets me to the gutter line, but there are no gutters on the eaves side, and that area of the house has a fall off on the ground slope
@Aaron You can probably get away with putting it out the gable vent, as long as that is not the side where the prevailing winds come from.
I'm tired of 3-way switch questions. Haven't we covered them well enough yet?
We really just need to make a good question with all the different wiring diagrams - power entering at light, at switch 1, at other location, and make them so simple that anyone can understand them
5:39 PM
blog post!
omg, almost forgot its PUT today
and then I don't know what that one is about other than to show you multiple lights I guess
The problem with a lot of those questions is that people don't stop and think before
Like the contractor we had for the kitchen, he screwed up the 3-way for the overhead lights, so that it was switch 1 controlled the whole circuit and then switch 2 only switched them on and off if switch 1 was on
You mean like this?
@Aaron Sounds like he used 2-ways.
No, they were 3 way switches, he just had the travellers hooked up completely wrong
@ChrisCudmore that's a good post, but it's much too abstract for some people to understand
5:46 PM
testers post is more about differences between terminology i think
we need a post on how to actually do it
They edited it, and deleted my comment. It now says "When the 65,800 tonnes yield (equal to one half the weight of the CN Tower)"
Because CN Tower weight is such an intuitive measurement.
post another comment on how much weight that is in elephants - maybe they'll edit it again
Indian or African? There is a difference.
Indian - their farther away, so if anyone questions it and goes to weigh one, it'll take longer for them to get there
But African Swallows are non-migratory!
5:56 PM
@Aaron You mean like this answer?
A: How do I convert a light circuit with a single pole switch to use two 3-way switches?

BMitchSince the red wire is already being used for the outlets, you'll need to run a pair of 3 wire cables from the existing switch box to the location in the garage where you want these light switches. This is what you'll likely have to do: Here are some other options: Image Source

@Aaron What do you mean, this isn't clear to everybody?
@Tester101 Too many nested ifs.
I probably should have linked the switches inside the 4-way, to show that they don't work independently.
I'd also go with one center contact.
Also, I'd re-do this picture to make it linear. It's a bit confusing following the wires between the two 4-ways.
@ChrisCudmore I was trying to prevent the image from getting too wide, so it wouldn't get squished.
@Tester101 Yes, I understand that. But you sort of lose the top -> top -> top -> top topology of the wiring.
6:11 PM
Yeah. I'm sure it's not really clear. But I just don't feel like fixing it.
@Tester101 That mentality is what keeps me employed. :)
I'm confused by this.
Q: How do I wire a new ceiling light with power to the ceiling and 3-way switches?

kenI'm trying to install a new light fixture in the front hall. Currently, the light is activated by 2 switches (on each end of hall). The NEW fixture has 1 black wire and 1 white wire. The ceiling wires have 2 black and 2 white coming down. The OLD single light has the 2 wires connected separately ...

If you are replacing a fixture, wouldn't you simply disconnect the wires attached to the old fixture?
Why would you disconnect everything in the box?
Because that's the way he rolls!
6:33 PM
@Tester101 Because he's in the category of people that shouldn't be working on electrical wiring. He thinks he knows what he's doing, but doesn't.
@BMitch I think I'm in that category too.
@Tester101 in that case, we're all screwed. :)
7:34 PM
WTF. Who the heck ever uses BOTH tape AND dope??
Q: What goes on threads first: tape or dope?

Matthew PKShould the dope be applied directly to the male threads or should the tape go on first?

