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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

12:07 AM
@RadvylfPrograms Apparently gcc libc's free adds the block to a a free list
 
1:02 AM
Aside from the obvious stuff, any feedback?
Will get round to filling out the standard stuff at some point
 
@DLosc Great!
 
@Zionmyceliaadamancy The size limit only applies to the starting configuration, right?
 
@Bubbler Yes. A pattern can become arbitrarily large, so long as the starting config fits within an n x n square, and the final stage is fixed
 
Oh, and gliders can't appear in the end either?
 
No, gliders (and patterns of infinite growth/production) will never reach a fixed state on an infinite board
 
1:17 AM
Thought F pentomino could half-break the challenge but noticed the condition a second later :P
Now that is highly nontrivial :P
 
@Bubbler Only produces 5 gliders, basically works :P
Make that 6, I was only 700 generations in :P
 
Oh wait.. I think score >1 for n=2 is impossible
 
Yeah, n = 2 has to be a 2x2 still life
In which case, n = 1 has to be the empty board, which I'll be posting
 
and that makes p1=0 and p2=1?
 
@Bubbler Updated
And, for n > 2, I believe there always exists a config that results in p_n > p_n-1
 
1:35 AM
Hehe, I have p3=173
 
This is going to be a fun challenge :P
 
2:06 AM
whats little endian and big endian
 
@Seggan No, I'm pretty sure tracing garbage collection refers to how it's determined what's still being used, not how the unused memory is kept track of
 
i saw it mention in the newest challenge but i cant make any sense of it
 
There can be compacting or non-compacting tracing garbage collectors, and while this is technically non-compacting I guess, it's not really the normal way you'd do it from what I can tell
Which is why I'm asking what that method of doing it is called :p
I've used that sort of strategy a few times, e.g., in a world map storage format for a planned game, and a project where I implemented a stack and RAM directly on the brainfuck tape, and my typical assumption with things is "if I can come up with it myself someone already did fifty years ago and named it after the person who did it before them" :p
(A lesson I learned when I spent all day thinking of this super awesome way to encode things in a small number of bits, and it related to binary trees, and it was super cool, and then y'all were like "yea radvylf that's huffman coding duh")
 
2:26 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AdamFind the Caesar cipher shift [Description of Caesar cipher] Given a string which represents a sentence encoded using a Caesar cipher with some shift \$n\$, output a guess for \$n\$. (You can decide whether punctuation is included of excluded.) For example, if you take the word Happy code golfing!...

 
@AidenChow Big endian: 2048 is encoded as [2, 0, 4, 8]; Little endian: 2048 is encoded as [8, 4, 0, 2]
 
I've broken google
It gave me a ton of google books results, and that's it
And all I googled was "how docker networking works"...
 
@Bubbler huh so they just reverse of each other?
 
Yeah
It's just how they're ordered
 
then whats the whole strat about big/small endian??
 
2:35 AM
The advantage of big endian is that it's how we typically read/write it, but small endian is more convenient since digits[i] will always be the same power of 10 place regardless of the size of the number
E.g., [8, 4, 0, 2] and [6, 5, 2] both have their 1s place at index 0, 10s at index 1, ...
 
oh so its just to be able to use vectorized addition?
 
Well, addition wouldn't be super useful (carrying would need to be done manually, ick), but for any sort of digit-wise operations it's handy.
Although I'm having trouble thinking of good examples of when
 
@RadvylfPrograms ya that make sense
 
One advantage I guess is that the index in the array is also the power of ten the digit is multiplied by
 
3:14 AM
what the, i just post sandbox post but sandbox posts didnt put here in chat??
 
sandbox posts bot dead
feeds instead
feeds slow
it'll be here in about 15 minutes
Aug 19 at 8:16, by lyxal
These feeds are slow as bricks on a traffic filled highway
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Aiden Chowcode-golfgrid Optimally pop all the bubbles In a given 2d grid of numbers (representing different types of "bubbles"), there are one of two actions that you can do each "step". You can either: Pop an island (a connected group of bubbles) of the same type of bubbles, given that the island consis...

 
see
there it is
 
oh there it is
a bit slow lol
 
1 min ago, by lyxal
Aug 19 at 8:16, by lyxal
These feeds are slow as bricks on a traffic filled highway
 
3:18 AM
oh
why is bot fast but feeds slow?
 
bot checks all the latest posts at all times. feeds use RSS which only sends at certain periods
you'd have to ask Radvylf for the specfics
but that's a general overview
 
3:48 AM
@Zionmyceliaadamancy As I commented, winning criterion?
 
