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3:00 PM
I use vscode too
that was posted before the edit
but won't the backend and frontend files be in the same folder?
ye but they can be in diff subfolders
hmm yeah okay
in fact, they have to be in diff subfolders for functions to recognize it as the backend
3:01 PM
@mathcat If you're working on two entirely different projects
@Seggan Normal sites would also put them in different subfolders
okay yes
@lyxal brb making 2048 in QBasic /hj
Seriously, tho, nice job
@emanresuA Techniques for taking an array in Pip: 1) use g if possible; 2) write a function instead of a full program; 3) use the -x flag, which evaluates all args.
3:21 PM
lang dev question: how much work can you make the empty program do :P
do everything that is implicitly done at the start (of a nonempty program) then do everything that is implicitly done at the end (of a nonempty program)
in vyxal, that means output the input
@thejonymyster I think it's reasonable for the empty program to be a cat program (as in a number of golflangs). If you want to do something unreasonable, that's up to you.
fair enough :P
3:24 PM
empty programs print a link to the lang's github
that kind of rules
my first thought was "if program is empty, evaluate the input as code"
sorry i replaced the replace with the word i wanted to word
you seem to be on the starboard a lot
i tell too many jokes
are you a mushroom by any chance? because this chatroom seems to think you're a fun guy
@thejonymyster the result of this would be usually to just cat input, but depending on the language's functionality, you might be able to get some interesting but still /reasonable/ results with fairly reasonable input :]
3:29 PM
aw darn I just finished my regex that matches both fungi and fun guy: fun[g ][gi](uy)?
@thejonymyster all of it
like... would it be entirely unreasonable to say "take input as a string of numbers delimited by plus signs" and then submit the empty program :P
@Ginger fun(gi| guy) is shorter :p
@Ginger fun(gi)|( guy)
but it's also less complex and I can't be having that
3:30 PM
And yours also matches fungguy, fun i, fun iuy, and fun g
oof beat me to it
this is a Ginger Industries regex, obviously it must be overcomplicated and not work correctly
@Seggan That doesn't actually work lol
wait wat?
You got the order of operations of | wrong
That's the same as fungi| guy
3:31 PM
/fun ?gi?u?y?/
looks confused
@RadvylfPrograms ah
me: tries to delete a room
server: deletion failed: this room doesn't exist
me: *reload*
server: 404
me: ...well, yes
[f]?[u]?[n]?[g ]?[ig]?[u]?[y]? for maximum compressability
@Ginger did you put the room existence check before the deletion process :P
that is like putting the horse before the carriage :P
no, I'm not stupid
(looks back at start of day)
3:34 PM
@thejonymyster im totally doing this btw (once the lang is complete)
@RadvylfPrograms Attempt This Online!
jesus christ why are there so many rooms
@DLosc "heh... well, some people like to say im a... f iuy :P"
@DLosc now i gotta use this in at least one challenge
i just had an idea for one if it hasnt been done already
shortest program with infinite output: *
(just an asterisk)
3:38 PM
Yep, that works (given the -a flag)
oh yea i was just using the same flag
i havent checked if its been submitted
looks like it hasnt plus we allow dupes sooo gfdsg
just gonna submit that rq
lyxal just got FLOODED with notifications
how you know
did you just spam pings in another room
@Ginger in lambda.chat?
I deleted a bunch of garbage rooms
and every time a room is deleted the owner is notified
@PyGamer0 yup
3:43 PM
did i format this answer correctly i havent posted an answer in another lang in so long im nervous HAHA
Huh... there's some broken markdown on the how-to-search page. Is that something StackExchange has to fix?
@thejonymyster I'd put -a in the header instead of just a, but yeah, that looks good.
ty :)
The meta post has got 12 votes, what now?
Do I have to contact the OP?
3:59 PM
time to scour meta for posts about reposting
@mathcat relevant?
i dont recommend you sandbox it though, the 12 upvotes in meta should be enough feedback lol
or maybe do sandbox it
to make sure you phrase it well lol
@thejonymyster depends on my challenge-writing skills :P
so it doesnt end up at -45 again :P also yea i just off the bat assumed you were good
cmm: when is LDW going to be a thing?
seems you're not well either <: |
4:05 PM
Do sandbox it. The meta post is not a challenge spec; writing the actual spec is likely to introduce some typos and/or make people think of clarification questions.
