The Nineteenth Byte

lyxal

12:48 AM

me when the java is unsure

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Build the smallest self driving Car, Partial sums of Euler's totient function in sublinear time code-golf number-theory math restricted-complexity, Unique String Deletions

Bubbler

6:02 AM

hmm, new posts seems to be offline

lyxal

(cc @RydwolfPrograms)

Seems to be just rydwolf's bots that are down

Not his server

Yeah seems like everything on the rto hosted stuff is functional

mousetail

Beep beep, I'm @SandboxPosts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Do you win a Numeric Mahjong? code-golf games decision-problem self-validating restricted-source Background Numeric Mahjong is a hypothetical variation of Japanese Mahjong, played with nonnegative integers instead of Mahjong tiles. Given a list of nonnegative integers, it is a winning hand if it ...

Bubbler

heh

emanresu A

RIP 4-month uptime or something

lyxal

@mousetail new bot just dropped

emanresu A

6:13 AM

Apr 1, 2022 at 8:52, by New Posts

I tried.

mousetail

6:38 AM

@lyxal Holy hell

Simd

7:02 AM

@thejonymyster ties are allowed

I think there might be a linear time solution to my fastest-code challenge !

Simd

7:25 AM

hi @mousetail

Ginger

11:35 AM

@mousetail actual compilation failure

The Empty String Photographer

12:19 PM

@emanresuA photoshop?

mousetail

You can create these types of things much faster and more realistically with inspect element than with photoshop

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail ah yes. true

lyxal

imagine needing inspect element and/or photoshop

😎

The Empty String Photographer

@lyxal Imagine saying Imagine with a lowercase i

mousetail

Yea I just release a butterfly to shift the air currents to focus cosmic rays exactly at the part of your brain so you think you see a certain message

4

(using the emacs builtin of course)

The Empty String Photographer

12:29 PM

@mousetail Oh, I only need to click my fingers to do all that.

lyxal

y'all that's way too much work I just count to 11 and the messages change themselves globally :p

stackoverflow.blog/2023/09/18/…

> Congratulations to Stack Overflow user macxpat, whose answer to How to install Linux packages in Replit earned a Lifeboat badge.

thanks SE very cool

UndoneStudios

@mousetail those who control bits and men rule this land

mousetail

A politician in NL just accused the king of using chatGPT to write his speech

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

okay, those last 4 messages

lyxal

is that a universal ಠ_ಠ at all the messages or something specific?

Ginger

12:33 PM

effectively the last 3 messages before it by you and mousetail

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail The king thinks it is unholy to use ChatGPT. Why would anyone think that?

lyxal

20 secs ago, by Ginger

effectively the last 3 messages before it by you and mathcat

> mathcat

Ginger

brain failure, sorry

lyxal

this is joe biden's america

@lyxal anyhow, the funny here is that macxpat did not get a lifeboat badge at all

mousetail

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer Caroline (the politician) did acknowledge that the king doesn't write their own speeches so it might be the writing team

lyxal

12:35 PM

~~me on my way to check the King's speeches against the strong and weak heuristics~~

mousetail

I listened to the speech and I think it's very unlikely myself

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail I just accused a politician in NL for wrongfully accusing the King for using ChatGPT for their speech.

lyxal

one day you're just minding your own business then all of a sudden on the BBC the king says "regenerate response"

chat.openai.com/share/54105000-e4ea-40f4-85db-db65dd30079e

math scat

@lyxal ~~I am mousetail confirmed~~

lyxal

> One of the most pressing challenges we face is the global issue of climate change. The science is clear, and the evidence is undeniable. We must take urgent action to protect our environment and ensure a sustainable future for generations to come. I commit to working tirelessly to reduce our carbon footprint, promote renewable energy, and support innovative solutions to combat climate change.

the AI has perfected the art of empty text :p

UndoneStudios

12:42 PM

any extra feedback on this?