4:39 AM
@Zionmyceliaadamancy Maybe it's a better idea to start with n=2 with p2=1 yourself. There's no point in requiring some other user to post it
 
For the winning criterion, simply "when [some time period] passes without new answers, the last answer wins" sounds fine
 
5:21 AM
Makes sense
 
 
5 hours later…
10:15 AM
1 message moved to ­Trash
@WheatWizard Can you unfreeze The Nineteenth Bakery? chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/123853/the-nineteenth-bakery
 
 
2 hours later…
11:59 AM
Hmm, lyal?
oh wait, ldw
 
ldw time!
 
@Ginger Non-bot version is back?
 
eh?
oh yea
I got back into this account
so this is 100% real Ginger
 
You sure the bot hasn't anexed your other account too?
 
it better not have
Welcome to the sixth Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.
maybe I should set up a program to make this account post that message when the event starts :p
 
12:05 PM
@Ginger Don't do it, that's how it starts
 
i didn't do anything in flax lol
 
12:24 PM
raise BugException("There is a moth in your mainframe")
3
 
raise Bug("oops, typo")
Does this count as finishing the documentation:
> Learn SunSip: Refer to the Wiki
 
yes that is exactly what we meant thanks
 
Where is the wiki?
 
not there yet
LOL
 
12:45 PM
@mousetail Now it is there LOL
 
@NumberBasher You don't need to add LOL after every message LOL
 
dont be a hater some of us are very mirthful and jubilant :P
 
@mousetail Sure LOL
@mousetail I don't need to, but I want to LOL
 
@NumberBasher Anyway, seems a good skeleton but still I can't say anything about the language till you write something about it LOL
 
LOL LOL
 
12:48 PM
IDK, do you want me to do the turtorial or the cheat sheet LOL
I mean, which first
LOL
Nearly forgot (Reminds me of a certain episode of Pokemon I cannot name) LOL
 
Your choice LOL
 
well, I'll do cheatsheet LOL
 
maybe next lyal should be lolcats
5
 
hm
 
@thejonymyster sure LOL
@mousetail cuz cheatsheets can spare me my notsopoor english LOL
 
12:51 PM
Do you actually learn lolcats or merely experience lolcats
 
you bask in the glory of lolcats
(I'm assuming you mean LOLCODE)
 
yeah that one same thing
 
>._.<
perplexed cat or perplexed mad scientist, you decide
 
Need more cat themed esolangs
 
well it is ldw, what sort of cat langs do you have in mind :P
make your dream a reality
 
12:53 PM
stackcats and LOLCODE aren't enough? :p
 
how do you create a table with github markdown
 
PXLCODE, that LOLCODE spinoff that... sucked
 
@NumberBasher Same way as on SE, use | for dividing columns, and -s under the heading row
 
that one is in my top 20 most stupid software ideas list
 
12:54 PM
@Ginger oh what was it
 
me trying to make LOLCODE better (bc it hasn't been updated in years)
 
Is there a UWU code?
 
@mousetail saw that thnx
 
@mousetail we don't talk about that
 
Anyway, I'm building a language too github.com/mousetail/CellTail
 
12:59 PM
tail cell
that's pretty neat
well if we're talking about 2d langs, can't forget github.com/GingerIndustries/makina, where programs look like this:
 
@mousetail its like hes selling it lol
 
v >n1;  >n0v1nI<
>Iw>>O>>wv ;  C^
>JU>>O>>O>>I>?e
^v<U ^1n< ;9nO<
^nHC<<  vI<<v?Ov >n1;
^0^<v*+vv;vP<>oH>On0;
H;1nOC^O<^JJ0nC>wwv>C
^   S v+t = ;H  U>O+H
;1n< v+I>CJ S v<<<<v>n1;
^ SC<+Itv>n0; J ;1n<
^Uv<< v<>JOJ<O * ;
HC+v^<wn0v>>^<<
^n v  >>>;>v
^>JO0JO;J J<
;1n<
 
@mousetail ah, so whoever said something about it looking like a pseudo oisc seemed to have the right idea nice
also i almost said oeis lol
 
@thejonymyster I don't know what OISC means but probably
 
@thejonymyster Yep it is for sale LOL
 
1:04 PM
@mousetail one instruction set computer, instead of having many commands, you just have one command repeatedly applied with different parameters/args
(i might have that acronym wrong slightly)
 
Next step: Explaining implied type conversion
which means explaining THIS:
def implied_type_conversion(value, to_type, implied=True):
    from_type = type_(value)
    if type(to_type) == dict: to_type = to_type[from_type]
    if from_type == to_type: return value
    if implied: warn(f'IMPL TYPE CONV AT LINE {current_line+1}')
    if from_type == 'int' and to_type == 'float': return float(value)
    if from_type == 'float' and to_type == 'int': return int(value//1)
    if from_type == 'string' and to_type == 'character': return value[0]
    if from_type == 'array' and to_type == 'set': return set(value)
 
@thejonymyster It's something like that yes. There are no instructions, just patterns
 
yeah
its pseudo though since it seems the arguments to the rules are more complex than just like... positive integers or something lolol
 
Yea
you can put entire expressions in the patterns
even call functions
 
inb4 "Is single rule celltail TC?"
 