@PyGamer0 Starting next week?
i keep thinking it's going to be on wednesday cause of the acronym
It is on Wednesdays, in the right timezone
4:09 PM
Is someone going to make it appear on the schedules tab?
Not yet since we don't know when it is
(or do we?)
i thought it was decided tuesday, same as lyal but offset by a week
or was it like
LYAL's on Wednesdays too, right?
uhh is it? jesus i dont know
In the LYAL timezone(TM)
I'll go ahead and murder BMG though
4:10 PM
oh are you shitposting? i genuinely cant remember
Radvylf Programs has removed an event from this room's schedule.
Radvylf Programs has removed an event from this room's schedule.
the beast is slain
22 secs ago, by Radvylf Programs
I'll go ahead and murder BMG though
imagine someone reading this not knowing what/who BMG is
he had it coming
4:12 PM
Yeah, June 22 is a Wednesday
All LYALs are on Wednesdays
LYAL starts on Tuesday night in the Western hemisphere and on Wednesday in the Eastern hemisphere
It's just because of the timezone, most people will have it start during their Tuesday
ahhhhhhh ok
So have we decided on the name of the event?
the issue was i genuinely didnt remember what day it was when i saw it start
LDW is kind of ideal, it just says what it is
nobody could be funny enough in time for it to be anything else
4:13 PM
@RadvylfPrograms I'd say yes
Well then
Radvylf Programs has added an event to this room's schedule.
i have registered :]
Language Design Workshop is now a thing, starting at 12:00 UTC on June 15th (6-10 AM on Wednesday for North America). Register now!
4:15 PM
speaking of,
@RadvylfPrograms But that's not morning in North America, is it?
@RadvylfPrograms yeah
if i do have a lang where the empty program interprets input as a program, what should i do if input is empty as well? :P
LYAL always starts the previous evening for me
4:16 PM
@DLosc Should be...in my timezone it's 7:00 AM
It's offset 12 hours from LYAL
@RadvylfPrograms you gonna do the announcement on meta or should i?
Oh, I can't read :P
I see 12:00 and I immediately think midnight
also, can we please rotate the times
i cant start it at 6 am
No, we tried that for BMG and it was too annoying
Who's going first?
4:17 PM
@Seggan It's okay if you can't be there right at the start. I won't be either.
@user nobody
No "going", everybody just posts stuff
It's not like LYAL where a single language is the focus
Oh, guess I misinterpreted LDW
1 min ago, by Seggan
@RadvylfPrograms you gonna do the announcement on meta or should i?
@Seggan You can
4:19 PM
just noticed my like... user thumbnail on the registration is big enough to show me self advertising, but not big enough to show the actual advert
I'm probably not going to sign up for the event because I don't need an event reminder at 4 in the morning, but I plan to participate whenever I'm here.
It also sends you an email iirc which is kinda annoying
It does? Not for me
idk I thought I got an email once
4:21 PM
I have no idea b/c if it does, it goes to a Gmail tab that I rarely look at :P
Might've been something else
I definitely get emails about it
I think I get emails about SE notifications in general, so I wouldn't be surprised
I'm probably hallucinating then
We should hire someone to be here during the event, and if anyone shows up who hasn't registered, they ping them with "you're not on the list" and kick-mute them
4:22 PM
I can do that d:
tbh I could make a bot to do that
breaking: ginger screws up and kickmutes every user in tnb
Whoa whoa whoa, why are you kickmuting my kind?
@RadvylfPrograms ΰ² _ΰ² 
everybody, this is the opposite of justice! let us rebel!
CMM: How does one write a good popcon?
read that as popcorn
4:34 PM
That is what autocorrect thought!
By writing a challenge that's really good without popcon, then adding the popcon tag
Usually you don't aim to write a popcon though, you just don't really have a better scoring criterion
Got it.
in Vyxal, 17 secs ago, by Vyxal Bot
@mathcat I am doing a law degree so I can convict Radvylf on crimes against programming languages.
@RadvylfPrograms watch out
@Seggan against what?
17 mins ago, by user
Whoa whoa whoa, why are you kickmuting my kind?
4:43 PM
bad idea
@mathcat careful, if you mess up bad enough, you may get convicted for crimes against law
Crimes against law? As opposed to crimes not against the law?