always thought it was 1 or the other
My personal preference has been tape for fixtures after the valve and dope for everything else, but there's no basis or logic that I'm aware of for that habit.
After the valve being things like shower heads and bath faucets, where they aren't under constant pressure.
yeah, I use tape for that kind of stuff
I think I really only use dope on 1" and bigger fittings
except for plastic fittings I always use tape
wouldn't anything other then threaded fittings get solder though ?
Tape on water, dope on gas.
7:43 PM
yeah, tape/dope is only used on threaded non-compression fittings
I'm only talking about threaded
@Tester101 right - gas lines obviously don't have a blow torch and solder put next to it
So are all these personal preferences, or does anyone have some factual reason for one over the other?
@BMitch This is still my reasoning, but: For plastic, if it's too thick it can crack. It's very hard to control the thickness with dope, whereas tape is pretty exact
Tape on water, because I only need lubrication when making the joint. Dope on gas, because I want both lubrication for making the joint and anti corrosion protection.
I would only use dope on water, if I was using steel pipe.
7:46 PM
For >1" fittings, tape is just hard to apply. If you're threading them on really far the tape may be stretched and pulled out of position too much, while dope will spread and have better coverage
And on the "after the valve" stuff like you said, like shower heads, those things WILL be removed (to clean/change) every few years, and tape can be cleaned off, while it's practically impossible to remove dope
Threaded joints are tapered. The dope/tape just lubricates the threads, so the pipes can be joined tighter. It's not there to seal the joint.
In fact, with brass to brass threaded connections (the first time) you don't need any tape or dope.
Q: When should pipe dope vs thread tape be used?

BMitchFor threaded plumbing connections, you typically use pipe dope or thread tape (aka teflon tape). Are there situations when one is preferred over another? Does the size of the pipe, type of pipe, parting being connected, or other variable make a difference in the selection? Note, this assumes you...

