@GratefulDisciple Interesting - thanks for this!

@GratefulDisciple One thing I will say re BU identity, is many consider themselves to be carrying on the Reformation proper, whether Protestant or not. Dale Tuggy (BU) says as much at the start of this talk. youtube.com/watch?v=nb4TogqyTrw&feature=youtu.be Indeed, many BUs might not really care about the term 'Protestant'. I don't, and rather hold to Christian, while appreciating elements of Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Mormon (!) churches. But ...

@GratefulDisciple I think some Protestants don't want to say BUs are Protestant in the way they don't want to say Mormons are Christians. It is an attempt to exclude certain groups from having a kind of legitimacy. This is a bit juvenile, IMO.

@OneGodtheFather Yes, I now see labels such as "Christian", "Protestant", and "Evangelical" serve mostly sociological function to demarcate identity. Even evangelical Roger Olson thinks that the Chicago statement of "inerrancy" is also sociological. Of course, to the "ingroup" the label is associated with the ingroup's theological definition.

I remember one church historian says that within a particular religion, demarcation war between the religion's schools of thoughts is a lot fiercer compared to demarcation war with other religions. I think this is perfectly normal sociological process that transcends religious groups. We see it in politics too, within the Democratic party or within the Republican party.

A Biblical example is when Paul cunningly used the intra-Jewish debate between the Pharisees and the Sadducees on the resurrection of the dead (Acts 23:6-10).

A sad example is of course the European wars of religion which ended with the Thirty Years' War in the critical European history milestone: year 1648, the Peace of Westphalia.

Another sad example is of course the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, which is mainly an ethnic war, but tinted with the Russian Orthodox Church's not recognizing the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

I have been studying the processes that the Catholic church uses to demarcate her identity from Protestants, whom she now calls "ecclesial community". The tool is access to Eucharist. Catholics are forbidden to participate in a Protestant church's communion, and Protestants who have not been received into the Catholic church sacramentally (and in good standing, after confessing mortal sins), cannot receive communion either.

@GratefulDisciple Yes, that's right. Part of the debate over receiving communion is about who gets to identify as Catholic. It's an important sociological function, of course. You can't have people running around saying whatever they want and still have a coherent group. ...

@GratefulDisciple Actually, the reasons given by the Catholic church that Catholics can't receive Protestant communion is the basis of a good SE question. Because my identity is primarily Christian, I believe all Christians are 'in communion' and hence can all receive communion from whichever church.

@GratefulDisciple Interestingly, “If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed” (CIC 844 § 4)

@OneGodtheFather Like you, my Protestant wife also has very strong conviction of what's technically called Open communion. But as I study Catholic theology more, I actually support the Catholic church's position on closed communion, because of the deep sacramental notion of the Catholic church.

@GratefulDisciple Yes, and perhaps our difference on open-closed communion also relates to the degree of skepticism we have re Catholic theology getting everything right.

@OneGodtheFather Yes. Similarly, soldiers in battle who are about to die, can enlist fellow soldiers to become priests to absolve their last confession. So do any Catholics are empowered to perform baptism for the dying. I think this is done to preserve grace while protecting boundary.

@OneGodtheFather My personal position re Catholic theology, is that they themselves don't have 100% certainty, but something should be provisionally absolute as much as humanly possible. So I agree that the Magisterium can change their mind over time. This is not contradictory, but reflects thoughtful adaptation to modern circumstances.

@GratefulDisciple Interesting.

I read somewhere that while the conscience of an individual is primary for that individual, a Catholic should at least bring the Magisterium on his side to contribute, as partner in discernment. I heard that Cardinal Newman said a lot about this. So it's not about slavish obedience, but valuing the collective discernment, especially when Jesus himself promised Holy Spirit guidance on that institution.

When I'm less busy and can find a good article about it, I'll share it in this room.

For now, I have to go back to work. TTYL.

@OneGodtheFather That is a good question, you should ask it.

I'm still working on answering your other question on the magisterium btw

@SupportiveDante Ya, might have time to whip up a question related to that. It's an interesting area.

I have to prep for a study group tonight so I probably won't get around to posting an answer till tomorrow though