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Digits of Infinity (computing A206636) code-golfmath In this PDF, https://www.vixra.org outlines a way to find the last \$ n \$1, 3 digits of infinity and a method to do so. Let us define the infinity sequence2, taking the function \$ f(n) \$. \$ f(1) = 2^2 = 4\$ \$ f(n) = 2^{f(n-1)}\$ Starting f...

Ginger

1:32 PM

hey @pxeger

lyxal

tomatoes

Ginger

how'd you go about making the legal stuff for ATO? I'm working on a project and I'm not sure what I need to do legally for it

math scat

iirc a lot of it is copied from githubs tos

Ginger

IDK if I need a TOS tho

I'm sure I do for some legal reason ofc :/

math scat

surely

The Empty String Photographer

1:35 PM

@Ginger TOS stands for "terms of service" and dictates what users can and cannot do with your application.

Ginger

I know that

The Empty String Photographer

@Ginger But whether you need a TOS depends on whether you want to let users do whatever they want with your application.

math scat

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer what? I thought it meant tomatoes or sauce??

zoomlogo

@mathscat aww i wont get my tomatoes and sauce now :(

lyxal

me on my way to make an area 51 bug report because the whole system is just yikes

0

Q: Attempting to ask a question on Area 51 changes my profile picture

Every time I click the "Ask Question" button on Area 51 Meta (https://area51.meta.stackexchange.com/), it changes any profile picture I have to a default gravatar. Further clicks of the "Ask Question" button just generate a different default gravatar. I can't upload a video of it directly to SE, ...

math scat

1:41 PM

@lyxal lol what

Ginger

good lord

lyxal

@mathscat no clue why it's doing this

I found it by clicking "discuss proposal" on PLDI on normal A51 just to see what it would do

(the thinking being that it's not a proposal as so much a private beta site)

pxeger

@Ginger frankly idk if I need one either

there's just a small part of me that thinks writing in lawyer-speak makes me sound cool

or something like that

Bbrk24

@lyxal wtf

Rydwolf Programs

@Bubbler Seems it tried to log in and got 403'd on the login page ten times in a row

lyxal

1:44 PM

@Bbrk24 this is peak Area 51 efficiency

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms ruh roh

might that have something to do with the login flow changes?

lemme check if sechat still works...

Rydwolf Programs

...and it's been doing that constantly for hours it seems

Every two minutes for at least six hours yeah lol

Bbrk24

might want to kill it before it locks you out

lyxal

@Ginger why wouldn't it?

Rydwolf Programs

Okay perhaps a user agent issue?

lyxal

1:46 PM

seems to still be working for bots currently signed in. do you mean logging a bot out?

Rydwolf Programs

It's logging in that seems to be the problem

Ginger

seems fine

lyxal

@lyxal ain't no way it got reproduced on another machine

Bbrk24

Is Unit Tester one of your bots or someone who just happened to show up

lyxal

i love accidentally finding area 51 bugs :p

Ginger

1:46 PM

that's me lol

you can kick it

lyxal

@Bbrk24 it's a ginger (tm) bot :p

@Ginger actually you can't

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms sechat still works fine, so it's an issue on your end

Rydwolf Programs

Hang on I may have found the issue

lyxal

Rydwolf Programs

> <title>Just a moment...</title>

lyxal

1:47 PM

Unit Tester is literally unkickable

Rydwolf Programs

Seems some sort of redirecting stuff is happening

> Enable JavaScript and cookies to continue

lyxal

ohh might it be due to the fact that SE is changing its ips?

Ginger

@lyxal that's a new one lol

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms Ruh roh

Rydwolf Programs

I'm really not sure how your bots are logging in fine

They're doing full logins right, and not restoring from stored creds?