1:08 PM
@thejonymyster For sure, since rule 114 is
Actually LDQ I have a function system, but I'm wondering if I should allow functions to recurse? It would make the language more usable but also allow you to potentially avoid engaging with the whole cellular automata system
 
@thejonymyster you mean like x86 mov, which is turing complete by itself?
 
@mousetail it all comes back to what you want this new language to be used for
 
@Ginger indeedy i do (iirc)
 
do you want it to be more useful or more cellular automata-ic?
 
@thejonymyster cool!
 
1:11 PM
^^
 
I'd say no recursion, as you said that could defeat the point of the lang
 
@NumberBasher I want it to be useable but also have substantially different solutions than other languages
 
yknow what'd be neat? being able to embed polls into messages
3
 
im sure theres a userscript for that
 
Number Basher’s way of chatting heavily reminds me of Zyabin
just sayin’
 
1:12 PM
@thejonymyster about to say that lol
@RadvylfPrograms do it
@Fatalize who's Zyabin?
 
^^ :P
 
laughs in interrupting chat references
 
@Ginger A former member very active in 2016/2017, something like that
got a 1-year suspension
 
f
 
I think all teenagers talk like that
 
1:14 PM
well yknow what they say about repeating history
 
@mousetail I would say recusion with a small limit or no recursion
@Fatalize why
hmm
 
@mousetail I’m pretty sure most teenagers in the world don’t spend time on PPCG
 
@mousetail how might you achieve similar effects without recursion?
 
it's generally good chatiquette to not ask about suspensions and bans
 
@Fatalize I'm sure most teenagers in the world don't have access to PPCG
 
1:15 PM
@thejonymyster Looping
 
@NumberBasher well statistically yes
 
I mean CGCC, PPCG is the boomer anagram
 
@Fatalize I mean, why this, not why the other
 
@Fatalize There are at least 2, @NumberBasher and @zyabin
 
Pode Polf Cack Gxchange
 
1:16 PM
@Ginger Cack
 
@Ginger Considering how most people don't have access to internet
 
If I don't do recursiong I'm gonna treat functions like a preprocessor macro, just substitute them in
 
and how most people in china does not have a vpn, that's already about a half off
 
still, even teenagers who do have access to the internet don't come here (usually)
 
@Fatalize Why do I remind you of Zyabin?
@Ginger true
 
1:17 PM
@Ginger (except when they do and they outgolf us (scary))
 
I imagine most people would want to learn normal coding before torturing themselves with code golf
 
@thejonymyster did you mean: Radvylf?
 
@NumberBasher Just a feeling from your syntax and the way you insist on minor things
@mousetail Most people don’t give a damn about coding
 
IIRC radvylf is about 16 (don't quote me on that tho my memory is worse then a Dell Inspiron)
@Fatalize which is a shame
 
@Ginger This explains his terrible git habbits
 
1:19 PM
@Fatalize well you remind me of gregory berrycone
 
@mousetail no, we're all like that
 
@thejonymyster who the hell is that?
 
@mousetail about ¼-â…“ of the active members here are under 20 I think
 
Ok remind me not to hire any code golfers
 
1:20 PM
if under 20 is what you define as a teenager (age ending in -teen)
(and >=13 but that's a given, by site policy)
 
@pxeger there's prob. someone breakin it
 
@Ginger I've seen worse
 
so this site is mostly teenagers
 
1:21 PM
Now I feel old
 
BTW, is the reference quite too long
 
@mousetail ad`am laughing in apl
 
there are three sure things in a coder's life: death, taxes, and regular expressions
 
Ok but honestly Adam's strategy seems unwise
 
@thejonymyster can’t find anyone willing to learn APL in the real world, so he has to come here to fish for our poor souls
 
1:22 PM
amen
 
^
 
@Fatalize Extremely desperate then
 
this place is basically Nerd Hangout Inc, it's a smart move lol
 
@mousetail Not really though, loads of people here are master/phd level computer scientists/developers who are obviously passionnate about those kinds of things
 
@Ginger so fricking true
 
one of the highest concentrations of smart programmers on the internet, right here
 
