The mathematics and science behind Matter Modeling

sloshy

2:29 AM

unfreeze sprinkling antifreeze

uhoh

7:15 AM

@NikeDattani hi, got it!

from physics.stackexchange.com/a/442025/83380

from chemistry.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5143/16035 (temporary sandbox, will be deleted in the near future)

Hi @ScienceAJ to you question " I want to find the spectrum of faraway stars and near stars (Venus included). So what should I improve in this question?" and comment "I don't have any image of a spectrum" I think you have to break this down into several steps and work on them separately.

For analyzing images/photos of spectra, you can use any image to start with, you don't need to make one of your own.

For obtaining images of spectra from stars and planets, that's a completely separate question. I think that one nicely fits in Astronomy SE, something like "How can I get at least a low resolution image of the spectrum of a star or planet using a camera and diffraction grating?" You should mention roughly what kind of camera and grating you hope to use.

user561894

7:41 AM

Alright, @uhoh

user561894

My spectrum transformed through the python program will be like the 2nd image and I expect the camera to see an image like the 1st

user561894

There are 2 types of diffraction gratings known as Blazed diffraction grating and holographic diffraction gratings, I assume that the Camera must be really sensitive to light because the object, I want to observe is more than 0.1 light years (actually it is a protostar in a system named WISE)

user561894

Thanks a lot, @uhoh

user561894

Thanks a lot, @NikeDattani

user561894

I also want to observe the Venusian atmosphere though it's spectrum is available online

uhoh

9:05 AM

@ScienceAJ okay then, next question; is this a experiment you want to think about and plan in order to learn, or do you really want to try to DO it? If it's really to do, then I think you have to do this in stages experimentally.

For an Astronomy SE question you should include the name of the object and its visual magnitude. That will help answers address what kind of camera and/or telescope you're going to need.

Then you have to explain what it is exactly about the spectrum that you want to measure. Don't just say "spectrum". Do you need to resolve certain spectral features? If so, what are they?

user561894

9:33 AM

Thanks, @uhoh. I want to analyze it's spectrum to find from what elements is it composed of. I shall try it but not immediately like after a few months or so. It's apparent magnitude is 16 to 0.03 (i'm going to need a really large magnifier)

user561894

Thanks, @NikeDattani

uhoh

11:23 AM

You will need a very big telescope with a large aperture to collect light. In order for your question(s) to be taken seriously, it will be important to show a realistic goal, so while you can mention this object, your question should probably ask about recording the spectrum of the Moon, and then Venus (two very bright objects) first.

Then you can work incrementally down fainter and fainter stars once your technique improves.

Nike Dattani

5:31 PM

For future context, the above discussion is about this question:

2

Q: How do I get the wavelength of light from a diffraction experiment using Python?

What is the procedure after using a diffraction grating (device used to see the spectrum) using python? We would see the entire electromagnetic spectrum emitted by an object but what then? how do I measure the wavelength of the light using Python? I am expecting the diffraction grating to project...

@uhoh do you think you can write up an answer that summarizes all these comments? If he got an answer yesterday then it would have been his first HNQ on MMSE (he already got his first HNQ on Astronomy), but now it's probably too late to become HNQ. I took a look at his YouTube channel. I'm excited to see how it grows over time!

Tyberius

8:10 PM

Welcome to our new community! What digital information does the diffraction device give you? If none, then how is it that you think Python would help? — Nike Dattani yesterday

What specific data is being received by the digital camera? Isn't it the case that light from all wavelengths will be emitted? — Nike Dattani yesterday

@NikeDattani Yes, Light from many wavelengths will be received so I want mainly from which wavelengths is the light received in nanometers, the data received by the digital camera will be in the form of colors, and if there is any better option kindly suggest. There isn't any specific use for Python, it is just because it is easy to use — ScienceAJ yesterday

My worry is that you're going to get light from every single wavelength (within some level of precision), and unless the camera is also getting digital information about the intensities of lines for each of those wavelengths, there's nothing for the Python script to do. Also, when you say "the data received by the digital camera will be in the form of colors", you are basically saying that the wavelengths are already being obtained by the camera. In what format are the "colors" being received? RGB values from 0-255? Then look at this! — Nike Dattani yesterday