Ginger

1:49 PM

I think?

lemme verify, one seccy

lyxal

fair warning that this could be an SE problem

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/393110/… for example

that's not something you would expect to be broken

and a similar thing could be happening to the bots

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms yup

The Empty String Photographer

Ginger

full logins work fine

Rydwolf Programs

Okay this must be some sort of anti-spam thing or something

Because I get something different if I curl on the server vs. use FF on my own machine

Lemme try curling from my machine to see if it's IP based or useragent based

Bbrk24

1:52 PM

did NP get IP-banned

Rydwolf Programs

frick, curl works fine from my IP

math scat

oof

Bbrk24

~~try FF from your server~~

Rydwolf Programs

Wait hang on...sock² routes through the same server as NPSP

So I actually can do that :p

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms I'm using your server tho?

does my VM have a different IP?

lyxal

1:53 PM

@Bbrk24 doesn't seem to have

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger My home server, not my cloud droplet

Ginger

ah

Rydwolf Programs

Oh it would help if I tested this with the proxy enabled lol

Yep, fails now

Ginger

it'd be interesting if it were UA-based, since sechat doesn't use a standard UA

so they'd have to be specifically blocking curl or smth

Rydwolf Programs

It's not, it's IP-based

Ginger

1:56 PM

so NP got IP-banned?

Rydwolf Programs

wait no my proxy's just borked lol

Ginger

oh :p

Rydwolf Programs

> locsalhost

Might be it

Ginger

1337.0.0.1

Rydwolf Programs

Cloudflare

It took me to a cloudflare DDoS protection thingy

lyxal

1:57 PM

@Ginger at least not on main sites

Rydwolf Programs

Hopefully now that I've done it on this IP NPSP will be fine?

Ginger

NP DDOS confirmed?!

Rydwolf Programs

Okay it's still failing, hmm. Might be IP+UA based?

I could either try to manually do the cloudflare thing via curl, or somehow change my user agent to NPSP's in chrome

Okay I think I'm gonna have to work fast but I'll try to do it with curl

SOCKS works at too low of a level for me to be able to crack open the HTTPS to change the user agent

@RydwolfPrograms Okay nope that's not happening

Rydwolf Programs

2:21 PM

Too bad SE's probably already in my browser's HSTS

Ginger

~~hyperspaghetti transport system~~

Rydwolf Programs

I wonder what would happen if I tried a different site on the network as the login site

That'd mean I need to recompile tho, ugh

Ginger

imagine using a compiled language, couldn't be me

Rydwolf Programs

I'll just run it on rtowolf for now

Rydwolf Programs

2:34 PM

wtf and now it's still getting 403'd on my home IP

And now curl from my home IP doesn't work

VyxalBot may run into issues soon

Ginger

hmm

I wonder what's causing this?

Rydwolf Programs

Cloudflare

Ginger

since when has SE used Cloudflare?

Rydwolf Programs

Since whenever NPSP broke

Ginger

possibly related

someone at SE dun goofed while setting up Cloudflare?

but if that's the case, and this is a permanent thing, it doesn't look very good for chatbots

Rydwolf Programs

2:39 PM

I think this is intended behavior, just dumb behavior

The bots are, after all, indeed not humans

math scat

@Ginger ah, is SE doing stuff without informing anybody again?

Ginger

so it would seem

@RydwolfPrograms the question is if SE's actually trying to kill chatbots or if this is collateral damage from something else

ah, I found the post

SE's statement about this

pxeger

that's from 9 years ago

@Ginger this is definitely collateral damage

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Could you try relogging VB?

Ginger

@pxeger huh, so it is

Rydwolf Programs

2:42 PM

Ideally a second instance of it

pxeger

SE chat does not even cross the mind of the anyone at SE at the moment

Rydwolf Programs

Since if you try the primary one and it fails it's locked out for the time being

Ginger

I've never actually tried running two instances of VB at once, but ok

wdym by "relogging", btw?

Rydwolf Programs

Like having it log in from scratch

No stored cookie jar/fkey

Ginger

I can try, just a sec

does it have to be VB itself, or can I use a test program running under VB's account?

math scat

2:44 PM

@pxeger ~~we need a representative at SE for chat [riot]~~

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Either

Ginger

I'm going to use a test program

in Sandbox, 20 secs ago, by Vyxal Bot

eggs

seems to be working

Rydwolf Programs

1

Q: New cloudflare protection breaking important bots

Something about SE's DDoS protection or human verification must have changed, which has caused several important chatbots to no longer be able to log in. At first, curling /users/login from my home IP worked, and a bot hosted there could log in just fine, while a bot of mine running on a cloud se...

bug chat login captcha

Ginger

> also taking down VyxalBot, another bot run on my home server.

uh, no?