Since there wasn't a question, I went ahead and made one. (Side note, I dislike the "messages being sent too fast, please retry in x seconds" errors.)
@BMitch Close as subjective/argumentative. The only people who know the answer died long ago, without passing on their knowledge. It's all preference/speculation now.
@Tester101 This calls for the mythbusters
Since we're already talking DIY and there seems to be a crowd, I'm kicking this off...
Welcome to Project Update Thursday
Given enough torque, all threaded connections can be properly sealed without any type of dope.
7:57 PM
There's at least one dope trying to apply that much torque.
@Tester101 I know the home depot plumbing department would love that answer
If your threaded joint is leaking, get a bigger wrench.
^-- there's your pipe dope
OK, Actual PUTing here. I installed two interior doors the other day. Much harder than you'd think.
So did anyone have any projects? Guests for the holidays are a frequent cause of emergency DIY projects.
8:01 PM
Carving Mortices by hand is definitely a skill that needs to be practiced.
@ChrisCudmore french doors?
Nah. One 6-Panel, and one 15-Light door.
The mortices were a bit easier on the 15-Light, as it was real wood.
But I had to call in the neighbour with his power planer as the frames were just a smidge narrow.
@ChrisCudmore THIS.
@ChrisCudmore Sounds like you needed a bigger hammer.
Interior doors from slabs is 733t level carpentry
8:04 PM
Thank God the neighbour is a tool geek.
I replaced every door in my old house with standard 6 panel molded hollow core doors
I made about every mistake in the book
Had to throw over three partially completed doors away because I screwed them up so bad
@maple_shaft So that means there are no more mistakes left. Achievement Unlocked!
I did notice though as time went on I got better and better, the quality of the doors improved from the first doors to the last
There should be a badge for making every mistake in the book.
bigger hammer!
8:07 PM
I'd hammer it.
seykota.com/tt/2011/Apr/21-30/default.html trying to read the article but i'm having a hard time focusing
Funny, she's really fit, but the hammer handle is still thicker than her arms.
Holy cow, what's she doing without a hard hat?!
8:08 PM
Who deleted that? Feeds? What a party pooper, this was just starting to turn into the standard construction site talk.
I have heard complaints from various females in chat about the extreme testosterone in these rooms... not naming names
They're free to post beefcake if they wish.
Lets just say if her name was in the dictionary, she would be on page 1
8:11 PM
And here I am posting about ponies being eaten by batman, Aarthi was only half annoyed. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7060089#7060089
Hopefully there isn't an angry SE employee out to get me now.
There. Equal opportunity.
That still looks nothing like a Habitat job site. Most of the guys there have hearing aids or they're kids playing with their iPhone.
now it would be sexist of me to also NOT flag this one
8:15 PM
I say leave it up
It's only fair to have a little reverse sexism now and then
Actually, it lasted longer than I thought.
Somehow I imagine when we are doing weekend projects that we all look like those guys in the pic above
So no one had any holiday catastrophes yet? My childhood was full of exploding ovens and backed up plumbing around Thanksgiving and Christmas.
My next DIY project is to assemble the Christmas tree, but that gets into decorating advice.
We don't have the clear start to the Holiday season you have. Thanksgiving is in October, and there's nothing in between.
There's Halloween :)
8:19 PM
Wow. I step away for 5 minutes, and there are half naked pictures everywhere.
Do we need a timeout?
Step away again. :)
well that didn't work.
Well. That died quickly.
@ChrisCudmore That's what happens when you post those types of images.
Nobody wants to look, until it has scrolled off the screen.
@ChrisCudmore I would have had a lot of pictures from the new house... not DIY its new construction but at least it makes it seem like we have exciting projects going on at home
Then post more! It'll scroll
8:33 PM
Good Afternoon mates
nice to see maple here. I actually made it two weeks in a row
@shirlockhomes hey... I think @ChrisCudmore had a mortise problem similar to the question you answered today
What is all this about beefcake. do I need to put my pics on? lmao
OK bring on the mortise questions
36 mins ago, by Chris Cudmore
Carving Mortices by hand is definitely a skill that needs to be practiced.
blah - she wasn't even naked. and i get banned ? :(
30 minutes is a LONG TIME
8:38 PM
@lsiunsuex Oh crap! That banned you?
sorry man
didn't realize that
happens i suppose
I swear I wouldn't have flagged it if I knew it would kick you ot
and yes, before i got married, i looked like the dudes in that photo - just not covered in motor oil
8:40 PM
back when I was a pup, all the hinge mortises were done by hand
@shirlockhomes I still do them that way
either way, time to go home and drywall - later.
Hell, I'm 60 and still look like that. lololololol
My wife agrees cause she always says "yes dear"
@shirlockhomes I don't think thats whats meant by washboard abs
@shirlockhomes What do you say, is there ever a reason to use PTFE tape and pipe dope together?
8:43 PM
I do a lot that way if I only have one door, but if i got a bunch I break out the jig and router. so much easier, faster and accurate