5 mins ago, by Fatalize
@mousetail Most people don’t give a damn about coding
 
We had a discussion somewhat recently about how many users here have PhDs
go and look that up if you want
 
where
 
shoulda made it a convo
 
1:24 PM
@thejonymyster In the real world. CCGC is very very small bubble
 
I mean you all are extremely smart for sure but also teaching yourself (ourselves) bad habbits
 
@pxeger I have one, but full disclaimer: no I don’t wan’t to learn APL
 
hard to learn bad habits when all of your habits are bad already
 
sometimes i program well when i am not golfing
 
@Ginger just learn more
@thejonymyster sometimes i golf when i dont mean to
 
1:26 PM
look man my documents folder (where all my code and stuff is) is quite literally 48 GB in size
 
That's not actually very much, mine is much more but that since it has a lot of images and node_modules etc.
 
^^ most nerdy UI look ever, yet you don’t use the console to get that info?
 
well bear in mind I'm typing these words on a Raspberry Pi 4 8GB
running Raspberry Pi OS
and also why console when that works fine
oh good lord I just noticed that it says I have 212,680 files in there
@Fatalize wait what's so nerdy about it lol
 
@Ginger it screams "Linux" in my face
 
imagine using windows lol
 
1:31 PM
I use windows only for gaming
linux for everything else
 
^^ ^
 
imagine using a computer
 
@Fatalize bro what are you using to talk to us? the power of your mind??
 
@Ginger exactly
 
@Ginger he uses butterflies to cause cosmic rays to cause bitflips in the SE server
3
 
1:33 PM
I see
CMQ: Do yall prefer having icons on buttons and in menus or not?
 
yes
 
like next to the text
I turned that on because it's not enabled by default on RPiOS
 
@NumberBasher The link to this in your SE profile is broken because of two !!
 
Oh, I'll fix that
 
1:34 PM
cool fact: when the name of a pinned tab changes, Firefox will add a little grey dot under it
 
Medium pays me 5-30 cents every month for a article I wrote 2 years ago
 
I'm pretty sure that was added specifically for the purpose of chat applications
@mousetail todo: get article in medium, receive cash money
 
It's more difficult now
 
oh hey adam
 
You need like 100 followers to join the program
It used to be easier
I still don't have 100 followers since the one article I wrote was total bullshit
 
1:36 PM
@mousetail which, hmm
@mousetail i have 100 followers, but apparently there's a list of countries and china isn't in it so frick
 
I have a migraine headache so I'm going to go log off for a bit and look at something that isn't a screen, be right back
 
@mousetail You can use a bit of follow 4 follow if you need money. But like, 5-30 cents every month "isn't a lot"
@Ginger look at your keyboard LOL
 
How do you have 100 followers wtf
 
follow 4 follow
 
@NumberBasher Yep exactly I immediately realized I might as well work at McDonalds
 
1:38 PM
A really shitty way to get 100 followers, but works
@mousetail true
but takes time and effort LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
gotta go for now!, just @ me for replies
 
or you can put time and effort into CGCC for 0 cent per month
 
@mousetail wait, if you write an article somewhere you can still be getting paid for it?
ummmmm let me brush up on my writing then.................!!!
 
@thejonymyster Yep, it's like being a youtuber or influencer though, top 0.01% get 99.9% of the money
rest gets a few cents if lucky
 
drat
well its better than spotify where youre paying to be there :P
 
True
write articles while listening to spotify to balance it out
 
1:45 PM
@emanresuA Winning criterion falls under "obvious stuff" for an answer chaining to me
 
LDQ:
preface: i already know im doing this bad
question: for infix, which order should unary / binary operators priority?
example: U is a unary operator, B is a binary operator
U0B1 = B(U(0),1) or U(B(0,1))
idk how to ask this not as a list
 
Or, at the very least, it's not something I'm looking for feedback on, as it's almost always going to be "When no answers have been posted after X time, the second to last answer wins"
 
or wait i guess some unary operators could have higher priority than binaries and some lower
 
@thejonymyster That's how it works in practlangs
 
right yea
doh
im just like, at the stage where i can just barely not test my lang working since i have to decide small stuff like that lol
antsy cause i havent made anything functional(working) in a while :P dont wanna implement anything super complicated
 
2:19 PM
-5
Q: check our Webpage

Eren Eagerwe Launched our new landing page Prompt attestation but we want to add Lottie animation on our main page prompt Attestation we tried but Lottie is asking about their location is there any possibility to add their js to our domain and play, we don't know the process can anyone explain the process ...