VB's fine

Rydwolf Programs

I wrote that before that turned out to be the case

I'm really not sure how VB's still good tho

What's its UA?

Ginger

2:48 PM

~~you know what happens when you assume~~

Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; automated;) sechat/2.0.0 (logged in as user 296403; +http://pypi.org/project/sechat)

mousetail

Have you actually got confirmation any actually imporant bots (like smokey) are effected? I wouldn't call your bots important

Ginger

Smokey's fine

Rydwolf Programs

They're important to CGCC and PLDI

Ginger

^

mousetail

No, we could always get the posts a few minutes later

not worth drama

Rydwolf Programs

2:51 PM

I'd call an important bot one that serves a serious moderation purpose. An unimportant bot would be like Snowpaw

It's not "drama"

Ginger

what's it matter to you?

mousetail

I object to the term "important bots"

none of these bots are important

Rydwolf Programs

Again what's it matter to you

Importance is subjective and a half

If this gets more attention on the issue being fixed what's the harm

I know you like to take every opportunity to argue with and cast doubt on the things I say but this really isn't anything you need to be concerned about

user

Apologies for this - I've escalated it internally and we're investigating what's going on. Thanks for bringing this to our attention! — Catija ♦ 16 mins ago

Ginger

well, at least things are happening

uh-oh

SE OAuth seems to be broken

Ginger

3:21 PM

does logging into metasmoke work for yall?

I'm getting a 400

...and now it works :|

of course right when I ask about it it fixes itself

ok, time to switch on the bot

oh wait, gotta make an account first

actually nah I'll use a testing one for now

Ginger

3:37 PM

bot is online

and now we wait

hey @RydwolfPrograms how does NPSP handle credential expiration?

I'm going to need to add something similar to sechat if I want it to really be bulletproof

actually, does it even have to?

I'm not sure fkeys expire

mousetail

4:17 PM

CMC Output all decimal integers except the number that comes immediately before a multiple of 10 should appear after instead (swap spaces). Eg. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 19...

Rydwolf Programs

4:44 PM

@Ginger They can

@Ginger Two hours is what I went with

It only really needs to be long enough that you don't need to relog for a quick restart

We've got a fix for your specific case coming soon but this fix won't necessarily prevent others from having similar issues - which may require some discussion internally. Thanks for the report! — Catija ♦ 1 hour ago

Whoa does this mean they're specifically special-casing NPSP (for now)?

Ginger

:O

~~special-case me too!~~

math scat

@mousetail for some reason this isn't trivial

Simd

CMC bash challenge. Make a random binary string of length 12 in bash

Bbrk24

5:00 PM

printf doesn't have a "binary" format specifier or else this would be a lot easier

Simd

yes!

cat /dev/urandom | tr -dc '0-1' | fold -w 12 | head -n 1 is my best go

The Empty String Photographer

@Simd Bash, 17 bytes: echo 111111111111 (Chosen by fair dice roll, guaranteed to be random.)

Bbrk24

@Simd Instead of fold + head, just do head -c 12

Simd

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer :)

@Bbrk24 ah!

Bbrk24

-n is lines, -c is characters

Simd

5:03 PM

thanks!

I hardly understand fold

Bbrk24

well strictly speaking -c is bytes but that doesn't matter for this purpose

The Empty String Photographer

echo £ | head -c 1

Bbrk24

or, since this is code golf, cat /dev/random|tr -dc 0-1|head -c12

Simd

@Bbrk24 better!

math scat

5:19 PM

@mousetail Vyxal, 16 bytes: Þ∞DvA*$ƛA¬*;ḢḢYꜝ. clunky mess

(111 bits with vyncode)

Bbrk24

Not sure if this is the shortest approach in Swift, but (0...).lazy.flatMap{($0*10)..<($0*10+9)+[$0*10+10,$0*10+9]}.dropFirst() works

math scat

@mathscat separates the integers into two lists, shifts one and interleaves them together. wonder if there's a shorter approach.