not really
not for water.
gas is different, oil dope only
2 to 4 winds of tape is usually all you will need
@shirlockhomes Given that I don't have a router, How do you recommend I do them?
Dope is ok for threaded galv pipe. 1/2 and 3/4 in Cu/brass only need tape
That's what I said.
1 hour ago, by Tester101
Tape on water, dope on gas.
So I've only been doing geeky projects lately. I have an Insteon keypad controlling (including dimming) some LED strip lighting under my kitchen cabinets. Ebay, $30 I think it was, looks awesome.
I outline the cut with a 1 or 1 1/2 in chisel, bevel in. then do slices every 1/8 inch.
8:48 PM
and I also have a light on the keypad that turns on when my garage door is open, and I can press it to open/close the door. Very handy 1) at night to see if I left the door open, and 2) right beside my front door, so I can open the garage without using the stupid code thing outside
then go back with bevel down and clean out the chips. then work it gentle, always with bevel down to control depth to clean it up and get the desired depthj
So, I may as well ask my question about the bathroom exhaust fan during PUT
Yay or nay about foil taping the end of the flex-duct to the gable vent
because the outside of the gable is not in an accessible place
Good question
not sure
I must have missed something, not clear what Aaron is asking
@shirlockhomes He wants to tape the end of the bathroom exhaust duct, to the gable vent in his attic. He can't reach the outside of the house to add a proper vent somewhere else on the gable.
8:52 PM
The gable vent can be an air intake depending on wind direction, you probably don't want humid air exhausting right there
Won't the hot air rise above the gable before it has a chance to get blown back into the attic?
it would be better than many methods of exhausting a bathroom, but far from the best.
never seen that done, and i'm sure it doesn't meet code unless it blocks off the entire gable vent. But then he loses that vent for attic ventalation
@shirlockhomes I actually did exactly that and the code inspector didnt even notice
thats not to say it isn't code
it it only covers part of the gable vent, the steam could blow right back in. also you should have a back flow valve
8:55 PM
I already have a power fan on the top part of the gable vent, I was thinking of putting this below it (and then taping up the rest of the vent area on the inside, so it's sealed
the valve is usually just a light spring return danper that stops outside air from coming back to the fan
There is a gable on the other side of the roof
I think code says exhaust has to be 10' from any intake. But I could be wrong.
@Tester101 that might be referring to combustion exhaust
I ended up just running vent right up to the hole where my attic fan sits up at the top of the roof. When the fan spins it blows the steamy air out, and when it doesn't it is cold enough that the steamy air just rises out of the hole
8:56 PM
ya, I think that is combustion exhause also
real ugly hack job
Ok, did someone star my question because it shows a complete lack of understanding of physics, or because it displays a brilliant understanding of physics?
Physics says it will rise, Murphy says it will blow right back in, and Murphy usually wins.
mitch is right
Not to mention it's a gas in a dynamic environment, you're going to get some blowback
8:59 PM
why is it so hard to install a vent cap?
Most of the fans I saw at home depot do have backflow valves, but that is right in the fan body
A little bit of moist air from a shower is not going to cause any problems if there is a little bit of blowback
@shirlockhomes because it's 2.5 stories above ground level, and the ground is very sloped on that side of the huose
yes, but a backflow on the cap is also required
9:00 PM
and then I have to cut a hole in the siding and then I have to caulk it appropriately
@Aaron whats the slope of the roof?
do you have wide soffits?
I've seen a roof start to rot because the insulation stopped 6" short of the roof and condensation formed on the vent pipe.
IRC 2009 M1501.1 Outdoor discharge. The air removed by every mechanical exhaust system shall be discharged to the outdoors. Air shall not be exhausted into an attic, soffit, ridge vent or crawl space.
@shirlockhomes no soffits
9:00 PM
Nothing about gable vents
@maple_shaft The roof is slate
Which is really really nice...... usually
i would give up or hack it if I were you
or call a roofer
sounds tricky for sure
9:01 PM
dont want to be trouncing around on slate
gonna need a 40 foot ladder unfortunately
with leg levelers
Don't touch the roof, it will last a very long time if you leave it alone. If you don't want to, get a contractor to climb up the side of your house.
I hate doing them myself, but a ladder sounds like the only way to do it right
put a couple of footing stakes in the ground
second question about bathroom fans: auto-sensing humidity sensors, yay or nay?
9:04 PM
never used one, sound cool, and expensive
I use a timer myself
Uh oh, more mods, is someone flagging posts again?
Almost got a whole album of my current full house rehab ready for you guys. before and after pics. I may do a blog on the project, ROI etc after the holidys
gonna have to have mitch or Tester help me get started on blogging it properly
Sounds like blog material to me
We'll help you out
Body Installation:

1-1. Construct the wood frame (not provided) with 30m square bar and attach
it to the ceiling joist.
w-t-f mate
I know you guys will. My wife has got all the photos organized.
been working on the "party pit" / "man cave" this week. lololol 50 inch TV should be here tomorrow.... Audio system working great.
9:11 PM
Oh good, I don't see Greebo around, he'd try to trash talk you for saying "man cave" :)
where is my sweetheart today? haven't chatted with her in months
I think she's been in hiding, we've been feeling abandoned.
@aarthi Doesn't love us anymore.
i allow women in my cave. lolololol
I'm crushed
Ever since she got promoted, she's too good for us.
9:13 PM
We all are, it's like we're no longer her favorite children.
when you guys talk to her on the hot line, red phone, tell her steve is heartbroken. hehehe
She doesn't even respond to the Aarthi signal anymore.
Well then, we're free to bring back the boobie pics.
spotlight in the night sky?
I hit her up, but she's been idle for a while. Maybe stuck in meetings again.
9:15 PM
Damn meetings. @shirlockhomes Next time you talk to Joel, let him know this is unacceptable.
well this is going to adversly effect her future boat cruises.
i haven't talked to him in ages
Aarthi got promoted?
we should get him to do a panel webcast
I'll act as the jay leno host. lmao
SE is like a gray box, I never know who's in charge of what
9:17 PM
Also, humidity sensing fans: do I really need to put in a switch in the bathroom, or just hotwire it and let it ride (and maybe install a switch in a box in the attic if I feel adventurous and need to turn it "off off" for some reason?
@Aaron Install according to manufacturers instructions.
bY all means, put a switch in line with it. control baby
But Aarthi is no longer CHAOS, she's part of the Community Team I think, which means something.
Maxwell Smart fought CHAOS for years
I personally was hot for 99
I really don't want to rip up the wall though - it's going to be enough trouble with the ceiling and I think there's already a power line there - the same one I think that feeds the attic power fan so it's a lot easier to just tap into that instead of running down the wall, putting in a switch, etc. etc
9:19 PM
We should give her a shoe phone award
@Aaron What size attic fan?
if you are goin gto be up in the attic, just fish a line down, not that mush work and you will have control if things go wrong
@Tester101 something like one of these:
one hole in wall cap, one hole in drywall. use an old work box. Done
9:22 PM
or just put on in a handy box under the unit.
@shirlockhomes the other problem with that is that I've got plywood nailed down all across the joists for storage area and it is a bitch and a half to pull up those sheets to look under them, and I don't know if the bathroom wall that has the light switch for the vanity lights is under that sheet or a different sheet
@shirlockhomes under? you mean like in the ceiling right next to it? not sure what you mean
Oh. I thought you meant a whole house fan.
we talking a bathroom fan or a attic fan? getting confused
I'm talking about a bathroom fan
I was saying t hat there's already a power cable up in the attic that is near that area that right now terminates where I installed the attic gable vent fan
and then tester thought I meant a whole house fan
if you have easy access to attic, at least put a switch up there so you can overide the fan if it screws up
9:26 PM
Yes, there is pull-down stairs
I use a circular saw on plywood to see what is underneath. lolololol
and it's all NAILED down
so it is a bitch getting it up
i cut out slots, they go back easily
@shirlockhomes Fine for you. When we amateurs do it, it necessitates YET ANOTHER trip to home depot.
sorry guys....
got a chuckle from Chris's comment
it is dark outside already..... i hate that
middle of the day and it's pitch black and cold out there
9:34 PM
@shirlockhomes So where are you going to retire? Florida or Arizona? :)
Thank God I'm headed to Florida in january
margiritas on Key West
not retireing completely yet. maybe a month in florida this year. wee what I can afford next year
@shirlockhomes And smuggled Cuban Cigars.
bring down the pearl and do some rum running
My pic is me on the flybridge of the Black Pearl
so, the 80 CFM, 110 CFM, and 130CFM fans are all $109.. the bathroom is small, but the 130 is only 1.3 sones
Go quiet.
Pump all available cash into quiet.
9:39 PM
now you all know why I'm never on thursdays during boating season. lolololol
@shirlockhomes Your driver looks angry. Lol
I'd be enjoying boating season too, if I could.
think he was scared
he had to have his pic taken driving. lolololololol
pay no attention to the guy with the beer belly.
Did you son take the SpaceX job?
More men without shirts. \
they hired half of the shuttle folks so he didn't get a job there. He is at FactSet Research right now. Talking with JPL as we speak... one position available at Cal Tech imaging center... see what happens
opps, soory for the senior porn. lmao
9:53 PM
Better than "People of WalMart" porn.
@ChrisCudmore I agree on the silent part, but I'm concerned because of the flex tubing in the attic that it will need more push to get the air out (bends, etc) so I'd rather go over than under, and even 1.3 sones rates quiet
@shirlockhomes I read that as "Senor Porn"
ah perfect, home depot.com allows you to buy online, and return in-store
(for things that are not stocked in stores)
kinda looks like me too.
I think that's a fitting end to this week's PUT
Thanks for joining this week's PUT
10:00 PM
night all
adios amigo

Project Update Thursday - 2012/11/29

2 hours ago, 2 hours 3 minutes total – 252 messages, 8 users, 6 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by BMitch


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