 
@NewPosts -10 in 7 minutes wow
 
BREAKING NEWS: There is a phishing attack against PyPI users in progress right now. Please be on the lookout for any suspicious emails from "PyPI" if you have packages on pypi.org.
 
@mousetail looks like spam imo
 
@lyxal Yea I flagged it as spam
 
in fact, none of them are mutually exclusive :P
 
2:23 PM
@thejonymyster Could be interesting. Animate a hello world rotating in every succesive answer
Though it would require restricted-source too I guess
 
Each successive call of the answer rotates hello world one degree
and the program needs to work when rotated too
 
Hmmm yes but how would the work then?
 
@thejonymyster and don't exactly go together
9 VPNs moved to Off-Topic TNB
 
@lyxal What? why not?
code-challenge is way too broad to be saying something like that
i can understand something like not making a good answer chain
 
@thejonymyster two winning criteria at once
 
2:33 PM
@lyxal answer chaining isnt a winning criterion
 
It can be, but yeah it doesn't need to be
 
ninja'd
9
A: Is [answer-chaining] a self-contained winning criteria tag?

Nathan MerrillIt depends: If the answer-chaining question is : Scored based off of the chain, then the tag is self-contained. For example, scoring by the last answer (or second to last answer). Scored based off of something else, and the chain is a restriction, then the tag is not self-contained. Programm...

TIL it isn't necessarily self contained
 
ah but i didnt realize it could be used by itself if the chain was the winning criterion lol
TIL it can be self contained
 
3:10 PM
I've posted a challenge before, so you can definitely have a winning criteria tag with
 
that one sprung to mind yea lol
that challenge is wild
 
3:33 PM
@RadvylfPrograms what game?
 
Amidst, a (planned, but never implemented) text-based multiplayer game
 
3:47 PM
@thejonymyster this
@RadvylfPrograms noice
whats it about
 
It's a sandbox RPG survival sort of thing
Like Minecraft but text based
 
nice
 
@thejonymyster Indeed
 
@thejonymyster note that if your unary operator is lower priority than your binary operator then 0BU1 becomes a syntax error
 
@Neil it wouldnt actually, in my case
i still dont see how that would be a syntax error in any system that put nonzero thought into parsing :P
 
3:58 PM
@thejonymyster but then you start getting weirdness happening with 0BU1B2
 
how so
 
@thejonymyster in python, 0 * not 1 is a syntax error
 
yeah but like... why
 
not has higher precedence than * on both sides
 
4:00 PM
Is higher looser or tighter
 
just say it with parentheses lol
 
Can't remember
I meant looser
 
so its trying to do not(0 *, 1) ?
like "Whats this junk behind not"?
 
0 * not 1 is 0 * (not 1), 0 * not 1 * 2 is 0 * not (1 * 2). I don't see any ambiguity.
 
@thejonymyster because if you tried to do a * not b * not c, you'd get a * (not (b * (not c))), when you might have expected a * ((not b) * (not c))
 
4:01 PM
sure but why is there an error?
 
Well you "might expect" a lot of things that aren't true
 
Python has a lot of anti-footgun things like that
 
thats dumb
well i mean its not but like
im not doing that so no error
 
Practical languages: "It looks like you're about to shoot yourself in the foot. You should probably reconsider." Golfing languages: "Foot-shooting goes brrrr"
 
Well I mean, stack-based and tacit are 110% more elegant than precedence
 
4:05 PM
not is a unary operator which can only have a comparison (because comparisons are the next tightest binding operators) after it
 
It's hard to have footguns with parsing when you have nice, consistent, elegant parsing rules
 
@pxeger nah I can't be bothered to explain it, just go read the grammar
 
@RadvylfPrograms Also 110% less human-readable, at least till you get used to it.
 
Until you get used to it, yeah. If we'd been using stack-based/tacit from the start it would be so much nicer.
 
the upside as well as the downside of precedence is it kind of encodes common use cases
 
4:15 PM
I do have a soft spot in my heart for stack-based. My second (?) programming language was RPL on an old HP calculator.
 
Stack-based can get hard to keep track of when the stack is large, but proper spacing or even parenthetization would make it easier to work with
 
so it's usually more elegant than alternatives when it makes sense, at the expense of being utterly inscrutable when it doesn't
 
^
 
@DLosc C: "why the foot? shoot yourself in the head"
@RadvylfPrograms tbh you just need to keep in mind the top ~3-4 values in any single section
 
4:43 PM
@Seggan LOL
 
4:53 PM
LDQ: Higher-dimensional arrays: useful in a golflang, or just stick with nested lists?
 
@DLosc what's the difference?
 
@DLosc i feel like the winning plan is to be prepared to treat ragged nested lists as multidimensional arrays
 
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