@user Yes, such as word crimes
@user Yes, such as those committed here :P
4:52 PM
That's hilarious
I'm sure you'd still need a really good lawyer to pull it off in reality
not to be on topic but im kind of obsessed with the idea of a lang designed to cheese challenges with the empty program XD
As in like, MetaGolfScript?
i think the "empty program means the input is the program" can work for a few challenges but im trying to think of syntax which would be allowed as standard i/o (this message wont send?)
Idea: Esolang, which only accepts correct grammar.
@thejonymyster Even if standard I/O allows it, you could still be violating the loophole about taking input that contains additional information
4:57 PM
@mathcat The grammar of English is practically undecidable
@RadvylfPrograms ah right OTL
dream dead, back to work
@pxeger Wat do u men?
^ correct grammar
That's clearly incorrect grammar, and this sentence that I'm writing now is clearly correct grammar. However, it is probably possible to construct a sentence where it would require solving the halting problem to determine whether it's correct or not
i think me and someone else had that idea but for law
5:00 PM
I thought we decided a long time ago there's no such thing
that is also a concern
can you present a case where you cant be guilty as itd solve the halting problem? :P
"Wat do u men" is correct grammar because I understand it
@pxeger hmm
5:00 PM
correct incorrect [x]
effective ineffective [:D]
@thejonymyster the problem is that, while an esolang interpreter may not be able to solve the halting problem, a jury of twelve intelligent humans probably could
Humans are just big computers, pretty easy to find a program where humans don't know how to decide if it halts
@RadvylfPrograms yay
@pxeger ah true
@pxeger AIs can solve the halting problem
5:02 PM
my other thought; is legalese turing complete?
wait no, that's not how that works :\
@pxeger it was also because no one was there to test the language which LDW should fix :P
@RadvylfPrograms but you'd have to know that no human can know whether it halts in order for it to be a safe legal defence, which is clearly impossible
E.g., n=0;while(1){if(disproves_collatz(n))break;}
i was conflating programming languages with formal languages nvm
Oh wait I didn't read thejonymyster's original message
5:04 PM
i never send originam messages
@pxeger I think they mean the halting problem in general, not for a specific program
@thejonymyster that's probably an original message, actually
@pxeger i dont know what youre (aincient power grenade) talking about
probably, nobody has ever made the exact typo "originam" in that exact context before
> At least one of these tags is required - 'bug feature-request discussion support'.
which one
5:04 PM
Q: Chat Event Announcment: Language Development Workshop

SegganBMG has died. Nearly immediately I proposed the event that henceforth became known as MYAL. After a short discussion to flesh out the details, and the chat event Language Development Workshop was born. Here, we will get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, ...

I guess we don't need to pin it, since your announcement message is already there @RadvylfPrograms
oh dang @Rad pings Radvylf
cool lol
@hyper-neutrino Could you 11 the link to that post into the first link in the pinned message, and make "Register now!" link to the schedule?
5:06 PM
yeah, you only need the first 3 characters (if it's unambiguous) of the username
It can be ambiguous too, right?
It'll just ping everyone with those letters
I don't know
@PyGamer0 Yeah I'm just really cool
frick I'm not matpat
I don't think you can ping yourself
5:07 PM
Let's do this in the snadbox
if you're going to keep testing this, go to the sandbox
I love that the sandbox's room ID is 1, because I can type its URL from memory :þ
@RadvylfPrograms did I do it right
@pxeger "intelligent" that's a bold assumption d:
q: is an underrated emoticon
5:11 PM
Meh, it's just :p or d: flipped
:b is also underrated actually
:q is what I think is underrated
tfw you're so sad you invert your tongue and lick your eyeballs
Y'all sticking your tongues out with no consequences. Some :q's are what you need
5:13 PM
@RadvylfPrograms i love dont like how you just decide to start LDW without asking anyone else
I wasn't going to mention that, but now that you have, I'd like to say that I don't particularly love that
Answers to codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/q/24835 were still being voted on, the most recent having only 3, 6, and 5 votes
this ^
"love" was sarcastic
1 hour ago, by Radvylf Programs
So have we decided on the name of the event?