Thanks, @NikeDattani. Yes, You're right, Because the light is receiving from many wavelengths, thus it may be an source of confusion for the computer system. The diffraction grating would project the spectrum so The colors are being received to the digital camera, a part in the python script would give it the RGB values, then it would decode the Wavelength but I'm not sure how it will decode the wavelength and i'm not sure how it will differentiate between different parts of the spectrum — ScienceAJ yesterday

@ScienceAJ Welcome to Matter Modeling SE! This can be a great question (if you do some rewriting and include the explanations that you've left in comments) but I think it will have to be eventually migrated as it's not about modeling. There is no single amateur science site so it will take some time to figure out the best place for it. This site is incredibly friendly so I think it can stay here a few days while you improve it and choose a better site. If I understand correctly, you are going to take a photograph of a spectrum with a camera, then use a python script to analyze it. Right? — uhoh 21 hours ago

@ScienceAJ Theoretically Physics SE should be good for that, but that site, like many other high question rate sites can be a little impatient, so the question needs to be well-written before it might go there. There is also Signal Processing SE and Astronomy SE and Chemistry SE which deal with the fundamentals of data processing. Briefly, you need to load the image file with Python into a NumPy array, then calibrate it and project it from 2D to 1D to get a spectrum. — uhoh 21 hours ago

@uhoh I did some thinking about migration, and considered Signal Processing SE (see my chat message here, Electrical Engineering SE, Photography SE, Arduino, etc., but I think the answer might be in the SO thread that I linked in my last comment before this one. If the digital camera gets colors in RGB format, then we have some mixture of Red (~700nm), Green (~530nm), Blue (~475nm) wavelengths. I agree with you that OP needs to give more details about what they want, why they want it, what their desired final goal is, etc. — Nike Dattani 20 hours ago

@ScienceAJ calibrating wavelength is one task that can be done with known spectral lines from things you can find around you (wait for other answers on that) but calibration of intensity, or even flattening the intensity response will be more of a challenge, since your (presumably) color camera will not have a flat, panchromatic spectral response. That means this is going to be an incredibly fun experience! It also means that you may need to break this up into several different questions for different aspects of the problem. It will really help if you can include a rough photo of a spectrum. — uhoh 20 hours ago

@NikeDattani I disagree. The three color elements of a Bayer color filter are broad, overlapping and can be a bit ugly, cf. Fig 2. of open access Use of spectral characteristics of DSLR cameras with Bayer filter sensors or Fig. 26 in the Sony MX477 image sensor manual used in the Raspberry Pi HQ camera — uhoh 20 hours ago

@NikeDattani The linked SO question is about single wavelengths, not about calibrating a continuous spectrum generated from overlapping color channels. — uhoh 20 hours ago

here's an example of a color photo of a spectrum with grating over the camera's lens physics.stackexchange.com/a/442025/83380 Yellow/orange is sodium (presumably from trace quantities of salt in the water particles in the air) and the others are probably Swann bands from C2 molecules produced in the natural gas flame itself during combustion. — uhoh 20 hours ago

Thanks a lot, @NikeDattani. Sorry for the late response. I want to find the spectrum of faraway stars and near stars (Venus included). So what should I improve in this question? — ScienceAJ 14 hours ago

Thanks a lot, @uhoh. Sorry for the late response. I want to find the spectrum of faraway stars and near stars (Venus included). So what should I improve in this question? — ScienceAJ 14 hours ago

@ScienceAJ Theoretically Physics SE should be good for that, but that site, like many other high question rate sites can be a little impatient, so the question needs to be well-written before it might go there. There is also Signal Processing SE and Astronomy SE and Chemistry SE which deal with the fundamentals of data processing. Briefly, you need to load the image file with Python into a NumPy array, then calibrate it and project it from 2D to 1D to get a spectrum. — uhoh 21 hours ago

Nike Dattani

8:42 PM

Thanks @Tyberius . Just for others, in case they're wondering, the messages that Tyberius added just now were the comments on this post from before it got moved to chat!

uhoh

9:18 PM

@NikeDattani the question hasn't been edited, clarified or focused and is currently off-topic and subject to closer and possible migration, so it doesn't make sense to write an answer to a moving target, and summarizing a state of uncertainty does not a proper Stack Exchange answer make.

Once @ScienceAJ breaks this challenging project up into several smaller, incremental questions, and they find their way to suitable sites, I'm happy to add suitable answers.

Transcript for

The mathematics and science behind Ma…