Bbrk24

Nope, that stalls. Is dropFirst() being eager here?

The Empty String Photographer

YES MY BOT WORKS!!!

Bbrk24

it stalls even without dropFirst(), so bad that ^C doesn't even stop the repl

The Empty String Photographer

5:27 PM

CMegaC: Make a programme that continues running even when the SIGKILL signal is sent to it.

Bbrk24

Okay it's the + in the callback that stalls it

hyper-neutrino

isn't that impossible

Bbrk24

it stalls the type checker, not the runtime

let x = (0...).lazy.flatMap { $0 ..< ($0 + 10) + [$0, $0 + 1] }.dropFirst()
error: repl.swift:8:5: error: the compiler is unable to type-check this expression in reasonable time; try breaking up the expression into distinct sub-expressions

hyper-neutrino

I thought SIGKILL couldn't be ignored or blocked and the kernel would just immediately kill the process with that signal

Bbrk24

That's why it's CMegaC

math scat

5:29 PM

what.

Bbrk24

> CMegaC: Chat Mega Challenge; usually a challenge posted jokingly in chat due to it being very involved or outright impossible.

hyper-neutrino

I'm just double checking if I remember correctly lol

math scat

@Bbrk24 ah right

The Empty String Photographer

Can you SIGKILL the kernel itself?

Bbrk24

5:51 PM

I don't think the kernel has a PID

mousetail

Kernel is the thing that handles signals

There might be a command to uninstall kernel modules at runtime though which is kinda the same thing

@mathscat Nice

Bbrk24

6:14 PM

Commenting trilangle "assembly" like

; <13>
    PSI #7
    DUP
    ADD
    DEC
; </13>

DLosc

9:45 PM

@mousetail Pip, 18 bytes: W UiPi+(9=Yi%t)-!y

Fun version using the swap operator, 22 bytes: Y\,ty@8::y@9W1P*y+t*Uv

DLosc

10:23 PM

@mousetail A first stab at it in FunStack: Flatten Plus Times 10 compose table #N Consr 9 Consr 10 From1 9

Better idea: Plus Consr 9 Consr 10 From1 9 flatmap Times 10 #N

Disappointingly, Concat From1 9 Pair 10 9 is the same length as Consr 9 Consr 10 From1 9, although I suppose it's more readable

Unrelated String

10:38 PM

@mousetail Haskell, 31 bytes: (+)<$>[0,10..]<*>[1..8]++[10,9]

awkward first stab at it in Jelly, 13 bytes: ‘µ‘%⁵=Ø.Iạ¹Ṅß}

lyxal

10:59 PM

@mousetail Vyxal, 10 bytes: Þ∞₀ẇƛ÷$W;f

7.5 bytes encoded

ATaco

11:23 PM

CMC: 3D Print "Hello, World!"

lyxal

@ATaco Vyxal, 6 bytes: kHDDD,

It has 3 D's in it just like you asked

Rydwolf Programs

11:56 PM

CMQ: Of the following Greek letters, which do you think is the most important/useful in a math/CS context likely to come up in TNB?

(I have one extra slot for a greek letter in CIMJ's shortlist of greek letters)

Γ (big gamma), η (eta), Θ (big theta), ϑ (vartheta), κ (kappa), ϰ (varkappa), Λ (big lambda), ν (nu), Ξ (big xi), ξ (xi), ϖ (varpi), ρ (rho), ϱ (varrho), Σ (big sigma), Υ (big upsilon), υ (upsilon), Φ (big phi)

I'm thinking probably big theta for big theta notation right?

Rho could also be useful

Or big lambda

lyxal

what's upsilon?

Rydwolf Programs

But the rest don't really seem like contenders

@lyxal Similar to updog I think

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