It wasn't entirely "without asking anyone else", but the time certainly wasn't consulted on
5:22 PM
how is my challenge now. virtually nothing is unchanged from last night, except not requiring crlf, but I didn't get a lot of response. codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/24852/104373
much better than last time
also, is reopening rooms after being archived for inactivity possible
pretty sure you just need to get a mod/RO of that room to do it
Java 19 looks like its getting a lot of features
a few from earlier releases
the new ones include virtual threads, structured concurrency, and record pattern matching/deconstruction
@des54321 AFAICT ROs can't unfreeze rooms. I'm sure mods can though
5:30 PM
static void printColorOfUpperLeftPoint(Rectangle r) {
    if (r instanceof Rectangle(ColoredPoint(Point p, Color c),
                               ColoredPoint lr)) {
that from the JEP looks awesome ^
5:44 PM
Feedback for the KOTH / controller script?
@Seggan What? I asked about all the details and confirmed we were starting it before I did anything
2 hours ago, by Radvylf Programs
Not yet since we don't know when it is
2 hours ago, by Radvylf Programs
So have we decided on the name of the event?
2 hours ago, by mathcat
@RadvylfPrograms I'd say yes
only one opinion was offered:
2 hours ago, by thejonymyster
i thought it was decided tuesday, same as lyal but offset by a week
not much of an agreement
but it's not exactly the end of the world, we can just change it in the future
It had been discussed other times too IIRC
And since it was specifically to replace BMG, why would it be any other time?
because it's 24 times longer (or 36 times longer, or whatever, depending on what we would have agreed on)
LYAL's also 24 hours
So we have precedent for dealing with that
5:53 PM
well I'm mainly thinking of my suggestion which hasn't been discussed yet and has only had 4 gross votes
Tbh I didn't really intend on "starting" anything, I removed BMG from the schedule since we were already sure we were going to do the event, then since at least at the time I thought the name and time were pretty uncontested (and I made sure to confirm both, but I guess I didn't wait long enough), I figured we could go ahead and add it to the schedule since that's the only two things it depends on.
And I thought we'd decided after BMG not to do rotating start times, since we've already had to do big scheduling changes in the past when we switched from three to two start times for BMG
And it's even less important with a 24-hour event
I just got choose-a-room-to-move-to jumpscared again and almost moved that to Sci-Fi's main room :|
"The guy who keeps invading other sites' main rooms" is a title I'd rather not award myself lol
CMC: take a list of n (where n is odd) integers and reverse it but only for every other item. e.g. [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]=>[1,8,3,6,5,4,7,2,9]; [11,42,33,24,55]=>[11,24,33,42,55]
6:10 PM
Hey wait that only works for even-n lists :|
wow i dont understand that
It's cool, it reverses every suffix of the list
E.g., start by flipping every item except the first one, then every item except the first two, and so on
But with odd lists it apparently doesn't work
lol trolled :P
obviously that was intentional, definitely
I think ive got the start of something fun in pip, gimme a sec
@thejonymyster Ugly Python, 42 bytes: lambda a:sum(zip(a[-2::-2],a[2::2]),a[:1])
6:19 PM
ooh i like it
@thejonymyster not optimally golfed i think: Pip, 16 bytes: (UWg0)WVRV(UWg1)
I think only game 2 of the money series will work as a KOTH :/
Which is that?
If it's the smallest unique number one, we already have that
And it's possibly my favorite dupe target on the site
@RadvylfPrograms oh okay
I think game 3 might work too
@RadvylfPrograms *makes a room called "other sites' main rooms"*
6:30 PM
@mathcat the one with the hundred dollars in the box and stuff
Yeah I think it could work
It doesn't have any randomness + with many bots it'll probably be intresting
do we have a challenge where you do what this challenge's title says you have to do :\
i.e. that but actually a decision problem
@des54321 if i change which "every other item" it flips i can get 15 bytes: R(UWg0)WV(UWg1)
@thejonymyster Jelly, 3 bytes: UÐe (Try It Online!)
the way Jelly's "apply at indices" quick works, which is normally a bit weird at times, is actually perfect here lol
6:46 PM
@des54321 interesting :0c
@hyper-neutrino this solution actually only works for odd n lol
@thejonymyster I save a byte there because I can use the 1-byter for reverse (R) instead of the two-byter RV, if i tried to use R in the 16-byte version the central bit would get parsed as W VR instead
@hyper-neutrino tbf, the problem wouldnt really make sense for even n
@thejonymyster Vyxal, 3 bytes: yṘY (Try it Online!)
@thejonymyster it does, 1 2 3 4 5 61 6 3 4 5 2
6:49 PM
why didnt you move 4?
@mathcat more like yṘY it online lol
yeah I forgot to remove the R
oh i was just making a joke about hte name being similar to the code
@hyper-neutrino this doesnt fit the definition of the problem, it's close though
though i kind of glossed over definitions :P
apl 10 bytes: ⌽@(~2|β³βˆ˜β‰’) Try it online!
glorious glorious underspecified cmc
also nice i was hoping id see apl
@thejonymyster because when you reverse an odd-length list the middle element doesn't move lol
6:55 PM
@hyper-neutrino 1 2 3 4 5 6 is an even length list :P
yes but the sublist 2 4 6 isn't :P
i did not consider this interpretation :o i am learning
knew my pip solution wasnt optimal, heres 12 bytes: {aWVRVb}VUWg
and 11 byter where the other sublist is flipped: {RaWVb}VUWg
7:09 PM
@des54321 Oh, very nice! I had 13: R:(UW:g1);WVg
@att 7: ⌽@(=\=) Try it online!
@des54321 This one can also be 11 bytes by using a lambda expression and flipping the operands of V: UWgV_WVRV B
what is the jelly atom for split x at occurrence of y
@DLosc oh thats smart! I confess i still dont fully understand the whole lambda thing in pip but i think i understand it better with this now
73 bytes of haskell.
Very new to haskell golf.
7:23 PM
69 bytes (nice) just by removing some whitespace: [`b(x:z)y=x:b y z
b _ _=[]
f l=b(filter odd l)(reverse (filter even l))`](https://ato.pxeger.com/run?1=m708I7E4OzUnZ8GCpaUlaboWN12TNCqsqjQrbSuskhQqFaq4khTiFeJto2O50hRybJM00jJzSlKLFPJTUhRyNDWKUstSi4pTFWDCQG4eUFwTaphKbmJmnoKtQkFRZl4JUJFCtKGOkY6xjomOqY6ZjrmOhY5lLFQtzAEA)
ooooh code formatting is happy there
@des54321 One nice thing about modern Pip is you can just output a lambda expression, which may help you get a feel for how they correspond to full function syntax.
@DLosc oh thats very neat
sudo what is the jelly atom for split x at occurrence of y
You found atoms?
7:27 PM
@des54321 a few further minor improvements: redefining b as a binary infix operator %, and exploiting the fact that (x:z) fails to match only if it's [], which saves a byte:
@23TuringMachine also problem with this is it separates odd and even integers, not every other value of the list
im just trying to get a grasp on haskell myself, im gonna take my own crack at coming up with a solution for this in haskell
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

mathcatThe Magic Money Machine This KOTH is based on a game of Tom Scott's series Money, so make sure to check out his video Challenge There are three rounds per game. Each bot will get 100$. They'll have to decide how much money they'll keep for themselves, and how much they're going to put in the Mag...

^ this time I'll wait for feedback first before coding the controller
7:29 PM
didn't you already post that?
It's another one
I deleted the old one
I don't think there's an "apply at indices" in BQN, which is making this hard
@DLosc not even interleave/uninterleave?
Don't think so? But I'm still learning.
7:49 PM
@AdΓ‘m so monadic = zeroes an array?
@att No, it compares to 0, which would then fail if there are any zeros. However, you could use monadic ⍷ instead, which is the same as {βŽ•ML←0 β‹„ ∊⍡} i.e. type, and while all elements are numbers, you get all zeros.
@DLosc The corresponding thing is under select.
Ooh, I've never used under before :D
fiddling around with haskell to try to learn it/figure out a solution to this, why is this not outputting [[1,3,5,7],[2,4,6,8]]
I see
@des54321 and this outputs what it should, why does putting the transpose inside the function change things?
7:58 PM
@des54321 Presumably because you don't actually want to transpose each intermediate result, you just need to transpose once at the end
would "takes input as a roman numeral" be reasonable input format on a challenge not about roman numerals
@DLosc oooooh of course, because transpose is happening in the recursive calls facepalm
@thejonymyster I'd say only if you're using a language that normally takes input as Roman numerals (maybe Intercal?)
im more interested in what possible situation you are in where taking input as roman numerals would help

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